Regarding Brian Grant’s Most Recent Video

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Comments

  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 8,860 ★★★★★
    Graves_3 said:

    Graves_3 said:

    Zan0 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Zan0 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    I honestly believe that people should play the game how they want to. As long as it doesn't mess around with any competitive modes and they are doing it without bots. If they want to farm 3 accounts on 3 phones , and that's how they enjoy the game I don't see anything wrong with that.

    As far as Kabam goes they are engaging with the game 3 different times and time is always the biggest currency in the real world. They are more likely to recommend a friend as well.

    If cheating is the concern I understand. If deciding how people spend time is his concern who cares.

    You can see a player skip 100% exploration of a Act 6 and Act 7 and still end up TB. Just because we had to work a little harder and put more time in doesn't necessarily mean they they have to as well.

    But this does affect all sorts of things. Let me just easily farm enough units to gift myself units to unlock all masteries, enough units to easily explore abyss, and get over a 100k 6 star shards and loads of 6 star nexus crystals along with loads of t5cc and possibly this year small amounts of t6b and t3a
    If that's how you want to spend your time doing that you should be able to. Can you spend $500 bucks and complete abyss and unlock masteries ? Can you scoop up every cav and pay your way to grind for every 6* champ in arena ?
    It devalues units and defeats the purpose of the game. If someone wants to spend for units he’s free to do so because (news flash) kabam as a company needs to make money to run the game. You can’t seriously think that 500 fights (act 1-3 100%) for 3000 units aka 100$ of units is good for the game
    This sums it up.....it is so out of line with values in the game. Right now and for the next 45 days you can do 500 fights in the side event and get 2 bewhiskered crystals and some 4 star rank up materials or do 500 fights and send yourself 2100+ units. The bewhiskered crystal isn't worth $50.....
    A simple solution is this.....you can't send gifts until you are level 40-45. You can receive them but don't allow people to send gifts until they do that.
    I would refer you to the plat pool solo event. 6 fights-10minutes gave plat pool crystals. That gave me personally 1200 units. Others got 450-1600units. Is there a set value for stuff in this game? How can you fix value for things arbitrarily? Kabam themselves have fixed a value of 2100+ units for exploration of those 3 acts. You put the effort to earn those and then gift yourself. How does this devalue the units again? Now can you use these units to gift someone else other than your main account and have them send 1 to your main account? Is it not allowed to send gifts from a new account at all because there are plenty of units in the first 3 acts? How again does this devalue units?
    I get your point, and personally I don’t think this gifting from alts becomes an exploit until it’s egregiously abused (talking like 20 or so accounts, not a couple). But the Platpool event is an entirely different situation. It’s a one time, Cav locked event. It’s not easily exploitable, you’d need to make an account, get it to Cav and complete it all for those 1000 or so units.

    The difference is the ease to get those units from the start of the account. You can’t just pop open the game and do that 5 minute boss rush over and over and get thousands of units.
    The plat pool event comparison was for the claim that units are being devalued in comparison to the bewhiskered crystal. There is no fixed value for units that are available without paying money. It differs based on what kabam prefers to give. Last year they gave 1k+ units for just logging in from the summoner appreciation calendar. That required absolutely no effort but to open the app daily.
    Yes, but I'm saying that the platpool event doesn't devalue units as much as the new account unit farming - because how many units the platpool event gives out is limited by being Cav, new account farming is limited by clicking create account.

    Incidentally, the summoner calendar was likely changed to Fun in the sun because people made tons of alts to log in during the summoner appreciation event and get those units to gift themselves, so that works against your point as well. It's another example of units being too easy to get and use to gift yourself - AKA devaluing them.
  • Graves_3Graves_3 Posts: 825 ★★★★

    Graves_3 said:

    Graves_3 said:

    Zan0 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Zan0 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    I honestly believe that people should play the game how they want to. As long as it doesn't mess around with any competitive modes and they are doing it without bots. If they want to farm 3 accounts on 3 phones , and that's how they enjoy the game I don't see anything wrong with that.

    As far as Kabam goes they are engaging with the game 3 different times and time is always the biggest currency in the real world. They are more likely to recommend a friend as well.

    If cheating is the concern I understand. If deciding how people spend time is his concern who cares.

    You can see a player skip 100% exploration of a Act 6 and Act 7 and still end up TB. Just because we had to work a little harder and put more time in doesn't necessarily mean they they have to as well.

    But this does affect all sorts of things. Let me just easily farm enough units to gift myself units to unlock all masteries, enough units to easily explore abyss, and get over a 100k 6 star shards and loads of 6 star nexus crystals along with loads of t5cc and possibly this year small amounts of t6b and t3a
    If that's how you want to spend your time doing that you should be able to. Can you spend $500 bucks and complete abyss and unlock masteries ? Can you scoop up every cav and pay your way to grind for every 6* champ in arena ?
    It devalues units and defeats the purpose of the game. If someone wants to spend for units he’s free to do so because (news flash) kabam as a company needs to make money to run the game. You can’t seriously think that 500 fights (act 1-3 100%) for 3000 units aka 100$ of units is good for the game
    This sums it up.....it is so out of line with values in the game. Right now and for the next 45 days you can do 500 fights in the side event and get 2 bewhiskered crystals and some 4 star rank up materials or do 500 fights and send yourself 2100+ units. The bewhiskered crystal isn't worth $50.....
    A simple solution is this.....you can't send gifts until you are level 40-45. You can receive them but don't allow people to send gifts until they do that.
    I would refer you to the plat pool solo event. 6 fights-10minutes gave plat pool crystals. That gave me personally 1200 units. Others got 450-1600units. Is there a set value for stuff in this game? How can you fix value for things arbitrarily? Kabam themselves have fixed a value of 2100+ units for exploration of those 3 acts. You put the effort to earn those and then gift yourself. How does this devalue the units again? Now can you use these units to gift someone else other than your main account and have them send 1 to your main account? Is it not allowed to send gifts from a new account at all because there are plenty of units in the first 3 acts? How again does this devalue units?
    I get your point, and personally I don’t think this gifting from alts becomes an exploit until it’s egregiously abused (talking like 20 or so accounts, not a couple). But the Platpool event is an entirely different situation. It’s a one time, Cav locked event. It’s not easily exploitable, you’d need to make an account, get it to Cav and complete it all for those 1000 or so units.

    The difference is the ease to get those units from the start of the account. You can’t just pop open the game and do that 5 minute boss rush over and over and get thousands of units.
    The plat pool event comparison was for the claim that units are being devalued in comparison to the bewhiskered crystal. There is no fixed value for units that are available without paying money. It differs based on what kabam prefers to give. Last year they gave 1k+ units for just logging in from the summoner appreciation calendar. That required absolutely no effort but to open the app daily.
    Yes, but I'm saying that the platpool event doesn't devalue units as much as the new account unit farming - because how many units the platpool event gives out is limited by being Cav, new account farming is limited by clicking create account.

    Incidentally, the summoner calendar was likely changed to Fun in the sun because people made tons of alts to log in during the summoner appreciation event and get those units to gift themselves, so that works against your point as well. It's another example of units being too easy to get and use to gift yourself - AKA devaluing them.
    So what is actually a good value for units? How much time do you think needs to be spent to gain 2k units? 6hrs/12hrs/24hrs/a week?
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 8,860 ★★★★★
    Graves_3 said:

    Graves_3 said:

    Graves_3 said:

    Zan0 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    Zan0 said:

    Texas_11 said:

    I honestly believe that people should play the game how they want to. As long as it doesn't mess around with any competitive modes and they are doing it without bots. If they want to farm 3 accounts on 3 phones , and that's how they enjoy the game I don't see anything wrong with that.

    As far as Kabam goes they are engaging with the game 3 different times and time is always the biggest currency in the real world. They are more likely to recommend a friend as well.

    If cheating is the concern I understand. If deciding how people spend time is his concern who cares.

    You can see a player skip 100% exploration of a Act 6 and Act 7 and still end up TB. Just because we had to work a little harder and put more time in doesn't necessarily mean they they have to as well.

    But this does affect all sorts of things. Let me just easily farm enough units to gift myself units to unlock all masteries, enough units to easily explore abyss, and get over a 100k 6 star shards and loads of 6 star nexus crystals along with loads of t5cc and possibly this year small amounts of t6b and t3a
    If that's how you want to spend your time doing that you should be able to. Can you spend $500 bucks and complete abyss and unlock masteries ? Can you scoop up every cav and pay your way to grind for every 6* champ in arena ?
    It devalues units and defeats the purpose of the game. If someone wants to spend for units he’s free to do so because (news flash) kabam as a company needs to make money to run the game. You can’t seriously think that 500 fights (act 1-3 100%) for 3000 units aka 100$ of units is good for the game
    This sums it up.....it is so out of line with values in the game. Right now and for the next 45 days you can do 500 fights in the side event and get 2 bewhiskered crystals and some 4 star rank up materials or do 500 fights and send yourself 2100+ units. The bewhiskered crystal isn't worth $50.....
    A simple solution is this.....you can't send gifts until you are level 40-45. You can receive them but don't allow people to send gifts until they do that.
    I would refer you to the plat pool solo event. 6 fights-10minutes gave plat pool crystals. That gave me personally 1200 units. Others got 450-1600units. Is there a set value for stuff in this game? How can you fix value for things arbitrarily? Kabam themselves have fixed a value of 2100+ units for exploration of those 3 acts. You put the effort to earn those and then gift yourself. How does this devalue the units again? Now can you use these units to gift someone else other than your main account and have them send 1 to your main account? Is it not allowed to send gifts from a new account at all because there are plenty of units in the first 3 acts? How again does this devalue units?
    I get your point, and personally I don’t think this gifting from alts becomes an exploit until it’s egregiously abused (talking like 20 or so accounts, not a couple). But the Platpool event is an entirely different situation. It’s a one time, Cav locked event. It’s not easily exploitable, you’d need to make an account, get it to Cav and complete it all for those 1000 or so units.

    The difference is the ease to get those units from the start of the account. You can’t just pop open the game and do that 5 minute boss rush over and over and get thousands of units.
    The plat pool event comparison was for the claim that units are being devalued in comparison to the bewhiskered crystal. There is no fixed value for units that are available without paying money. It differs based on what kabam prefers to give. Last year they gave 1k+ units for just logging in from the summoner appreciation calendar. That required absolutely no effort but to open the app daily.
    Yes, but I'm saying that the platpool event doesn't devalue units as much as the new account unit farming - because how many units the platpool event gives out is limited by being Cav, new account farming is limited by clicking create account.

    Incidentally, the summoner calendar was likely changed to Fun in the sun because people made tons of alts to log in during the summoner appreciation event and get those units to gift themselves, so that works against your point as well. It's another example of units being too easy to get and use to gift yourself - AKA devaluing them.
    So what is actually a good value for units? How much time do you think needs to be spent to gain 2k units? 6hrs/12hrs/24hrs/a week?
    It's a good question, and obviously it's hard to put an exact value on it. It's also worth it to point out that it depends on how repeatable it is. 5 minutes to get 1 thousand units is absolutely fine, if it's linked to the platpool boss rush which is a one time thing, that you can't just create an account and do. But 6 hours for 2k units, while longer, is easily repeatable.

    And Kabam know this isn't good for the game, anyone who disagrees with that fact is just ignoring Miike's message that they know about this and are making sure it's not exploitable during gifting.

    So if you want me to say a specific length of time that is too short to be able to get 2k units that you can repeat over and over, obviously you will know that it's not as simple as saying black and white that it's... say 24 hours (pulled out of thin air as an example). Because then you say, oh so is it ok if it's 24 hours and 1 minute? But then also, I know that if I were to say a month, then that's obviously too high. So it's clear to me it's on a sliding scale, with lots of nuance.

    I will say this though, I do think that it should be somewhere around the amount of time it would reasonably take someone to grind out 2k units on your main account. I don't do enough arena to say exactly how long that is, but I know that you can get around 800 units from all 3 arenas + battlechips. So I don't think that's going to take only 6 hours is it? To 100% each 3 day arena - basic, featured and summoner trials.

    It needs to be similar to that, because then it treats making an alt as if it's supplementary to grinding your main. Or as an equal replacement. If you grind 2k units in 24 hours on your main, as an example. Then getting it in 6 hours is obviously so much better on an alt. But if it's pretty equal, then you can either grind an alt instead, or as well as. As it stands now, there is no point grinding it on your main - because there are 0 places on your main that can get you 2k units in 6 hours.
  • Wicket329Wicket329 Posts: 2,102 ★★★★★
    It is probably worth noting that whatever kind of gates they put in place to address this issue will only delay it. For example, if a person were to make many alt accounts and farm units right now and Kabam came out and said “an account must be this old or X level to participate in gifting,” then those alt accounts would sit out this year… and then be usable next time around.

    I have no idea how I feel about this. I don’t mind if people have an alt or two and decide to feed their main account with some quick and easy units. It’s the holidays, live and let live. I would mind if a person did this to such an extent as to tip rank rewards in an alliance or some other such nonsense. That would be obnoxious.
  • ZeraphanZeraphan Posts: 324 ★★★



    And Kabam know this isn't good for the game

    Kabam isn't concerned about the good of the game, they are concerned about their bottom line. If this kind of mass gifting was an actual concern then they wouldn't allow players to spend all the money they want on it.

    This is the same reason we don't get weekly compensation for solo stuff only AW/AQ stuff. They don't want units going out the door (which is what potions/revives would be) because they want people to spend money on those things instead.

    The "good of the game" and Kabam's bottom line often are in alignment, because obviously if the game does not continue to thrive then that kills the income as well, but this issue is not at all about the game and is totally about the bottom line.

  • ZeraphanZeraphan Posts: 324 ★★★
    Wicket329 said:

    It is probably worth noting that whatever kind of gates they put in place to address this issue will only delay it. For example, if a person were to make many alt accounts and farm units right now and Kabam came out and said “an account must be this old or X level to participate in gifting,” then those alt accounts would sit out this year… and then be usable next time around.

    I have no idea how I feel about this. I don’t mind if people have an alt or two and decide to feed their main account with some quick and easy units. It’s the holidays, live and let live. I would mind if a person did this to such an extent as to tip rank rewards in an alliance or some other such nonsense. That would be obnoxious.

    But it is ok for someone to spend money to buy units to do this? Either mass gifting via any means is bad or it isn't, but it can't be wrong for someone to do this for free and totally fine for someone to spend money when the end result is the same.
  • cookiedealercookiedealer Posts: 249 ★★
    edited November 2021
    QuikPik said:

    It is not hard at all to spot botters programmatically.

    1. Look for accounts that have spent 60+ hours in an arena each 3 day period.
    2. Analyze accounts level 60 with streaks greater than 1000
    3. Sort said accounts by name and look for patterns in account name

    Seriously, you could hire an intern to sift through this data and it won't take much effort to eliminate 90% of the botters.

    thepiggy said:

    Level 42
    3k prestige
    1500 win streak
    300k pvp

    There are thousands of these accounts botting 24/7 all year round waiting for gifting and we know nothing will be or can be done about it. Gifting is the most toxic event of the year and even worse than all the cheating in AW combined. Why does Kabam keep running it?


    What, you guys don't play mcoc for arena? This boy clearly just loves arena \s.

    Why does Kabam likes the gifting event? It historically makes them much more money than usual months.

    Making new accounts to send gifts has always been around. Should this be the norm? That's on Kabam. Even for this year 2021, people have been preparing and playing alt accounts to gift to their main.

    My main gripe are botters/unit frauders. These bot accounts, mass side accounts, also benefit from the new acts 1-4, because they most likely haven't grinded it to 100%. They can mass bot so on gifting season, they can sell units for cheap.

    For people making recently new accounts now to gift to themselves, versus people who already made accounts to gift themselves, that practice is the same. They're trading personal time for potential units/items for their main account.

    If Kabam hammers down on just recent new accounts, it won't address the unit fraud/botters.

    If Kabam prevents gifting from <year old alt accounts, it'll also affect more low spending players who made alt accounts in anticipation for the gifting event.

    If making/owning a few alt accounts to gift main accounts remains unaddressed/seemingly okay, it wouldn't seem right to exclude players who recently have less than a year old, but allow bot accounts who've been around longer than a year.
  • pseudosanepseudosane Posts: 2,577 ★★★★★
    Adevati said:

    Hoitado said:

    ChriissR said:

    Hoitado said:

    ChriissR said:

    You guys take YouTubers too seriously. If you're willing to make that many accounts, put in all those hours and grind the game for the gifting account. Good for you, you deserve those units lol

    Most people saying its "Game-breaking", it literally won't affect you. You guys really take a following to someone who has 20k crystals in his stash and can't open an egg crystal 😂


    It does affect us.

    That’s like saying hacking doesn’t affect someone

    Although this isn’t hacking, it still will have a major effect if nothing is done.

    If someone does this enough they can literally be in Act 4 with a whole team of 6* Champions
    No actually, hacking is using third party software to gain an advantage over someone else in a game.

    Spending your OWN 4-6 hours a day GRINDING a game manually is not breaking a game. I really want to meet someone who will do this for more then 5 days straight. You'll burn yourself out within a week, and if you don't, kudos to you, enjoy the units

    Since when should you be able to get multiple 6* Champions from just playing for some hours
    You’re greatly over estimating GGC rewards. Watch videos of 100GGC openings. They get about 25k 6-star shards.

    So based on that, expect 10k shards every 40 crystals. At 7 GGC for 6 hours work, you’re looking at an average of 34 hours of grinding. Hardly an unfair advantage.
    This was last year. Last year 25k 6* shards, was A LOT.
  • thepiggythepiggy Posts: 471 ★★★★
    Zeraphan said:

    Wicket329 said:

    It is probably worth noting that whatever kind of gates they put in place to address this issue will only delay it. For example, if a person were to make many alt accounts and farm units right now and Kabam came out and said “an account must be this old or X level to participate in gifting,” then those alt accounts would sit out this year… and then be usable next time around.

    I have no idea how I feel about this. I don’t mind if people have an alt or two and decide to feed their main account with some quick and easy units. It’s the holidays, live and let live. I would mind if a person did this to such an extent as to tip rank rewards in an alliance or some other such nonsense. That would be obnoxious.

    But it is ok for someone to spend money to buy units to do this? Either mass gifting via any means is bad or it isn't, but it can't be wrong for someone to do this for free and totally fine for someone to spend money when the end result is the same.
    I'm sure @DNA3000 can explain this much better, but there's a difference between money and time, although I agree that time is money...

    Kabam designs rewards like GGCs with a certain economy in mind. If you buy it with units using real money, the cost was high, rewards intended, and balanced. If you buy GGCs with units farmed from arena, it's balanced because it takes a long time farm them because the amount of units scattered across the game is intended and calculated.

    If contents is adjusted that allows easy farming (post-buff Act 1-3), it devalues the value of units (purchased or grinded the old fashioned way) and throws everything out of balance.

    A whale and a hardcore grinder don't affect game balance (assuming the whale can't buy everything in the game), but exploit farmers can.
  • TerraTerra Posts: 7,259 ★★★★★
    thepiggy said:

    Zeraphan said:

    Wicket329 said:

    It is probably worth noting that whatever kind of gates they put in place to address this issue will only delay it. For example, if a person were to make many alt accounts and farm units right now and Kabam came out and said “an account must be this old or X level to participate in gifting,” then those alt accounts would sit out this year… and then be usable next time around.

    I have no idea how I feel about this. I don’t mind if people have an alt or two and decide to feed their main account with some quick and easy units. It’s the holidays, live and let live. I would mind if a person did this to such an extent as to tip rank rewards in an alliance or some other such nonsense. That would be obnoxious.

    But it is ok for someone to spend money to buy units to do this? Either mass gifting via any means is bad or it isn't, but it can't be wrong for someone to do this for free and totally fine for someone to spend money when the end result is the same.
    I'm sure @DNA3000 can explain this much better, but there's a difference between money and time, although I agree that time is money...

    Kabam designs rewards like GGCs with a certain economy in mind. If you buy it with units using real money, the cost was high, rewards intended, and balanced. If you buy GGCs with units farmed from arena, it's balanced because it takes a long time farm them because the amount of units scattered across the game is intended and calculated.

    If contents is adjusted that allows easy farming (post-buff Act 1-3), it devalues the value of units (purchased or grinded the old fashioned way) and throws everything out of balance.

    A whale and a hardcore grinder don't affect game balance (assuming the whale can't buy everything in the game), but exploit farmers can.
    Farming in-game content isn't a exploit.
    Your trading time for the units, which arena users do as well.
  • AdevatiAdevati Posts: 350 ★★★
    thepiggy said:

    Zeraphan said:

    Chovner said:

    I don't care if someone else gets to open 6 or 600 GGCs.... how does that have anything to do with how many GGCs I open or resources I get other than me being butt hurt about it...

    I just don't understand why this is such a big deal. It's ok to grind hundreds of hours of arena for units, but it's not ok to grind multiple accounts and easier content for possibly more units. All this outcry is a big cry baby fest "I HAD TO WORK HARDER FOR MY UNITS.... IT'S NOT FAIR!!!!! wAAA....WAAAA.....WAAAAA..." Some people will just drop bank on Odins and get more units than anyone with the least amount of effort, so by this logic they should only be allowed to gain units by lots of grindy suffering because that's the PURE AND FAIR way to earn....

    100% this. If someone puts in the time then I don't have any right to be upset that I also didn't do the same thing that they did. They aren't hacking the game. They aren't cheating. They are spending their time in a game the way they want to grind to get something.

    People complaining over this is just as stupid as the people who complain when an offer has the wrong drop rates and those who got the bad crystals get fixed crystals but are upset they didn't get a set of bad crystals to "balance it out".

    I just can't with the amount of entitlement from so many people...
    It's not entitlement, it's out of balance and bad for the game.

    The buff to the early Acts is great for botters because they get units a lot faster upfront and for LEGIT farmers, it degrades the value of all content. Why stress about AW for 4 weeks for 20k shards and a nexus if you can farm Act 2 over a few days for the same rewards?
    I’d rather farm little accounts than do AW. That speaks more to AW as a game mode.
    thepiggy said:

    Level 42
    3k prestige
    1500 win streak
    300k pvp

    There are thousands of these accounts botting 24/7 all year round waiting for gifting and we know nothing will be or can be done about it. Gifting is the most toxic event of the year and even worse than all the cheating in AW combined. Why does Kabam keep running it?



    Because they will bot anyways. At least until Kabam can reliably stop it. To that end, if Kabam found a way to stop all botters and only legit farming occured, would you still take offense to the event?

    Back to botting. Instead of botting for gifting event; they’ll just bot to farm units all year so they can sell the account and transfer the cash to units. Except that way, when the bot is banned, some gullible poor soul is out the money and the main violator is untraceable. This way, if Kabam can identify a bot, all they have to do is see who receives the gifting crystals. Then trace any other accounts gifting, check for botting, etc. Now they know who is violating the rules and can ban the main.

    Because of that, I think you’ll find the vast majority of alts used for gifting event are legit farming.
  • ZeraphanZeraphan Posts: 324 ★★★
    thepiggy said:

    Zeraphan said:

    Wicket329 said:

    It is probably worth noting that whatever kind of gates they put in place to address this issue will only delay it. For example, if a person were to make many alt accounts and farm units right now and Kabam came out and said “an account must be this old or X level to participate in gifting,” then those alt accounts would sit out this year… and then be usable next time around.

    I have no idea how I feel about this. I don’t mind if people have an alt or two and decide to feed their main account with some quick and easy units. It’s the holidays, live and let live. I would mind if a person did this to such an extent as to tip rank rewards in an alliance or some other such nonsense. That would be obnoxious.

    But it is ok for someone to spend money to buy units to do this? Either mass gifting via any means is bad or it isn't, but it can't be wrong for someone to do this for free and totally fine for someone to spend money when the end result is the same.
    I'm sure @DNA3000 can explain this much better, but there's a difference between money and time, although I agree that time is money...

    Kabam designs rewards like GGCs with a certain economy in mind. If you buy it with units using real money, the cost was high, rewards intended, and balanced. If you buy GGCs with units farmed from arena, it's balanced because it takes a long time farm them because the amount of units scattered across the game is intended and calculated.

    If contents is adjusted that allows easy farming (post-buff Act 1-3), it devalues the value of units (purchased or grinded the old fashioned way) and throws everything out of balance.

    A whale and a hardcore grinder don't affect game balance (assuming the whale can't buy everything in the game), but exploit farmers can.
    Ok, so explain this to me.

    Player A spends tons of their time to get units for free through alt farming and gets 50 6* champs because of it (Totally made up numbers clearly).
    Player B spends real money to make sure they get the same number of crystals as Player A and they also receive 50 6* champs (still totally made up numbers).

    One of these effects the bottom line for Kabam, but how does only one of these have a different impact on you? The end result from both Player A and Player B is the same on every other player.
  • FROSTTTFROSTTT Posts: 45
    edited November 2021


    My account is still low level should i create a new acc to just gift GGC on this acc?
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 31,882 ★★★★★
    Zeraphan said:

    thepiggy said:

    Zeraphan said:

    Wicket329 said:

    It is probably worth noting that whatever kind of gates they put in place to address this issue will only delay it. For example, if a person were to make many alt accounts and farm units right now and Kabam came out and said “an account must be this old or X level to participate in gifting,” then those alt accounts would sit out this year… and then be usable next time around.

    I have no idea how I feel about this. I don’t mind if people have an alt or two and decide to feed their main account with some quick and easy units. It’s the holidays, live and let live. I would mind if a person did this to such an extent as to tip rank rewards in an alliance or some other such nonsense. That would be obnoxious.

    But it is ok for someone to spend money to buy units to do this? Either mass gifting via any means is bad or it isn't, but it can't be wrong for someone to do this for free and totally fine for someone to spend money when the end result is the same.
    I'm sure @DNA3000 can explain this much better, but there's a difference between money and time, although I agree that time is money...

    Kabam designs rewards like GGCs with a certain economy in mind. If you buy it with units using real money, the cost was high, rewards intended, and balanced. If you buy GGCs with units farmed from arena, it's balanced because it takes a long time farm them because the amount of units scattered across the game is intended and calculated.

    If contents is adjusted that allows easy farming (post-buff Act 1-3), it devalues the value of units (purchased or grinded the old fashioned way) and throws everything out of balance.

    A whale and a hardcore grinder don't affect game balance (assuming the whale can't buy everything in the game), but exploit farmers can.
    Ok, so explain this to me.

    Player A spends tons of their time to get units for free through alt farming and gets 50 6* champs because of it (Totally made up numbers clearly).
    Player B spends real money to make sure they get the same number of crystals as Player A and they also receive 50 6* champs (still totally made up numbers).

    One of these effects the bottom line for Kabam, but how does only one of these have a different impact on you? The end result from both Player A and Player B is the same on every other player.
    The difference is they're using Resources intended to help new Accounts, in order to boost their main. It's not Grinding vs. spending. It's the manipulation of the intended system that is the problem. If people want to spend their own money on themselves, that's different. They can do that on any Account. If they're taking advantage of the new Units, that's not the same.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 8,860 ★★★★★
    Zeraphan said:

    thepiggy said:

    Zeraphan said:

    Wicket329 said:

    It is probably worth noting that whatever kind of gates they put in place to address this issue will only delay it. For example, if a person were to make many alt accounts and farm units right now and Kabam came out and said “an account must be this old or X level to participate in gifting,” then those alt accounts would sit out this year… and then be usable next time around.

    I have no idea how I feel about this. I don’t mind if people have an alt or two and decide to feed their main account with some quick and easy units. It’s the holidays, live and let live. I would mind if a person did this to such an extent as to tip rank rewards in an alliance or some other such nonsense. That would be obnoxious.

    But it is ok for someone to spend money to buy units to do this? Either mass gifting via any means is bad or it isn't, but it can't be wrong for someone to do this for free and totally fine for someone to spend money when the end result is the same.
    I'm sure @DNA3000 can explain this much better, but there's a difference between money and time, although I agree that time is money...

    Kabam designs rewards like GGCs with a certain economy in mind. If you buy it with units using real money, the cost was high, rewards intended, and balanced. If you buy GGCs with units farmed from arena, it's balanced because it takes a long time farm them because the amount of units scattered across the game is intended and calculated.

    If contents is adjusted that allows easy farming (post-buff Act 1-3), it devalues the value of units (purchased or grinded the old fashioned way) and throws everything out of balance.

    A whale and a hardcore grinder don't affect game balance (assuming the whale can't buy everything in the game), but exploit farmers can.
    Ok, so explain this to me.

    Player A spends tons of their time to get units for free through alt farming and gets 50 6* champs because of it (Totally made up numbers clearly).
    Player B spends real money to make sure they get the same number of crystals as Player A and they also receive 50 6* champs (still totally made up numbers).

    One of these effects the bottom line for Kabam, but how does only one of these have a different impact on you? The end result from both Player A and Player B is the same on every other player.
    Yeah you’re right, there would be no difference in end result in this one specific example. But that doesn’t prove that the new farming method is ok to be allowed to be massively overused. You’re just picking out two hypothetical players and equating them to each other without considering anything else.

    Instead of comparing the end result of one player grinding and spending the same amount - What you really need to think about is the number of players that would take up the new method instead of doing anything, and how that would affect the economy. You need to think about how many extra units will be grinded out, compared to how much each player would have bought or grinded in the first place.

    You’re saying oh well if there’s a spender who would spend £100, but he’s grinded out 3100 units so what difference to the economy does that make? Clearly none, the same amount of units will be spent on the game. But that’s not the situation for every single player is it?

    What about someone who wasn’t going to spend, or grind out arena, but now that there’s this easy farming method they’re gonna go and grind out tons more units than they would ever have spent money on, or grinded in arena?

    You’re using one specific example to backup your point without looking at the whole picture. You need to look at the entire economy of the game, and think about every player who is going to get more than they otherwise would have. That’s the effect on the economy, not picking out two hypothetical players who spent/grinded the same amount.
  • Doctorwho13Doctorwho13 Posts: 418 ★★★
    Ebony_Naw said:

    Boy if I had a nickel for every time this conversation went in circles, I’d probably be able to come in first place in gifting.

    Second. I have first locked up and having 622 alt accounts going as we speak, farming 1,000000000000000 units on my 79 devices.
  • Graves_3Graves_3 Posts: 825 ★★★★
    How does this affect the game negatively? How does someone else’s progress affect me? Unless I am in the top 20 or even top 100 alliances?
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 31,882 ★★★★★
    Zeraphan said:



    The difference is they're using Resources intended to help new Accounts, in order to boost their main. It's not Grinding vs. spending. It's the manipulation of the intended system that is the problem. If people want to spend their own money on themselves, that's different. They can do that on any Account. If they're taking advantage of the new Units, that's not the same.

    This is no way effects you though. This only effects the bottom line for Kabam. It is no player's fault that Kabam redesigned the opening acts like this. This is the way the game currently functions. It is not an exploit to play the game as designed and do whatever the player wants with the in game rewards. All of this is a Kabam issue both in the cause and the effect.

    There are 2 solutions to this if mass gifting is actually a problem:
    1. Don't have the event.
    2. An account can only receive X number of crystals as gifts regardless of the source.

    Or we could just acknowledge that this doesn't effect players in any way because the end result is the same whether people grind/spend and that the players who will disagree with me right now are just jealous/upset that they don't have the time to grind alts as well.
    It affects me when I'm not using an Alt to boost my main, and playing without unfair advantages. It affects the fairness of the Event. It affects the entire point of having a Gifting Event. Essentially, it's people saying since we can't have the Units legitimately, we'll find a way around it. It's shady.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 31,882 ★★★★★
    There is NO WAY the intended design of the Act improvements was to have thousands of Units bolster other Accounts. Let's be honest.
  • thepiggythepiggy Posts: 471 ★★★★
    Zeraphan said:

    thepiggy said:

    Zeraphan said:

    Wicket329 said:

    It is probably worth noting that whatever kind of gates they put in place to address this issue will only delay it. For example, if a person were to make many alt accounts and farm units right now and Kabam came out and said “an account must be this old or X level to participate in gifting,” then those alt accounts would sit out this year… and then be usable next time around.

    I have no idea how I feel about this. I don’t mind if people have an alt or two and decide to feed their main account with some quick and easy units. It’s the holidays, live and let live. I would mind if a person did this to such an extent as to tip rank rewards in an alliance or some other such nonsense. That would be obnoxious.

    But it is ok for someone to spend money to buy units to do this? Either mass gifting via any means is bad or it isn't, but it can't be wrong for someone to do this for free and totally fine for someone to spend money when the end result is the same.
    I'm sure @DNA3000 can explain this much better, but there's a difference between money and time, although I agree that time is money...

    Kabam designs rewards like GGCs with a certain economy in mind. If you buy it with units using real money, the cost was high, rewards intended, and balanced. If you buy GGCs with units farmed from arena, it's balanced because it takes a long time farm them because the amount of units scattered across the game is intended and calculated.

    If contents is adjusted that allows easy farming (post-buff Act 1-3), it devalues the value of units (purchased or grinded the old fashioned way) and throws everything out of balance.

    A whale and a hardcore grinder don't affect game balance (assuming the whale can't buy everything in the game), but exploit farmers can.
    Ok, so explain this to me.

    Player A spends tons of their time to get units for free through alt farming and gets 50 6* champs because of it (Totally made up numbers clearly).
    Player B spends real money to make sure they get the same number of crystals as Player A and they also receive 50 6* champs (still totally made up numbers).

    One of these effects the bottom line for Kabam, but how does only one of these have a different impact on you? The end result from both Player A and Player B is the same on every other player.
    Let me put it this way, and it's a rough estimate so bear with me...

    Over the period of a week, it takes ~30hrs of in-game arena grinding to get ~2k units.

    Post-buff you can farm ~2k units from Acts 1-3 in ~6hrs and you don't have to wait for a new arena and you can get multiple devices and autofight going to make it even more efficient.

    You can get 5x the units doing the early Acts now that it does farming arena. Imagine if all in game item prices shot up by 5x? Imagine if 1x Cav crystal cost 1500 units..

    This is bad for the game.
  • Graves_3Graves_3 Posts: 825 ★★★★

    There is NO WAY the intended design of the Act improvements was to have thousands of Units bolster other Accounts. Let's be honest.

    Do you think quake was intended to be played the way she is right now? Kabam designs something and the player base comes up with strategies to maximize benefits from that. Saying it is bad for the games health or economy is just not true. The people grinding these units are not the ones who were ever going to spend money to bolster kabams revenues. Kabam will still make money off people who were willing to spend. That will not change.
  • ZeraphanZeraphan Posts: 324 ★★★



    You’re using one specific example to backup your point without looking at the whole picture. You need to look at the entire economy of the game, and think about every player who is going to get more than they otherwise would have. That’s the effect on the economy, not picking out two hypothetical players who spent/grinded the same amount.

    Whether 1 player or 100 players get a ton of extra crystals from this the effect on me is the same. Just like whether 1 player or 100 spend money on units.

    Your argument about players getting more than they normally would is just a statement that reads "someone spent their time doing this and now they got something for free and I don't like it".
  • ArymanAryman Posts: 15


    It affects me when I'm not using an Alt to boost my main, and playing without unfair advantages. It affects the fairness of the Event. It affects the entire point of having a Gifting Event. Essentially, it's people saying since we can't have the Units legitimately, we'll find a way around it. It's shady.

    Anyone could create alts for themselves and farm unity on them. Where do you see something unfair here?
    If someone spends money on the game and I dont, then I should also consider that it is unfair? We both have the same rights, and just because we don't take advantage of them doesn't mean it's unfair.
    And what is this - "Essentially, it's people saying since we can't have the Units legitimately, we'll find a way around it."?? Owning alts and farming units is allowed. Kabam did not forbid it before and after the early changes.



This discussion has been closed.