Dragon Man has been nerfed / patched after two years?

Thorki

A lot of people in the community know about Dragon Man’s ability to regen the damage you would have taken if you dex an attack while unstoppable. There’s countless posts praising this “hidden ability” on the forums, reddit, and youtube. Here are a couple:

https://youtu.be/aafnguD0OK0

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/262599/dragon-mans-regen-is-criminally-under-rated

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/289057/why-is-dragon-man-good

Everyone who discussed the ability seemed to enjoy it, it was a good part of Dragon Man’s kit and wasn’t overpowered (most don’t even consider Dragon Man to be A tier, let alone S tier for mystics). We’ll, I’ve tested all today and the ability is gone. When Dexing and unstoppable, you no longer regen. I’m perplexed as to why Kabam effectively nerfed Dragon Man without so much as a word. I think they should either undo the nerf or give out rank down tickets. I for one have Dragon Man as one of my 4 R3’s simply because of his powerful regen ability that has been nerfed into the ground.

CoatHang3r

How does the description read? Pretty sure it doesn’t say regen the damage he would have received while dodging an attack while unstoppable. People have known this was a bug since his release and kept it quiet or hidden while enjoying it but that doesn’t make it a feature.



Yeah, regens hit damage received, that is crystal clear. You can’t argue dexing an attack and regening was in keeping with the description.

Thorki

CoatHang3r said:

How does the description read? Pretty sure it doesn’t say regen the damage he would have received while dodging an attack while unstoppable. People have known this was a bug since his release and kept it quite or hidden while enjoying it but that doesn’t make it a feature.

Yeah, I know it’s not in his description. Doesn’t change the fact that it’s been in his kit for two years. That’s practically the definition of “de facto”. I’m also partially discussing the fact that this nerf was released and they didn’t even address it in the patch notes, which is where they always mentioned every fixed “bug” with character. Mole man nerf part two.

Deacon

well i never used this as i never knew about it lol so i guess i can't say bummer but i would've liked to use it i suppose lol

Demonzfyre

Thorki said:

CoatHang3r said:

How does the description read? Pretty sure it doesn’t say regen the damage he would have received while dodging an attack while unstoppable. People have known this was a bug since his release and kept it quite or hidden while enjoying it but that doesn’t make it a feature.

Yeah, I know it’s not in his description. Doesn’t change the fact that it’s been in his kit for two years. That’s practically the definition of “de facto”. I’m also partially discussing the fact that this nerf was released and they didn’t even address it in the patch notes, which is where they always mentioned every fixed “bug” with character. Mole man nerf part two.

Or... When they fixed something else it fixed this bug. Y'all have got to stop referring to bug fixes as nerfs. It could have been a knock on bug from some sort of interaction and that's all. I've had DM since he came out and had no idea what you described is a thing.

Mole man wasn't a nerf either. Nerfs are changing written abilities making them lesser.

KnightNvrEnding

I loved that regen too😩😂 Kabam always taking the fun out of things lol

Thorki

Demonzfyre said:

Thorki said:

CoatHang3r said:

How does the description read? Pretty sure it doesn’t say regen the damage he would have received while dodging an attack while unstoppable. People have known this was a bug since his release and kept it quite or hidden while enjoying it but that doesn’t make it a feature.

Yeah, I know it’s not in his description. Doesn’t change the fact that it’s been in his kit for two years. That’s practically the definition of “de facto”. I’m also partially discussing the fact that this nerf was released and they didn’t even address it in the patch notes, which is where they always mentioned every fixed “bug” with character. Mole man nerf part two.

Or... When they fixed something else it fixed this bug. Y'all have got to stop referring to bug fixes as nerfs. It could have been a knock on bug from some sort of interaction and that's all. I've had DM since he came out and had no idea what you described is a thing.

Mole man wasn't a nerf either. Nerfs are changing written abilities making them lesser.

It is a nerf. Anything that makes a character in a game less powerful is a nerf. No reason it has to be a written ability, take Overwatch for example where no ability values are written down but are adjusted as “nerfs” or “buffs” all the time.

In effect, it’s a nerf.

LeNoirFaineant

I don't have a problem with them fixing a bug, even if it has been two years. One could argue that it would have been better to change the description to match the way the champ was actually working than change the champ. That's what they did with Domino as I recall. Regardless, if they fixed the bug without notice and without mention in the patch notes, that's a problem. This is the sort of thing that feeds the "silent nerf" threads.

Wicket329

Thorki said:

Demonzfyre said:

Thorki said:

CoatHang3r said:

How does the description read? Pretty sure it doesn’t say regen the damage he would have received while dodging an attack while unstoppable. People have known this was a bug since his release and kept it quite or hidden while enjoying it but that doesn’t make it a feature.

Yeah, I know it’s not in his description. Doesn’t change the fact that it’s been in his kit for two years. That’s practically the definition of “de facto”. I’m also partially discussing the fact that this nerf was released and they didn’t even address it in the patch notes, which is where they always mentioned every fixed “bug” with character. Mole man nerf part two.

Or... When they fixed something else it fixed this bug. Y'all have got to stop referring to bug fixes as nerfs. It could have been a knock on bug from some sort of interaction and that's all. I've had DM since he came out and had no idea what you described is a thing.

Mole man wasn't a nerf either. Nerfs are changing written abilities making them lesser.

It is a nerf. Anything that makes a character in a game less powerful is a nerf. No reason it has to be a written ability, take Overwatch for example where no ability values are written down but are adjusted as “nerfs” or “buffs” all the time.

In effect, it’s a nerf.

Yeah so that’s not correct. Blade never had his kit touched but nobody would say he is as powerful as he was when he was released. Are you arguing that he was nerfed too?

Dragon Man was not working as intended. Obviously. And as we learned from the whole Mole Man debacle, it is the intention of the design team that is paramount, regardless of anything else. So Kabam making this change, assuming it was intentional and not a knock on of a different bug getting fixed, is consistent.

The one thing I’d say is that if this was intentional, it should have been in the patch notes.

Also, kinda tangential but Overwatch values are absolutely written down, they’re just not accessible in game. Values are all over the patch noted though.

CyborgNinja135

A bug was fixed. It's not a nerf. He was never meant to regen when you dex

AverageDesi

It's a hitbox thing. There's a bug going around where omega sentinel autoblockd when you dex as if you would have gotten hit. Hood gains bullets when you dec as if you missed. Soemthing tells me there's going to be more issues

GroundedWisdom

Without getting into the semantics about nerf/fix, there is no shelf life on a bug. There's no period that it expires as a bug. Some things are fixed immediately, some take time, some take a long time. Regardless, if it's not intended, it's always grounds to be fixed at any time.

Demonzfyre

Thorki said:

Demonzfyre said:

Thorki said:

CoatHang3r said:

How does the description read? Pretty sure it doesn’t say regen the damage he would have received while dodging an attack while unstoppable. People have known this was a bug since his release and kept it quite or hidden while enjoying it but that doesn’t make it a feature.

Yeah, I know it’s not in his description. Doesn’t change the fact that it’s been in his kit for two years. That’s practically the definition of “de facto”. I’m also partially discussing the fact that this nerf was released and they didn’t even address it in the patch notes, which is where they always mentioned every fixed “bug” with character. Mole man nerf part two.

Or... When they fixed something else it fixed this bug. Y'all have got to stop referring to bug fixes as nerfs. It could have been a knock on bug from some sort of interaction and that's all. I've had DM since he came out and had no idea what you described is a thing.

Mole man wasn't a nerf either. Nerfs are changing written abilities making them lesser.

It is a nerf. Anything that makes a character in a game less powerful is a nerf. No reason it has to be a written ability, take Overwatch for example where no ability values are written down but are adjusted as “nerfs” or “buffs” all the time.

In effect, it’s a nerf.

Overwatch and MCOC can't be compared in the same way like that. Games like overwatch and COD nerf or buff values of weapons. These values aren't in the game as Wicket said but usually available on the companys site sometimes but always included in patch notes. Like when the Krig was buffed, they explain which values make it better like bullet velocity or attachment buffs/nerfs.

MCOC has champion abilities that are written in the game because that's how this game works to understand the mechanics of the game.

Fixing bugs are never nerfs or buffs, they are just bug fixes. Warzone 2 fixed a bug that allowed people to earn insane xp from buying armor plates at the buy stations, does that mean they nerfed buy stations and armor plates?

Unknown

This content has been removed.

AverageDesi

Thorki said:

Demonzfyre said:

Thorki said:

CoatHang3r said:

How does the description read? Pretty sure it doesn’t say regen the damage he would have received while dodging an attack while unstoppable. People have known this was a bug since his release and kept it quite or hidden while enjoying it but that doesn’t make it a feature.

Yeah, I know it’s not in his description. Doesn’t change the fact that it’s been in his kit for two years. That’s practically the definition of “de facto”. I’m also partially discussing the fact that this nerf was released and they didn’t even address it in the patch notes, which is where they always mentioned every fixed “bug” with character. Mole man nerf part two.

Or... When they fixed something else it fixed this bug. Y'all have got to stop referring to bug fixes as nerfs. It could have been a knock on bug from some sort of interaction and that's all. I've had DM since he came out and had no idea what you described is a thing.

Mole man wasn't a nerf either. Nerfs are changing written abilities making them lesser.

It is a nerf. Anything that makes a character in a game less powerful is a nerf. No reason it has to be a written ability, take Overwatch for example where no ability values are written down but are adjusted as “nerfs” or “buffs” all the time.

In effect, it’s a nerf.

Me and @Demonzfyre had a bigg ass argument before regarding this. I was in your position. But have since learned i was wrong. Nerf is not for bug fixes. Nerfs are for intentional mechanics that are weakened for any reason. Shang Chi was a Nerf. Namor was a Nerf.

PapaMidnite007

Hmmm I didnt know he had regen lol

Ultragamer

Thorki said:

Demonzfyre said:

Thorki said:

CoatHang3r said:

How does the description read? Pretty sure it doesn’t say regen the damage he would have received while dodging an attack while unstoppable. People have known this was a bug since his release and kept it quite or hidden while enjoying it but that doesn’t make it a feature.

Yeah, I know it’s not in his description. Doesn’t change the fact that it’s been in his kit for two years. That’s practically the definition of “de facto”. I’m also partially discussing the fact that this nerf was released and they didn’t even address it in the patch notes, which is where they always mentioned every fixed “bug” with character. Mole man nerf part two.

Or... When they fixed something else it fixed this bug. Y'all have got to stop referring to bug fixes as nerfs. It could have been a knock on bug from some sort of interaction and that's all. I've had DM since he came out and had no idea what you described is a thing.

Mole man wasn't a nerf either. Nerfs are changing written abilities making them lesser.

It is a nerf. Anything that makes a character in a game less powerful is a nerf. No reason it has to be a written ability, take Overwatch for example where no ability values are written down but are adjusted as “nerfs” or “buffs” all the time.

In effect, it’s a nerf.

A nerf means they removed something from his kit and fix is something That wasn’t there that got taken out because it never was intended to be there

Kerneas

So to wrap it up, they fixed a bug without notice, that makes a character slightly worse. Bugged version performed fine, now it will be a tad bit less useful.

I don't like it done this way tbh

AverageDesi

Kerneas said:

So to wrap it up, they fixed a bug without notice, that makes a character slightly worse. Bugged version performed fine, now it will be a tad bit less useful.

I don't like it done this way tbh

You want them to provide notice on when they fix bugs ?bruh what? Like they have a fix but let them just wait a week so that everyone knows it's going to be fixed.

Imagine if they had a solution for the input issues and they say ", hey guys, we have a fix we can implement right now but just to avoid whiplash, we're going to wait a week so everyone knows it's going to be fixed".

People would riot

Colinwhitworth69

It was a low priority bug, apparently.

SirGamesBond

It was a known hidden Bug which is now Fixed!!

Have used ("exploited" hehe) this regen back in map7 days on gimme path. But its years ago in the past.
Most recently many people got the use out of this was against EOP xbones.

HiVel

Never knew that this regen feature existed for Dragon Man. Whatever this patch was (not in the notes) also affected The Hoods ability to chain an invisibility by holding a dash to turn invisible, launch sp2, then when the timer from 1st invisibility cools down after 6 seconds dash back again and hold to stay invisible. This was not a bug but using the invisibility timer and refresh as it was/is written.

KABAM please ctrl+z

Kerneas

AverageDesi said:

Kerneas said:

So to wrap it up, they fixed a bug without notice, that makes a character slightly worse. Bugged version performed fine, now it will be a tad bit less useful.

I don't like it done this way tbh

You want them to provide notice on when they fix bugs ?bruh what? Like they have a fix but let them just wait a week so that everyone knows it's going to be fixed.

Imagine if they had a solution for the input issues and they say ", hey guys, we have a fix we can implement right now but just to avoid whiplash, we're going to wait a week so everyone knows it's going to be fixed".

People would riot

I want them to say "we fixed this, that and also this, done".

solopolo

Me just sitting here laughing at how consistent responses are to bugfixes. Can't imagine these are the same people who fought with their lives over the moleman fix.

altavista

"I ranked up a champion based on something that is not stated in their kit" is never a good reason for rank down tickets or compensation.

World Eater

Did Kabam document that Dragon man was bugged over the last 2 years or no ?

If not, that’s pretty bad communication

The whole “not in his description” thing loses merit when you consider OG daredevils ability description never mentioned, or wasn’t updated for years, to match his ability to bypass miss. In game descriptions aren’t always clear , correct or listed.

Look at Galans L2 right now. How many threads & posts have been made asking if his ability to incinerate thru block is intended? No answer from Kabam on that.

CyborgNinja135

World Eater said:

Did Kabam document that Dragon man was bugged over the last 2 years or no ?

If not, that’s pretty bad communication

The whole “not in his description” thing loses merit when you consider OG daredevils ability description never mentioned, or wasn’t updated for years, to match his ability to bypass miss. In game descriptions aren’t always clear , correct or listed.

Look at Galans L2 right now. How many threads & posts have been made asking if his ability to incinerate thru block is intended? No answer from Kabam on that.

Daredevil's was an easter egg and it was later added to his description.

Dragon Man's abilities clearly state that he regenerates hit damage received. When you dex you don't receive any hit damage so it's obviously a bug

CosmicGuardian

While I do understand that it can be frustrating that this bug was fixed without any notice, I don’t think I’d go so far to say it was a nerf. Has it in any way impacted any major part of DM’s kit? No. His abilities read that while his unstoppable is active he regens 85% of hit damage. So why should he be regenerating damage on dex when he hasn’t received any damage. This was clearly a bug, and they have every right to go back and fix a bug, regardless of how long the bug has been around.

This is the first time I’m ever hearing about this happening, so it’s not like it’s the primary reason why like and use DM. Changing it doesn’t really affect the champ’s performance whatsoever so other than it being unannounced I don’t understand the frustration here.

AverageDesi

World Eater said:

Did Kabam document that Dragon man was bugged over the last 2 years or no ?

If not, that’s pretty bad communication

The whole “not in his description” thing loses merit when you consider OG daredevils ability description never mentioned, or wasn’t updated for years, to match his ability to bypass miss. In game descriptions aren’t always clear , correct or listed.

Look at Galans L2 right now. How many threads & posts have been made asking if his ability to incinerate thru block is intended? No answer from Kabam on that.

Yay. Crossbones is back.

Kabam not responding to bug posts isn't something new so it's kinda redundant. (Cries with archangel)

Dragonmans bug is an issue with order of calculation. And omega sentinel, Hood, Sunspot Ghost and all suffer from it.

World Eater

CyborgNinja135 said:

World Eater said:

Did Kabam document that Dragon man was bugged over the last 2 years or no ?

If not, that’s pretty bad communication

The whole “not in his description” thing loses merit when you consider OG daredevils ability description never mentioned, or wasn’t updated for years, to match his ability to bypass miss. In game descriptions aren’t always clear , correct or listed.

Look at Galans L2 right now. How many threads & posts have been made asking if his ability to incinerate thru block is intended? No answer from Kabam on that.

Daredevil's was an easter egg and it was later added to his description.

Dragon Man's abilities clearly state that he regenerates hit damage received. When you dex you don't receive any hit damage so it's obviously a bug

With all due respect , there should be no “easter egg” abilities. Something is either an intended ability or it isn’t ; no ability should be hidden.

I’m not bothered by the fix to dragon man. Just trying to highlight poor communication from Kabam when stuff like this happens.

Which brings me back to Galans L2 incinerating thru block . Not listed in his abilities but it’s happening and no response from Kabam. As always , we just want to know what is or what is not intended.

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/311797/is-galan-supposed-to-be-able-to-do-this#latest

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/319354/should-galan-be-placing-incinerates-from-sp2-even-if-the-hits-dont-connect-am-i-missing-something

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/321609/galan-s-sp2-incinerates


https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2187263#Comment_2187263

CoatHang3r

World Eater said:

With all due respect , there should be no “easter egg” abilities. Something is either an intended ability or it isn’t ; no ability should be hidden.

Good news on the Daredevil “Easter egg” front it was a documented change in the patch notes in Feb 2021 when it was added to his kit. Yes the in game description took some time to reflect the new ability iirc? But it wasn’t hidden and didn’t “take years” since it hasn’t even been years.