They're not going to outright ban those Champs from War. They're also not going to nerf them. So here we are.
Do you think those are the only two options?
No, but Kabam has made a very clear statement. Those mechanics are not intended to be used on Boss Island. The idea that stopping other Champs with those Abilities is somehow an unforeseen side effect is moot.
No, they didn’t make that clear statement. We have seen written proof that they didn’t. You’re spreading misinformation.
When you read their statement, which did you read “there are a couple abilities playing by different rules”
Or “there are a couple champions playing by different rules”
Their statement came from adding the Node. Quite literally it stops those Abilities. You can argue ad nauseum that it was only about those two Champs because the Announcement mentioned it, but it's painfully obvious they're not going to narrow it that much.
No, they added the node because of their design intent. Which was to stop quake and ghost running riot.
You don’t know that they won’t narrow it down that much, that is literally the point of all our feedback that you seem so desperate to stamp out. And why do you think it would be such a bad thing to narrow it down? How could more champions to use and more fun to be had ever be a bad thing?
When people keep depending on the same Abilities over and over, it's a bad thing. There's more than button-mashing skill to the game. Having a diverse Roster and accommodating to whatever change comes is part of it as well. Can't always Miss or Evade through the Damage.
They're not going to outright ban those Champs from War. They're also not going to nerf them. So here we are.
Do you think those are the only two options?
No, but Kabam has made a very clear statement. Those mechanics are not intended to be used on Boss Island. The idea that stopping other Champs with those Abilities is somehow an unforeseen side effect is moot.
No, they didn’t make that clear statement. We have seen written proof that they didn’t. You’re spreading misinformation.
When you read their statement, which did you read “there are a couple abilities playing by different rules”
Or “there are a couple champions playing by different rules”
Their statement came from adding the Node. Quite literally it stops those Abilities. You can argue ad nauseum that it was only about those two Champs because the Announcement mentioned it, but it's painfully obvious they're not going to narrow it that much.
No, they added the node because of their design intent. Which was to stop quake and ghost running riot.
You don’t know that they won’t narrow it down that much, that is literally the point of all our feedback that you seem so desperate to stamp out. And why do you think it would be such a bad thing to narrow it down? How could more champions to use and more fun to be had ever be a bad thing?
When people keep depending on the same Abilities over and over, it's a bad thing. There's more than button-mashing skill to the game. Having a diverse Roster and accommodating to whatever change comes is part of it as well. Can't always Miss or Evade through the Damage.
Which did it say on the announcement. Abilities that play by different rules? Or champions that play by different rules?
They're not going to outright ban those Champs from War. They're also not going to nerf them. So here we are.
Do you think those are the only two options?
No, but Kabam has made a very clear statement. Those mechanics are not intended to be used on Boss Island. The idea that stopping other Champs with those Abilities is somehow an unforeseen side effect is moot.
No, they didn’t make that clear statement. We have seen written proof that they didn’t. You’re spreading misinformation.
When you read their statement, which did you read “there are a couple abilities playing by different rules”
Or “there are a couple champions playing by different rules”
Their statement came from adding the Node. Quite literally it stops those Abilities. You can argue ad nauseum that it was only about those two Champs because the Announcement mentioned it, but it's painfully obvious they're not going to narrow it that much.
No, they added the node because of their design intent. Which was to stop quake and ghost running riot.
You don’t know that they won’t narrow it down that much, that is literally the point of all our feedback that you seem so desperate to stamp out. And why do you think it would be such a bad thing to narrow it down? How could more champions to use and more fun to be had ever be a bad thing?
When people keep depending on the same Abilities over and over, it's a bad thing. There's more than button-mashing skill to the game. Having a diverse Roster and accommodating to whatever change comes is part of it as well. Can't always Miss or Evade through the Damage.
It's always 1 step forward 2 backwards
We've already established miss/evade as abilities aren't inherently problematic and don't need to be shut down on everyone
It's champs like quake who reduces ability accuracy by 100% in addition to being enabled to do damage with 0 contact through guaranteed evades and ghost who shrugs off debuff with phase and completely ignores damage while phased in addition to the all the other overloaded parts of her kit that cause problems.
The broken aspects of their kits are enabled by miss/evade but miss/evade aren't broken abilities that need to be shut down for all characters.
If that were the case we wouldn't be getting a new miss champ that literally counters miss counters.
No he can’t lol, haven’t you argued with GW before
Yes but call me an optimist, I’ll still give him the benefit of the doubt with these conversations. I still take what he says at face value and try and hold a conversation.
I don’t believe he’s a troll, just stubbornly set in his ways, I want to have that conversation with him and try and get him to see our side. To show him that his points don’t sometimes have logic to them, and that it’s genuinely not the worst thing in the world to admit you’re wrong about something.
Even if he won’t extend the same courtesy, I’d answer his questions and points if he asked them.
They're not going to outright ban those Champs from War. They're also not going to nerf them. So here we are.
Do you think those are the only two options?
No, but Kabam has made a very clear statement. Those mechanics are not intended to be used on Boss Island. The idea that stopping other Champs with those Abilities is somehow an unforeseen side effect is moot.
No, they didn’t make that clear statement. We have seen written proof that they didn’t. You’re spreading misinformation.
When you read their statement, which did you read “there are a couple abilities playing by different rules”
Or “there are a couple champions playing by different rules”
Their statement came from adding the Node. Quite literally it stops those Abilities. You can argue ad nauseum that it was only about those two Champs because the Announcement mentioned it, but it's painfully obvious they're not going to narrow it that much.
No, they added the node because of their design intent. Which was to stop quake and ghost running riot.
You don’t know that they won’t narrow it down that much, that is literally the point of all our feedback that you seem so desperate to stamp out. And why do you think it would be such a bad thing to narrow it down? How could more champions to use and more fun to be had ever be a bad thing?
When people keep depending on the same Abilities over and over, it's a bad thing. There's more than button-mashing skill to the game. Having a diverse Roster and accommodating to whatever change comes is part of it as well. Can't always Miss or Evade through the Damage.
It's always 1 step forward 2 backwards
We've already established miss/evade as abilities aren't inherently problematic and don't need to be shut down on everyone
It's champs like quake who reduces ability accuracy by 100% in addition to being enabled to do damage with 0 contact through guaranteed evades and ghost who shrugs off debuff with phase and completely ignores damage while phased in addition to the all the other overloaded parts of her kit that cause problems.
The broken aspects of their kits are enabled by miss/evade but miss/evade aren't broken abilities that need to be shut down for all characters.
If that were the case we wouldn't be getting a new miss champ that literally counters miss counters.
Exactly Kabam could have made a node that was “this defender ignores guaranteed critical hits and is immune to ability accuracy reduction and direct damage only does 10% damage” to counter ghost and quake. It wasn’t specifically Miss and evade which was overpowered
But we would have Corvus and falcon fans rightly being annoyed. It’s an equally inelegant solution.
Yes. Those were my words. So if a Node is added that counters Champs which optimize those so heavily that it inhibits any type of Defense that puts up a fight, and people are still scrambling for those Abilities in other Champs, what would you call it? I call it depending on those to their own detriment because they're unwilling to look to other options.
Yes. Those were my words. So if a Node is added that counters Champs which optimize those so heavily that it inhibits any type of Defense that puts up a fight, and people are still scrambling for those Abilities in other Champs, what would you call it? I call it depending on those to their own detriment because they're unwilling to look to other options.
Here’s my final input on this topic. I’ve put a lot of thought into this and would really appreciate it if you took the time to think about the words instead of just jumping to a response as quick as you can.
The reason I disagree with this and all of your points, is because people do not use Ghost simply because she misses. Otherwise they would use Hood equally as much.
People do not use quake purely because she evades, or they would use miles and mr negative equally as much.
What you’re doing is creating a false equivalency between what was countered by the node, and what was the over powered aspect of ghost and quake.
Miss and evade are not the overpowered aspect, they are what Kabam have chosen to counter to thereby counter Ghost and quake. Please stop pretending that you know better than what Kabam are literally telling you.
We know this, because they said so. And every second you deny that design philosophy paints you back into a corner a little bit more
People are dependent on ghost and quake, I absolutely agree. They shouldn’t use them to the extent they’ve been trampling war. But seriously, stop saying you know better than Kabam’s self admitted design to counter quake and ghost, by pretending that people are unwilling to turn to other options.
People ARE turning to other options, Mr Negative, Elsa, tigra, prof X, stryfe to name a few. But Kabam have countered them, while countering ghost and quake. That is bad design philosophy, there is no reason that you or Kabam have given that could stop them only countering ghost or quake with the #overpowered tag idea. All you have said is “they wouldn’t do that” as if you know the workings of Kabam.
You have no reason why that would be a bad thing except “just use other champions”. Which is similar to the just use 3* argument, and the git gud argument some use. It doesn’t address the issue. Use other champs than ghost and quake sure, that’s fine, they’re overpowered. Other champions aren’t.
So please, just please. Read this, and genuinely take it in. Because I don’t think you actually read other peoples points, I read yours, and respond accordingly. You don’t extend others that same respect. Part of debate is listening, please accept that.
I’d really rather you didn’t respond to this, picking out one tiny part of it and responding to that. Just take it in, and think about what could the worst thing in the world be if Kabam let people use champions that weren’t overpowered. Does it really affect your life in such a great way that you need to argue against people using the champions they enjoy, that aren’t overpowered? Why do you need to feel like you have to put people down for wanting to enjoy a game in a reasonable way? I’ve never meant this more, but please, let people enjoy things.
I read your responses. I'm not engaging in certain forms of debate. I can tell when I'm being tested or baited into a response that will be dissected for the sake of it. This isn't my first time here. You don't need me to explain why targeting 2 specific Champs in a more direct way would be a calamity. That much is obvious. Those of us that have lived through 12.0 know what that causes. For that matter, they also flat-out said they don't want to prevent people from using those Champs altogether. Which you fail to hone in on. You cannot outright label Champs #overpowered, or directly inhibit them from being used. It goes against a number of goals for War. Yes, Kabam have countered their Abilities. Not the Champs themselves. More specifically, at one area of the Map. Interesting how you mention that people use those Champs for other reasons, and in the same thought react as if the Node stops people from using the other Champs altogether. You can say I don't read your responses all you like, but I choose what aspect of an argument I wish to engage in because I'm not interested in debating someone's assumptions. Nor am I interested in debating someone's opinions on how I speak. So I disagree that it is a disservice to allow other Champs to be affected. We can leave it at that.
They're not going to outright ban those Champs from War. They're also not going to nerf them. So here we are.
Do you think those are the only two options?
No, but Kabam has made a very clear statement. Those mechanics are not intended to be used on Boss Island. The idea that stopping other Champs with those Abilities is somehow an unforeseen side effect is moot.
No, they didn’t make that clear statement. We have seen written proof that they didn’t. You’re spreading misinformation.
When you read their statement, which did you read “there are a couple abilities playing by different rules”
Or “there are a couple champions playing by different rules”
Their statement came from adding the Node. Quite literally it stops those Abilities. You can argue ad nauseum that it was only about those two Champs because the Announcement mentioned it, but it's painfully obvious they're not going to narrow it that much.
No, they added the node because of their design intent. Which was to stop quake and ghost running riot.
You don’t know that they won’t narrow it down that much, that is literally the point of all our feedback that you seem so desperate to stamp out. And why do you think it would be such a bad thing to narrow it down? How could more champions to use and more fun to be had ever be a bad thing?
When people keep depending on the same Abilities over and over, it's a bad thing. There's more than button-mashing skill to the game. Having a diverse Roster and accommodating to whatever change comes is part of it as well. Can't always Miss or Evade through the Damage.
Yea, why rely on Parry, Dex, and Intercept when you can Stand Still and wait for the opponent to die.
They're not going to outright ban those Champs from War. They're also not going to nerf them. So here we are.
Do you think those are the only two options?
No, but Kabam has made a very clear statement. Those mechanics are not intended to be used on Boss Island. The idea that stopping other Champs with those Abilities is somehow an unforeseen side effect is moot.
No, they didn’t make that clear statement. We have seen written proof that they didn’t. You’re spreading misinformation.
When you read their statement, which did you read “there are a couple abilities playing by different rules”
Or “there are a couple champions playing by different rules”
Their statement came from adding the Node. Quite literally it stops those Abilities. You can argue ad nauseum that it was only about those two Champs because the Announcement mentioned it, but it's painfully obvious they're not going to narrow it that much.
No, they added the node because of their design intent. Which was to stop quake and ghost running riot.
You don’t know that they won’t narrow it down that much, that is literally the point of all our feedback that you seem so desperate to stamp out. And why do you think it would be such a bad thing to narrow it down? How could more champions to use and more fun to be had ever be a bad thing?
When people keep depending on the same Abilities over and over, it's a bad thing. There's more than button-mashing skill to the game. Having a diverse Roster and accommodating to whatever change comes is part of it as well. Can't always Miss or Evade through the Damage.
Yea, why rely on Parry, Dex, and Intercept when you can Stand Still and wait for the opponent to die.
They're not going to outright ban those Champs from War. They're also not going to nerf them. So here we are.
Do you think those are the only two options?
No, but Kabam has made a very clear statement. Those mechanics are not intended to be used on Boss Island. The idea that stopping other Champs with those Abilities is somehow an unforeseen side effect is moot.
No, they didn’t make that clear statement. We have seen written proof that they didn’t. You’re spreading misinformation.
When you read their statement, which did you read “there are a couple abilities playing by different rules”
Or “there are a couple champions playing by different rules”
Their statement came from adding the Node. Quite literally it stops those Abilities. You can argue ad nauseum that it was only about those two Champs because the Announcement mentioned it, but it's painfully obvious they're not going to narrow it that much.
No, they added the node because of their design intent. Which was to stop quake and ghost running riot.
You don’t know that they won’t narrow it down that much, that is literally the point of all our feedback that you seem so desperate to stamp out. And why do you think it would be such a bad thing to narrow it down? How could more champions to use and more fun to be had ever be a bad thing?
When people keep depending on the same Abilities over and over, it's a bad thing. There's more than button-mashing skill to the game. Having a diverse Roster and accommodating to whatever change comes is part of it as well. Can't always Miss or Evade through the Damage.
Yea, why rely on Parry, Dex, and Intercept when you can Stand Still and wait for the opponent to die.
We're not talking about basic game functions.
Yea, Evade and Phase aren’t basic. They should remove OG spidey’s evade. Too OP.
They're not going to outright ban those Champs from War. They're also not going to nerf them. So here we are.
Do you think those are the only two options?
No, but Kabam has made a very clear statement. Those mechanics are not intended to be used on Boss Island. The idea that stopping other Champs with those Abilities is somehow an unforeseen side effect is moot.
No, they didn’t make that clear statement. We have seen written proof that they didn’t. You’re spreading misinformation.
When you read their statement, which did you read “there are a couple abilities playing by different rules”
Or “there are a couple champions playing by different rules”
Their statement came from adding the Node. Quite literally it stops those Abilities. You can argue ad nauseum that it was only about those two Champs because the Announcement mentioned it, but it's painfully obvious they're not going to narrow it that much.
No, they added the node because of their design intent. Which was to stop quake and ghost running riot.
You don’t know that they won’t narrow it down that much, that is literally the point of all our feedback that you seem so desperate to stamp out. And why do you think it would be such a bad thing to narrow it down? How could more champions to use and more fun to be had ever be a bad thing?
When people keep depending on the same Abilities over and over, it's a bad thing. There's more than button-mashing skill to the game. Having a diverse Roster and accommodating to whatever change comes is part of it as well. Can't always Miss or Evade through the Damage.
Yea, why rely on Parry, Dex, and Intercept when you can Stand Still and wait for the opponent to die.
We're not talking about basic game functions.
Yea, Evade and Phase aren’t basic. They should remove OG spidey’s evade. Too OP.
Are you trying to tell me Quake and Ghost are comparable to Parry and Dex? If so, then people will have no problems using other Champs. Also, calling me out on skill in an argument about using Champs that easy street content isn't working in your favor here.
They're not going to outright ban those Champs from War. They're also not going to nerf them. So here we are.
Do you think those are the only two options?
No, but Kabam has made a very clear statement. Those mechanics are not intended to be used on Boss Island. The idea that stopping other Champs with those Abilities is somehow an unforeseen side effect is moot.
No, they didn’t make that clear statement. We have seen written proof that they didn’t. You’re spreading misinformation.
When you read their statement, which did you read “there are a couple abilities playing by different rules”
Or “there are a couple champions playing by different rules”
Their statement came from adding the Node. Quite literally it stops those Abilities. You can argue ad nauseum that it was only about those two Champs because the Announcement mentioned it, but it's painfully obvious they're not going to narrow it that much.
No, they added the node because of their design intent. Which was to stop quake and ghost running riot.
You don’t know that they won’t narrow it down that much, that is literally the point of all our feedback that you seem so desperate to stamp out. And why do you think it would be such a bad thing to narrow it down? How could more champions to use and more fun to be had ever be a bad thing?
When people keep depending on the same Abilities over and over, it's a bad thing. There's more than button-mashing skill to the game. Having a diverse Roster and accommodating to whatever change comes is part of it as well. Can't always Miss or Evade through the Damage.
Yea, why rely on Parry, Dex, and Intercept when you can Stand Still and wait for the opponent to die.
We're not talking about basic game functions.
Yea, Evade and Phase aren’t basic. They should remove OG spidey’s evade. Too OP.
Also, calling me out on skill in an argument about using Champs that easy street content isn't working in your favor here.
They're not going to outright ban those Champs from War. They're also not going to nerf them. So here we are.
Do you think those are the only two options?
No, but Kabam has made a very clear statement. Those mechanics are not intended to be used on Boss Island. The idea that stopping other Champs with those Abilities is somehow an unforeseen side effect is moot.
No, they didn’t make that clear statement. We have seen written proof that they didn’t. You’re spreading misinformation.
When you read their statement, which did you read “there are a couple abilities playing by different rules”
Or “there are a couple champions playing by different rules”
Their statement came from adding the Node. Quite literally it stops those Abilities. You can argue ad nauseum that it was only about those two Champs because the Announcement mentioned it, but it's painfully obvious they're not going to narrow it that much.
No, they added the node because of their design intent. Which was to stop quake and ghost running riot.
You don’t know that they won’t narrow it down that much, that is literally the point of all our feedback that you seem so desperate to stamp out. And why do you think it would be such a bad thing to narrow it down? How could more champions to use and more fun to be had ever be a bad thing?
When people keep depending on the same Abilities over and over, it's a bad thing. There's more than button-mashing skill to the game. Having a diverse Roster and accommodating to whatever change comes is part of it as well. Can't always Miss or Evade through the Damage.
Yea, why rely on Parry, Dex, and Intercept when you can Stand Still and wait for the opponent to die.
We're not talking about basic game functions.
Yea, Evade and Phase aren’t basic. They should remove OG spidey’s evade. Too OP.
Are you trying to tell me Quake and Ghost are comparable to Parry and Dex? If so, then people will have no problems using other Champs..
It’s only you who’s having trouble using any champ.
It’s more of those who are caught in the crossfire champions like Elsa, Mister Negative, Tigra, Stryfe more than Ghost and Quake. I’m a Ghost/Quake user but I don’t mind them limiting their scope but how it affected another set of champ is the thing we want to point out.
You don’t have to cry like a baby here if you can’t use those champs. As if you’re affected.
Comments
Do you actually think evade and miss are too op?
Are miles and invisible woman too good?
We've already established miss/evade as abilities aren't inherently problematic and don't need to be shut down on everyone
It's champs like quake who reduces ability accuracy by 100% in addition to being enabled to do damage with 0 contact through guaranteed evades and ghost who shrugs off debuff with phase and completely ignores damage while phased in addition to the all the other overloaded parts of her kit that cause problems.
The broken aspects of their kits are enabled by miss/evade but miss/evade aren't broken abilities that need to be shut down for all characters.
If that were the case we wouldn't be getting a new miss champ that literally counters miss counters.
I don’t believe he’s a troll, just stubbornly set in his ways, I want to have that conversation with him and try and get him to see our side. To show him that his points don’t sometimes have logic to them, and that it’s genuinely not the worst thing in the world to admit you’re wrong about something.
Even if he won’t extend the same courtesy, I’d answer his questions and points if he asked them.
But we would have Corvus and falcon fans rightly being annoyed. It’s an equally inelegant solution.
“ When people keep depending on the same Abilities over and over, it's a bad thing.”
“ Can't always Miss or Evade through the Damage.”
Why is it bad to depend on Miss and evade? What’s so overpowered about them?
The reason I disagree with this and all of your points, is because people do not use Ghost simply because she misses. Otherwise they would use Hood equally as much.
People do not use quake purely because she evades, or they would use miles and mr negative equally as much.
What you’re doing is creating a false equivalency between what was countered by the node, and what was the over powered aspect of ghost and quake.
Miss and evade are not the overpowered aspect, they are what Kabam have chosen to counter to thereby counter Ghost and quake. Please stop pretending that you know better than what Kabam are literally telling you.
We know this, because they said so. And every second you deny that design philosophy paints you back into a corner a little bit more
People are dependent on ghost and quake, I absolutely agree. They shouldn’t use them to the extent they’ve been trampling war. But seriously, stop saying you know better than Kabam’s self admitted design to counter quake and ghost, by pretending that people are unwilling to turn to other options.
People ARE turning to other options, Mr Negative, Elsa, tigra, prof X, stryfe to name a few. But Kabam have countered them, while countering ghost and quake. That is bad design philosophy, there is no reason that you or Kabam have given that could stop them only countering ghost or quake with the #overpowered tag idea. All you have said is “they wouldn’t do that” as if you know the workings of Kabam.
You have no reason why that would be a bad thing except “just use other champions”. Which is similar to the just use 3* argument, and the git gud argument some use. It doesn’t address the issue. Use other champs than ghost and quake sure, that’s fine, they’re overpowered. Other champions aren’t.
So please, just please. Read this, and genuinely take it in. Because I don’t think you actually read other peoples points, I read yours, and respond accordingly. You don’t extend others that same respect. Part of debate is listening, please accept that.
I’d really rather you didn’t respond to this, picking out one tiny part of it and responding to that. Just take it in, and think about what could the worst thing in the world be if Kabam let people use champions that weren’t overpowered. Does it really affect your life in such a great way that you need to argue against people using the champions they enjoy, that aren’t overpowered? Why do you need to feel like you have to put people down for wanting to enjoy a game in a reasonable way? I’ve never meant this more, but please, let people enjoy things.
You don't need me to explain why targeting 2 specific Champs in a more direct way would be a calamity. That much is obvious. Those of us that have lived through 12.0 know what that causes. For that matter, they also flat-out said they don't want to prevent people from using those Champs altogether. Which you fail to hone in on. You cannot outright label Champs #overpowered, or directly inhibit them from being used. It goes against a number of goals for War.
Yes, Kabam have countered their Abilities. Not the Champs themselves. More specifically, at one area of the Map. Interesting how you mention that people use those Champs for other reasons, and in the same thought react as if the Node stops people from using the other Champs altogether.
You can say I don't read your responses all you like, but I choose what aspect of an argument I wish to engage in because I'm not interested in debating someone's assumptions. Nor am I interested in debating someone's opinions on how I speak.
So I disagree that it is a disservice to allow other Champs to be affected. We can leave it at that.
Also, calling me out on skill in an argument about using Champs that easy street content isn't working in your favor here.
It’s more of those who are caught in the crossfire champions like Elsa, Mister Negative, Tigra, Stryfe more than Ghost and Quake. I’m a Ghost/Quake user but I don’t mind them limiting their scope but how it affected another set of champ is the thing we want to point out.
You don’t have to cry like a baby here if you can’t use those champs. As if you’re affected.
But anyway, it’s just another GW meme.
#Champions of the Universe or whatever The Champion has.