AQ map 6 Changes - Thoughts?

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  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,856 Guardian
    Crine60 said:

    Hi everybody,

    I want to first apologize for the late response. It's been a very busy time here, and while we haven't been able to reply, we have been keeping up.

    The team has been actively discussing your feedback, especially around the Dual Class nodes. We don't have anything to share at this time, or know what/if action is required, but wanted you to know that your feedback has not been ignored. We will update you all if there is news to share.

    What about map 5? Most of the complaints here apply to map 5 as well. The enemies are newer and much harder with less good options to fight them and still handle other enemies on other paths, the nodes are harder, you buffed the attack and health boosts on the enemies and they aren't throwing specials easily which is killing us with degen mods because they hide behind block until you try to heavy and then they attack you and you eat a combo or special.

    You said you were making things easier to encourage people to go to higher maps but you made it harder instead and have stopped aq potion compensation as well which makes it even worse. Many people both here and in my alliance have said the same things about map 5.
    The devs are aware that there are, to admittedly a lesser degree, analogous difficulty complaints about Map 5.

    I'm taking the far right on Map 5 with a low alt: I'm aware the defender difficulty has gone up ... a bit.
  • Dart1981Dart1981 Member Posts: 232 ★★★
    Just in case it hasn’t been mentioned (I couldn’t see it further up through the messages) but I have been using peni parker (R4 5*) and R2 6* mysterio combo for the power snack/poison tech/skill path. Along with Kingpin for phase 1 and phase 3. Both those techs do not have armour and are poison immune. Have only tended to use items when parry or dex failed (or I failed 🤣). It’s a good combo and fun to use mysterio again
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,856 Guardian
    Dart1981 said:

    Just in case it hasn’t been mentioned (I couldn’t see it further up through the messages) but I have been using peni parker (R4 5*) and R2 6* mysterio combo for the power snack/poison tech/skill path. Along with Kingpin for phase 1 and phase 3. Both those techs do not have armour and are poison immune. Have only tended to use items when parry or dex failed (or I failed 🤣). It’s a good combo and fun to use mysterio again

    My current Map 6 team is 5/65 Overseer, 5/65 Negative, and R3 Aegon. I ramp the hell out of Aegon on path 1 in stage 1 and he becomes my backup for stage two because he can then shrug the poison. I use Overseer in general for the **** path in stage 2, especially when iBom shows up (Overseer heals off of iBoms debuffs which is hilarious). Mr. Negative is there for the Ebony Maw mini, who seems to have taken up residence on the mini nodes and refuses to leave his Airbnb.
  • Dart1981Dart1981 Member Posts: 232 ★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Dart1981 said:

    Just in case it hasn’t been mentioned (I couldn’t see it further up through the messages) but I have been using peni parker (R4 5*) and R2 6* mysterio combo for the power snack/poison tech/skill path. Along with Kingpin for phase 1 and phase 3. Both those techs do not have armour and are poison immune. Have only tended to use items when parry or dex failed (or I failed 🤣). It’s a good combo and fun to use mysterio again

    My current Map 6 team is 5/65 Overseer, 5/65 Negative, and R3 Aegon. I ramp the hell out of Aegon on path 1 in stage 1 and he becomes my backup for stage two because he can then shrug the poison. I use Overseer in general for the **** path in stage 2, especially when iBom shows up (Overseer heals off of iBoms debuffs which is hilarious). Mr. Negative is there for the Ebony Maw mini, who seems to have taken up residence on the mini nodes and refuses to leave his Airbnb.
    Right, that ibom is the toughest fight, Especially if he buttons up and won’t throw the sp1. The sp2 into the block is pretty terrible into my R4 peni. Or worse, dexing to bait specials and he refuses all until SP3
  • ScottyKnowsScottyKnows Member Posts: 113
    I like it, even with class specific nodes. 6 paths in section 1 and 2 which allows enough back up to stay healed and ready for section 3. I’ve gone two weeks with 0 items we run 6/6/5
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,856 Guardian
    TyEdge said:

    I think a big problem is what I’ll call the War Games Hypothesis. If anyone remembers that nearly 40-year old movie, the only way to win is not to play.

    Due to the glory store being structured the way it is, the reality of the game is that the most efficient decision is the hardest AQ you can effectively complete itemless. Once you’re buying any potions, you’re losing more than the marginal glory you gain for finishing your lane.

    It’s a poor setup but I don’t have a clear solution.

    That's kind of always been the most efficient strategy for everything in general, and I don't think it is inherently a problem. That's independent from whether the difficulty is set correctly. In fact, as the compensation potions have demonstrated, if it is too easy to burn items to do content, this can mask problems with the content until the costs change.

    It should be as difficult as it is supposed to be and no more, not easy enough to overpower with items that it doesn't matter if it is more difficult than it is supposed to be.
  • TyEdgeTyEdge Member Posts: 3,130 ★★★★★
    edited May 2022
    DNA3000 said:

    TyEdge said:

    I think a big problem is what I’ll call the War Games Hypothesis. If anyone remembers that nearly 40-year old movie, the only way to win is not to play.

    Due to the glory store being structured the way it is, the reality of the game is that the most efficient decision is the hardest AQ you can effectively complete itemless. Once you’re buying any potions, you’re losing more than the marginal glory you gain for finishing your lane.

    It’s a poor setup but I don’t have a clear solution.

    That's kind of always been the most efficient strategy for everything in general, and I don't think it is inherently a problem. That's independent from whether the difficulty is set correctly. In fact, as the compensation potions have demonstrated, if it is too easy to burn items to do content, this can mask problems with the content until the costs change.

    It should be as difficult as it is supposed to be and no more, not easy enough to overpower with items that it doesn't matter if it is more difficult than it is supposed to be.
    Here’s where I have to disagree - putting aside compensation, because we’re talking about a post-comp world, the cost of potions has remained largely static while the cost of materials has decreased significantly.

    In season 9, I was paying 2850 for 3 buys of t5b. That number is now 1050, I believe.

    Before, buying potions to help the group made sense and didn’t really cut your ability to gain resources. Because potion cost remains high but rankup resources are abundant, the rational decision now is to screw your teammates, especially on day 5 when it doesn’t affect your baseline score for future days.

    Item use is capped anyway for AQ. It’d be better if potions were affordable. It’s a little reminiscent of the very old war system where you were better off not playing and not dying than trying and failing (albeit for different reasons)
  • Crine60Crine60 Member Posts: 1,446 ★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Crine60 said:

    Hi everybody,

    I want to first apologize for the late response. It's been a very busy time here, and while we haven't been able to reply, we have been keeping up.

    The team has been actively discussing your feedback, especially around the Dual Class nodes. We don't have anything to share at this time, or know what/if action is required, but wanted you to know that your feedback has not been ignored. We will update you all if there is news to share.

    What about map 5? Most of the complaints here apply to map 5 as well. The enemies are newer and much harder with less good options to fight them and still handle other enemies on other paths, the nodes are harder, you buffed the attack and health boosts on the enemies and they aren't throwing specials easily which is killing us with degen mods because they hide behind block until you try to heavy and then they attack you and you eat a combo or special.

    You said you were making things easier to encourage people to go to higher maps but you made it harder instead and have stopped aq potion compensation as well which makes it even worse. Many people both here and in my alliance have said the same things about map 5.
    The devs are aware that there are, to admittedly a lesser degree, analogous difficulty complaints about Map 5.

    I'm taking the far right on Map 5 with a low alt: I'm aware the defender difficulty has gone up ... a bit.
    Since you have direct contact with Kabam do you know the reasoning behind their patently absurd claim here on the forums that they had to increase the node difficulty to compensate for how much easier it would be since they stopped hiding the enemies' identities and that it would basically balance out? Everyone who put literally 2 seconds of thought into that premise would know that removing the hidden enemies didn't make it an iota easier because after a short time of a new map being released you can find the enemies with a simple Google search so all it was was an annoyance but not a difficulty factor (maybe for new players at very low maps but I'm doubt map 4/5/6+ players don't know to Google game info). It obviously didn't balance out anything, all it was was a straight difficulty increase as far as the nodes and identities went.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,856 Guardian
    Crine60 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Crine60 said:

    Hi everybody,

    I want to first apologize for the late response. It's been a very busy time here, and while we haven't been able to reply, we have been keeping up.

    The team has been actively discussing your feedback, especially around the Dual Class nodes. We don't have anything to share at this time, or know what/if action is required, but wanted you to know that your feedback has not been ignored. We will update you all if there is news to share.

    What about map 5? Most of the complaints here apply to map 5 as well. The enemies are newer and much harder with less good options to fight them and still handle other enemies on other paths, the nodes are harder, you buffed the attack and health boosts on the enemies and they aren't throwing specials easily which is killing us with degen mods because they hide behind block until you try to heavy and then they attack you and you eat a combo or special.

    You said you were making things easier to encourage people to go to higher maps but you made it harder instead and have stopped aq potion compensation as well which makes it even worse. Many people both here and in my alliance have said the same things about map 5.
    The devs are aware that there are, to admittedly a lesser degree, analogous difficulty complaints about Map 5.

    I'm taking the far right on Map 5 with a low alt: I'm aware the defender difficulty has gone up ... a bit.
    Since you have direct contact with Kabam do you know the reasoning behind their patently absurd claim here on the forums that they had to increase the node difficulty to compensate for how much easier it would be since they stopped hiding the enemies' identities and that it would basically balance out? Everyone who put literally 2 seconds of thought into that premise would know that removing the hidden enemies didn't make it an iota easier because after a short time of a new map being released you can find the enemies with a simple Google search so all it was was an annoyance but not a difficulty factor (maybe for new players at very low maps but I'm doubt map 4/5/6+ players don't know to Google game info). It obviously didn't balance out anything, all it was was a straight difficulty increase as far as the nodes and identities went.
    I don't recall Kabam making that case here on the forums. Do you have a link to this post?
  • Badass84Badass84 Member Posts: 317 ★★★
    TyEdge said:

    It plays like a tightrope, specifically the skill/tech/poison/power snack. You can’t bring champs immune to nullify without the attack penalty and/or poison. Almost all the meaningful power control is poisonable, though g99 has been solid for me. I really need hood to ensure a shrug from kingpin or else I’m screwed.

    Even KP is not always perfect. Mine is a 6*R3 Sig200 so you are very fast at 8 Debuffs and then? Your buff is shrugged off...
  • _Barabbas__Barabbas_ Member Posts: 135
    Dart1981 said:

    Just in case it hasn’t been mentioned (I couldn’t see it further up through the messages) but I have been using peni parker (R4 5*) and R2 6* mysterio combo for the power snack/poison tech/skill path. Along with Kingpin for phase 1 and phase 3. Both those techs do not have armour and are poison immune. Have only tended to use items when parry or dex failed (or I failed 🤣). It’s a good combo and fun to use mysterio again

    Not a bad solution but not everyone has those specific champs. Also, there should be more that 3-4 options.
  • GoldenDadGoldenDad Member Posts: 98
    Looks like the 4th round of AQ is starting again with no changes to make it more playable, with all the same issues, and Kabam are still ‘looking into it’.

    I get the impression that they are saying to us that we have to play it as it is, change to an lower Map, or retire from the game. It’s been about 22 days since this thread started, which gives me little hope that any change will occur in the near future.
  • Badass84Badass84 Member Posts: 317 ★★★
    As expected. The combination of nodes and opponents on path 1 is just awful.
  • TyEdgeTyEdge Member Posts: 3,130 ★★★★★
    Badass84 said:

    As expected. The combination of nodes and opponents on path 1 is just awful.

    I don’t miss it.
  • Revenge_of_the_NerfsRevenge_of_the_Nerfs Member Posts: 102
    My 5-year old alliance just folded due in part to these issues. We ran 88866 and 88886, but cutting off free items brought us to an irreconcilable breaking point.

    Do we keep running Map 8? It’s much better designed and for the boss-killer type players it takes fewer items. It’s fun! But it does cost some items. And it does cost tickets.

    Or do we run all Map 6? Bad design with unreasonably tricky paths. Costs more items than Map 8 for the boss-killer type players because they have rough paths (e.g., skill/tech) and are very limited on roster construction if they want to bring a miniboss counter too. And really not fun.

    We couldn’t figure things out so about 5 players retired to AQ/AW-optional alliances or quit altogether, and the rest split between a couple of Map 7/8 and Map 6 alliances.

    It was a shame. We’ve been together for a long time but our style of mixing casual gameplay with a few challenging days just doesn’t work with these maps. (And … off the topic of this thread … AW was a factor too … AW has gotten too complicated for us, I think.)
  • TheTalentsTheTalents Member Posts: 2,254 ★★★★★
    I love the changes. Props to Kabam for making the change.
  • Yagami9999Yagami9999 Member Posts: 152
    For today's map 6 Invisible Woman

    Lane 2 is
    Stellar Atomics - cosmic/science only
    Flux dispersal - dispersal charges reduces damage by 5% each stack unless struck by heavy

    was fighting fine until i fought that Tigra with Cosmic Ghost Rider
    after a lot (and i mean a lot) of heavy attacks, her flux dispersal is still maxed at 20

    is it due to CGR match up?
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