True. The amount of times I have whiffed that heavy trying to counter sps and heavys is insane. I find the range to be quite inconsistent. Plus, I hate that a champion that needs constant heavys has the longest heavy animation. I had hoped that they would change it. Rip.
One other change that @Rockypantherx has pointed out is that Gamora now has a cap of 25 buffs on both her furies and cruelties (so max of 25 each, 50 combined)
That’s a really odd change. 25 furies gives her about 9725 extra attack as a 5/65, and she has a base attack of 2437, making her new attack 12,162 meaning her damage will increase by a max of 5 times her base.
Currently, to get that 9725 attack bonus, Gamora needs 16 fury buffs. So Gamora’s max damage is now capped as though at 16 of her current fury buffs.
Gamora still hits pretty hard with 16 fury buffs, but it is honestly a really weird change.
Here is a video of a rank 1, suicides and synergies included Gamora. She has 20% attack and 20% fury + cruelty potency and also a 15% attack boost from white mags pre fight.
At around 2:45 she gets 16 fury buffs, so this is what max cap fury buffs gamora will look like as a rank 1, suicide and synergy and wags pre fight champ. Also bear in mind the armour break is active here, so this is pretty much max damage.
Mediums crit / non crit: 22476 /4610
Lights crit / non crit: 14408 / 3078
Clearly more than respectable damage, it’s just odd that a cap has been put in place.
Pretty weak buff. She still has almost no utility. The number of buffs before she counters Miss still needs to be lower. Like 4-5. Otherwise you’re just waiting too long to get into the actual fight.
Pretty weak buff. She still has almost no utility. The number of buffs before she counters Miss still needs to be lower. Like 4-5. Otherwise you’re just waiting too long to get into the actual fight.
To be fair, I think this is probably the strongest aspect of the buff. The change in the miss counter.
So before, it was a 35% chance per hit, and you needed 10 buffs. That meant you’d need an expected 29 medium or light hits to get your miss counter (0.35* 29 = 10.15) . Add in heavy attacks every two combos or so, and you’ve got over 40 hits before you can counter miss.
Now, you only need an expected 13 medium or light hits to counter miss (0.65 *13 = 8.45). So two 5 hit combos and a heavy, then MLL for about 17 hits including the heavy will on average get you your miss counter. Is this perfect? No, but it’s a hell of an improvement by a factor of 3 times less expected hits. And in my view, aside from the buff duration increase, it’s probably the only real improvement this buff is showing.
This part was fine in my view, what isn’t as fine overall, is that she isn’t getting anything else added. She does need something else to make her buff exciting, and on that level, I’ll agree with you it’s a weak buff
I don’t think so, not based on only two tune ups. This is my response to a similar question in this thread I’ll copy it below
Maybe the first two buffs of the program being small tune ups is a sign of the future of the program post change, maybe they’re a shaky start of a really positive program.
2 samples isn’t a lot to choose from in the grand scheme of things - especially two tune ups that are definitely safety options from Kabam’s point of view. I mean, imagine trying to judge the previous program on nova and ronin.
I definitely agree it’s not the greatest start, but just look at two other confirmed champions - Deadpool X force and Storm OG. There is no chance they are going to be tune ups. I think that’s where we can actually get a good look at how this program is going to turn out. I’m personally trying to stay optimistic for these moderate/overhaul champs in the future. If only for the sake of my duped DPXF 6*
So how long until we should question there's something wrong internally at Kabam? It was announced that the reduction in amount of buffs recently are due to resource shifting for the champion attribute and balancing update programme but guess what, til now theres still no results to show from that!
Additionally the psycho-man and gamora buffs are so insignificant and could even be deemed low effort which certainly doesn't do the original promise of the buff programme justice at all?
Is the entire champion balancing/designing team focused on pumping out new champions? Maybe its time to hire additional help?
To be fair, they have explained why you haven’t seen anything on the new balance update program, Omega sentinel and Cap Britain aren’t going to be subject to it, instead, Black Cat and Scorpion next month are going to be the first ones that will use the new program.
Additionally, we were also supposed to get another buff this month (most rumours suggest Red Guardian) which was pulled due to real world events - maybe that was an amazing tune up that would have changed our opinion on the update. Or maybe Black widow OG or Deadly origins may have gotten an overhaul or moderate/tune up respectively. Who knows.
So to answer your question how long until we question if there’s something wrong internally: in my view, longer than two buffs, and long enough to judge how the new program works for new champs. I.e. once we’ve seen how it affects at least a few months worth of champions. And long enough to see what the new attribute system looks like and if it would help newer players.
There are 3 aspects here: buffs, attributes and new champ tuning. The first, we’ve only seen 2. The second, we haven’t seen at all. The third, we haven’t seen at all. To me, that seems way too short a time to judge a new program as a failure, or to judge an internal issue.
I don’t think so, not based on only two tune ups. This is my response to a similar question in this thread I’ll copy it below
Maybe the first two buffs of the program being small tune ups is a sign of the future of the program post change, maybe they’re a shaky start of a really positive program.
2 samples isn’t a lot to choose from in the grand scheme of things - especially two tune ups that are definitely safety options from Kabam’s point of view. I mean, imagine trying to judge the previous program on nova and ronin.
I definitely agree it’s not the greatest start, but just look at two other confirmed champions - Deadpool X force and Storm OG. There is no chance they are going to be tune ups. I think that’s where we can actually get a good look at how this program is going to turn out. I’m personally trying to stay optimistic for these moderate/overhaul champs in the future. If only for the sake of my duped DPXF 6*
The excitement for buffs is reducing every passing day.
The buff programm and new champions program was the most commented forum thread in a while kabam just ignored the community.
In general at peak forums used to be flooded with posts like anything , now I see very few people here and mostly same people posting.
This shows declining interest, I hope kabam notices this and just starts doing things that will bring back excitement.
People are now just going through daily mcoc routine and sooner rather that later will be bored.
Battle Grounds can be this change but it will also go so far if kabam does not account for community feedback, but only in case of BG seems like they would do since it's make or break for the game.
Buff programm has been shelved or put on back burner by kabam as of now.
I definitely understand the sentiment. What the issue is, is the combination of no buffs for 2 months in January and February, then a lacklustre Psychoman which solved nothing, and a non- exciting gamora buff which only solves issues in her kit without adding anything she sorely needs to be a viable champion.
As humans, we like things to be simple, and as such we see something like that and think “well, that’s terrible, it’s over, there’s no buff program now”. But in the grand scheme of things, you can’t just think emotionally about something like this, you need to look at the facts. They had a break in January due to staff getting holiday time and they had a break in February to prepare for the new cadence. That explains that.
They then began a new program, while preparing for the new tuning system for new champs. So they probably decided to go for a safe, easy one first with psychoman. Gamora was supposed to be alongside a second champion that was pulled as mentioned above. Maybe that one was more exciting.
Overall, you’re judging a buff program on 2 out of a potential future 20 or more buffs. Would you judge the previous one on Nova or Ronin? No, they may be the worst of the bunch.
I’m not saying there’s a 100% chance that every future buff, or even any of them, is going to be amazing. I’m just saying it’s illogical to write it off as a failed program after 2 buffs. Especially after two tune ups, which historically change the least. Storm and Deadpool are up soon, they can’t be tune ups so potentially have some exciting ability changes.
Wait and see for a few more rounds of the new buffs. Wait to see more data before seeing a coin flip twice on heads and assuming that’s the only result that’s possible.
I don’t think so, not based on only two tune ups. This is my response to a similar question in this thread I’ll copy it below
Maybe the first two buffs of the program being small tune ups is a sign of the future of the program post change, maybe they’re a shaky start of a really positive program.
2 samples isn’t a lot to choose from in the grand scheme of things - especially two tune ups that are definitely safety options from Kabam’s point of view. I mean, imagine trying to judge the previous program on nova and ronin.
I definitely agree it’s not the greatest start, but just look at two other confirmed champions - Deadpool X force and Storm OG. There is no chance they are going to be tune ups. I think that’s where we can actually get a good look at how this program is going to turn out. I’m personally trying to stay optimistic for these moderate/overhaul champs in the future. If only for the sake of my duped DPXF 6*
The excitement for buffs is reducing every passing day.
The buff programm and new champions program was the most commented forum thread in a while kabam just ignored the community.
In general at peak forums used to be flooded with posts like anything , now I see very few people here and mostly same people posting.
This shows declining interest, I hope kabam notices this and just starts doing things that will bring back excitement.
People are now just going through daily mcoc routine and sooner rather that later will be bored.
Battle Grounds can be this change but it will also go so far if kabam does not account for community feedback, but only in case of BG seems like they would do since it's make or break for the game.
Buff programm has been shelved or put on back burner by kabam as of now.
I definitely understand the sentiment. What the issue is, is the combination of no buffs for 2 months in January and February, then a lacklustre Psychoman which solved nothing, and a non- exciting gamora buff which only solves issues in her kit without adding anything she sorely needs to be a viable champion.
As humans, we like things to be simple, and as such we see something like that and think “well, that’s terrible, it’s over, there’s no buff program now”. But in the grand scheme of things, you can’t just think emotionally about something like this, you need to look at the facts. They had a break in January due to staff getting holiday time and they had a break in February to prepare for the new cadence. That explains that.
They then began a new program, while preparing for the new tuning system for new champs. So they probably decided to go for a safe, easy one first with psychoman. Gamora was supposed to be alongside a second champion that was pulled as mentioned above. Maybe that one was more exciting.
Overall, you’re judging a buff program on 2 out of a potential future 20 or more buffs. Would you judge the previous one on Nova or Ronin? No, they may be the worst of the bunch.
I’m not saying there’s a 100% chance that every future buff, or even any of them, is going to be amazing. I’m just saying it’s illogical to write it off as a failed program after 2 buffs. Especially after two tune ups, which historically change the least. Storm and Deadpool are up soon, they can’t be tune ups so potentially have some exciting ability changes.
Wait and see for a few more rounds of the new buffs. Wait to see more data before seeing a coin flip twice on heads and assuming that’s the only result that’s possible.
I am not saying buffs have to be amazing at all.
It's the change in outlook and effort kabam is now putting into buff programm is significantly less.
Last year buffs were a tradition where we used to get buff reveal and the spotlight etc. Which created excitement also the buffs themselves have just been change is 1-2 numbers that's about it.
Like For gamora they now limit the buff cap I don't see why it's kind of Rebalance than a buff and majority of the community don't even care anymore.
Last year when this kind of treatment was given to Hood there was explosion on the forums, Today I see just one post and that to not a lot of people commenting on.
That’s fair, I’m personally going to be withholding judgement and putting this down to potential teething problems until it gets into the swing of it.
If DPXF and Storm have impressive buffs I think you’ll see the sentiment you talk about swing wildly in the other direction, people will brush off the disappointment of the initial buffs and the hype will return. I just hope, as you do, that Kabam kickstart the program and get it chugging happily along with a couple of exciting buffs, they could really do with boosting the player base sentiment.
I don’t think so, not based on only two tune ups. This is my response to a similar question in this thread I’ll copy it below
Maybe the first two buffs of the program being small tune ups is a sign of the future of the program post change, maybe they’re a shaky start of a really positive program.
2 samples isn’t a lot to choose from in the grand scheme of things - especially two tune ups that are definitely safety options from Kabam’s point of view. I mean, imagine trying to judge the previous program on nova and ronin.
I definitely agree it’s not the greatest start, but just look at two other confirmed champions - Deadpool X force and Storm OG. There is no chance they are going to be tune ups. I think that’s where we can actually get a good look at how this program is going to turn out. I’m personally trying to stay optimistic for these moderate/overhaul champs in the future. If only for the sake of my duped DPXF 6*
The excitement for buffs is reducing every passing day.
The buff programm and new champions program was the most commented forum thread in a while kabam just ignored the community.
In general at peak forums used to be flooded with posts like anything , now I see very few people here and mostly same people posting.
This shows declining interest, I hope kabam notices this and just starts doing things that will bring back excitement.
People are now just going through daily mcoc routine and sooner rather that later will be bored.
Battle Grounds can be this change but it will also go so far if kabam does not account for community feedback, but only in case of BG seems like they would do since it's make or break for the game.
Buff programm has been shelved or put on back burner by kabam as of now.
I definitely understand the sentiment. What the issue is, is the combination of no buffs for 2 months in January and February, then a lacklustre Psychoman which solved nothing, and a non- exciting gamora buff which only solves issues in her kit without adding anything she sorely needs to be a viable champion.
As humans, we like things to be simple, and as such we see something like that and think “well, that’s terrible, it’s over, there’s no buff program now”. But in the grand scheme of things, you can’t just think emotionally about something like this, you need to look at the facts. They had a break in January due to staff getting holiday time and they had a break in February to prepare for the new cadence. That explains that.
They then began a new program, while preparing for the new tuning system for new champs. So they probably decided to go for a safe, easy one first with psychoman. Gamora was supposed to be alongside a second champion that was pulled as mentioned above. Maybe that one was more exciting.
Overall, you’re judging a buff program on 2 out of a potential future 20 or more buffs. Would you judge the previous one on Nova or Ronin? No, they may be the worst of the bunch.
I’m not saying there’s a 100% chance that every future buff, or even any of them, is going to be amazing. I’m just saying it’s illogical to write it off as a failed program after 2 buffs. Especially after two tune ups, which historically change the least. Storm and Deadpool are up soon, they can’t be tune ups so potentially have some exciting ability changes.
Wait and see for a few more rounds of the new buffs. Wait to see more data before seeing a coin flip twice on heads and assuming that’s the only result that’s possible.
I am not saying buffs have to be amazing at all.
It's the change in outlook and effort kabam is now putting into buff programm is significantly less.
Last year buffs were a tradition where we used to get buff reveal and the spotlight etc. Which created excitement also the buffs themselves have just been change is 1-2 numbers that's about it.
Like For gamora they now limit the buff cap I don't see why it's kind of Rebalance than a buff and majority of the community don't even care anymore.
Last year when this kind of treatment was given to Hood there was explosion on the forums, Today I see just one post and that to not a lot of people commenting on.
That’s fair, I’m personally going to be withholding judgement and putting this down to potential teething problems until it gets into the swing of it.
If DPXF and Storm have impressive buffs I think you’ll see the sentiment you talk about swing wildly in the other direction, people will brush off the disappointment of the initial buffs and the hype will return. I just hope, as you do, that Kabam kickstart the program and get it chugging happily along with a couple of exciting buffs, they could really do with boosting the player base sentiment.
Even if the DPXF and Storm buffs are made well and received well, I think there will always be a small portion of players which are fans of X champion who felt they were done dirty. Hopefully this kick-start does its job well, it hasn't had the best track record in recent memory
I'll add two cents worth: For me, the disappointing thing isn't the tweaks to Gamora; it's the slowing down of the buff program (And the lack of a Moon Knight buff for his Disney debut 😢).
Buffing and balancing these champs isn't necessarily easy; and it may be that Gamora will (with hindsight) turn out to be a good example of a buff that becomes well-balanced after follow-up tweaks. Much as @BitterSteel feels about Ebony Maw.
I've tried Gamora after her last buff and it really was problematic stacking ten buffs - it should be a lot easier stacking 8 following this tweak, and she might become a genuinely useful Miss counter to have in your roster. She may not work all the time from the start of the match (e.g. against Ghost), but she may be pretty useful against nodes that Falter you; and there are loads of those about.
Similarly, that True Strike locked behind an SP3 - well, many champs have abilities locked behind an SP3. It won't be great against OG Spidey, but it will work for a variety of other opponents and situations.
The True Strike buff is longer now (14s instead of 9), and gets the same duration increase and Heavy-refresh as her Fury/Cruelty buffs. So it will last up to 22.4 seconds later in the fight, and is fairly easy to refresh.
So (much like Heimdall), once Gamora has gotTrue Strike, she can fairly easily keep it up for the entire remainder of the match.
Can anyone deny that Bypassing Evade, Autoblock and Miss all at once is fairly powerful? Heck, if it wasn't locked behind an SP3, she'd be insane!
This looks like a tweak that will make her utility substantially more accessible. I look forward to trying it out - I just wish it was coming along with similar tweaks for Nova and Guillotine...
I think she’ll be a champ that higher players rank if they really like her, but she’s not going to fill a gap in an end game roster.
That’s ok, not every buff has to be for end game players, I think this buff has done its job of solving problems (subject to testing). But I do hope we get an exciting buff soon! Hawkeye and Joe Fixit were the last ones, 4 months ago now (all of March, Feb, Jan and Dec since they were introduced at the start of December). DPXF and Storm hopefully will carry on the game changing buffs
Agree but she's got like what 3 buffs and she's still not looking as was needed to be
I think she’ll be a champ that higher players rank if they really like her, but she’s not going to fill a gap in an end game roster.
That’s ok, not every buff has to be for end game players, I think this buff has done its job of solving problems (subject to testing). But I do hope we get an exciting buff soon! Hawkeye and Joe Fixit were the last ones, 4 months ago now (all of March, Feb, Jan and Dec since they were introduced at the start of December). DPXF and Storm hopefully will carry on the game changing buffs
Agree but she's got like what 3 buffs and she's still not looking as was needed to be
Needed to be is subjective. There's our vision, and their vision. I'd say with this revision, they took feedback into account. One of the biggest complaints was she wasn't practical to use. That doesn't mean they'll do EVERYTHING we want.
i suppose i'm of the few ... but she's one of my favorite champs ... i liked her last buff and this one makes the damage more accessible and easier to maintain. interested to see her new special animations although i too wish she had gotten more updates in the animation department.
Comments
My God.
Plus, I hate that a champion that needs constant heavys has the longest heavy animation. I had hoped that they would change it. Rip.
That’s a really odd change. 25 furies gives her about 9725 extra attack as a 5/65, and she has a base attack of 2437, making her new attack 12,162 meaning her damage will increase by a max of 5 times her base.
Currently, to get that 9725 attack bonus, Gamora needs 16 fury buffs. So Gamora’s max damage is now capped as though at 16 of her current fury buffs.
Gamora still hits pretty hard with 16 fury buffs, but it is honestly a really weird change.
Here is a video of a rank 1, suicides and synergies included Gamora. She has 20% attack and 20% fury + cruelty potency and also a 15% attack boost from white mags pre fight.
At around 2:45 she gets 16 fury buffs, so this is what max cap fury buffs gamora will look like as a rank 1, suicide and synergy and wags pre fight champ. Also bear in mind the armour break is active here, so this is pretty much max damage.
Mediums crit / non crit: 22476 /4610
Lights crit / non crit: 14408 / 3078
Clearly more than respectable damage, it’s just odd that a cap has been put in place.
I do wish she got more new animations, though.
Make one like DDHK for example, 2 hits allows you to chain into specials, but it’s also nice and quick to let you get on with building your buffs
So before, it was a 35% chance per hit, and you needed 10 buffs. That meant you’d need an expected 29 medium or light hits to get your miss counter (0.35* 29 = 10.15) . Add in heavy attacks every two combos or so, and you’ve got over 40 hits before you can counter miss.
Now, you only need an expected 13 medium or light hits to counter miss (0.65 *13 = 8.45). So two 5 hit combos and a heavy, then MLL for about 17 hits including the heavy will on average get you your miss counter. Is this perfect? No, but it’s a hell of an improvement by a factor of 3 times less expected hits. And in my view, aside from the buff duration increase, it’s probably the only real improvement this buff is showing.
This part was fine in my view, what isn’t as fine overall, is that she isn’t getting anything else added. She does need something else to make her buff exciting, and on that level, I’ll agree with you it’s a weak buff
Maybe the first two buffs of the program being small tune ups is a sign of the future of the program post change, maybe they’re a shaky start of a really positive program.
2 samples isn’t a lot to choose from in the grand scheme of things - especially two tune ups that are definitely safety options from Kabam’s point of view. I mean, imagine trying to judge the previous program on nova and ronin.
I definitely agree it’s not the greatest start, but just look at two other confirmed champions - Deadpool X force and Storm OG. There is no chance they are going to be tune ups. I think that’s where we can actually get a good look at how this program is going to turn out. I’m personally trying to stay optimistic for these moderate/overhaul champs in the future. If only for the sake of my duped DPXF 6*
To be fair, they have explained why you haven’t seen anything on the new balance update program, Omega sentinel and Cap Britain aren’t going to be subject to it, instead, Black Cat and Scorpion next month are going to be the first ones that will use the new program.
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/298622/delaying-champion-attributes-and-champion-balance-updates#latest
Additionally, we were also supposed to get another buff this month (most rumours suggest Red Guardian) which was pulled due to real world events - maybe that was an amazing tune up that would have changed our opinion on the update. Or maybe Black widow OG or Deadly origins may have gotten an overhaul or moderate/tune up respectively. Who knows.
So to answer your question how long until we question if there’s something wrong internally: in my view, longer than two buffs, and long enough to judge how the new program works for new champs. I.e. once we’ve seen how it affects at least a few months worth of champions. And long enough to see what the new attribute system looks like and if it would help newer players.
There are 3 aspects here: buffs, attributes and new champ tuning. The first, we’ve only seen 2. The second, we haven’t seen at all. The third, we haven’t seen at all. To me, that seems way too short a time to judge a new program as a failure, or to judge an internal issue.
As humans, we like things to be simple, and as such we see something like that and think “well, that’s terrible, it’s over, there’s no buff program now”. But in the grand scheme of things, you can’t just think emotionally about something like this, you need to look at the facts. They had a break in January due to staff getting holiday time and they had a break in February to prepare for the new cadence. That explains that.
They then began a new program, while preparing for the new tuning system for new champs. So they probably decided to go for a safe, easy one first with psychoman. Gamora was supposed to be alongside a second champion that was pulled as mentioned above. Maybe that one was more exciting.
Overall, you’re judging a buff program on 2 out of a potential future 20 or more buffs. Would you judge the previous one on Nova or Ronin? No, they may be the worst of the bunch.
I’m not saying there’s a 100% chance that every future buff, or even any of them, is going to be amazing. I’m just saying it’s illogical to write it off as a failed program after 2 buffs. Especially after two tune ups, which historically change the least. Storm and Deadpool are up soon, they can’t be tune ups so potentially have some exciting ability changes.
Wait and see for a few more rounds of the new buffs. Wait to see more data before seeing a coin flip twice on heads and assuming that’s the only result that’s possible.
If DPXF and Storm have impressive buffs I think you’ll see the sentiment you talk about swing wildly in the other direction, people will brush off the disappointment of the initial buffs and the hype will return. I just hope, as you do, that Kabam kickstart the program and get it chugging happily along with a couple of exciting buffs, they could really do with boosting the player base sentiment.
Hopefully this kick-start does its job well, it hasn't had the best track record in recent memory
For me, the disappointing thing isn't the tweaks to Gamora; it's the slowing down of the buff program (And the lack of a Moon Knight buff for his Disney debut 😢).
Buffing and balancing these champs isn't necessarily easy; and it may be that Gamora will
(with hindsight) turn out to be a good example of a buff that becomes well-balanced after follow-up tweaks. Much as @BitterSteel feels about Ebony Maw.
I've tried Gamora after her last buff and it really was problematic stacking ten buffs - it should be a lot easier stacking 8 following this tweak, and she might become a genuinely useful Miss counter to have in your roster. She may not work all the time from the start of the match (e.g. against Ghost), but she may be pretty useful against nodes that Falter you; and there are loads of those about.
Similarly, that True Strike locked behind an SP3 - well, many champs have abilities locked behind an SP3. It won't be great against OG Spidey, but it will work for a variety of other opponents and situations.
The True Strike buff is longer now (14s instead of 9), and gets the same duration increase and Heavy-refresh as her Fury/Cruelty buffs. So it will last up to 22.4 seconds later in the fight, and is fairly easy to refresh.
So (much like Heimdall), once Gamora has got True Strike, she can fairly easily keep it up for the entire remainder of the match.
Can anyone deny that Bypassing Evade, Autoblock and Miss all at once is fairly powerful? Heck, if it wasn't locked behind an SP3, she'd be insane!
This looks like a tweak that will make her utility substantially more accessible. I look forward to trying it out - I just wish it was coming along with similar tweaks for Nova and Guillotine...
(I still hate her heavy reach though…)