Also, Players need to be able to progress from Season to Season. The last thing I want to see is a monopoly on spots, with Players camping out every Season and feeling entitled to that spot. That model already exists.
I would agree to a certain extent that Players who are much lower advancing faster is an issue. To a certain extent. That extent depends entirely on whether or not it's a widespread issue, or a small number of skilled Players among a bunch of modders. As a principle, I'm not set on Paragons must progress more than anyone lower. Not as a given. Having the Title doesn't mean someone should automatically progress better than those competing better. It all depends on who is winning their Matches.
I don’t think most players believe higher progress players automatically should advance faster in BG. Rather, the UC that leaps into GC then complains the matches there are too hard becomes the poster child for the systemic issues with BGs current match system. No one would fault any low progress player for making it into GC under a ratings-based match system. They’d be applauded. But under the current system, they are and always will be viewed with suspicion. They become the focus of complaints because that’s the simple emotional reaction to an otherwise complex design disparity. Such complaints have to be taken in the context they are being delivered in.
They don’t all automatically deserve that suspicion, but it is ultimately Kabam’s fault for putting them in that position.
If you're going to compare the strength of what they're coming up against, you have to factor in what they're using to do it with.
The way I compare the strength of two players is I have them fight, and the winner was stronger.
Sure. If that strength doesn't include systems that multiply the strength of their Opponent, compounded by differences in Ranks, Rarities, CR, and other factors.
What exactly do you mean by strength then? It’s a video game. Not arm wrestling that you literally judge them based on brute strength and exclude all the other factors.
I would agree to a certain extent that Players who are much lower advancing faster is an issue. To a certain extent. That extent depends entirely on whether or not it's a widespread issue, or a small number of skilled Players among a bunch of modders. As a principle, I'm not set on Paragons must progress more than anyone lower. Not as a given. Having the Title doesn't mean someone should automatically progress better than those competing better. It all depends on who is winning their Matches.
I don’t think most players believe higher progress players automatically should advance faster in BG. Rather, the UC that leaps into GC then complains the matches there are too hard becomes the poster child for the systemic issues with BGs current match system. No one would fault any low progress player for making it into GC under a ratings-based match system. They’d be applauded. But under the current system, they are and always will be viewed with suspicion. They become the focus of complaints because that’s the simple emotional reaction to an otherwise complex design disparity. Such complaints have to be taken in the context they are being delivered in.
They don’t all automatically deserve that suspicion, but it is ultimately Kabam’s fault for putting them in that position.
I'm fine with them complaining the Matches are too hard in the GC, for the record. That's not what my point was. My point, and it continues to be my point, is it's equally disingenuous to complain they're succeeding in the current system without looking at one's performance. I might take issue with people bypassing me that are "noobs" (although I could care less), but that still leaves me to also look at why I am personally not winning the Matches I DO have. It's just a lack of looking at all sides that I'm speaking to, which often happens on here. Not necessarily you, because I think you're pretty good at being as well-rounded as possible in your views. Just in general. Part of it might be the system that allows them to advance. The other part is my own ability and Roster among those in my own vicinity. Which I'm fine with. I'm not the greatest Player by any means, but I'm also not totally useless. I'm where I'm at, and that has nothing to do with who else is passing me. Overall, I'm fine with people expressing their concerns. I'm just not sold on the idea that comparing Rosters means others shouldn't be passing me. Not as a given. If I'm not winning, that factors into it as well. I can be TB, or Paragon, or any Title. That doesn't mean I'm entitled to win.
My point, and it continues to be my point, is it's equally disingenuous to complain they're succeeding in the current system without looking at one's performance.
It is disingenuous to ignore the context in which the complaints are being made. Willfully ignoring the fact that majority of the complaints refer to the matchmaking system rather than the success of accounts benefiting from it. I don't think anyone made the claim that they should be winning or that others should not be passing them.
The complaints are simply that everyone should get a similar opportunity to progress. Which is not the case currently because matchmaking is only based on roster strength. It ignores both skills and game knowledge, which are going to be more varied at the lower progression levels rather than at the higher end. Everyone playing the same nodes alone does not make the competition equal.
That hasn't been the tone of this long conversation at all. Had it been, I would have said much less. The sentiment was they were getting an easy street to the GC, which I responded to as not completely accurate, that they didn't deserve their Rewards because they never fought the largest Accounts on their way up there, and that it's not fair for them to be in the GC while Paragons are stuck in the VT. It's been a long month, but I'm not that absent-minded.
*Which, let's be honest, this Thread is a continuation of the same conversation we've been having all along.
Which is pretty much every single person in forums disagreeing with you in all the threads. You ever get tired.of being "that guy" who disagrees with the majority just for the sake of arguing?
The sentiment was they were getting an easy street to the GC, which I responded to as not completely accurate.
They are getting an easy street to GC. It is by design and that is precisely what people are complaining about. It is completely accurate. Even adjusted for roster strengths, it is a far easier competition to progress in when restricted to facing lower progression accounts as compared to high end teams playing each other.
Your response has been that the nodes are same, hence all matchups are equal. If you have been playing the game for 7 years, it is unlikely that you believe that to be true. There is more to every PVP matchup beyond nodes and rosters. Current matchmaking makes no effort to take that into consideration.
I'm not going around and around the same arguments. I've made my points, whether people want to agree or not. There is another perspective that people are refusing to acknowledge, and I'm not going to ignore it just because people agree or disagree with it. There are more Players to account for than the top trying to get all the Rewards they can. I'm not concerned with everyone being happy. I'm just not letting a repeat of other systems be the outcome. Not when it comes to individual Players. They can't just join a better Alliance. It's their Accounts they're playing with, and I'm not staying silent while they're thrown into a system just to lose automatically and be used as propulsion to the GC for others. Until there's a reasonable solution for everyone, I'm going to continue to make points when they're not being heard. As for being someone in every Thread, I'm pretty sure this one was opened along with a number, as well as commenting on every Thread by the OP. So, glass houses and all. People talk about something they're passionate about. It's a discussion forum.
I'm not going around and around the same arguments. I've made my points, whether people want to agree or not. There is another perspective that people are refusing to acknowledge
You’ve made your points and almost every single person disagrees with you. We don’t disagree with you, just because it’s you. We disagree with you because we believe you are wrong. We don’t refuse to acknowledge your perspective we just disagree with it. You seem to refuse the perspective of 95% of people on the forum and seem ok with that. You decide you don’t like to the comparison between Battle Grounds competition and sports competition just because it doesn’t suit your narrative. But positively you’ve decided not to continue to go round and round with this, so that’s good.
Check this out here’s an example of win a streak go back 2 spaces How’s this possible 😵💫now back to silver 2 1 shield gained 😢
I think when it says your current rank, it means that’s the current rank you’ve fully completed, not the rank your in. So you’re trying to achieve silver 1, but not completed it yet, so your current completed rank is Silver 2. At least that my interpretation of it. It’s always been like this as far as I know. It shows the rank you’ve completed, not the rank your in and going for.
Can we all just agree that if you reach a new rank in VT, you should try some really weird stuff that probably causes you to lose your next two matches, then go back to normal play?
I believe that they will change unfair matchmaking after players will stop spending as it was previous in war matchmaking. After profit will go down than matchmaking will be fixed. And this time will be with introduction of 7 stars. People will be too afraid to progress the game and increase prestige so people will not spend money on 7 stars. I stoped open my relics and for sure will not open any 7 star until matchmaking will be fixed
See now I don't think they will change it, they'll tweak it, sure but if you think about it ... there is most likely a lot of Paragon players buying shields to progress through VT. I know a good 60% or so of the guys I face in plat 1 are using shields 🤷♂️ so from a profit perspective they're likely hitting the nail on the head but at the expense of great frustration in the top end of the player base
I'm not going around and around the same arguments. I've made my points, whether people want to agree or not. There is another perspective that people are refusing to acknowledge
You’ve made your points and almost every single person disagrees with you. We don’t disagree with you, just because it’s you. We disagree with you because we believe you are wrong. We don’t refuse to acknowledge your perspective we just disagree with it. You seem to refuse the perspective of 95% of people on the forum and seem ok with that. You decide you don’t like to the comparison between Battle Grounds competition and sports competition just because it doesn’t suit your narrative. But positively you’ve decided not to continue to go round and round with this, so that’s good.
I said I'm not going over and over the same arguments. I'm definitely not leaving the discussion.
"He" is not a contrarian. Nor do I gauge my points based on who agrees or disagrees with me. A number of people have agreed with my points. They're just ignored.
*Which, let's be honest, this Thread is a continuation of the same conversation we've been having all along.
Which is pretty much every single person in forums disagreeing with you in all the threads. You ever get tired.of being "that guy" who disagrees with the majority just for the sake of arguing?
There is simply no reason to even respond to him. We know exactly what he is going to say everytime. He's a contrarien, ever forum has at least one. Don't give them what they want.
I've been thinking this even though I've been reading it all lol folk have corrected him and simplified things over and over and he still ignores what they're saying 😂 it's actually quite comical
*Which, let's be honest, this Thread is a continuation of the same conversation we've been having all along.
Which is pretty much every single person in forums disagreeing with you in all the threads. You ever get tired.of being "that guy" who disagrees with the majority just for the sake of arguing?
There is simply no reason to even respond to him. We know exactly what he is going to say everytime. He's a contrarien, ever forum has at least one. Don't give them what they want.
I don't think I'd say contrarian. I'd go with avid debater. Sometimes their points can be a bit stuck on semantics or willfully tangential, but overall make for great conversation and round out the forum experience. I don't know how interesting it'd be if the whole forum was an echo chamber of "kabam got bugs" and "get good." I take issue with so many of their posts, but I also really like it. Speaking as one who agrees with some of the points they raised in this thread earlier.
I muted him a few years ago, as in my view he's a troll. He only ever takes the contrarian view and will do so belligerently and incessantly until the thread is shut down, because people get fed up with him and respond emotionally.
Happens like clockwork.
The forum and even this discussion, is so much more productive without having to wade through his comments, even though a good 20%+ must be responses to his pontifications.
On topic; his view on this is so out of touch with the basics of how progression games, particularly gacha based mobile games, work, it's almost staggering.
If you're going to compare the strength of what they're coming up against, you have to factor in what they're using to do it with.
The way I compare the strength of two players is I have them fight, and the winner was stronger.
Sure. If that strength doesn't include systems that multiply the strength of their Opponent, compounded by differences in Ranks, Rarities, CR, and other factors.
Does this mean that something like the gauntlet should account for lower players and adjust nodes accordingly so they aren't facing such steep conditions? If not, why not? Is the intention of each mode (to gain excellent rewards by various means) so different?
The Gauntlet is not open to Players UC and up, to the best of my knowledge.
So you want to bar low-level payers from BGs like they're bared from the Gauntlet. That we can agree on!
If you're going to compare the strength of what they're coming up against, you have to factor in what they're using to do it with.
The way I compare the strength of two players is I have them fight, and the winner was stronger.
Sure. If that strength doesn't include systems that multiply the strength of their Opponent, compounded by differences in Ranks, Rarities, CR, and other factors.
Does this mean that something like the gauntlet should account for lower players and adjust nodes accordingly so they aren't facing such steep conditions? If not, why not? Is the intention of each mode (to gain excellent rewards by various means) so different?
The Gauntlet is not open to Players UC and up, to the best of my knowledge.
So you want to bar low-level payers from BGs like they're bared from the Gauntlet. That we can agree on!
That's not what I said at all. I said it's open to them. Actually, I said I'd rather see them barred than let them be slaughtered at the gate, but that was less of a suggestion and more of a point being made.
Just a thought but the the real issue for me is the requirement to win 3 consecutively to move on to the next bracket. If they just changed it to win 3 without counting the losses against you things wouldn’t be so bad. The matchmaking isn’t great, but it is made way worse by the large number of brackets that must all by won by consecutive wins.
Comments
They don’t all automatically deserve that suspicion, but it is ultimately Kabam’s fault for putting them in that position.
It's just a lack of looking at all sides that I'm speaking to, which often happens on here. Not necessarily you, because I think you're pretty good at being as well-rounded as possible in your views. Just in general.
Part of it might be the system that allows them to advance. The other part is my own ability and Roster among those in my own vicinity. Which I'm fine with. I'm not the greatest Player by any means, but I'm also not totally useless. I'm where I'm at, and that has nothing to do with who else is passing me.
Overall, I'm fine with people expressing their concerns. I'm just not sold on the idea that comparing Rosters means others shouldn't be passing me. Not as a given. If I'm not winning, that factors into it as well. I can be TB, or Paragon, or any Title. That doesn't mean I'm entitled to win.
The complaints are simply that everyone should get a similar opportunity to progress. Which is not the case currently because matchmaking is only based on roster strength. It ignores both skills and game knowledge, which are going to be more varied at the lower progression levels rather than at the higher end. Everyone playing the same nodes alone does not make the competition equal.
It's been a long month, but I'm not that absent-minded.
Your response has been that the nodes are same, hence all matchups are equal. If you have been playing the game for 7 years, it is unlikely that you believe that to be true. There is more to every PVP matchup beyond nodes and rosters. Current matchmaking makes no effort to take that into consideration.
I'm not concerned with everyone being happy. I'm just not letting a repeat of other systems be the outcome. Not when it comes to individual Players. They can't just join a better Alliance. It's their Accounts they're playing with, and I'm not staying silent while they're thrown into a system just to lose automatically and be used as propulsion to the GC for others. Until there's a reasonable solution for everyone, I'm going to continue to make points when they're not being heard.
As for being someone in every Thread, I'm pretty sure this one was opened along with a number, as well as commenting on every Thread by the OP. So, glass houses and all. People talk about something they're passionate about. It's a discussion forum.
But positively you’ve decided not to continue to go round and round with this, so that’s good.
Happens like clockwork.
The forum and even this discussion, is so much more productive without having to wade through his comments, even though a good 20%+ must be responses to his pontifications.
On topic; his view on this is so out of touch with the basics of how progression games, particularly gacha based mobile games, work, it's almost staggering.