The entire competition isn't "the deep end". I have no idea why people consider it an exclusive piece of content for the top alone, but it's a good thing it isn't. If it was, the Paragons would be back here complaining they have to face their own Prestige like they are now.
I'm going to take a page out of your book and ask you to show me where I said "it's an exclusive piece of content for the top tier alone.", cause I know for a fact I haven't said that, nor have I seen it said by anyone else.
I find it ironic that you're trying to imply there's a group claiming exclusivity to the content, when in reality that group is arguing just the opposite. It's for everyone, and therefore everyone should be subject to fighting everyone else.
You've thrown around terms like "entitlement" as if the top tier are suggesting they are entitled to the best rewards, when in fact, you are the only one here advocating for some form of special treatment that you seem to believe you're entitled to.
If you can't win the fights against everyone else in the competition, go explore other modes of content, get those rewards, progress your account the way everyone else does, then come back when your account is stronger.
There's no reason though, that you, or anyone else, should get some form of a handicap simply because you've made a conscious decision to compete in this game mode as opposed to the others.
I'm discussing the reasonability of the Matches starting out and having something leveling them out up to a certain point. I am not talking about the amount of Rewards people can get.
I'm a paragon and are fighting very strong paragons every time I enter BG's an I lose about 70% of them, I've worked for 4 years to get my account where it is and because I lost a couple of BG's I'm not just going to stop playing, losing is part of life, does it stop me from playing the mode, except for the 3 losses every second day, yes it does, but i have other things in life going on.
Now for UC players (lets say accounts a year or less old) , their rosters cant do most of the newer content (with the "rebalancing" of the SQ), so now they just do BG's. If kabam forces them to compete with a random player in BG's most of the time they would get a TB or P player and just lose, thus discouraging them from playing the mode or even the game, so what is the lesser of 2 evils?
a Few TB & Para players not playing BG's but the rest of the game, Or UC players gaining an advantage in one mode, spending units and money on BG items, option 2 sound way better to me?
Is the goal of this debate to keep other Players from having Rewards? That seems pretty nefarious to me.
At the end of the day, the rewards are why match making matters. That's why friendly mode has no rewards. When there are no rewards, no one cares who you fight. Fairness only matters if there's something to be fair about. Voluntary game modes with no rewards have no fairness criteria anyone cares about.
I have no idea why people consider it an exclusive piece of content for the top alone, but it's a good thing it isn't.
No one is saying that it is, even though this is a strawman you keep repeating. Show me one person that said or even implied this is true, and I will bow out of the thread permanently.
I have no idea why people consider it an exclusive piece of content for the top alone, but it's a good thing it isn't.
No one is saying that it is, even though this is a strawman you keep repeating. Show me one person that said or even implied this is true, and I will bow out of the thread permanently.
I wouldn't suggest you leave the discussion. Have those words been used specifically? No. To be honest, that wasn't a direct quote. The implication is there. Whether it's because the Rewards are good, or because it's a competition, or because other areas of the game operate like that. Telling people to develop before they go off to the "deep end", telling people they have other content to do first, telling them their concerns aren't valid because the Rewards are great, that's all eluding to the idea that it's only meant to serve the top. It isn't just for one demographic of Players. If it was, there would only be one in it. The sooner people stop claiming to be more important, the sooner we can look at all concerns in a productive way.
I'm discussing the reasonability of the Matches starting out and having something leveling them out up to a certain point. I am not talking about the amount of Rewards people can get.
“Reasonability of the matches starting out and having something leveling them out up to a certain point” Let’s accept that the “reasonable” matches are only between players of equal Prestige - which in no way are, since any match within the same tier would be a reasonable match. Should that certain point be so high as GC? Because that’s how it works now. Like it or not, rewards are the stakes. People are playing for the rewards. VT matches ain’t friendly matches without rewards. Anyone should be able face anyone. That’s how FAIR competitions work, not rigged Prestige matchmaking ones. Because VT matchmaking is rigged in favour of small accounts.
I'm discussing the reasonability of the Matches starting out and having something leveling them out up to a certain point. I am not talking about the amount of Rewards people can get.
“Reasonability of the matches starting out and having something leveling them out up to a certain point” Let’s accept that the “reasonable” matches are only between players of equal Prestige - which in no way are, since any match within the same tier would be a reasonable match. Should that certain point be so high as GC? Because that’s how it works now. Like it or not, rewards are the stakes. People are playing for the rewards. VT matches ain’t friendly matches without rewards. Anyone should be able face anyone. That’s how FAIR competitions work, not rigged Prestige matchmaking ones. Because VT matchmaking is rigged in favour of small accounts.
You realize if anyone was able to face anyone (even in bronze 3) lower accounts would be essentially stuck on bronze 3 for a whole week right? I'm not saying no to random matchmaking in general cause yes once you climb up to a certain point in VT, matchmaking should be random to prevent lower accounts from making it to GC as easily as this last season but the fact that some of you want to have a chance to bulldoze a lower account even in the lower leagues (that aren't really an issue) shows the level of entitlement some of you have. Let me guess, did you also sandbag a lot before it got removed? Because it sure as hell sounds like you want to destroy lower accounts.
Well I'm perfectly fine stating that yes, I think match making should be random right off the bat.
No, I'm not entitled. It's hilarious that some of you are using that word, because suggesting lower accounts should receive a handicap to advance faster is the very definition of entitlement.
And no, I never once used the sandbagging nonsense. I frankly found it comical, cause when I would come up against someone trying that, I wrecked them.
Just to reiterate though, there is zero entitlement in suggesting someone who would potentially force me down in ranks should be able to do so without being subject to fighting me.
I don't know where some of you get your ideas of fairness from, but I gotta believe it's representative of a generation where everyone gets a participation trophy.
As I've said before, there are cumulatively, more UCs, Cavs, and TBs than there are Paragons, so in a truly random match making system, your odds of fighting a comparatively strong opponent are actually still higher than fighting against a stacked Paragon account. If it's a problem, buy victory shields the way many Paragons had to do in season 4 because we only faced other stacked rosters.
Alternatively, yes, wait a week or two before making your push to GC so the VT can clear out a bit. I personally didn't get into GC until a day before the season ended. If you still get into GC, albeit slower, then you're still getting all those milestone rewards.
That literally means there's no difference to you, unless of course, you're worried about your GC rewards, which some of you have claimed you're not. If that's a problem, then whether you admit it or not, you're asking for a handicap to get better rewards.
I'm discussing the reasonability of the Matches starting out and having something leveling them out up to a certain point. I am not talking about the amount of Rewards people can get.
“Reasonability of the matches starting out and having something leveling them out up to a certain point” Let’s accept that the “reasonable” matches are only between players of equal Prestige - which in no way are, since any match within the same tier would be a reasonable match. Should that certain point be so high as GC? Because that’s how it works now. Like it or not, rewards are the stakes. People are playing for the rewards. VT matches ain’t friendly matches without rewards. Anyone should be able face anyone. That’s how FAIR competitions work, not rigged Prestige matchmaking ones. Because VT matchmaking is rigged in favour of small accounts.
You realize if anyone was able to face anyone (even in bronze 3) lower accounts would be essentially stuck on bronze 3 for a whole week right? I'm not saying no to random matchmaking in general cause yes once you climb up to a certain point in VT, matchmaking should be random to prevent lower accounts from making it to GC as easily as this last season but the fact that some of you want to have a chance to bulldoze a lower account even in the lower leagues (that aren't really an issue) shows the level of entitlement some of you have. Let me guess, did you also sandbag a lot before it got removed? Because it sure as hell sounds like you want to destroy lower accounts.
Worse, with the proposed suggestion, they expect lower Accounts to start making progress the last 2 weeks, or the last week. Which is something we've seen with people waiting until things advance before starting. That's not accounting for anyone higher up who decides to start later. That's not a reasonable thing to expect, considering the competition is a month long.
Also, we all know what the words reasonable and fair mean. What that looks like might be open to interpretation and discussion, but within the realm of fair play is what we're talking about.
Well I'm perfectly fine stating that yes, I think match making should be random right off the bat.
No, I'm not entitled. It's hilarious that some of you are using that word, because suggesting lower accounts should receive a handicap to advance faster is the very definition of entitlement.
And no, I never once used the sandbagging nonsense. I frankly found it comical, cause when I would come up against someone trying that, I wrecked them.
Just to reiterate though, there is zero entitlement in suggesting someone who would potentially force me down in ranks should be able to do so without being subject to fighting me.
I don't know where some of you get your ideas of fairness from, but I gotta believe it's representative of a generation where everyone gets a participation trophy.
As I've said before, there are cumulatively, more UCs, Cavs, and TBs than there are Paragons, so in a truly random match making system, your odds of fighting a comparatively strong opponent are actually still higher than fighting against a stacked Paragon account. If it's a problem, buy victory shields the way many Paragons had to do in season 4 because we only faced other stacked rosters.
Alternatively, yes, wait a week or two before making your push to GC so the VT can clear out a bit. I personally didn't get into GC until a day before the season ended. If you still get into GC, albeit slower, then you're still getting all those milestone rewards.
That literally means there's no difference to you, unless of course, you're worried about your GC rewards, which some of you have claimed you're not. If that's a problem, then whether you admit it or not, you're asking for a handicap to get better rewards.
Tell me where I'm wrong.
Making the game unplayable and unbearable for lower accounts just because you want to climb up quicker IS being entitled.
They can't force you down the ranks if they've been stuck in bronze 3 for a week and half can they? You make no sense.
Where did those ideas come from? I don't know buddy maybe the fact that they removed sandbagging and didn't change it to random matchmaking when they could've? There's a reason they don't want matchmaking to be random from Bronze 3 all the way up to Vibranium. What other possible reason could there be other than they don't want big accounts bulldozing the lower ones?
Where'd you get all that data from? That's just your assumption, and it's far from being a fact.
Guess what! They already had to do that for three whole seasons when sandbagging was a thing. There's that entitlement I was talking about.
Who's talking about GC here? We're simply arguing matchmaking shouldn't be random in the lowest leagues (bronze, maybe silver) not all of VT.
I have watched countless of forum post. Most leading into arguments. And the topic would always be about what you may call battlegrounds. this is one thread where I have to intervene, for usually i stay in my place and watch. No one can have a peaceful disagreement and they always take a dark turn. Always someone makes a suggestion about how battlegrounds should be and make it what you may call "Fair" for newer players. Many have different opinions on a subject like this. But I would say I agree with this not. Everyone competes for the same rewards. It should not be easy for you if you are trying to push for GC or any other.
I'm discussing the reasonability of the Matches starting out and having something leveling them out up to a certain point. I am not talking about the amount of Rewards people can get.
“Reasonability of the matches starting out and having something leveling them out up to a certain point” Let’s accept that the “reasonable” matches are only between players of equal Prestige - which in no way are, since any match within the same tier would be a reasonable match. Should that certain point be so high as GC? Because that’s how it works now. Like it or not, rewards are the stakes. People are playing for the rewards. VT matches ain’t friendly matches without rewards. Anyone should be able face anyone. That’s how FAIR competitions work, not rigged Prestige matchmaking ones. Because VT matchmaking is rigged in favour of small accounts.
You realize if anyone was able to face anyone (even in bronze 3) lower accounts would be essentially stuck on bronze 3 for a whole week right? I'm not saying no to random matchmaking in general cause yes once you climb up to a certain point in VT, matchmaking should be random to prevent lower accounts from making it to GC as easily as this last season but the fact that some of you want to have a chance to bulldoze a lower account even in the lower leagues (that aren't really an issue) shows the level of entitlement some of you have. Let me guess, did you also sandbag a lot before it got removed? Because it sure as hell sounds like you want to destroy lower accounts.
Worse, with the proposed suggestion, they expect lower Accounts to start making progress the last 2 weeks, or the last week. Which is something we've seen with people waiting until things advance before starting. That's not accounting for anyone higher up who decides to start later. That's not a reasonable thing to expect, considering the competition is a month long.
Yeah, I think wanting random matchmaking even for the lower leagues is ridiculous. If they do that then might as well bring back sandbagging cause lower accounts will be stuck at the bottom the first weeks no matter what, and we're back to step one. I think it'd be alright if matchmaking was random after you got to gold (which is the league where a lot of Paragons claimed to be stuck at last season) but before that it just doesn't make sense.
I'm discussing the reasonability of the Matches starting out and having something leveling them out up to a certain point. I am not talking about the amount of Rewards people can get.
“Reasonability of the matches starting out and having something leveling them out up to a certain point” Let’s accept that the “reasonable” matches are only between players of equal Prestige - which in no way are, since any match within the same tier would be a reasonable match. Should that certain point be so high as GC? Because that’s how it works now. Like it or not, rewards are the stakes. People are playing for the rewards. VT matches ain’t friendly matches without rewards. Anyone should be able face anyone. That’s how FAIR competitions work, not rigged Prestige matchmaking ones. Because VT matchmaking is rigged in favour of small accounts.
You realize if anyone was able to face anyone (even in bronze 3) lower accounts would be essentially stuck on bronze 3 for a whole week right? I'm not saying no to random matchmaking in general cause yes once you climb up to a certain point in VT, matchmaking should be random to prevent lower accounts from making it to GC as easily as this last season but the fact that some of you want to have a chance to bulldoze a lower account even in the lower leagues (that aren't really an issue) shows the level of entitlement some of you have. Let me guess, did you also sandbag a lot before it got removed? Because it sure as hell sounds like you want to destroy lower accounts.
Worse, with the proposed suggestion, they expect lower Accounts to start making progress the last 2 weeks, or the last week. Which is something we've seen with people waiting until things advance before starting. That's not accounting for anyone higher up who decides to start later. That's not a reasonable thing to expect, considering the competition is a month long.
Yeah, I think wanting random matchmaking even for the lower leagues is ridiculous. If they do that then might as well bring back sandbagging cause lower accounts will be stuck at the bottom the first weeks no matter what, and we're back to step one. I think it'd be alright if matchmaking was random after you got to gold (which is the league where a lot of Paragons claimed to be stuck at last season) but before that it just doesn't make sense.
That's been my concern as well. Any advantage can be easily justified by Rewards. Which is all fine and well when people meet their match in a competition. They fight, they progress, and they come to the end of their capabilities. There still has to be some sort of even playing field at the beginning in order to prevent them from being inhibited from making any progress. No one is disputing an easier path to Rewards for them. That's the problem. It's a ping pong debate on who should have an easier time, when in reality the only thing I'm supporting is a reasonable start for everyone.
Well I'm perfectly fine stating that yes, I think match making should be random right off the bat.
No, I'm not entitled. It's hilarious that some of you are using that word, because suggesting lower accounts should receive a handicap to advance faster is the very definition of entitlement.
And no, I never once used the sandbagging nonsense. I frankly found it comical, cause when I would come up against someone trying that, I wrecked them.
Just to reiterate though, there is zero entitlement in suggesting someone who would potentially force me down in ranks should be able to do so without being subject to fighting me.
I don't know where some of you get your ideas of fairness from, but I gotta believe it's representative of a generation where everyone gets a participation trophy.
As I've said before, there are cumulatively, more UCs, Cavs, and TBs than there are Paragons, so in a truly random match making system, your odds of fighting a comparatively strong opponent are actually still higher than fighting against a stacked Paragon account. If it's a problem, buy victory shields the way many Paragons had to do in season 4 because we only faced other stacked rosters.
Alternatively, yes, wait a week or two before making your push to GC so the VT can clear out a bit. I personally didn't get into GC until a day before the season ended. If you still get into GC, albeit slower, then you're still getting all those milestone rewards.
That literally means there's no difference to you, unless of course, you're worried about your GC rewards, which some of you have claimed you're not. If that's a problem, then whether you admit it or not, you're asking for a handicap to get better rewards.
Tell me where I'm wrong.
Making the game unplayable and unbearable for lower accounts just because you want to climb up quicker IS being entitled.
So tell me.....what are you asking for? Cause no matter how you dress it up, YOU are asking to climb the ladder quicker also.
Fact of the matter is, we're both asking for the same thing. The only difference is, I accept the fact that in what I'm asking for, I'm subjecting myself to getting crushed by BeroMan, or any of the other top players.
The only "fair" way to address your concern is for there to be brackets (be it title based, prestige based, total hero rating, or some other measurable metric) where you only compete against others in the same brackets, and the rewards you're competing for are adjusted accordingly.
Personally, I would welcome that. Then I could sit back and laugh when everyone who complained about competition, saying "it's not about the rewards" begins complaining that the rewards in their bracket aren't as good.
Yes, I'm sure you need entirely different leagues to change the Rewards. Not. I play them casually, just here and there, for Shards. I usually finish S2, and get an extra 6* each month, roughly. I'm sure you need to keep such serious Rewards out of the hands of Players earlier on. The Rewards are NOT an excuse for whatever unfair advantage people can justify. That includes expecting the system to provide it.
Well I'm perfectly fine stating that yes, I think match making should be random right off the bat.
No, I'm not entitled. It's hilarious that some of you are using that word, because suggesting lower accounts should receive a handicap to advance faster is the very definition of entitlement.
And no, I never once used the sandbagging nonsense. I frankly found it comical, cause when I would come up against someone trying that, I wrecked them.
Just to reiterate though, there is zero entitlement in suggesting someone who would potentially force me down in ranks should be able to do so without being subject to fighting me.
I don't know where some of you get your ideas of fairness from, but I gotta believe it's representative of a generation where everyone gets a participation trophy.
As I've said before, there are cumulatively, more UCs, Cavs, and TBs than there are Paragons, so in a truly random match making system, your odds of fighting a comparatively strong opponent are actually still higher than fighting against a stacked Paragon account. If it's a problem, buy victory shields the way many Paragons had to do in season 4 because we only faced other stacked rosters.
Alternatively, yes, wait a week or two before making your push to GC so the VT can clear out a bit. I personally didn't get into GC until a day before the season ended. If you still get into GC, albeit slower, then you're still getting all those milestone rewards.
That literally means there's no difference to you, unless of course, you're worried about your GC rewards, which some of you have claimed you're not. If that's a problem, then whether you admit it or not, you're asking for a handicap to get better rewards.
Tell me where I'm wrong.
Making the game unplayable and unbearable for lower accounts just because you want to climb up quicker IS being entitled.
So tell me.....what are you asking for? Cause no matter how you dress it up, YOU are asking to climb the ladder quicker also.
Fact of the matter is, we're both asking for the same thing. The only difference is, I accept the fact that in what I'm asking for, I'm subjecting myself to getting crushed by BeroMan, or any of the other top players.
The only "fair" way to address your concern is for there to be brackets (be it title based, prestige based, total hero rating, or some other measurable metric) where you only compete against others in the same brackets, and the rewards you're competing for are adjusted accordingly.
Personally, I would welcome that. Then I could sit back and laugh when everyone who complained about competition, saying "it's not about the rewards" begins complaining that the rewards in their bracket aren't as good.
We're asking for random matchmaking too, just not in Bronze 3 cause then we have to wait a whole week for Paragons to climb up before we can even start getting points for the solo event. I'm not even UC, I'm currently pushing for TB and it annoys me that some of you just completely ignore the fact that there's UC players out there who deserve to play and enjoy the game mode just as much as you.
Not just you, everyone else too. Do you think a person with an UC account who barely has a few rank 4 5* is going to want to play the game mode if most of their matches they're facing TB or Paragons?
I don't mind brackets. I just want to be able to play the game mode from day one without feeling like I'm being punished, that's literally it. Now, once I make it to gold or the higher leagues it's a different story, cause I'm not entitled and I understand that if I'm getting only fair matches at the top of VT, I'll be in GC in no time before other Paragons make it which is obviously unfair for them. Is it really this bad to ask for balance for both sides?
Could we also lower difficulty of EoP for low level accounts? I got feeling that some low level TB and Paragon players are stuck and cannot complete it bcos of roster and cannot get rewards. And also TB difficulty of monthly event. Should be accessible for TB as well. Right now it is to hard…
Yes, I'm sure you need entirely different leagues to change the Rewards. Not. I play them casually, just here and there, for Shards. I usually finish S2, and get an extra 6* each month, roughly. I'm sure you need to keep such serious Rewards out of the hands of Players earlier on. The Rewards are NOT an excuse for whatever unfair advantage people can justify. That includes expecting the system to provide it.
Please educate me as to how my, or anyone else's advantage, is unfair. I don't mod, cause if I did, I wouldn't care about this conversation.
If you're implying my roster strength is an "unfair" advantage, I would like you to explain how. I don't have a special quest in my account that gives me access to 6*R4 anytime I want. We play the same game that affords the same opportunities. If I have built my account to a stronger point than you, that isn't unfair, because we've had the same opportunities. The only differentiator is how I've taken advantage of the opportunities.
And for the love of God, stop saying its not about the rewards. Of course it's about the rewards, cause if it they were **** none of us would be having this conversation. Instead we would all be piling on Kabam telling them how crappy the rewards are.
Your implication that I have a problem with a lower account getting those rewards is completely foolish. That has never been said. My gripe, and that of every other high account, is that your easy path pushes us further down the ladder. I have no problem saying that CAUSE IT IS ABOUT THE REWARDS!
If you say otherwise, then play the friendly mode. You get all the benefits of enjoying the mode without those pesky rewards you claim to not care about.
Yes, I'm sure you need entirely different leagues to change the Rewards. Not. I play them casually, just here and there, for Shards. I usually finish S2, and get an extra 6* each month, roughly. I'm sure you need to keep such serious Rewards out of the hands of Players earlier on. The Rewards are NOT an excuse for whatever unfair advantage people can justify. That includes expecting the system to provide it.
Please educate me as to how my, or anyone else's advantage, is unfair. I don't mod, cause if I did, I wouldn't care about this conversation.
If you're implying my roster strength is an "unfair" advantage, I would like you to explain how. I don't have a special quest in my account that gives me access to 6*R4 anytime I want. We play the same game that affords the same opportunities. If I have built my account to a stronger point than you, that isn't unfair, because we've had the same opportunities. The only differentiator is how I've taken advantage of the opportunities.
And for the love of God, stop saying its not about the rewards. Of course it's about the rewards, cause if it they were **** none of us would be having this conversation. Instead we would all be piling on Kabam telling them how crappy the rewards are.
Your implication that I have a problem with a lower account getting those rewards is completely foolish. That has never been said. My gripe, and that of every other high account, is that your easy path pushes us further down the ladder. I have no problem saying that CAUSE IT IS ABOUT THE REWARDS!
If you say otherwise, then play the friendly mode. You get all the benefits of enjoying the mode without those pesky rewards you claim to not care about.
How is it an advantage to peck off the weakest Accounts from the start at Bronze 3? Come on, now.
“My argument has never been the Rewards. It's the Matches themselves. Hence my suggestion to accommodate a more reasonable start.”
“The Rewards aren't worth much at all if your chances of even starting to make progress are squashed at the gate.”
“I'm discussing the reasonability of the Matches starting out and having something leveling them out up to a certain point. I am not talking about the amount of Rewards people can get.”
“There still has to be some sort of even playing field at the beginning in order to prevent them from being inhibited from making any progress. No one is disputing an easier path to Rewards for them.”
The problem with these statements is that matches and rewards are inextricably tied together. If they weren’t, no one would be arguing for a better “experience” because it wouldn’t matter. (I may be wrong, but I’m betting there aren’t many players who enjoy just playing Training Grounds over and over.)
Whether you realize it or not, what you actually want is a head start, not a reasonable start—one that lets smaller rosters enjoy a little success against each other at the outset.
The ironic thing is that many of the Paragons you rail against don’t mind some type of tailored version of this. To wit, an example from earlier in this thread:
“If your stance is simply that lower rated accounts should only begin by facing lower rated accounts for a couple of tiers (say, Bronze and Silver), then that’s not what’s come across to me.
I think, however, that most players would find that generally less objectionable…”
That kind of tailored head start has potential to get developing players into a pretty sweet spot for prizes (as @DNA3000 showed above)—prizes that can help them develop their rosters and become more competitive or to progress in other areas of the Contest.
First of all, DNA can speak for himself, and I'm aware he stated as much because he also mentioned the same thing in another Thread. My comments weren't directed to the people who see reason in my suggestions. My comments were directed towards the Players still pushing for a random from-the-onset model because of the Rewards. Quite frankly, it's almost dissociative how the same argument is being made. Rewards are not the issue. The issue is how disadvantageous it is starting out.
What difference does it make to these Players coming up against R4s and R5s in Bronze 3 or Bronze 2, if they *can* accumulate enough Rewards to help their Accounts? That doesn't happen, and I suspect people are aware of that much because quite honestly, they want the easy Wins.
Yes, I'm sure you need entirely different leagues to change the Rewards. Not. I play them casually, just here and there, for Shards. I usually finish S2, and get an extra 6* each month, roughly. I'm sure you need to keep such serious Rewards out of the hands of Players earlier on. The Rewards are NOT an excuse for whatever unfair advantage people can justify. That includes expecting the system to provide it.
Please educate me as to how my, or anyone else's advantage, is unfair. I don't mod, cause if I did, I wouldn't care about this conversation.
If you're implying my roster strength is an "unfair" advantage, I would like you to explain how. I don't have a special quest in my account that gives me access to 6*R4 anytime I want. We play the same game that affords the same opportunities. If I have built my account to a stronger point than you, that isn't unfair, because we've had the same opportunities. The only differentiator is how I've taken advantage of the opportunities.
And for the love of God, stop saying its not about the rewards. Of course it's about the rewards, cause if it they were **** none of us would be having this conversation. Instead we would all be piling on Kabam telling them how crappy the rewards are.
Your implication that I have a problem with a lower account getting those rewards is completely foolish. That has never been said. My gripe, and that of every other high account, is that your easy path pushes us further down the ladder. I have no problem saying that CAUSE IT IS ABOUT THE REWARDS!
If you say otherwise, then play the friendly mode. You get all the benefits of enjoying the mode without those pesky rewards you claim to not care about.
How is it an advantage to peck off the weakest Accounts from the start at Bronze 3? Come on, now.
So the new word is "advantage" now. Okay, let's pick that apart.
My prestige could be 3000 points lower, and I could still have an advantage over you by having the right champs for the meta. Case in point, Crossbones will likely be a great attacker in the season 5 meta, but his prestige is garbage.
So advantages can come in many forms, and yes, I would like any advantage I can get. Before you try to trap me on that though, as I've said before, I'm not advocating to simply beat up on lower accounts. I'm advocating for fairness by way of random match making. If that means my first 25 matches are against higher strength accounts, so be it.
All that said, let's not confuse an advantage with fairness. An advantage is as simple as exploiting someone else's weakness. If I see my opponent draft 5 mystics, you better believe I'm gonna draft Torch if he pops up, and I'm probably gonna use him on defense. That's not unfair. That's exploiting your weakness, or, seeking an advantage.
On second thought, I'm doubling back. The definition of fair is: "impartial and just, without favoritism and discrimination". That's exactly what you have when you have a metric evening people out at the start. No one is being favored or discriminated against. People are starting out the same even way everyone else is. What you're suggesting is the opposite of a fair start. A system that favors the highest Accounts and creates a system that not only penalizes the lower ones, but inhibits them from weeks of potential progress.
At this point is very interesting to see what is Kabam’s official stance on all these. What Kabam consider as “fair” and what “not fair”. Have people developed their accounts all these years, to get them neutralised by a matchmaking system, because it would be “unfair” to use them against the competition? One day left, till new BGs season starts. Another lost season for many accounts 😠
On second thought, I'm doubling back. The definition of fair is: "impartial and just, without favoritism and discrimination". That's exactly what you have when you have a metric evening people out at the start. No one is being favored or discriminated against. People are starting out the same even way everyone else is. What you're suggesting is the opposite of a fair start. A system that favors the highest Accounts and creates a system that not only penalizes the lower ones, but inhibits them from weeks of potential progress.
What part of RANDOM matchmaking makes you believe that it’s favoring one demographic over the other? Are you suggesting there is a secret algorithm that kabam will make to favor higher accounts if they go with random matchmaking? If I post that my crystal pull was rigged because I pulled some weak champ, I am sure you will be jumping at my throat that it’s pure RNG. Random matchmaking means you can match anyone from that tier. That means I can face off against beroman or against a brand new uncollected account with 5k prestige.
On second thought, I'm doubling back. The definition of fair is: "impartial and just, without favoritism and discrimination". That's exactly what you have when you have a metric evening people out at the start. No one is being favored or discriminated against. People are starting out the same even way everyone else is. What you're suggesting is the opposite of a fair start. A system that favors the highest Accounts and creates a system that not only penalizes the lower ones, but inhibits them from weeks of potential progress.
What part of RANDOM matchmaking makes you believe that it’s favoring one demographic over the other? Are you suggesting there is a secret algorithm that kabam will make to favor higher accounts if they go with random matchmaking? If I post that my crystal pull was rigged because I pulled some weak champ, I am sure you will be jumping at my throat that it’s pure RNG. Random matchmaking means you can match anyone from that tier. That means I can face off against beroman or against a brand new uncollected account with 5k prestige.
You can't start a cumulative progress competition that way and call it fair. Yes, the progress one has made over time should play a part. Not when that progress is being used to stonewall Players at the gate. That is favoring one demographic over the other. All I'm hearing is "It's random so I should be able to take out an UC Account in Bronze 3 because that's fair.". That's not fair. Not at all. That's an unfair advantage over the beginning of the competition, justified by the system allowing it. That's equal to justifying sandbagging. Why did people do it? They knew they were going to have an advantage. Not all advantages are within the realm of a fair competition.
Comments
I find it ironic that you're trying to imply there's a group claiming exclusivity to the content, when in reality that group is arguing just the opposite. It's for everyone, and therefore everyone should be subject to fighting everyone else.
You've thrown around terms like "entitlement" as if the top tier are suggesting they are entitled to the best rewards, when in fact, you are the only one here advocating for some form of special treatment that you seem to believe you're entitled to.
If you can't win the fights against everyone else in the competition, go explore other modes of content, get those rewards, progress your account the way everyone else does, then come back when your account is stronger.
There's no reason though, that you, or anyone else, should get some form of a handicap simply because you've made a conscious decision to compete in this game mode as opposed to the others.
I'm a paragon and are fighting very strong paragons every time I enter BG's an I lose about 70% of them, I've worked for 4 years to get my account where it is and because I lost a couple of BG's I'm not just going to stop playing, losing is part of life, does it stop me from playing the mode, except for the 3 losses every second day, yes it does, but i have other things in life going on.
Now for UC players (lets say accounts a year or less old) , their rosters cant do most of the newer content (with the "rebalancing" of the SQ), so now they just do BG's. If kabam forces them to compete with a random player in BG's most of the time they would get a TB or P player and just lose, thus discouraging them from playing the mode or even the game, so what is the lesser of 2 evils?
a Few TB & Para players not playing BG's but the rest of the game, Or UC players gaining an advantage in one mode, spending units and money on BG items, option 2 sound way better to me?
Let’s accept that the “reasonable” matches are only between players of equal Prestige - which in no way are, since any match within the same tier would be a reasonable match.
Should that certain point be so high as GC?
Because that’s how it works now.
Like it or not, rewards are the stakes.
People are playing for the rewards.
VT matches ain’t friendly matches without rewards.
Anyone should be able face anyone.
That’s how FAIR competitions work, not rigged Prestige matchmaking ones.
Because VT matchmaking is rigged in favour of small accounts.
No, I'm not entitled. It's hilarious that some of you are using that word, because suggesting lower accounts should receive a handicap to advance faster is the very definition of entitlement.
And no, I never once used the sandbagging nonsense. I frankly found it comical, cause when I would come up against someone trying that, I wrecked them.
Just to reiterate though, there is zero entitlement in suggesting someone who would potentially force me down in ranks should be able to do so without being subject to fighting me.
I don't know where some of you get your ideas of fairness from, but I gotta believe it's representative of a generation where everyone gets a participation trophy.
As I've said before, there are cumulatively, more UCs, Cavs, and TBs than there are Paragons, so in a truly random match making system, your odds of fighting a comparatively strong opponent are actually still higher than fighting against a stacked Paragon account. If it's a problem, buy victory shields the way many Paragons had to do in season 4 because we only faced other stacked rosters.
Alternatively, yes, wait a week or two before making your push to GC so the VT can clear out a bit. I personally didn't get into GC until a day before the season ended. If you still get into GC, albeit slower, then you're still getting all those milestone rewards.
That literally means there's no difference to you, unless of course, you're worried about your GC rewards, which some of you have claimed you're not. If that's a problem, then whether you admit it or not, you're asking for a handicap to get better rewards.
Tell me where I'm wrong.
They can't force you down the ranks if they've been stuck in bronze 3 for a week and half can they? You make no sense.
Where did those ideas come from? I don't know buddy maybe the fact that they removed sandbagging and didn't change it to random matchmaking when they could've? There's a reason they don't want matchmaking to be random from Bronze 3 all the way up to Vibranium. What other possible reason could there be other than they don't want big accounts bulldozing the lower ones?
Where'd you get all that data from? That's just your assumption, and it's far from being a fact.
Guess what! They already had to do that for three whole seasons when sandbagging was a thing. There's that entitlement I was talking about.
Who's talking about GC here? We're simply arguing matchmaking shouldn't be random in the lowest leagues (bronze, maybe silver) not all of VT.
Thus speaks, The Watcher
I think it'd be alright if matchmaking was random after you got to gold (which is the league where a lot of Paragons claimed to be stuck at last season) but before that it just doesn't make sense.
Fact of the matter is, we're both asking for the same thing. The only difference is, I accept the fact that in what I'm asking for, I'm subjecting myself to getting crushed by BeroMan, or any of the other top players.
The only "fair" way to address your concern is for there to be brackets (be it title based, prestige based, total hero rating, or some other measurable metric) where you only compete against others in the same brackets, and the rewards you're competing for are adjusted accordingly.
Personally, I would welcome that. Then I could sit back and laugh when everyone who complained about competition, saying "it's not about the rewards" begins complaining that the rewards in their bracket aren't as good.
I play them casually, just here and there, for Shards. I usually finish S2, and get an extra 6* each month, roughly.
I'm sure you need to keep such serious Rewards out of the hands of Players earlier on.
The Rewards are NOT an excuse for whatever unfair advantage people can justify. That includes expecting the system to provide it.
Not just you, everyone else too. Do you think a person with an UC account who barely has a few rank 4 5* is going to want to play the game mode if most of their matches they're facing TB or Paragons?
I don't mind brackets. I just want to be able to play the game mode from day one without feeling like I'm being punished, that's literally it. Now, once I make it to gold or the higher leagues it's a different story, cause I'm not entitled and I understand that if I'm getting only fair matches at the top of VT, I'll be in GC in no time before other Paragons make it which is obviously unfair for them. Is it really this bad to ask for balance for both sides?
If you're implying my roster strength is an "unfair" advantage, I would like you to explain how. I don't have a special quest in my account that gives me access to 6*R4 anytime I want. We play the same game that affords the same opportunities. If I have built my account to a stronger point than you, that isn't unfair, because we've had the same opportunities. The only differentiator is how I've taken advantage of the opportunities.
And for the love of God, stop saying its not about the rewards. Of course it's about the rewards, cause if it they were **** none of us would be having this conversation. Instead we would all be piling on Kabam telling them how crappy the rewards are.
Your implication that I have a problem with a lower account getting those rewards is completely foolish. That has never been said. My gripe, and that of every other high account, is that your easy path pushes us further down the ladder. I have no problem saying that CAUSE IT IS ABOUT THE REWARDS!
If you say otherwise, then play the friendly mode. You get all the benefits of enjoying the mode without those pesky rewards you claim to not care about.
“The Rewards aren't worth much at all if your chances of even starting to make progress are squashed at the gate.”
“I'm discussing the reasonability of the Matches starting out and having something leveling them out up to a certain point. I am not talking about the amount of Rewards people can get.”
“There still has to be some sort of even playing field at the beginning in order to prevent them from being inhibited from making any progress. No one is disputing an easier path to Rewards for them.”
The problem with these statements is that matches and rewards are inextricably tied together. If they weren’t, no one would be arguing for a better “experience” because it wouldn’t matter. (I may be wrong, but I’m betting there aren’t many players who enjoy just playing Training Grounds over and over.)
Whether you realize it or not, what you actually want is a head start, not a reasonable start—one that lets smaller rosters enjoy a little success against each other at the outset.
The ironic thing is that many of the Paragons you rail against don’t mind some type of tailored version of this. To wit, an example from earlier in this thread:
“If your stance is simply that lower rated accounts should only begin by facing lower rated accounts for a couple of tiers (say, Bronze and Silver), then that’s not what’s come across to me.
I think, however, that most players would find that generally less objectionable…”
That kind of tailored head start has potential to get developing players into a pretty sweet spot for prizes (as @DNA3000 showed above)—prizes that can help them develop their rosters and become more competitive or to progress in other areas of the Contest.
Dr. Zola
My comments were directed towards the Players still pushing for a random from-the-onset model because of the Rewards. Quite frankly, it's almost dissociative how the same argument is being made. Rewards are not the issue. The issue is how disadvantageous it is starting out.
My prestige could be 3000 points lower, and I could still have an advantage over you by having the right champs for the meta. Case in point, Crossbones will likely be a great attacker in the season 5 meta, but his prestige is garbage.
So advantages can come in many forms, and yes, I would like any advantage I can get. Before you try to trap me on that though, as I've said before, I'm not advocating to simply beat up on lower accounts. I'm advocating for fairness by way of random match making. If that means my first 25 matches are against higher strength accounts, so be it.
All that said, let's not confuse an advantage with fairness. An advantage is as simple as exploiting someone else's weakness. If I see my opponent draft 5 mystics, you better believe I'm gonna draft Torch if he pops up, and I'm probably gonna use him on defense. That's not unfair. That's exploiting your weakness, or, seeking an advantage.
An advantage is not unfair however.
The definition of fair is: "impartial and just, without favoritism and discrimination".
That's exactly what you have when you have a metric evening people out at the start. No one is being favored or discriminated against. People are starting out the same even way everyone else is.
What you're suggesting is the opposite of a fair start. A system that favors the highest Accounts and creates a system that not only penalizes the lower ones, but inhibits them from weeks of potential progress.
What Kabam consider as “fair” and what “not fair”.
Have people developed their accounts all these years, to get them neutralised by a matchmaking system, because it would be “unfair” to use them against the competition?
One day left, till new BGs season starts.
Another lost season for many accounts 😠