Gladiator Circuit Should Matcmake according To Prestige or Total Hero Rating

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Comments

  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,633 ★★★★★
    edited February 2023
    Greekhit said:

    I'm paragon and I'm being slaughtered from the start. It's one step forward one step back all the way.

    I basically quit last season after the first few days and stuck in silver 2. I've started this season with a win and 2 losses and I think I'm done. Progression is such an impossible slog with the current system

    It’s not a problem a Paragon being at Silver2, all good.
    As long as UC players can stroll VT till Gladiator Circuit, everything it’s fine 😂😂😂
    I don't believe anyone is pushing for anyone to have a fast track to the GC. Hence the suggestion about a limited intervention. Whether it's Paragon or UC, we're still going to have our share of Wins and Losses.
  • L1zardW1zardL1zardW1zard Member Posts: 144 ★★★
    edited February 2023
    mgj0630 said:

    mgj0630 said:

    mgj0630 said:

    So let's pretend for a moment that the lower prestige accounts only get matched against comparative accounts for the first 3 tiers.

    How long will it be before the same group of players resurfaces because they can't get past the fourth tier? Then the fifth? The the sixth?

    That's irrelevant, the whole point here is that there shouldn't be a brick wall for lower players from the get go. Later on it's a different story but on Bronze? That's ridiculous.
    If you were a lower player would you want to be stuck trying to get out of bronze for a whole week and keep losing the streak because random matchmaking screws you over and matches you with a Paragon or a TB on a league where fights shouldn't be too hard for anyone? I was UC too with a bunch of maxed out 4* at some point and I wouldn't have wanted that back then.
    Would I want that? No, I wouldn't.

    Would I come here complaining that it's not fair to get beat by someone with a stronger account when I'm competing for the same thing? No, I wouldn't.

    Would I do my best while simultaneously building my roster strength through the numerous other pieces of content available to me, and have a sense of satisfaction by measuring my BG progression in each subsequent season? Yes, I would.
    What progress?
    Allow me to give you a brief MCoC tutorial.

    There's this stuff called permanent content, like story quests. Here's a picture to help identify them:


    When you complete that content you get rewards. They look like this:


    You use those rewards to rank up champs.

    That's how you progress. And the great news is, they release new stuff every month, so you can keep progressing. It's really cool. Perhaps you should try it sometime. If you give it enough effort, you may not need to complain about one singular piece of content being so cruel and demoralizing.

    Cheers!

    JuSt DoN't PlAy bGs aNd FoCuS oN oThEr ConTEnT💀what kind of dumb argument is that just make the game mode exclusive for Paragons at that point
  • L1zardW1zardL1zardW1zard Member Posts: 144 ★★★
    mgj0630 said:

    mgj0630 said:

    So let's pretend for a moment that the lower prestige accounts only get matched against comparative accounts for the first 3 tiers.

    How long will it be before the same group of players resurfaces because they can't get past the fourth tier? Then the fifth? The the sixth?

    That's irrelevant, the whole point here is that there shouldn't be a brick wall for lower players from the get go. Later on it's a different story but on Bronze? That's ridiculous.
    If you were a lower player would you want to be stuck trying to get out of bronze for a whole week and keep losing the streak because random matchmaking screws you over and matches you with a Paragon or a TB on a league where fights shouldn't be too hard for anyone? I was UC too with a bunch of maxed out 4* at some point and I wouldn't have wanted that back then.
    Would I want that? No, I wouldn't.

    Would I come here complaining that it's not fair to get beat by someone with a stronger account when I'm competing for the same thing? No, I wouldn't.

    Would I do my best while simultaneously building my roster strength through the numerous other pieces of content available to me, and have a sense of satisfaction by measuring my BG progression in each subsequent season? Yes, I would.
    Again, there would be no issue if you were asking for random matchmaking after gold (most Paragons in the forums mentioned that's where they got stuck so doing random matchmaking as soon as you reach that league would make climbing up easier for bigger accounts and harder for smaller accounts, as it should be) to prevent what happened last season with smaller accounts making it to GC.
    What you're asking for here however is to have an even bigger advantage by making it so you can get matched with people who stand no chance right from the get go so you can climb up faster while they remain stuck in bronze unable to get ANY rewards for weeks. You don't see how this is biased?
  • mgj0630mgj0630 Member Posts: 1,100 ★★★★
    Who said not to play BGs? Just a few posts ago I said I would do my best season after season, measure my PROGRESS against the previous, and having a sense of satisfaction when outperforming my results from the previous season.

    NiCe TrY ThOuGh!
  • Banhammer_steBanhammer_ste Member Posts: 62
    I guess I'm on the lower end of paragon both in terms of roster and very possibly skill. I did a couple of the carina challenges. Robot was fairly easy, the spiders one was hell and I used about 60 revives so decide my relative skill level from that.

    At the moment I cannot climb in battlegrounds. I do not have any advantage to be made bigger. I am seemingly gimped from the start of the season in a way that lesser accounts don't seem to be.

    I am stuck unable to get much in the way of rewards. You don't see how this is biased?
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,633 ★★★★★
    mgj0630 said:

    mgj0630 said:

    mgj0630 said:

    So let's pretend for a moment that the lower prestige accounts only get matched against comparative accounts for the first 3 tiers.

    How long will it be before the same group of players resurfaces because they can't get past the fourth tier? Then the fifth? The the sixth?

    That's irrelevant, the whole point here is that there shouldn't be a brick wall for lower players from the get go. Later on it's a different story but on Bronze? That's ridiculous.
    If you were a lower player would you want to be stuck trying to get out of bronze for a whole week and keep losing the streak because random matchmaking screws you over and matches you with a Paragon or a TB on a league where fights shouldn't be too hard for anyone? I was UC too with a bunch of maxed out 4* at some point and I wouldn't have wanted that back then.
    Would I want that? No, I wouldn't.

    Would I come here complaining that it's not fair to get beat by someone with a stronger account when I'm competing for the same thing? No, I wouldn't.

    Would I do my best while simultaneously building my roster strength through the numerous other pieces of content available to me, and have a sense of satisfaction by measuring my BG progression in each subsequent season? Yes, I would.
    What progress?
    Allow me to give you a brief MCoC tutorial.

    There's this stuff called permanent content, like story quests. Here's a picture to help identify them:


    When you complete that content you get rewards. They look like this:


    You use those rewards to rank up champs.

    That's how you progress. And the great news is, they release new stuff every month, so you can keep progressing. It's really cool. Perhaps you should try it sometime. If you give it enough effort, you may not need to complain about one singular piece of content being so cruel and demoralizing.

    Cheers!

    Wow. What a concept! So people play Story and EQ, and they progress? That's amazing!
    That way they're included in an aspect of the game that they're not supposed to play because they have other things to do!
    Do you have any idea how arrogant that is?
  • L1zardW1zardL1zardW1zard Member Posts: 144 ★★★
    mgj0630 said:

    Who said not to play BGs? Just a few posts ago I said I would do my best season after season, measure my PROGRESS against the previous, and having a sense of satisfaction when outperforming my results from the previous season.

    NiCe TrY ThOuGh!

    If that's not what you're implying why bring up what everyone else already knows then? You're not the first one to discover story mode EQ etc everyone already knows that.
    Right, go try your best with maxed out 4* on bronze 3 against someone with a bunch of r4 6* I'm sure you'll have a good time and get a lot of satisfaction from such matches!
  • L1zardW1zardL1zardW1zard Member Posts: 144 ★★★

    I guess I'm on the lower end of paragon both in terms of roster and very possibly skill. I did a couple of the carina challenges. Robot was fairly easy, the spiders one was hell and I used about 60 revives so decide my relative skill level from that.

    At the moment I cannot climb in battlegrounds. I do not have any advantage to be made bigger. I am seemingly gimped from the start of the season in a way that lesser accounts don't seem to be.

    I am stuck unable to get much in the way of rewards. You don't see how this is biased?

    I'm not claiming we shouldn't have random matchmaking, we should, just not on bronze and silver cause then every single smaller account will be screwed. Getting out of bronze and silver has not been an issue for most Paragons, the problems start in gold.
  • GreekhitGreekhit Member Posts: 2,820 ★★★★★

    Last season I got something like 12 straight wins and got into silver 2 in the first day. I then went 7 wins in my next 18 fights and never got out of silver 2. I think pretty much every account was 1000 pi above me. PI isn't everything but it certainly tells you something. The one fight I had that looked like a sure win I got the 0 second fight bug and lost a fight I'd easily won.

    How long does 18 fights take? 3 hours maybe. So 3 hours with 0 progression. It's such a waste of time. I'd say the progression is more of an issue than the matchmaking.

    All those fights counted for more or less nothing and it isn't worth the time just for the scraps from the 48 hour events.

    What 48 hour events? You mean objectives?
    Even these are bugged and have disappeared now.
    So yes you are absolutely right, 3 hours with 0 progression.
    Battlegrounds for middle skilled TB/Paragons are a huge time waste at the moment.
    Better invest the time to play arena, gather units and buy the upcoming spring offers, which will probably have r5 mats, for Paragons at least.
  • MauledMauled Member, Guardian Posts: 3,957 Guardian
    edited February 2023

    (The rewards are the same as the current rewards - just VT/GC combined as there’d be none of each).

    A while back I proposed something akin to divisions with shorter seasons and just doing away with the Victory Track and Circuit. No match making parameters except for your bracket/division. After a season or two people would end up in the right place and the growing accounts could climb the ranks as they climb the AQ/AW ladder.

    This would do away with the unfair matchmaking and multiple streams of player sets in the victory track making rosters feel like they’re being punished for their skill not matching others of their own size.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,633 ★★★★★
    I've been coming up against Paragon Players in Bronze 2, and I'm TB, so evidently something has changed.
    I'm completely fine with whatever I Match. I just don't think the experience of people starting out in the competition is trivial. If that's the case, why allow them to compete if they're just going to be pinballed from the start? My view is the same as it was. You need to give people SOME kind of chance and incentive starting out. Otherwise they're going to be over it, fast.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,633 ★★★★★
    I'd rather they limit the competition and not have lower Players in it than use them as fishbait.
  • Graves_3Graves_3 Member Posts: 1,560 ★★★★★

    I've been coming up against Paragon Players in Bronze 2, and I'm TB, so evidently something has changed.
    I'm completely fine with whatever I Match. I just don't think the experience of people starting out in the competition is trivial. If that's the case, why allow them to compete if they're just going to be pinballed from the start? My view is the same as it was. You need to give people SOME kind of chance and incentive starting out. Otherwise they're going to be over it, fast.

    It was not a title based matchmaking but more of a prestige based.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,633 ★★★★★
    edited February 2023
    Graves_3 said:



    I've been coming up against Paragon Players in Bronze 2, and I'm TB, so evidently something has changed.
    I'm completely fine with whatever I Match. I just don't think the experience of people starting out in the competition is trivial. If that's the case, why allow them to compete if they're just going to be pinballed from the start? My view is the same as it was. You need to give people SOME kind of chance and incentive starting out. Otherwise they're going to be over it, fast.

    It was not a title based matchmaking but more of a prestige based.
    Don't see how. My Prestige wasn't that close. That was my point.
  • GreekhitGreekhit Member Posts: 2,820 ★★★★★

    Graves_3 said:



    I've been coming up against Paragon Players in Bronze 2, and I'm TB, so evidently something has changed.
    I'm completely fine with whatever I Match. I just don't think the experience of people starting out in the competition is trivial. If that's the case, why allow them to compete if they're just going to be pinballed from the start? My view is the same as it was. You need to give people SOME kind of chance and incentive starting out. Otherwise they're going to be over it, fast.

    It was not a title based matchmaking but more of a prestige based.
    Don't see how. My Prestige wasn't that close. That was my point.
    Matchmaking spreads it’s criteria if there is lower traffic, and struggles to find a match.
    Each X seconds that pass searching, the criteria are loosened in order to eventually find possible matches that will meet them.
    But be sure the main parameters are bracket and Prestige.
  • Graves_3Graves_3 Member Posts: 1,560 ★★★★★

    Graves_3 said:



    I've been coming up against Paragon Players in Bronze 2, and I'm TB, so evidently something has changed.
    I'm completely fine with whatever I Match. I just don't think the experience of people starting out in the competition is trivial. If that's the case, why allow them to compete if they're just going to be pinballed from the start? My view is the same as it was. You need to give people SOME kind of chance and incentive starting out. Otherwise they're going to be over it, fast.

    It was not a title based matchmaking but more of a prestige based.
    Don't see how. My Prestige wasn't that close. That was my point.
    What’s your prestige? And your opponent’s prestige?
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,633 ★★★★★
    Graves_3 said:

    Graves_3 said:



    I've been coming up against Paragon Players in Bronze 2, and I'm TB, so evidently something has changed.
    I'm completely fine with whatever I Match. I just don't think the experience of people starting out in the competition is trivial. If that's the case, why allow them to compete if they're just going to be pinballed from the start? My view is the same as it was. You need to give people SOME kind of chance and incentive starting out. Otherwise they're going to be over it, fast.

    It was not a title based matchmaking but more of a prestige based.
    Don't see how. My Prestige wasn't that close. That was my point.
    What’s your prestige? And your opponent’s prestige?
    Well, I have one R4, and they definitely had a healthy Roster. I don't care personally. My own Matches aren't a concern for me. I've got enough Champs that I'm either going to win or be beaten. Just seemed a little more broad.

  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,633 ★★★★★
    I really don't care for myself personally. I'm happy with what I do. I keep it light, make some Shards each month, and toss them into an extra Featured..
    I just hope whatever they come up with has all Players having a fair start in mind. I'm sorry, but I do not agree that it's fair to match the lowest with the highest in Bronze 3 or so just because it's the same Bracket and it's random.
  • Graves_3Graves_3 Member Posts: 1,560 ★★★★★

    Graves_3 said:

    Graves_3 said:



    I've been coming up against Paragon Players in Bronze 2, and I'm TB, so evidently something has changed.
    I'm completely fine with whatever I Match. I just don't think the experience of people starting out in the competition is trivial. If that's the case, why allow them to compete if they're just going to be pinballed from the start? My view is the same as it was. You need to give people SOME kind of chance and incentive starting out. Otherwise they're going to be over it, fast.

    It was not a title based matchmaking but more of a prestige based.
    Don't see how. My Prestige wasn't that close. That was my point.
    What’s your prestige? And your opponent’s prestige?
    Well, I have one R4, and they definitely had a healthy Roster. I don't care personally. My own Matches aren't a concern for me. I've got enough Champs that I'm either going to win or be beaten. Just seemed a little more broad.

    Looks like DNA was right about prestige bands and congrats on moving up to the bottom of the higher prestige band.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,633 ★★★★★
    Graves_3 said:

    Graves_3 said:

    Graves_3 said:



    I've been coming up against Paragon Players in Bronze 2, and I'm TB, so evidently something has changed.
    I'm completely fine with whatever I Match. I just don't think the experience of people starting out in the competition is trivial. If that's the case, why allow them to compete if they're just going to be pinballed from the start? My view is the same as it was. You need to give people SOME kind of chance and incentive starting out. Otherwise they're going to be over it, fast.

    It was not a title based matchmaking but more of a prestige based.
    Don't see how. My Prestige wasn't that close. That was my point.
    What’s your prestige? And your opponent’s prestige?
    Well, I have one R4, and they definitely had a healthy Roster. I don't care personally. My own Matches aren't a concern for me. I've got enough Champs that I'm either going to win or be beaten. Just seemed a little more broad.

    Looks like DNA was right about prestige bands and congrats on moving up to the bottom of the higher prestige band.
    It was a difference of at least 2-3k Prestige. Which, to be honest, I would have been fine with. That was one of the suggestions I originally made. Increase the variation so it could still be within challenge range, but allow people to progress.
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  • Banhammer_steBanhammer_ste Member Posts: 62
    I'm coming to the realisation it's the progression system. Summoners at all levels are probably stuck at very low levels of the vt because of the loss mechanic.

    It's a zero sum game. For someone to win and progress someone has to lose and take a step back towards zero.

    Only those with a 60%+ win rate are going to progress at any speed.

    Nearly half of summoners will have a sub 50% win rate. They're winning one/losing one at best. Only the occasional streak will allow them to progress otherwise they're going to be going nowhere.

    The bracketing just highlights what a bad system it is. The top 30% of uncollected players are shooting straight into the gc while the bottom 50% of paragon players are going nowhere.

    It's the most rewarding game mode at the moment. Summoners are definitely going to try to drop into a lower bracket by intentionally not engaging with relics and only using sig stones or making rank ups when they're really necessary.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,633 ★★★★★
    That isn't likely going to be a widespread thing. Anyone that competitive is going to care about their Prestige. Besides the fact that it's going to go up no matter what. Unless they plan on stockpiling Rewards for nothing.
    I agree there is an issue if the lowest Players are getting there faster than the upper crust. Although they're not going to get much farther than that because the GC is Bracket-based. I still have to stress the fact that we ALL have to win to move up, and that won't change by preventing lower Players from advancing.
    I just want to see some sort of reasonable start for people is all. It's not about shooting up to the GC. Just something less extreme than being bashed about just to accelerate Matches they have no chance of winning from the gate.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,633 ★★★★★
    I also feel the need to stress that people manipulating their Rosters is exactly how this situation started.
  • L1zardW1zardL1zardW1zard Member Posts: 144 ★★★
    Wouldn't be surprised if some of the people who are asking for matchmaking to be random even in the lowest leagues relied on sandbagging almost completely before the changes so now they want an advantage once again to compensate for lack of skill lol.
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