There's only one BGs, and it's available for a range of Players, and they're all at valid points in the game. Just because there's a competitive aspect to the game, doesn't mean the top automatically owns it.
Nobody is saying the top owns it. What they're saying is the top accounts should be at the top, if a ton of lower accounts are the top then something is wrong.
There's only one BGs, and it's available for a range of Players, and they're all at valid points in the game. Just because there's a competitive aspect to the game, doesn't mean the top automatically owns it.
Nobody is saying the top owns it. What they're saying is the top accounts should be at the top, if a ton of lower accounts are the top then something is wrong.
I'm not disputing that. At least not directly. Although I support the top being on top based on performance, and not as a given because of other areas of the game. I don't really support entitlement in a competition. My main point was in response to a separate "noob" competition, just because people want a fair chance starting out. I find that to be particularly crass. I support people having Rewards they earn, and I support people having Rewards appropriate to where they're at. I don't support the inane right to bulldoze people at the early stages of the competition because "We're bigger and it's the same pool of Rewards.". That's just the idea that anyone with the highest Title has the right to inhibit a fair competition because they're bigger. Which is ironic, considering they claim Rosters shouldn't matter. That's neither here nor there. My response means that the top doesn't have the right to oust lower Players out of the competition entirely. That's just self-absorbed, to be honest. There's enough room in a competition for people to start out reasonably, earn their way as far up as their abilities allow them to, ergo whatever Rewards their skills allow them to earn, and meet their end organically. It doesn't have to be the source of frustration for them just because of some predestined assumption that the biggest comes first.
Players with 14k and lower prestige should match within themseleves And for playing amongst them. Their season rewards should be 1 PHC and no tokens. Here here
There's only one BGs, and it's available for a range of Players, and they're all at valid points in the game. Just because there's a competitive aspect to the game, doesn't mean the top automatically owns it.
Nobody is saying the top owns it. What they're saying is the top accounts should be at the top, if a ton of lower accounts are the top then something is wrong.
I'm not disputing that. At least not directly. Although I support the top being on top based on performance, and not as a given because of other areas of the game. I don't really support entitlement in a competition. My main point was in response to a separate "noob" competition, just because people want a fair chance starting out. I find that to be particularly crass. I support people having Rewards they earn, and I support people having Rewards appropriate to where they're at. I don't support the inane right to bulldoze people at the early stages of the competition because "We're bigger and it's the same pool of Rewards.". That's just the idea that anyone with the highest Title has the right to inhibit a fair competition because they're bigger. Which is ironic, considering they claim Rosters shouldn't matter. That's neither here nor there. My response means that the top doesn't have the right to oust lower Players out of the competition entirely. That's just self-absorbed, to be honest. There's enough room in a competition for people to start out reasonably, earn their way as far up as their abilities allow them to, ergo whatever Rewards their skills allow them to earn, and meet their end organically. It doesn't have to be the source of frustration for them just because of some predestined assumption that the biggest comes first.
Okay yeah I agree with the whole "bulldozing people at the early stages of the competition", that wouldn't be fair. That would be just as unfair as lower accounts making it to GC before the top ones. I guess there's nothing to argue here then, sucks that most people twist everything you say and spam you with disagrees cause that's the only reason I thought you agreed with the idea that matchmaking is fine as is currently and lower accounts should be allowed to make it to GC before the top ones. Never mind then lol.
No, that wasn't one of my stances. I was just discussing some comments made in response to Players not deserving what they won in the Season in other discussions. I get the issue, but I also have other concerns.
If your stance is simply that lower rated accounts should only begin by facing lower rated accounts for a couple of tiers (say, Bronze and Silver), then that’s not what’s come across to me.
I think, however, that most players would find that generally less objectionable—although it does seem like a “delayed bulldozing” since those lower rated accounts will face larger, more formidable accounts eventually.
The race to the GC is mainly what (I believe) frustrated players this season. It appeared that lower accounts retained this kind of advantage all the way through VT. Building win streaks is much easier (and less costly) with protection. Most larger accounts didn’t get that kind of protection from the matchmaking—they butted heads against each other and burned materials on champs they might not otherwise have ranked to try to vault out of the low tiers.
I still think protection for smaller accounts at the lower levels will cause problems, if only because large accounts will continue see 100K players climbing quickly into Gold while they take a step up and a step back against 3M+ rated rosters. And I think smaller accounts will not like the wall they hit when they suddenly aren’t facing like-sized accounts. This thread is proof positive of that.
I want them to keep the "protections" for the first tier of fighting. As you go through Gold, etc; you start losing protections. Just before GC, there should be no protections. That way, if you can't compete, you will demote down to a competative level.
Small accounts getting to GC is bad for them too. They are perpetual punching bags, until the end of the season.
The tier idea is growing on me. It shouldn't be locked behind a progression title, prestige, or overall hero rating. We see it with incursions. Choose your difficulty...it's seen in just about every other game out there. Of you know what you're getting into before you start, then you can't complain when the level of competition is beyond the capabilities of your roster.
We don't have a toned down Abyss or LOL. Same with Gauntlet, EOP, or Variant. If you want to get those rewards, you face the same level of champs everyone else is facing. If you didn't have the roster to complete it, then you focus on other areas of the game until you could go back in and finish it.
Rewards scale based on the tier you choose. Limit the entries for a summoner to 1 or 2 choices so we don't have those grinders who want to be in the GC for every level which stonewalls the summoners on those levels.
BG's is a mix of skill and rosters. Are there summoners out there with low level accounts that are highly skilled? Absolutely. Despite that skill, they are at a disadvantage because their decks don't have the health pools or attack values that challenge 6* r4's due to the timer.
With such a wide player base, Kabam is always going to get flak for putting out content with great rewards. Not everyone can complete it. With RNG, it may take awhile to get the right champs to make it easier/fairer, but with the recent trend of increased access to shards and rank up mats, we're seeing growth on accounts at a much faster pace. In the current BG system, this growth is enhanced because low level accounts face low level accounts all the way through VT and they get access to some pretty good rewards in comparison to other content in the game.
@Halpy Just so you know, there have been massive threads on this subject, but all of them upset with the rewards you (and similar accounts) are getting.
Summoners who have been playing MUCH longer and invested more time and money are getting trash rewards.
There's only one BGs, and it's available for a range of Players, and they're all at valid points in the game. Just because there's a competitive aspect to the game, doesn't mean the top automatically owns it.
And they wouldn’t. I know a guy who’s in newn right now, and he could take a Cav roster and wax plenty of late TB players, especially in a high scoring, unrestrictive meta like what’s coming up. Because they nerfed progression, the jump from 6r1 to r2 is about the same boost as r2 to r4.
With that said, it’s patently absurd that I’d have an easier time getting to gladiator circuit on my cavalier and TB alts than I would in my paragon account, where I had 5 champs I wanted to r4 max sig (S99, nimrod, KP, Knull, and Herc)
I mean, I support having something preventing manipulation and evening things out for Players starting out in the VT, but those are basically the Preliminaries. The GC is the actual race.
So you think a 100k account should be able to make it to GC by only matching similar accounts?
If they're good enough to beat the other 100k accounts, then yes I do.
You've done a complete 180 from last week when you literally posted that matches should not be based on prestige or pi.
I realised how many huge accounts there are out there. I can't compete with them in GC. So I suggested the only solution I can think of
Maybe that should tell you that you're out of your league and shouldn't have made it to he CG in the first place.
The idea that the best play the best for the best rewards is nothing new. Sports do this all the time. The "game of baseball" is effectively the same whether you are playing in the major leagues, minor leagues, college, or highschool.
The question is... how do you "gauge" level. In AW... we have a war rating. in battlesgrounds we have a battlegrounds rating.
I don't know why the BG rating resets every season... instead of being used for matchmaking and possibly giving players a bit of a head start (why should Bero-man who just won the last start in bronze 2).
Anyone in a given tier should be equally likely to face someone else from that tier. "stronger" players, rosters or what have you should face eachother... in higher tiers. Other than the occasional friendly match... the Boston Redsox do not play ranked games again the Pawtucket Paw-Sox, but the team in #1 place in ML can and will place against the lowest ranked team in their league.
Soccer has "relegation", and against going back to MC... teams who do well move up Tiers and teams that lose go back. Shouldn't be any different in BG (but rewards do need to be refigured so that those who start higher don't "miss out" on the lower tier rewards)
@Qwerty12345 I agree completely, but I've tried using sports analogies on this topic in the past. They tend to miss the mark though. Pretty sure the folks complaining about competing against stronger accounts aren't sports fans.
My issue isn't that Players are coming up against larger Accounts, full stop. My issue is that Players are coming up against MUCH larger Accounts at the onset. Inevitably they'll come up against larger Accounts as they progress. That's as it should be. When they're being thrown in from the start with all Accounts, that doesn't give them a reasonable chance to progress at all. There has to be some kind of mitigating factor to allow them to have a fair start. Not to mention we've come to this point because people started manipulating their Rosters just to get the easy trip up to the GC. I'm sorry, but the Rewards are not a justification for those issues in my mind. Regardless of who thinks it's a right of competition. We have two Rewards aspects here. One I'm concerned with, one I'm not. One is what's appropriate for a Player, Rewards that are in tandem with where a Player is at, and what they earn in the competition. Fair Rewards for lack of a better term. I agree that they need to be appropriate. The other aspect is what people think lower Accounts SHOULD get. I honestly can't be bothered with that perspective. We're not voting on what we think people deserve. Further to that, having an Alt isn't a statement to what is reasonable and easy for a Player at that stage. It's just not. A seasoned Player with a newer Account is not the same as a newer Player with a new Account. I understand what people are saying. I don't agree with the extreme belittling of the issues. People don't want easy Rewards for easy Matches. They want a competition that awards them based on their efforts. I don't recall anyone complaining they lost. They want a system that doesn't ambush them into losing over and over before they can even get anywhere at all.
That's the same on both sides. Same issue, different demographics. So I don't understand why it's such a point of contention. Both sides don't want the same thing.
With your suggestions, I'm starting to think the current system is the best one for me to maximise the rewards I earn. So maybe keep this system as it is for now at least
No the current system isn’t the best for you. Adding prestige matchmaking to GC also, would be the best to maximise your rewards. Why does Beroman is getting the top rewards? You should be able to claim them too. Being always at your league and earning your way up there 😂 At least you are honest, that your only concern is getting as much rewards as you can, no matter if you should or not. Greediness gone to another level 🚀
If we're talking theoretical discussion, I find it somewhat contradictory that people would suggest keeping everyone under a certain Prestige in the VT, considering they're adamantly arguing that Prestige should make no difference. It's also shooting themselves in the foot, because that would be an easier Win in the GC. I'm more inclined to support the dog-eat-dog approach in the GC than I am at the beginning of VT.
@GroundedWisdom Your refusal to answer the question, then make a completely incorrect assumption as to the intent, speaks volumes of the value you add to the conversation.
I'll fast forward to the point though since it's one you seem determined to tap dance around by not answering simple, direct questions.
The correct answer to that question was 14,999. So of in the first week, all of the >15,000 accounts get into GC, that means only accounts <14,999 remain in VT. If in the second week the vast majority of those accounts climb into GC, by week 3 you may only be left with accounts <12,500. By week 4, perhaps only accounts <11,000 are left in VT.
The point of all this remains the same. A low level account is still extremely likely to reach GC. They would however, be unlikely to do it faster than accounts significantly higher. And that is exactly how any competitive mode of ANYTHING should work.
Your opportunity to get great rewards remains the same as everyone else. The difference is, you probably won't get there until others have cleared out, or you'll need to invest in a great deal of victory shields.
I suspect you're intelligent enough to recognize this fact, but you're choosing to ignore it, because it doesn't fit the narrative of "fairness" that you're trying to tell.
First off, when you ask what the largest Account "I" will face is, I'm going to respond in kind. I don't care. Secondly, what you're suggesting has nothing to do with what I'm suggesting. I never suggested they keep things the same, and I certainly don't support a mishmash from the start. All your example does is serve to support my issue. The only people benefitting from that are the people in the highest Brackets, and everyone else is expected to stay their progress until the last week or two. That's not a competitive mode. That's a time gate based on the size of Accounts.
Regardless of whether it's a competition or not, no one group of Players' progress is more important than any other. Both are important. That's my point. I'm not sure why that's so hard to grasp, but it's pretty all-encompassing.
I want them to keep the "protections" for the first tier of fighting. As you go through Gold, etc; you start losing protections. Just before GC, there should be no protections. That way, if you can't compete, you will demote down to a competative level.
There's no demotions in the VT track (at least at the moment), beyond a certain point if you can't win, you stall at a certain tier. Or rather, progress slows to a potentially unacceptable level.
The idea of "protecting" lower tier players at lower participation levels is something I think most reasonable people would agree to. The simplest way to do that would be to implement ELO matching in the VC, but then weight matches by meta-prestige (the wider prestige calculation that the game appears to currently be using). Match by ELO, but prefer to match on prestige when possible. Then lower that weighting as they improve tier, until that weighting disappears. Personally, I would phase it out significantly before GC. If players were still getting significant measurable advantages all the way up to just before GC, that would translate to having those advantages for essentially all of the VC rewards. I would probably phase out somewhere around Gold 1.
Small accounts getting to GC is bad for them too. They are perpetual punching bags, until the end of the season.
The benefit of small accounts reaching GC is a) they scoop up all the track rewards in the VC and b) they automatically get the lowest tier of GC rewards even if they fail to win a single match. I wouldn't say this is bad for them.
.....and everyone else is expected to stay their progress until the last week or two. That's not a competitive mode. That's a time gate based on the size of Accounts.
Welcome to the conversation my friend!!
You just described what myself, and countless other high prestige Paragons had to deal with. I personally didn't get into GC in season 4 until two days prior to the end of the season.
Funny how it's unfair if lower accounts have to wait to string together wins to advance, but perfectly fine if higher level accounts have to.
Comments
My main point was in response to a separate "noob" competition, just because people want a fair chance starting out. I find that to be particularly crass.
I support people having Rewards they earn, and I support people having Rewards appropriate to where they're at. I don't support the inane right to bulldoze people at the early stages of the competition because "We're bigger and it's the same pool of Rewards.".
That's just the idea that anyone with the highest Title has the right to inhibit a fair competition because they're bigger. Which is ironic, considering they claim Rosters shouldn't matter. That's neither here nor there.
My response means that the top doesn't have the right to oust lower Players out of the competition entirely. That's just self-absorbed, to be honest.
There's enough room in a competition for people to start out reasonably, earn their way as far up as their abilities allow them to, ergo whatever Rewards their skills allow them to earn, and meet their end organically. It doesn't have to be the source of frustration for them just because of some predestined assumption that the biggest comes first.
Here here
I guess there's nothing to argue here then, sucks that most people twist everything you say and spam you with disagrees cause that's the only reason I thought you agreed with the idea that matchmaking is fine as is currently and lower accounts should be allowed to make it to GC before the top ones.
Never mind then lol.
I think, however, that most players would find that generally less objectionable—although it does seem like a “delayed bulldozing” since those lower rated accounts will face larger, more formidable accounts eventually.
The race to the GC is mainly what (I believe) frustrated players this season. It appeared that lower accounts retained this kind of advantage all the way through VT. Building win streaks is much easier (and less costly) with protection. Most larger accounts didn’t get that kind of protection from the matchmaking—they butted heads against each other and burned materials on champs they might not otherwise have ranked to try to vault out of the low tiers.
I still think protection for smaller accounts at the lower levels will cause problems, if only because large accounts will continue see 100K players climbing quickly into Gold while they take a step up and a step back against 3M+ rated rosters. And I think smaller accounts will not like the wall they hit when they suddenly aren’t facing like-sized accounts. This thread is proof positive of that.
Dr. Zola
As you go through Gold, etc; you start losing protections.
Just before GC, there should be no protections.
That way, if you can't compete, you will demote down to a competative level.
Small accounts getting to GC is bad for them too. They are perpetual punching bags, until the end of the season.
We don't have a toned down Abyss or LOL. Same with Gauntlet, EOP, or Variant. If you want to get those rewards, you face the same level of champs everyone else is facing. If you didn't have the roster to complete it, then you focus on other areas of the game until you could go back in and finish it.
Rewards scale based on the tier you choose. Limit the entries for a summoner to 1 or 2 choices so we don't have those grinders who want to be in the GC for every level which stonewalls the summoners on those levels.
BG's is a mix of skill and rosters. Are there summoners out there with low level accounts that are highly skilled? Absolutely. Despite that skill, they are at a disadvantage because their decks don't have the health pools or attack values that challenge 6* r4's due to the timer.
With such a wide player base, Kabam is always going to get flak for putting out content with great rewards. Not everyone can complete it. With RNG, it may take awhile to get the right champs to make it easier/fairer, but with the recent trend of increased access to shards and rank up mats, we're seeing growth on accounts at a much faster pace. In the current BG system, this growth is enhanced because low level accounts face low level accounts all the way through VT and they get access to some pretty good rewards in comparison to other content in the game.
Just so you know, there have been massive threads on this subject, but all of them upset with the rewards you (and similar accounts) are getting.
Summoners who have been playing MUCH longer and invested more time and money are getting trash rewards.
Enjoy it while you can.
With that said, it’s patently absurd that I’d have an easier time getting to gladiator circuit on my cavalier and TB alts than I would in my paragon account, where I had 5 champs I wanted to r4 max sig (S99, nimrod, KP, Knull, and Herc)
The question is... how do you "gauge" level. In AW... we have a war rating. in battlesgrounds we have a battlegrounds rating.
I don't know why the BG rating resets every season... instead of being used for matchmaking and possibly giving players a bit of a head start (why should Bero-man who just won the last start in bronze 2).
Anyone in a given tier should be equally likely to face someone else from that tier. "stronger" players, rosters or what have you should face eachother... in higher tiers. Other than the occasional friendly match... the Boston Redsox do not play ranked games again the Pawtucket Paw-Sox, but the team in #1 place in ML can and will place against the lowest ranked team in their league.
Soccer has "relegation", and against going back to MC... teams who do well move up Tiers and teams that lose go back. Shouldn't be any different in BG (but rewards do need to be refigured so that those who start higher don't "miss out" on the lower tier rewards)
We have two Rewards aspects here. One I'm concerned with, one I'm not. One is what's appropriate for a Player, Rewards that are in tandem with where a Player is at, and what they earn in the competition. Fair Rewards for lack of a better term. I agree that they need to be appropriate.
The other aspect is what people think lower Accounts SHOULD get. I honestly can't be bothered with that perspective. We're not voting on what we think people deserve. Further to that, having an Alt isn't a statement to what is reasonable and easy for a Player at that stage. It's just not. A seasoned Player with a newer Account is not the same as a newer Player with a new Account.
I understand what people are saying. I don't agree with the extreme belittling of the issues. People don't want easy Rewards for easy Matches. They want a competition that awards them based on their efforts. I don't recall anyone complaining they lost. They want a system that doesn't ambush them into losing over and over before they can even get anywhere at all.
Part 1:
If every >15,000 prestige account is in Gladiator Circuit, what is the largest account you will face in Victory Track?
Adding prestige matchmaking to GC also, would be the best to maximise your rewards.
Why does Beroman is getting the top rewards?
You should be able to claim them too.
Being always at your league and earning your way up there 😂
At least you are honest, that your only concern is getting as much rewards as you can, no matter if you should or not.
Greediness gone to another level 🚀
I'll fast forward to the point though since it's one you seem determined to tap dance around by not answering simple, direct questions.
The correct answer to that question was 14,999. So of in the first week, all of the >15,000 accounts get into GC, that means only accounts <14,999 remain in VT. If in the second week the vast majority of those accounts climb into GC, by week 3 you may only be left with accounts <12,500. By week 4, perhaps only accounts <11,000 are left in VT.
The point of all this remains the same. A low level account is still extremely likely to reach GC. They would however, be unlikely to do it faster than accounts significantly higher. And that is exactly how any competitive mode of ANYTHING should work.
Your opportunity to get great rewards remains the same as everyone else. The difference is, you probably won't get there until others have cleared out, or you'll need to invest in a great deal of victory shields.
I suspect you're intelligent enough to recognize this fact, but you're choosing to ignore it, because it doesn't fit the narrative of "fairness" that you're trying to tell.
Secondly, what you're suggesting has nothing to do with what I'm suggesting. I never suggested they keep things the same, and I certainly don't support a mishmash from the start. All your example does is serve to support my issue. The only people benefitting from that are the people in the highest Brackets, and everyone else is expected to stay their progress until the last week or two. That's not a competitive mode. That's a time gate based on the size of Accounts.
The idea of "protecting" lower tier players at lower participation levels is something I think most reasonable people would agree to. The simplest way to do that would be to implement ELO matching in the VC, but then weight matches by meta-prestige (the wider prestige calculation that the game appears to currently be using). Match by ELO, but prefer to match on prestige when possible. Then lower that weighting as they improve tier, until that weighting disappears. Personally, I would phase it out significantly before GC. If players were still getting significant measurable advantages all the way up to just before GC, that would translate to having those advantages for essentially all of the VC rewards. I would probably phase out somewhere around Gold 1. The benefit of small accounts reaching GC is a) they scoop up all the track rewards in the VC and b) they automatically get the lowest tier of GC rewards even if they fail to win a single match. I wouldn't say this is bad for them.
You just described what myself, and countless other high prestige Paragons had to deal with. I personally didn't get into GC in season 4 until two days prior to the end of the season.
Funny how it's unfair if lower accounts have to wait to string together wins to advance, but perfectly fine if higher level accounts have to.