Gladiator Circuit Should Matcmake according To Prestige or Total Hero Rating

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  • DrZolaDrZola Member Posts: 9,122 ★★★★★
    edited February 2023

    DrZola said:

    TyEdge said:

    Anything that disincentivizes rankups and roster growth/improvement is objectively wrong and bad game design. Period.

    I would prefer staggered starts based on progression (bronze UC, silver Cav, and gold TB/P) with lower level rank rewards being mailed at season kickoff. That means if you’re paragon and start right away, it’s all TB/P players. If you wait or start slow, some cavs or UCs might sneak in.

    Alternatively, matchmaking should be truly random strictly by tier (bronze etc). Just like war, roster and skill determine the outcome. Great skill CAN overcome a weaker roster.

    Finally, as I keep begging, reduce the loss penalty. Double the medals needed to advance (or 2->3, 3->5) and do two for a win, minus one for a loss.

    A corral start (or wave start) is an interesting concept to try with BGs—if that’s what you mean. But I’m unsure how the automatic prize grants to larger accounts would be received by some of the players who want *equitable* chances at prizes.

    Dr. Zola
    For anyone that's getting to GC within the first week or even two weeks every season, those early Bronze-Gold tokens are basically auto grants already. All starting those people at the beginning each season does is make it even harder for people that struggle in the beginning or even all season.
    I think OP is saying basically that—clear out the lower levels so smaller accounts can have a go at each other in Bronze/Silver from the outset since Bronze/Silver are almost auto-wins for larger accounts in the first place. It certainly isn’t unheard of—for example, marathons often don’t make world class runners start behind the packs of grandma running clubs and first-timers.

    But, as you can see from the responses, I wasn’t far off with how I expected the @TyEdge suggestion to be received. In a word: hysteria.

    Parsing through all the posturing and evolving arguments, the people who claim to represent the *MCoC Little Guy* want a separate track in BGs up to a certain point or for a certain time period each season so they (a) don’t feel demoralized, (b) get good prizes or (c) some combination of (a) and (b).

    I would suspect most are receptive to this concept to a limited extent. Call it *fairness*, *equity* or outright charity—it doesn’t matter to me.

    If weaker players want a week or two to scramble against each other before they face open competition, I doubt it will make a significant difference in how things ultimately wind up. It may even be a boon to larger accounts who wait/can’t start immediately to catch those weaker players on the way up.

    Dr. Zola
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★
    It's not hysteria. It's hypocrisy. "We already have an advantage, so let's add an advantage, and another advantage because they might get an advantage."
    Dear Lord.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★

    It's not hysteria. It's hypocrisy. "We already have an advantage, so let's add an advantage, and another advantage because they might get an advantage."
    Dear Lord.

    Don't really think you're the one that should be throwing hypocrisy around with your absolutely laughable definition of "fairness"
    Giving people a reasonable variation in Matches at the beginning of the competition is not laughable. What's laughable is pitting a Paragon against an UC Player at the starting line and calling it fair. I don't care who feels entitled to do it.
  • TheWatcher_TheWatcher_ Member Posts: 153
    Let this argument CEASE. I am tired of seeing the same disagreements over the same topic. It is getting old. I have been noticing this every single season of what you call "BGs". How the creators of this game made BGs is how it is going to be. A saying I found on this alien device is "It is what it is". There may not be anything you could do to change that. So stop it with these witless arguments over the same thing. It will get you nowhere.

    Thus speaks, The Watcher!
  • TheWatcher_TheWatcher_ Member Posts: 153

    Let this argument CEASE. I am tired of seeing the same disagreements over the same topic. It is getting old. I have been noticing this every single season of what you call "BGs". How the creators of this game made BGs is how it is going to be. A saying I found on this alien device is "It is what it is". There may not be anything you could do to change that. So stop it with these witless arguments over the same thing. It will get you nowhere.

    Thus speaks, The Watcher!

    This new silly little skit where your pretending to be someone your not that you recently started is getting old very quickly. Based on your recent dialog, I can't help but assume your an experienced forums user with a different account, which I'll assume was banned or you just randomly decided it would be funny for your recent nonsense responses of pretending to be an alien.

    I don't see how anyone can find it even remotely entertaining.
    Why can't I have a little fun. The watcher is my favorite being in the marvel universe. I may not be him but that does not mater. I just enjoy his character and the wise words that he says. Plus who said I am experienced with forums or had my forums account banned. This is new to me and i just made this account. Also why do you always have this negative energy towards people on forums. I have seen you in some on forum discussions.
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★

    Let this argument CEASE. I am tired of seeing the same disagreements over the same topic. It is getting old. I have been noticing this every single season of what you call "BGs". How the creators of this game made BGs is how it is going to be. A saying I found on this alien device is "It is what it is". There may not be anything you could do to change that. So stop it with these witless arguments over the same thing. It will get you nowhere.

    Thus speaks, The Watcher!

    This new silly little skit where your pretending to be someone your not that you recently started is getting old very quickly. Based on your recent dialog, I can't help but assume your an experienced forums user with a different account, which I'll assume was banned or you just randomly decided it would be funny for your recent nonsense responses of pretending to be an alien.

    I don't see how anyone can find it even remotely entertaining.
    If you didn't take things so seriously for once you'd be happier person, stop being so grumpy 🤣
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★
    mgj0630 said:

    Excuse me @GroundedWisdom, I don't have the time or patience to find the numerous times you've commented to the effect of "It's not about rewards" & "I'm happy with the few thousand shards I get"....

    Why, oh why, are you opposed to this? It gives you what you want, which is your comical definition of fairness and the other side gets rewards that, let's be honest, we would have gotten anyway, this system just proposes giving them immediately in exchange for clearing the paths for the lower accounts for a bit.

    In the modern world, that's called a compromise. Seems like a pretty reasonable one to me.

    What I want has nothing to do with my own Account. I know it's a novel concept for someone to care about an issue without getting something out of it, but that's the stance.
  • TheWatcher_TheWatcher_ Member Posts: 153

    Let this argument CEASE. I am tired of seeing the same disagreements over the same topic. It is getting old. I have been noticing this every single season of what you call "BGs". How the creators of this game made BGs is how it is going to be. A saying I found on this alien device is "It is what it is". There may not be anything you could do to change that. So stop it with these witless arguments over the same thing. It will get you nowhere.

    Thus speaks, The Watcher!

    This new silly little skit where your pretending to be someone your not that you recently started is getting old very quickly. Based on your recent dialog, I can't help but assume your an experienced forums user with a different account, which I'll assume was banned or you just randomly decided it would be funny for your recent nonsense responses of pretending to be an alien.

    I don't see how anyone can find it even remotely entertaining.
    If you didn't take things so seriously for once you'd be happier person, stop being so grumpy 🤣
    Yup, this just but a joke for me
  • TyEdgeTyEdge Member Posts: 3,116 ★★★★★
    DrZola said:

    TyEdge said:

    Anything that disincentivizes rankups and roster growth/improvement is objectively wrong and bad game design. Period.

    I would prefer staggered starts based on progression (bronze UC, silver Cav, and gold TB/P) with lower level rank rewards being mailed at season kickoff. That means if you’re paragon and start right away, it’s all TB/P players. If you wait or start slow, some cavs or UCs might sneak in.

    Alternatively, matchmaking should be truly random strictly by tier (bronze etc). Just like war, roster and skill determine the outcome. Great skill CAN overcome a weaker roster.

    Finally, as I keep begging, reduce the loss penalty. Double the medals needed to advance (or 2->3, 3->5) and do two for a win, minus one for a loss.

    A corral start (or wave start) is an interesting concept to try with BGs—if that’s what you mean. But I’m unsure how the automatic prize grants to larger accounts would be received by some of the players who want *equitable* chances at prizes.

    Dr. Zola
    I have a few thoughts here.

    1) bronze and silver award just under 10,000 total tokens iirc. Even at paragon, that’s not earth shattering. Most of these accounts bank that quickly anyway. If that doesn’t feel right, incorporate these rewards into solo milestones or something.

    2) it incentivizes story progression for newer players. They shouldn’t be charging into battlegrounds repeatedly until they hit a talent/roster wall. They should be getting cavalier and building their roster.

    3) removing paragon and TB players from the bronze and silver pools will make it easier for uncollected players to fight their way out. And again, if that’s too much, start TB/P in silver 3 and UC/Cav in bronze. Many players sit out early days of the season because of the number of grinders rushing to GC dealing out beatdowns.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★
    Conveniently giving people an automatic boost up the ladder with Rewards just for starting. How altruistic.
  • Wozzle007Wozzle007 Member Posts: 1,033 ★★★★★
    My understanding is that although an uncollected player and me as a Paragon player may get the same amount of Trophy Tokens, what’s available in the BG store and at what cost is very different. So they aren’t exactly the same rewards. I have a degree of sympathy that the first few rounds of Victory Track should keep us separate. But by the time we’re in gold it should just a be pool of all players and a random assignment. My happen Kabam. It’s the will of the people. Or at the very least the will or Me. The will of One. That’s enough feedback for a change isn’t it???
  • PikoluPikolu Member, Guardian Posts: 7,732 Guardian

    Conveniently giving people an automatic boost up the ladder with Rewards just for starting. How altruistic.

    You do realize that smaller accounts would then only be fighting smaller accounts and have more fairness in their early matches. Do you prefer the current system where a Cav or UC could match a paragon in bronze?

    A staggered start would be much more fair so the biggest accounts aren't being matched against smaller accounts right at the beginning of every season crushing the morale of the smaller accounts.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★
    Pikolu said:

    Conveniently giving people an automatic boost up the ladder with Rewards just for starting. How altruistic.

    You do realize that smaller accounts would then only be fighting smaller accounts and have more fairness in their early matches. Do you prefer the current system where a Cav or UC could match a paragon in bronze?

    A staggered start would be much more fair so the biggest accounts aren't being matched against smaller accounts right at the beginning of every season crushing the morale of the smaller accounts.
    What I prefer is what I suggested. They're also not gaining any more advantage than anyone else in those first few Tiers because people are matching the same way.
    What you're saying is, the only alternatives are to decimate them in Bronze, or give a boost to everyone else from the get-go. It honestly astounds me how people will try and justify any advantage they can.
    They are not getting an advantage from having relatively-even Matches starting out. No one is. That's the point.
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    TyEdge said:

    DrZola said:

    TyEdge said:

    Anything that disincentivizes rankups and roster growth/improvement is objectively wrong and bad game design. Period.

    I would prefer staggered starts based on progression (bronze UC, silver Cav, and gold TB/P) with lower level rank rewards being mailed at season kickoff. That means if you’re paragon and start right away, it’s all TB/P players. If you wait or start slow, some cavs or UCs might sneak in.

    Alternatively, matchmaking should be truly random strictly by tier (bronze etc). Just like war, roster and skill determine the outcome. Great skill CAN overcome a weaker roster.

    Finally, as I keep begging, reduce the loss penalty. Double the medals needed to advance (or 2->3, 3->5) and do two for a win, minus one for a loss.

    A corral start (or wave start) is an interesting concept to try with BGs—if that’s what you mean. But I’m unsure how the automatic prize grants to larger accounts would be received by some of the players who want *equitable* chances at prizes.

    Dr. Zola
    I have a few thoughts here.

    1) bronze and silver award just under 10,000 total tokens iirc. Even at paragon, that’s not earth shattering. Most of these accounts bank that quickly anyway. If that doesn’t feel right, incorporate these rewards into solo milestones or something.

    2) it incentivizes story progression for newer players. They shouldn’t be charging into battlegrounds repeatedly until they hit a talent/roster wall. They should be getting cavalier and building their roster.

    3) removing paragon and TB players from the bronze and silver pools will make it easier for uncollected players to fight their way out. And again, if that’s too much, start TB/P in silver 3 and UC/Cav in bronze. Many players sit out early days of the season because of the number of grinders rushing to GC dealing out beatdowns.
    Now this is something I can agree with and I believe would be one of the best solutions. Start each player on a different league based on their progression and of course random matchmaking from the get go, the lower accounts don't have to face big accounts from the get go and everyone can enjoy battlegrounds. That was really my only concern with random matchmaking for everyone regardless of league.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★

    TyEdge said:

    DrZola said:

    TyEdge said:

    Anything that disincentivizes rankups and roster growth/improvement is objectively wrong and bad game design. Period.

    I would prefer staggered starts based on progression (bronze UC, silver Cav, and gold TB/P) with lower level rank rewards being mailed at season kickoff. That means if you’re paragon and start right away, it’s all TB/P players. If you wait or start slow, some cavs or UCs might sneak in.

    Alternatively, matchmaking should be truly random strictly by tier (bronze etc). Just like war, roster and skill determine the outcome. Great skill CAN overcome a weaker roster.

    Finally, as I keep begging, reduce the loss penalty. Double the medals needed to advance (or 2->3, 3->5) and do two for a win, minus one for a loss.

    A corral start (or wave start) is an interesting concept to try with BGs—if that’s what you mean. But I’m unsure how the automatic prize grants to larger accounts would be received by some of the players who want *equitable* chances at prizes.

    Dr. Zola
    I have a few thoughts here.

    1) bronze and silver award just under 10,000 total tokens iirc. Even at paragon, that’s not earth shattering. Most of these accounts bank that quickly anyway. If that doesn’t feel right, incorporate these rewards into solo milestones or something.

    2) it incentivizes story progression for newer players. They shouldn’t be charging into battlegrounds repeatedly until they hit a talent/roster wall. They should be getting cavalier and building their roster.

    3) removing paragon and TB players from the bronze and silver pools will make it easier for uncollected players to fight their way out. And again, if that’s too much, start TB/P in silver 3 and UC/Cav in bronze. Many players sit out early days of the season because of the number of grinders rushing to GC dealing out beatdowns.
    Now this is something I can agree with and I believe would be one of the best solutions. Start each player on a different league based on their progression and of course random matchmaking from the get go, the lower accounts don't have to face big accounts from the get go and everyone can enjoy battlegrounds. That was really my only concern with random matchmaking for everyone regardless of league.
    There are issues with that suggestion.
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★

    TyEdge said:

    DrZola said:

    TyEdge said:

    Anything that disincentivizes rankups and roster growth/improvement is objectively wrong and bad game design. Period.

    I would prefer staggered starts based on progression (bronze UC, silver Cav, and gold TB/P) with lower level rank rewards being mailed at season kickoff. That means if you’re paragon and start right away, it’s all TB/P players. If you wait or start slow, some cavs or UCs might sneak in.

    Alternatively, matchmaking should be truly random strictly by tier (bronze etc). Just like war, roster and skill determine the outcome. Great skill CAN overcome a weaker roster.

    Finally, as I keep begging, reduce the loss penalty. Double the medals needed to advance (or 2->3, 3->5) and do two for a win, minus one for a loss.

    A corral start (or wave start) is an interesting concept to try with BGs—if that’s what you mean. But I’m unsure how the automatic prize grants to larger accounts would be received by some of the players who want *equitable* chances at prizes.

    Dr. Zola
    I have a few thoughts here.

    1) bronze and silver award just under 10,000 total tokens iirc. Even at paragon, that’s not earth shattering. Most of these accounts bank that quickly anyway. If that doesn’t feel right, incorporate these rewards into solo milestones or something.

    2) it incentivizes story progression for newer players. They shouldn’t be charging into battlegrounds repeatedly until they hit a talent/roster wall. They should be getting cavalier and building their roster.

    3) removing paragon and TB players from the bronze and silver pools will make it easier for uncollected players to fight their way out. And again, if that’s too much, start TB/P in silver 3 and UC/Cav in bronze. Many players sit out early days of the season because of the number of grinders rushing to GC dealing out beatdowns.
    Now this is something I can agree with and I believe would be one of the best solutions. Start each player on a different league based on their progression and of course random matchmaking from the get go, the lower accounts don't have to face big accounts from the get go and everyone can enjoy battlegrounds. That was really my only concern with random matchmaking for everyone regardless of league.
    There are issues with that suggestion.
    Yeah but I can get behind those issues personally. Not that it would be 100% fair but I would be able to play the game mode and get my rewards while the rest can climb up quicker so I can too, the faster Paragons and TB move up the faster I will move up too (assuming matchmaking was random). So no, I don't mind personally.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★
    On paper, I can see how that could be considered a solution. In practical terms, it skews the results before the competition even starts. The suggestion was also accompanied by the suggestion that the Rewards for previous Brackets be included at the start. Which is preposterous to me.
    Essentially, it's the same as letting people pick them apart in Bronze. Same results. I would benefit myself at TB. However, I'm not looking to benefit at someone else's expense unless I beat them and earn my way up.
    If we were going to even go that route, you could just keep UC and Cav in the VT, and TB and Para in the GC. That unfortunately prevents people from playing smart and advancing.
    So why is that a problem? In practical terms, it stops anyone from advancing past a certain point. Naturally this happens when someone fights their way up and can't get past their limitations. Separating the Brackets based on Titles almost certainly predestines it.
    That makes it less of a competition and more of a combination of War and AQ.
  • GreekhitGreekhit Member Posts: 2,820 ★★★★★

    TyEdge said:

    DrZola said:

    TyEdge said:

    Anything that disincentivizes rankups and roster growth/improvement is objectively wrong and bad game design. Period.

    I would prefer staggered starts based on progression (bronze UC, silver Cav, and gold TB/P) with lower level rank rewards being mailed at season kickoff. That means if you’re paragon and start right away, it’s all TB/P players. If you wait or start slow, some cavs or UCs might sneak in.

    Alternatively, matchmaking should be truly random strictly by tier (bronze etc). Just like war, roster and skill determine the outcome. Great skill CAN overcome a weaker roster.

    Finally, as I keep begging, reduce the loss penalty. Double the medals needed to advance (or 2->3, 3->5) and do two for a win, minus one for a loss.

    A corral start (or wave start) is an interesting concept to try with BGs—if that’s what you mean. But I’m unsure how the automatic prize grants to larger accounts would be received by some of the players who want *equitable* chances at prizes.

    Dr. Zola
    I have a few thoughts here.

    1) bronze and silver award just under 10,000 total tokens iirc. Even at paragon, that’s not earth shattering. Most of these accounts bank that quickly anyway. If that doesn’t feel right, incorporate these rewards into solo milestones or something.

    2) it incentivizes story progression for newer players. They shouldn’t be charging into battlegrounds repeatedly until they hit a talent/roster wall. They should be getting cavalier and building their roster.

    3) removing paragon and TB players from the bronze and silver pools will make it easier for uncollected players to fight their way out. And again, if that’s too much, start TB/P in silver 3 and UC/Cav in bronze. Many players sit out early days of the season because of the number of grinders rushing to GC dealing out beatdowns.
    Now this is something I can agree with and I believe would be one of the best solutions. Start each player on a different league based on their progression and of course random matchmaking from the get go, the lower accounts don't have to face big accounts from the get go and everyone can enjoy battlegrounds. That was really my only concern with random matchmaking for everyone regardless of league.
    There are issues with that suggestion.
    What issues there are?
    Many other games that I have played, use “kick starts” on competitive modes also, with huge success.
    But all the games I have played, have random matchmaking on competitive modes. Only tier or mode rating determines the matches.
    I’m personally not aware of any game, that manipulates matchmaking in competitive modes, in order to favour specific players/accounts.
    Kabam is more likely to be pioneering on this.
    Prestige matchmaking is unfair and opposed to any definition of competition.
    You can’t have a matchmaking that favours some competitors, and call it a competition, because it’s not.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★
    What you call manipulating to favor Accounts is actually people starting out at the same start line. In fact, all the suggestions otherwise I've heard are favoritism.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★
    *Most of them.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★
    Greekhit said:

    What you call manipulating to favor Accounts is actually people starting out at the same start line. In fact, all the suggestions otherwise I've heard are favoritism.

    So all the suggestions you’ve heard are favouritism, despite so many other games use them (including MCOC at AW), but Prestige matchmaking ain’t?
    🤯🤯🤯
    Pretty sure I aired my grievances about War already. Have you been following?
  • GreekhitGreekhit Member Posts: 2,820 ★★★★★

    Greekhit said:

    What you call manipulating to favor Accounts is actually people starting out at the same start line. In fact, all the suggestions otherwise I've heard are favoritism.

    So all the suggestions you’ve heard are favouritism, despite so many other games use them (including MCOC at AW), but Prestige matchmaking ain’t?
    🤯🤯🤯
    Pretty sure I aired my grievances about War already. Have you been following?
    I can’t follow and read all posts from all users, I don’t have the time.
    Also, what’s wrong with AW?
    As it is set up, anyone gets what he is trying and is worth of.
    AW is nearly as fair as it gets. I give that to Kabam.
    It doesn’t favour anyone, in contrast with BGs 😠
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,567 ★★★★★
    Greekhit said:

    Greekhit said:

    What you call manipulating to favor Accounts is actually people starting out at the same start line. In fact, all the suggestions otherwise I've heard are favoritism.

    So all the suggestions you’ve heard are favouritism, despite so many other games use them (including MCOC at AW), but Prestige matchmaking ain’t?
    🤯🤯🤯
    Pretty sure I aired my grievances about War already. Have you been following?
    I can’t follow and read all posts from all users, I don’t have the time.
    Also, what’s wrong with AW?
    As it is set up, anyone gets what he is trying and is worth of.
    AW is nearly as fair as it gets. I give that to Kabam.
    It doesn’t favour anyone, in contrast with BGs 😠
    I'm not reiterating here. You're free to use the Search Function with my name associated with War.
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★

    On paper, I can see how that could be considered a solution. In practical terms, it skews the results before the competition even starts. The suggestion was also accompanied by the suggestion that the Rewards for previous Brackets be included at the start. Which is preposterous to me.
    Essentially, it's the same as letting people pick them apart in Bronze. Same results. I would benefit myself at TB. However, I'm not looking to benefit at someone else's expense unless I beat them and earn my way up.
    If we were going to even go that route, you could just keep UC and Cav in the VT, and TB and Para in the GC. That unfortunately prevents people from playing smart and advancing.
    So why is that a problem? In practical terms, it stops anyone from advancing past a certain point. Naturally this happens when someone fights their way up and can't get past their limitations. Separating the Brackets based on Titles almost certainly predestines it.
    That makes it less of a competition and more of a combination of War and AQ.

    I don't think it would skew any results, Paragons and TB should be at the top no matter what anyways.
    Eh not quite the same, one would make the first weeks of BGs a nightmare for lower accounts the other one is fixing that issue at the cost of well giving bigger accounts some rewards for free. I don't have an issue with that, like I said I just think anyone should be able to play BGs from the get go regardless of their progression level or title.
    Yes, and what's the argument there that there should be no limitations? Cause there should be, everyone should eventually hit a brick wall that's how competitive game modes work.
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