The new potion system is going to cause so much unnecessary stress for everyone who plays wars at a somewhat competitive level.
People will be afraid to die or even get hit because every combo you miss could cost from 100 to 300 units.
Everyone will be budgeting potions (even if they are ready to spend units on extra potions it’s unavoidable), counting loyalty, trying to split it between boosts and potions and failing (because there won’t be enough, which has been pointed out by practically everyone).
All of that will shift the focus of wars to constant worry about potions instead of actually enjoying the game mode.
And many people will quit wars because they will stop being fun. They’ll stop spending on offers (for many offers are a way to build a stronger war team, without AW they won’t spend).
That’s how it is in our alliance, deals are purchased and rankups are done with war attack or defense in mind. If we don’t do wars there won’t be any reason to spend units or actual money. Content can be done with r3s.
Try to keep wars competitive and fun.
Many mentioned 5 14k potions as average potion use per war. That seems about right. Consider using that as benchmark for how much loyalty should be available per week to purchase potions (at least 15 big potions, 5 per war).
The whole Community should stand together. We are playing last 2 seasons in p2 and we boykott the new system. We definately will Not buy potions for units. If the compensation potions are empty we will Not spend for potions anymore and we know quite a lot of the p2/3 leaders and all have so Same opinion on that.
Kabam will get this Update back like boomerang, where More and more people and alliances doesnt compete in this gamemode anymore. So cause of that the majority of spenders are not willing to pay for special Deals cause there ist no more competitive game Mode where u "need" new Good Champs on high ranks e.g. That update is falling big on kabams feet.
The problem with that logic is there will always be people who want to compete. They'll just move up.
No, that doesn't happen.
The amount of players that can actually afford 5-10k in potions per season, even in the masters bracket, is so low that teams will break up or start doing express clears.
There's only 1 area in the game where competition at the highest levels is just straight up cash...and that's AQ, but war isn't like that and never was.
GT40 have won 1st three seasons in a row and they're not spenders. 2nd and 3rd this past season have never won wars because of spending either.
Notice how no one really talks about the bump in rewards, because it doesn't matter. They could offer generic 3-4 gems each season, but if it costs hundreds of $$$$$ in cash to play, you won't find many signing up. Players will whale out on deals, but never on game modes and that's how it's always been.
Never on game modes? What game have you been playing? Wherever spending has been possible, people have spent. I'm not sure where you got the idea that people are entitled to be on top without spending, but that's not realistic, and it certainly isn't this game. This ridiculous, imaginary competition with F2P vs. P2P is just that, imaginary. What do you think people are spending for, if not an advantage? A little less YouTube and a little more logic would clarify that people who don't spend will not keep up with those that do. Which is perfectly fine. They don't have to. Those that spend get more. That's the same in the game as it is in life. It's a hard truth for those who don't have the means, but that's how it is. I was talking about the implication that people quitting the game mode would somehow hurt it financially and get their attention, and I pointed out that people refusing to spend wouldn't hurt any finances, and there will still be people willing to compete and take advantage of the bump in Rankings because others are boycotting it. Bottom line is, it's not a totally free game mode. Never has been, as long as Pots and Revs have been for sale. We can play within our means. We're not entitled to funding the highest Tiers by game play alone. Not as a given. Uncomfortable truth, but truth nonetheless.
@Kabam Miike@Kabam Zibiit why cant you guys give us a gift 3-5 million loyalty if this change isn’t about the money you should have no problem gifting players with a nice chunk of loyalty to help offset the massive cost increase to war if you claim this new system wasn’t meant to raise the cost of war but to help separate potions. There should be no issue with you helping the players out after a very very negative player move.
The whole Community should stand together. We are playing last 2 seasons in p2 and we boykott the new system. We definately will Not buy potions for units. If the compensation potions are empty we will Not spend for potions anymore and we know quite a lot of the p2/3 leaders and all have so Same opinion on that.
Kabam will get this Update back like boomerang, where More and more people and alliances doesnt compete in this gamemode anymore. So cause of that the majority of spenders are not willing to pay for special Deals cause there ist no more competitive game Mode where u "need" new Good Champs on high ranks e.g. That update is falling big on kabams feet.
The problem with that logic is there will always be people who want to compete. They'll just move up.
No, that doesn't happen.
The amount of players that can actually afford 5-10k in potions per season, even in the masters bracket, is so low that teams will break up or start doing express clears.
There's only 1 area in the game where competition at the highest levels is just straight up cash...and that's AQ, but war isn't like that and never was.
GT40 have won 1st three seasons in a row and they're not spenders. 2nd and 3rd this past season have never won wars because of spending either.
Notice how no one really talks about the bump in rewards, because it doesn't matter. They could offer generic 3-4 gems each season, but if it costs hundreds of $$$$$ in cash to play, you won't find many signing up. Players will whale out on deals, but never on game modes and that's how it's always been.
This is 100 percent correct. Once people see the cost being forced on them from all the ridiculous over powered nodes in war they will stop playing because the cost will soar. We in plat 4 and some of the paths and fights are ridiculous and players will not pay 100-300 dollars a week to play war. It just won’t happen no matter how much money you have in the bank people will not spend dumb unreasonable money.
The amount of players that can actually afford 5-10k in potions per season, even in the masters bracket, is so low that teams will break up or start doing express clears.
There's only 1 area in the game where competition at the highest levels is just straight up cash...and that's AQ, but war isn't like that and never was.
GT40 have won 1st three seasons in a row and they're not spenders. 2nd and 3rd this past season have never won wars because of spending either.
War has been about who can afford to compete at the higher levels whether through grinding or paying, but the input compensation changed that.
GT40 has been afforded the opportunity to compete “f2p” since that cost is currently being subsidized by compensation. They are winning wars spending, spending their compensation.
This idea that somehow the compensation meta should now be the norm is rather silly given how the game is designed and monetized, good luck getting that milk for free.
Also some players may have forgotten about these offers since there is no point in them given compensation but Kabam sure hasn’t and Kabam would surely like to see them return to relevance. Can’t wait for the ill informed gripes from non spenders when these return.
AW is not monetized and no one spends out of pocket to play it. You get boosts from alliance events, solo crystals, or from the Cavalier EQ offer using grinded units and they last all season and all potions come from glory. If you manage your resources, you don't pay a dime and have plenty of units to spare, even at the highest levels.
But these changes are not player friendly and artificially force unit spending on a mode that's never needed it, that's why you see a mob with pitckforks. Stop pushing your views when you don't have the relevant experience. It's good to listen every now and then too.
AW is not monetized and no one spends out of pocket to play it. You get boosts from alliance events, solo crystals, or from the Cavalier EQ offer using grinded units and they last all season and all potions come from glory. If you manage your resources, you don't pay a dime and have plenty of units to spare, even at the highest levels.
But these changes are not player friendly and artificially force unit spending on a mode that's never needed it, that's why you see a mob with pitckforks. Stop pushing your views when you don't have the relevant experience. It's good to listen every now and then too.
False, stop pushing demonstrably false nonsense.
The only difference between low paying/F2P players and high paying players in AW is that once a month most of the whales in and around P1+ will get one of those Cav crystal bundles with the 30% boosts. Other than that there’s not really a lot in it.
Monetisation in AW has always been second or third hand - sig stones, crystal offers, rank up materials, not participating in the mode itself.
AW is not monetized and no one spends out of pocket to play it. You get boosts from alliance events, solo crystals, or from the Cavalier EQ offer using grinded units and they last all season and all potions come from glory. If you manage your resources, you don't pay a dime and have plenty of units to spare, even at the highest levels.
But these changes are not player friendly and artificially force unit spending on a mode that's never needed it, that's why you see a mob with pitckforks. Stop pushing your views when you don't have the relevant experience. It's good to listen every now and then too.
False, stop pushing demonstrably false nonsense.
You can give your data on how much glory you got before the compensation issue, per quest, if your alliance was average basic level or expert in quest (let's divide 3 ranks to not make the issue complicated) and what was the value of the level 4 orb in the glory store Since you want to talk about proving false things...
I do not need any more evidence of aw being monetized than the guy saying “AW is not monetized and no one spends out of pocket to play it.” or that not all potions come from glory than the guy who posted that following up saying he has spent real money on those potion packs to participate.
Additionally there are numerous YouTubers who play at that level documenting themselves to have purchased those packs in the past, one of them on this thread (who’s loyalty calculations forgot to include off season loyalty, the loyalty from the AW solo objective, additionally holiday event loyalty and that’s just ottomh. Along with potions from that same solo event and holiday event potions.)
Furthermore pre compensation high tier AW participants were spending their units on the alliance war bundles available in the store which subsidized their potions.
Contrary to this false narrative currently being spun AW has been monetized.
I actually Can’t spend my Glory anymore, I used to spend it on potions. All these people talking about winning 2/3 wars it’s actually nearly impossible, at the end of the day only the top .1% can do that. everyone else wins several wars when they are settling their general war level and then it’s 50%, for long term alliances like mine basically we’ve won 51% of our wars in the last 5 years, and realistically that’s what’s going to keep happening, yeah I find this maths very hard to swallow, I’ve always spent half of my gory on potions, I max my stash off season, and loyalty has always been valuable for boosts . Affording a few potions a week and not being able to buy boosts sounds terrible. On top of that I feel like there’s a lot of fragility in alliances at the moment, we’ve played for 7 Months on a broken game. when these compensations finish, we’ve got so used to using potions that having a hurdle of buying potions or boosts or having to spend units is probably going to cause quite a few quits, kabam actually needs to factor that we’ve got used to potions and going cold turkey on a new loyalty system maybe the straw that breaks a lot of camels backs, in my alliance there’s a lot of fatigue at the moment, we will lose people over these current proposed changes
No matter how hard Kabam and their supporters deny that they are monetizing AW, the reality is, the loyalty income per week can only buy 3-4 level-4 potions which can heal 70% health of a 6R4 champion for ONCE, after that, players have to spend units to play AW.
After healing a 6R4 champion once (per week), there are two options for those players, spending really money or stopping AW. Based on the unit price of potions in store, do you truly think those players will spend really money for AW, instead of saving those money for good offers?
You might say if you don't want to play AW then stop it, that's true, but it means Kabam will lose huge amount of AW players so this change can kill this game mode, and unfortunately, AW is probably the only game mode attract some people, you know what that means right?
Let's also remember, with this system no more breaks from wars between seasons - you'll need that loyalty, and you'll actually need to win them. So you can say hello to some more stress between seasons too.
AW is not monetized and no one spends out of pocket to play it. You get boosts from alliance events, solo crystals, or from the Cavalier EQ offer using grinded units and they last all season and all potions come from glory. If you manage your resources, you don't pay a dime and have plenty of units to spare, even at the highest levels.
But these changes are not player friendly and artificially force unit spending on a mode that's never needed it, that's why you see a mob with pitckforks. Stop pushing your views when you don't have the relevant experience. It's good to listen every now and then too.
False, stop pushing demonstrably false nonsense.
You can give your data on how much glory you got before the compensation issue, per quest, if your alliance was average basic level or expert in quest (let's divide 3 ranks to not make the issue complicated) and what was the value of the level 4 orb in the glory store Since you want to talk about proving false things...
I do not need any more evidence of aw being monetized than the guy saying “AW is not monetized and no one spends out of pocket to play it.” or that not all potions come from glory than the guy who posted that following up saying he has spent real money on those potion packs to participate.
Additionally there are numerous YouTubers who play at that level documenting themselves to have purchased those packs in the past, one of them on this thread (who’s loyalty calculations forgot to include off season loyalty, the loyalty from the AW solo objective, additionally holiday event loyalty and that’s just ottomh. Along with potions from that same solo event and holiday event potions.)
Furthermore pre compensation high tier AW participants were spending their units on the alliance war bundles available in the store which subsidized their potions.
Contrary to this false narrative currently being spun AW has been monetized.
You didn't answer the question and I know why, as the data doesn't support what you say.
You obviously do not know why. I did not answer because it is irrelevant to the point I was making. I was addressing the false narrative about AW not being monetized and potions for units/cash being foreign to the game mode. I was not addressing anything relative to your questions asked of me.
@CoatHang3r That was why the meta was so stale previously. Few alliances really fought for masters, those who can afford it. Not anymore. The meta has changed and has sparked intense competition at the top. It just basially highlights that potions are grossly overpriced and out of date with the current meta.
We had a broken game before, it wasn't really competitive and it wasn't fun, and definitely it wasn't worth it, it was a waste of time and resources.
Compensation fixed that, and now we want to go back to what we had or worst, with a much more evolved and complex meta... And we have Battlegrounds around the corner... The amount of ppl playing or been interested in war is going to be reduced by quite a lot.
Compensation is not a solution. As useful as it's been, that was my growing concern. People have become accustomed to it.
Yes, it never was. it was a band aid to an absolutely broken and outdated system. Flags were raised for months, and ignored by kabam.
I will agree that the percentages they healed were a bit antiquated. I don't see the system itself broken. There was a limitation to it. If you had Pots, you went on. If you couldn't, that was a decision you made to take the L and accept it. There's always going to be someone who has more means than someone else. I understand where people are coming from, but I don't think it's reasonable. The same way I didn't agree with Defender Kills returning. People who don't spend want some sort of handicap for people who do.
Compensation is not a solution. As useful as it's been, that was my growing concern. People have become accustomed to it.
Yes, it never was. it was a band aid to an absolutely broken and outdated system. Flags were raised for months, and ignored by kabam.
I will agree that the percentages they healed were a bit antiquated. I don't see the system itself broken. There was a limitation to it. If you had Pots, you went on. If you couldn't, that was a decision you made to take the L and accept it. There's always going to be someone who has more means than someone else. I understand where people are coming from, but I don't think it's reasonable. The same way I didn't agree with Defender Kills returning. People who don't spend want some sort of handicap for people who do.
Please don't ignore the fact that this game mode is already accepted by the community for ages, people are OK with the current ecosystem, it is a very bad idea to change it because it will significantly impact those alliances focusing on AW: it is so hard to recruit a different set of players, people might just decide to leave.
Lady’s and gentlemen, please don’t fight each other. Nobody here works for kabam except the kabam mods - either, there will be an additional info/fix, or it’s done with war, very simple. Either way, this wasn’t the cleverest approach from the game team but we will see what will happen
Changes in the potion system are unlikely to affect alliances that can’t be bothered to run 3 BGs in wars. They are aimed at and will affect alliances that are competing for top spots / ranks. Master and Platinum.
The ones that spend time and resources and actual money on boosts, potions, champions and their rankup, masteries and so on. The ones that will have to spend units on extra potions soon.
The fact that there are so many concerned posts from members of high ranking alliances should be an indicator that we are not complaining just to complain.
We are worried that many will have to abandon wars in general or competitive wars.
The expectation is that more will step down rather than agree to pay a fortune for potions.
Everyone is free to state their opinion but it is not nice to try to derail discussion when we have a reason to be concerned and when there are no signs that this matter has been resolved. Not yet.
Would Kabam consider tracking item use in alliances from Master to P1-P3 to assess their item use this season and how many potions are actually needed per war?
So we can receive loyalty in the amount that is enough to cover at least the bare minimum that is required (and extras will be covered with units)?
Changes in the potion system are unlikely to affect alliances that can’t be bothered to run 3 BGs in wars. They are aimed at and will affect alliances that are competing for top spots / ranks. Master and Platinum.
The ones that spend time and resources and actual money on boosts, potions, champions and their rankup, masteries and so on. The ones that will have to spend units on extra potions soon.
The fact that there are so many concerned posts from members of high ranking alliances should be an indicator that we are not complaining just to complain.
We are worried that many will have to abandon wars in general or competitive wars.
The expectation is that more will step down rather than agree to pay a fortune for potions.
Everyone is free to state their opinion but it is not nice to try to derail discussion when we have a reason to be concerned and when there are no signs that this matter has been resolved. Not yet.
Would Kabam consider tracking item use in alliances from Master to P1-P3 to assess their item use this season and how many potions are actually needed per war?
So we can receive loyalty in the amount that is enough to cover at least the bare minimum that is required (and extras will be covered with units)?
Definitely agree that tracking potion use in T1, T2 and T3 would make relevant data, it also needs to only been taken into consideration during the season, as it is alliances only use potions ~⅔ of the time.
We have talked this topic to death now, 90% of the comments have been constructive and pretty unanimous: this is a really poor idea.
Why not just roll all of the changes back to how they were before all of this, go back to the drawing board and implement the changes with better potions, using better data and when you’ve decided where exactly these additional sources of loyalty are going to come from. But as it stands, being able to buy a few potions a week at the top of AW and virtually none at lower tiers is going to kill war.
High spenders are all in high AQ alliances and aren’t going to spend 3k units a month when they can get better resources weekly for free.
Comments
People will be afraid to die or even get hit because every combo you miss could cost from 100 to 300 units.
Everyone will be budgeting potions (even if they are ready to spend units on extra potions it’s unavoidable), counting loyalty, trying to split it between boosts and potions and failing (because there won’t be enough, which has been pointed out by practically everyone).
All of that will shift the focus of wars to constant worry about potions instead of actually enjoying the game mode.
And many people will quit wars because they will stop being fun. They’ll stop spending on offers (for many offers are a way to build a stronger war team, without AW they won’t spend).
That’s how it is in our alliance, deals are purchased and rankups are done with war attack or defense in mind. If we don’t do wars there won’t be any reason to spend units or actual money. Content can be done with r3s.
Try to keep wars competitive and fun.
Many mentioned 5 14k potions as average potion use per war. That seems about right. Consider using that as benchmark for how much loyalty should be available per week to purchase potions (at least 15 big potions, 5 per war).
Wherever spending has been possible, people have spent. I'm not sure where you got the idea that people are entitled to be on top without spending, but that's not realistic, and it certainly isn't this game. This ridiculous, imaginary competition with F2P vs. P2P is just that, imaginary. What do you think people are spending for, if not an advantage? A little less YouTube and a little more logic would clarify that people who don't spend will not keep up with those that do. Which is perfectly fine. They don't have to.
Those that spend get more. That's the same in the game as it is in life. It's a hard truth for those who don't have the means, but that's how it is.
I was talking about the implication that people quitting the game mode would somehow hurt it financially and get their attention, and I pointed out that people refusing to spend wouldn't hurt any finances, and there will still be people willing to compete and take advantage of the bump in Rankings because others are boycotting it.
Bottom line is, it's not a totally free game mode. Never has been, as long as Pots and Revs have been for sale. We can play within our means. We're not entitled to funding the highest Tiers by game play alone. Not as a given. Uncomfortable truth, but truth nonetheless.
GT40 has been afforded the opportunity to compete “f2p” since that cost is currently being subsidized by compensation. They are winning wars spending, spending their compensation.
This idea that somehow the compensation meta should now be the norm is rather silly given how the game is designed and monetized, good luck getting that milk for free.
Also some players may have forgotten about these offers since there is no point in them given compensation but Kabam sure hasn’t and Kabam would surely like to see them return to relevance. Can’t wait for the ill informed gripes from non spenders when these return.
Monetisation in AW has always been second or third hand - sig stones, crystal offers, rank up materials, not participating in the mode itself.
Additionally there are numerous YouTubers who play at that level documenting themselves to have purchased those packs in the past, one of them on this thread (who’s loyalty calculations forgot to include off season loyalty, the loyalty from the AW solo objective, additionally holiday event loyalty and that’s just ottomh. Along with potions from that same solo event and holiday event potions.)
Furthermore pre compensation high tier AW participants were spending their units on the alliance war bundles available in the store which subsidized their potions.
Contrary to this false narrative currently being spun AW has been monetized.
Can’t spend my Glory anymore, I used to spend it on potions. All these people talking about winning 2/3 wars it’s actually nearly impossible, at the end of the day only the top .1% can do that. everyone else wins several wars when they are settling their general war level and then it’s 50%, for long term alliances like mine basically we’ve won 51% of our wars in the last 5 years, and realistically that’s what’s going to keep happening, yeah I find this maths very hard to swallow, I’ve always spent half of my gory on potions, I max my stash off season, and loyalty has always been valuable for boosts . Affording a few potions a week and not being able to buy boosts sounds terrible. On top of that I feel like there’s a lot of fragility in alliances at the moment, we’ve played for 7
Months on a broken game. when these compensations finish, we’ve got so used to using potions that having a hurdle of buying potions or boosts or having to spend units is probably going to cause quite a few quits, kabam actually needs to factor that we’ve got used to potions and going cold turkey on a new loyalty system maybe the straw that breaks a lot of camels backs, in my alliance there’s a lot of fatigue at the moment, we will lose people over these current proposed changes
After healing a 6R4 champion once (per week), there are two options for those players, spending really money or stopping AW. Based on the unit price of potions in store, do you truly think those players will spend really money for AW, instead of saving those money for good offers?
You might say if you don't want to play AW then stop it, that's true, but it means Kabam will lose huge amount of AW players so this change can kill this game mode, and unfortunately, AW is probably the only game mode attract some people, you know what that means right?
So you can say hello to some more stress between seasons too.
Compensation fixed that, and now we want to go back to what we had or worst, with a much more evolved and complex meta... And we have Battlegrounds around the corner... The amount of ppl playing or been interested in war is going to be reduced by quite a lot.
The ones that spend time and resources and actual money on boosts, potions, champions and their rankup, masteries and so on. The ones that will have to spend units on extra potions soon.
The fact that there are so many concerned posts from members of high ranking alliances should be an indicator that we are not complaining just to complain.
We are worried that many will have to abandon wars in general or competitive wars.
The expectation is that more will step down rather than agree to pay a fortune for potions.
Everyone is free to state their opinion but it is not nice to try to derail discussion when we have a reason to be concerned and when there are no signs that this matter has been resolved. Not yet.
Would Kabam consider tracking item use in alliances from Master to P1-P3 to assess their item use this season and how many potions are actually needed per war?
So we can receive loyalty in the amount that is enough to cover at least the bare minimum that is required (and extras will be covered with units)?
We have talked this topic to death now, 90% of the comments have been constructive and pretty unanimous: this is a really poor idea.
Why not just roll all of the changes back to how they were before all of this, go back to the drawing board and implement the changes with better potions, using better data and when you’ve decided where exactly these additional sources of loyalty are going to come from. But as it stands, being able to buy a few potions a week at the top of AW and virtually none at lower tiers is going to kill war.
High spenders are all in high AQ alliances and aren’t going to spend 3k units a month when they can get better resources weekly for free.