You are against matching discriminating based on strength, but are ok that store discriminates on strength. You can't have it both ways. Not in a game format that requires a large number of players to participate. BG will end up like incursions in that case.
In practice, if UC players had access to the Paragon store, they would earn basically no currency to spend in it.
In a random matchmaking set up, UC players cannot expect much progress, they would basically earn very little currency. The current BG store for UCs is not worth spending time on in that situation.
In random match making they would still occasionally match against each other.
Is that enough to maintain participation levels to sustain the game mode?
If I recall, you had mentioned that ~220K people played at least one BG match during the last season? Let's say 50% of those play matches every day (to meet the objectives). i.e. ~110K people play BG matches every day, if we assume they are evenly spread across the day that's ~5K players looking for a match every hour, implying a pool of less than 1,000 players to match in every 10 min interval. Factor in GC, VT tiers etc. that pool shrinks even further. This is not a setup where you want to remove incentives for playing.
Maybe I'm being harsh, maybe all 200K+ players play everyday, maybe they spend much more than 10-15 min on the game mode. Upside case, is that there are thousands of motivated players at any given moment and it's the Paragons who are not engaged enough with the game mode. In that case, it makes sense to sacrifice the lower accounts to boost engagement of the higher ones.
Realistically, I don't think there is an easy answer to matchmaking which sustains participation levels high enough and makes the mid-level Paragons happy (top end players are anyway progressing through).
Actually thats where u are wrong... Look at every Side quest or SOLO event thay had a currency as reward other than BG... Lower progressions always earn less and paid more... BG is the only one that had same milestone rewards, same objective rewards and same tier climb rewards for all progressions and the only difference is the store... If u r UC u r 3 progressions levels behind.. doesnt even make sense u r competing or playing against Paragons for rewards...
SQ paid less if you did lower difficulty, same difficulty gives the same amount of currency - complete threat level 5, you get threat level 5 rewards. In BG, difficulty is relative. A 10K roster vs. 10K roster is almost the same difficulty as 17k v 17k.
10K vs 17K is very easy for a 17K roster and almost impossible for a 10K roster. It's an EOP level match for the 10K and may threat level 2 for the 17K. The 10K players can play flawlessly 100% health, the most ideal rotation etc. and 9 out of 10 times they will still lose because the other match got over sooner. Conversely, the 17k player can take many hits, mess up a few times and will still win almost every one of those match-ups. But you want 17K to get top end rewards for doing this and 10K to get something worthless.
UC is competing with UC to get currency to buy UC rewards. Paragons and doing the same.
This is so unequivocally wrong that it's almost not worth discussing.
Why is it wrong? The result of a BG round is based on the relative results of the two fights in the round. A 6r4 has ~50% more attack and HP as compared to a 5r5 of the same champ.
Imagine a 5r5 roster facing off against an similar 5r5 roster - maybe they need 30 hits to K.O the defender, their opponents also need to land a similar number of hits in a similar amount of time to win the match.
When a 6r4 roster faces off against an equal 6r4 roster, the math is largely the same. Since HP and attack increases are almost equal.
When a 6r4 roster faces off against the same 5r5 roster - with a 6r4 champ you only need 20 hits to down the defender. On the other side, the 5r5 needs 45 hits to down the 6r4 defender. Even if the 5r5 plays a perfect game, there is very little chance that they win the match since the room for error with a 6r4 is so much more.
If you wants rewards at your progression level, you should at least be willing to face opponents at your progression level. Picking on teams with 2x handicaps to rake in rewards is not the Paragon thing to do.
The 10K roster who has progressed hasn't played any easier games than you did to get to your level. Because BG matches are relative not absolute.
Is winning a high school football game just as difficult as winning an NFL game?
For the teams involved yes.
Also, do NFL teams get rewarded based on their budget if they win the season?
If you gate rewards, you have to expect to gate competition as well.
This just proves that you have no idea what you're talking about. Did you ever play competitive sports? You honestly think that winning a HI game is the same as an NFL game for the teams invoiced? How is that even possible?
As for your second part, the NFL bars HIS teams from competing in their league so HS teams could never earn those rewards.
Why would you assume competitive sports are less competitive at lower levels? Skill levels are lower, sure, but that doesn't mean the matches are less competitive. Equally matched teams produce competitive games.
It is infinitely harder for anyone to get into an NFL team vs. a high school team or whatever lower league you want to consider. An NFL player playing in HS league would find it very easy, that doesn't mean HS teams playing other HS teams have it easier than NFL teams playing other NFL teams.
Actually thats where u are wrong... Look at every Side quest or SOLO event thay had a currency as reward other than BG... Lower progressions always earn less and paid more... BG is the only one that had same milestone rewards, same objective rewards and same tier climb rewards for all progressions and the only difference is the store... If u r UC u r 3 progressions levels behind.. doesnt even make sense u r competing or playing against Paragons for rewards...
SQ paid less if you did lower difficulty, same difficulty gives the same amount of currency - complete threat level 5, you get threat level 5 rewards. In BG, difficulty is relative. A 10K roster vs. 10K roster is almost the same difficulty as 17k v 17k.
10K vs 17K is very easy for a 17K roster and almost impossible for a 10K roster. It's an EOP level match for the 10K and may threat level 2 for the 17K. The 10K players can play flawlessly 100% health, the most ideal rotation etc. and 9 out of 10 times they will still lose because the other match got over sooner. Conversely, the 17k player can take many hits, mess up a few times and will still win almost every one of those match-ups. But you want 17K to get top end rewards for doing this and 10K to get something worthless.
UC is competing with UC to get currency to buy UC rewards. Paragons and doing the same.
This is so unequivocally wrong that it's almost not worth discussing.
Why is it wrong? The result of a BG round is based on the relative results of the two fights in the round. A 6r4 has ~50% more attack and HP as compared to a 5r5 of the same champ.
Imagine a 5r5 roster facing off against an similar 5r5 roster - maybe they need 30 hits to K.O the defender, their opponents also need to land a similar number of hits in a similar amount of time to win the match.
When a 6r4 roster faces off against an equal 6r4 roster, the math is largely the same. Since HP and attack increases are almost equal.
When a 6r4 roster faces off against the same 5r5 roster - with a 6r4 champ you only need 20 hits to down the defender. On the other side, the 5r5 needs 45 hits to down the 6r4 defender. Even if the 5r5 plays a perfect game, there is very little chance that they win the match since the room for error with a 6r4 is so much more.
If you wants rewards at your progression level, you should at least be willing to face opponents at your progression level. Picking on teams with 2x handicaps to rake in rewards is not the Paragon thing to do.
The 10K roster who has progressed hasn't played any easier games than you did to get to your level. Because BG matches are relative not absolute.
Is winning a high school football game just as difficult as winning an NFL game?
For the teams involved yes.
Also, do NFL teams get rewarded based on their budget if they win the season?
If you gate rewards, you have to expect to gate competition as well.
This just proves that you have no idea what you're talking about. Did you ever play competitive sports? You honestly think that winning a HI game is the same as an NFL game for the teams invoiced? How is that even possible?
As for your second part, the NFL bars HIS teams from competing in their league so HS teams could never earn those rewards.
So it's not a relevant comparison right? Why bring up absurd equivalencies.
If BG is a single competition, everyone should get the same rewards. Otherwise, it is what it is now, everyone plays at their level and then gets rewards for their level. The UCs/Cavs moving up VT are not blocking your progress. You don't get to tell them their progress is undeserved.
In BG, the nodes are the same at all levels of VT. What exactly is different when you face a 6r4 champ with a 6r4 champ vs. facing a 5r5 with a 5r5? Only things that are scored is Attacker HP, Defender HP and time taken for the fight.
Everybody gets it that you can beat the UCs/Cavs in BG on roster strength alone. Because roster strength gets magnified in a game mode that measures relative outcomes. Your roster rewards you in every other game mode, you don't have to dump on a few people moving up the tiers to display strength.
Once again, u should concentrate about your own progression other than BGs... Its not me saying it.. its Kabam
You are against matching discriminating based on strength, but are ok that store discriminates on strength. You can't have it both ways. Not in a game format that requires a large number of players to participate. BG will end up like incursions in that case.
In practice, if UC players had access to the Paragon store, they would earn basically no currency to spend in it.
In a random matchmaking set up, UC players cannot expect much progress, they would basically earn very little currency. The current BG store for UCs is not worth spending time on in that situation.
In random match making they would still occasionally match against each other.
Unfortunately the amount of times they would is small enough to discourage them from wanting to play the game mode.
For many players, sure, but if they could spend their tokens in the Paragon store any player with sufficient willpower and with any brains at all would be in there constantly. Just a few wins in an entire season would be instantly game changing.
And that was under S7 mechanics. Under S8 mechanics, even moreso because it would be even easier to hit the jackpot with promotions.
You are against matching discriminating based on strength, but are ok that store discriminates on strength. You can't have it both ways. Not in a game format that requires a large number of players to participate. BG will end up like incursions in that case.
In practice, if UC players had access to the Paragon store, they would earn basically no currency to spend in it.
In a random matchmaking set up, UC players cannot expect much progress, they would basically earn very little currency. The current BG store for UCs is not worth spending time on in that situation.
In random match making they would still occasionally match against each other.
Unfortunately the amount of times they would is small enough to discourage them from wanting to play the game mode.
For many players, sure, but if they could spend their tokens in the Paragon store any player with sufficient willpower and with any brains at all would be in there constantly. Just a few wins in an entire season would be instantly game changing.
And that was under S7 mechanics. Under S8 mechanics, even moreso because it would be even easier to hit the jackpot with promotions.
I don't entirely agree that holding on to Tokens until the Paragon Store is that large of a concern. Players that are genuinely trying to progress are going to be using their Tokens as they go. Otherwise what are they trying to earn Rewards for? The only other logical alternative is Players camping out with Alts, and I find that particularly detrimental to use as a gauge for Player needs. The jump from Uncollected to Paragon is quite a leap. I don't see Players hoarding the Tokens to make it there specifically in order to cash in.
You are against matching discriminating based on strength, but are ok that store discriminates on strength. You can't have it both ways. Not in a game format that requires a large number of players to participate. BG will end up like incursions in that case.
In practice, if UC players had access to the Paragon store, they would earn basically no currency to spend in it.
In a random matchmaking set up, UC players cannot expect much progress, they would basically earn very little currency. The current BG store for UCs is not worth spending time on in that situation.
In random match making they would still occasionally match against each other.
Unfortunately the amount of times they would is small enough to discourage them from wanting to play the game mode.
For many players, sure, but if they could spend their tokens in the Paragon store any player with sufficient willpower and with any brains at all would be in there constantly. Just a few wins in an entire season would be instantly game changing.
And that was under S7 mechanics. Under S8 mechanics, even moreso because it would be even easier to hit the jackpot with promotions.
I don't entirely agree that holding on to Tokens until the Paragon Store is that large of a concern.
That's not what I was talking about, at all. The original topic was the hypothetical of UC players having direct access to the Paragon store while they were still UC, and granting them identical access to Paragon rewards via BG tokens.
You are against matching discriminating based on strength, but are ok that store discriminates on strength. You can't have it both ways. Not in a game format that requires a large number of players to participate. BG will end up like incursions in that case.
In practice, if UC players had access to the Paragon store, they would earn basically no currency to spend in it.
In a random matchmaking set up, UC players cannot expect much progress, they would basically earn very little currency. The current BG store for UCs is not worth spending time on in that situation.
In random match making they would still occasionally match against each other.
Unfortunately the amount of times they would is small enough to discourage them from wanting to play the game mode.
For many players, sure, but if they could spend their tokens in the Paragon store any player with sufficient willpower and with any brains at all would be in there constantly. Just a few wins in an entire season would be instantly game changing.
And that was under S7 mechanics. Under S8 mechanics, even moreso because it would be even easier to hit the jackpot with promotions.
I don't entirely agree that holding on to Tokens until the Paragon Store is that large of a concern.
That's not what I was talking about, at all. The original topic was the hypothetical of UC players having direct access to the Paragon store while they were still UC, and granting them identical access to Paragon rewards via BG tokens.
Perhaps I misunderstood the comment. The fact is, the Rewards DO differ, since the Store places a varied value on Tokens based on Titles. The Milestones are the same, but the Tokens are only worth what's available.
Actually thats where u are wrong... Look at every Side quest or SOLO event thay had a currency as reward other than BG... Lower progressions always earn less and paid more... BG is the only one that had same milestone rewards, same objective rewards and same tier climb rewards for all progressions and the only difference is the store... If u r UC u r 3 progressions levels behind.. doesnt even make sense u r competing or playing against Paragons for rewards...
SQ paid less if you did lower difficulty, same difficulty gives the same amount of currency - complete threat level 5, you get threat level 5 rewards. In BG, difficulty is relative. A 10K roster vs. 10K roster is almost the same difficulty as 17k v 17k.
10K vs 17K is very easy for a 17K roster and almost impossible for a 10K roster. It's an EOP level match for the 10K and may threat level 2 for the 17K. The 10K players can play flawlessly 100% health, the most ideal rotation etc. and 9 out of 10 times they will still lose because the other match got over sooner. Conversely, the 17k player can take many hits, mess up a few times and will still win almost every one of those match-ups. But you want 17K to get top end rewards for doing this and 10K to get something worthless.
UC is competing with UC to get currency to buy UC rewards. Paragons and doing the same.
This is so unequivocally wrong that it's almost not worth discussing.
Why is it wrong? The result of a BG round is based on the relative results of the two fights in the round. A 6r4 has ~50% more attack and HP as compared to a 5r5 of the same champ.
Imagine a 5r5 roster facing off against an similar 5r5 roster - maybe they need 30 hits to K.O the defender, their opponents also need to land a similar number of hits in a similar amount of time to win the match.
When a 6r4 roster faces off against an equal 6r4 roster, the math is largely the same. Since HP and attack increases are almost equal.
When a 6r4 roster faces off against the same 5r5 roster - with a 6r4 champ you only need 20 hits to down the defender. On the other side, the 5r5 needs 45 hits to down the 6r4 defender. Even if the 5r5 plays a perfect game, there is very little chance that they win the match since the room for error with a 6r4 is so much more.
If you wants rewards at your progression level, you should at least be willing to face opponents at your progression level. Picking on teams with 2x handicaps to rake in rewards is not the Paragon thing to do.
The 10K roster who has progressed hasn't played any easier games than you did to get to your level. Because BG matches are relative not absolute.
Is winning a high school football game just as difficult as winning an NFL game?
Yes... it is higher level of play dosent mean higher difficulty imagine you have 2 high grade machines pushing at each other both of them applying 50 pounds of force vs 2 low grade machines the each only apply 20 pounds of force the struggle on boths sides is equal
Actually thats where u are wrong... Look at every Side quest or SOLO event thay had a currency as reward other than BG... Lower progressions always earn less and paid more... BG is the only one that had same milestone rewards, same objective rewards and same tier climb rewards for all progressions and the only difference is the store... If u r UC u r 3 progressions levels behind.. doesnt even make sense u r competing or playing against Paragons for rewards...
SQ paid less if you did lower difficulty, same difficulty gives the same amount of currency - complete threat level 5, you get threat level 5 rewards. In BG, difficulty is relative. A 10K roster vs. 10K roster is almost the same difficulty as 17k v 17k.
10K vs 17K is very easy for a 17K roster and almost impossible for a 10K roster. It's an EOP level match for the 10K and may threat level 2 for the 17K. The 10K players can play flawlessly 100% health, the most ideal rotation etc. and 9 out of 10 times they will still lose because the other match got over sooner. Conversely, the 17k player can take many hits, mess up a few times and will still win almost every one of those match-ups. But you want 17K to get top end rewards for doing this and 10K to get something worthless.
UC is competing with UC to get currency to buy UC rewards. Paragons and doing the same.
This is so unequivocally wrong that it's almost not worth discussing.
Why is it wrong? The result of a BG round is based on the relative results of the two fights in the round. A 6r4 has ~50% more attack and HP as compared to a 5r5 of the same champ.
Imagine a 5r5 roster facing off against an similar 5r5 roster - maybe they need 30 hits to K.O the defender, their opponents also need to land a similar number of hits in a similar amount of time to win the match.
When a 6r4 roster faces off against an equal 6r4 roster, the math is largely the same. Since HP and attack increases are almost equal.
When a 6r4 roster faces off against the same 5r5 roster - with a 6r4 champ you only need 20 hits to down the defender. On the other side, the 5r5 needs 45 hits to down the 6r4 defender. Even if the 5r5 plays a perfect game, there is very little chance that they win the match since the room for error with a 6r4 is so much more.
If you wants rewards at your progression level, you should at least be willing to face opponents at your progression level. Picking on teams with 2x handicaps to rake in rewards is not the Paragon thing to do.
The 10K roster who has progressed hasn't played any easier games than you did to get to your level. Because BG matches are relative not absolute.
Is winning a high school football game just as difficult as winning an NFL game?
For the teams involved yes.
Also, do NFL teams get rewarded based on their budget if they win the season?
If you gate rewards, you have to expect to gate competition as well.
This just proves that you have no idea what you're talking about. Did you ever play competitive sports? You honestly think that winning a HI game is the same as an NFL game for the teams invoiced? How is that even possible?
As for your second part, the NFL bars HIS teams from competing in their league so HS teams could never earn those rewards.
Why would you assume competitive sports are less competitive at lower levels? Skill levels are lower, sure, but that doesn't mean the matches are less competitive. Equally matched teams produce competitive games.
It is infinitely harder for anyone to get into an NFL team vs. a high school team or whatever lower league you want to consider. An NFL player playing in HS league would find it very easy, that doesn't mean HS teams playing other HS teams have it easier than NFL teams playing other NFL teams.
What are you even talking about? Why are you moving the goalposts to talk about "competitive" matches? Not that it help you at all saying that HS games are just as competitive ad NFL games. That's just silly.
Actually thats where u are wrong... Look at every Side quest or SOLO event thay had a currency as reward other than BG... Lower progressions always earn less and paid more... BG is the only one that had same milestone rewards, same objective rewards and same tier climb rewards for all progressions and the only difference is the store... If u r UC u r 3 progressions levels behind.. doesnt even make sense u r competing or playing against Paragons for rewards...
SQ paid less if you did lower difficulty, same difficulty gives the same amount of currency - complete threat level 5, you get threat level 5 rewards. In BG, difficulty is relative. A 10K roster vs. 10K roster is almost the same difficulty as 17k v 17k.
10K vs 17K is very easy for a 17K roster and almost impossible for a 10K roster. It's an EOP level match for the 10K and may threat level 2 for the 17K. The 10K players can play flawlessly 100% health, the most ideal rotation etc. and 9 out of 10 times they will still lose because the other match got over sooner. Conversely, the 17k player can take many hits, mess up a few times and will still win almost every one of those match-ups. But you want 17K to get top end rewards for doing this and 10K to get something worthless.
UC is competing with UC to get currency to buy UC rewards. Paragons and doing the same.
This is so unequivocally wrong that it's almost not worth discussing.
Why is it wrong? The result of a BG round is based on the relative results of the two fights in the round. A 6r4 has ~50% more attack and HP as compared to a 5r5 of the same champ.
Imagine a 5r5 roster facing off against an similar 5r5 roster - maybe they need 30 hits to K.O the defender, their opponents also need to land a similar number of hits in a similar amount of time to win the match.
When a 6r4 roster faces off against an equal 6r4 roster, the math is largely the same. Since HP and attack increases are almost equal.
When a 6r4 roster faces off against the same 5r5 roster - with a 6r4 champ you only need 20 hits to down the defender. On the other side, the 5r5 needs 45 hits to down the 6r4 defender. Even if the 5r5 plays a perfect game, there is very little chance that they win the match since the room for error with a 6r4 is so much more.
If you wants rewards at your progression level, you should at least be willing to face opponents at your progression level. Picking on teams with 2x handicaps to rake in rewards is not the Paragon thing to do.
The 10K roster who has progressed hasn't played any easier games than you did to get to your level. Because BG matches are relative not absolute.
Is winning a high school football game just as difficult as winning an NFL game?
Yes... it is higher level of play dosent mean higher difficulty imagine you have 2 high grade machines pushing at each other both of them applying 50 pounds of force vs 2 low grade machines the each only apply 20 pounds of force the struggle on boths sides is equal
Wrong.
What even is your example? Pounds of force? How does that apply to a sport?
It truly is shocking how many people think that winning a pro game is the same as an HS game. It really shows why so many don't grasp the reality of what Paragons are going through in the VT.
Actually thats where u are wrong... Look at every Side quest or SOLO event thay had a currency as reward other than BG... Lower progressions always earn less and paid more... BG is the only one that had same milestone rewards, same objective rewards and same tier climb rewards for all progressions and the only difference is the store... If u r UC u r 3 progressions levels behind.. doesnt even make sense u r competing or playing against Paragons for rewards...
SQ paid less if you did lower difficulty, same difficulty gives the same amount of currency - complete threat level 5, you get threat level 5 rewards. In BG, difficulty is relative. A 10K roster vs. 10K roster is almost the same difficulty as 17k v 17k.
10K vs 17K is very easy for a 17K roster and almost impossible for a 10K roster. It's an EOP level match for the 10K and may threat level 2 for the 17K. The 10K players can play flawlessly 100% health, the most ideal rotation etc. and 9 out of 10 times they will still lose because the other match got over sooner. Conversely, the 17k player can take many hits, mess up a few times and will still win almost every one of those match-ups. But you want 17K to get top end rewards for doing this and 10K to get something worthless.
UC is competing with UC to get currency to buy UC rewards. Paragons and doing the same.
This is so unequivocally wrong that it's almost not worth discussing.
Why is it wrong? The result of a BG round is based on the relative results of the two fights in the round. A 6r4 has ~50% more attack and HP as compared to a 5r5 of the same champ.
Imagine a 5r5 roster facing off against an similar 5r5 roster - maybe they need 30 hits to K.O the defender, their opponents also need to land a similar number of hits in a similar amount of time to win the match.
When a 6r4 roster faces off against an equal 6r4 roster, the math is largely the same. Since HP and attack increases are almost equal.
When a 6r4 roster faces off against the same 5r5 roster - with a 6r4 champ you only need 20 hits to down the defender. On the other side, the 5r5 needs 45 hits to down the 6r4 defender. Even if the 5r5 plays a perfect game, there is very little chance that they win the match since the room for error with a 6r4 is so much more.
If you wants rewards at your progression level, you should at least be willing to face opponents at your progression level. Picking on teams with 2x handicaps to rake in rewards is not the Paragon thing to do.
The 10K roster who has progressed hasn't played any easier games than you did to get to your level. Because BG matches are relative not absolute.
Is winning a high school football game just as difficult as winning an NFL game?
For the teams involved yes.
Also, do NFL teams get rewarded based on their budget if they win the season?
If you gate rewards, you have to expect to gate competition as well.
This just proves that you have no idea what you're talking about. Did you ever play competitive sports? You honestly think that winning a HI game is the same as an NFL game for the teams invoiced? How is that even possible?
As for your second part, the NFL bars HIS teams from competing in their league so HS teams could never earn those rewards.
Why would you assume competitive sports are less competitive at lower levels? Skill levels are lower, sure, but that doesn't mean the matches are less competitive. Equally matched teams produce competitive games.
It is infinitely harder for anyone to get into an NFL team vs. a high school team or whatever lower league you want to consider. An NFL player playing in HS league would find it very easy, that doesn't mean HS teams playing other HS teams have it easier than NFL teams playing other NFL teams.
What are you even talking about? Why are you moving the goalposts to talk about "competitive" matches? Not that it help you at all saying that HS games are just as competitive ad NFL games. That's just silly.
Why is it silly? Explain in terms of number, process, effort any metric you like this simple question: "How is facing a 6r4 champ with a 6r4 champ different than facing a 5r5 champ with a 5r5 champ in VT in BG?"
To me, very similar fights but you seem to think facing a 6r4 with a 6r4 is a 5-10x more challenging. What makes that fight so hard? Explain in terms which everyone can understand, instead of making baseless assertions.
What do you have to do differently in the 6r4 fight? How many more hits do you have to land? Do you need to use more complicated rotations? How much longer do those fights last?
The fights are only scored on HP and time - so it only comes down to how much longer the fights last and how many more hits you need to land.
Actually thats where u are wrong... Look at every Side quest or SOLO event thay had a currency as reward other than BG... Lower progressions always earn less and paid more... BG is the only one that had same milestone rewards, same objective rewards and same tier climb rewards for all progressions and the only difference is the store... If u r UC u r 3 progressions levels behind.. doesnt even make sense u r competing or playing against Paragons for rewards...
SQ paid less if you did lower difficulty, same difficulty gives the same amount of currency - complete threat level 5, you get threat level 5 rewards. In BG, difficulty is relative. A 10K roster vs. 10K roster is almost the same difficulty as 17k v 17k.
10K vs 17K is very easy for a 17K roster and almost impossible for a 10K roster. It's an EOP level match for the 10K and may threat level 2 for the 17K. The 10K players can play flawlessly 100% health, the most ideal rotation etc. and 9 out of 10 times they will still lose because the other match got over sooner. Conversely, the 17k player can take many hits, mess up a few times and will still win almost every one of those match-ups. But you want 17K to get top end rewards for doing this and 10K to get something worthless.
UC is competing with UC to get currency to buy UC rewards. Paragons and doing the same.
This is so unequivocally wrong that it's almost not worth discussing.
Why is it wrong? The result of a BG round is based on the relative results of the two fights in the round. A 6r4 has ~50% more attack and HP as compared to a 5r5 of the same champ.
Imagine a 5r5 roster facing off against an similar 5r5 roster - maybe they need 30 hits to K.O the defender, their opponents also need to land a similar number of hits in a similar amount of time to win the match.
When a 6r4 roster faces off against an equal 6r4 roster, the math is largely the same. Since HP and attack increases are almost equal.
When a 6r4 roster faces off against the same 5r5 roster - with a 6r4 champ you only need 20 hits to down the defender. On the other side, the 5r5 needs 45 hits to down the 6r4 defender. Even if the 5r5 plays a perfect game, there is very little chance that they win the match since the room for error with a 6r4 is so much more.
If you wants rewards at your progression level, you should at least be willing to face opponents at your progression level. Picking on teams with 2x handicaps to rake in rewards is not the Paragon thing to do.
The 10K roster who has progressed hasn't played any easier games than you did to get to your level. Because BG matches are relative not absolute.
Is winning a high school football game just as difficult as winning an NFL game?
For the teams involved yes.
Also, do NFL teams get rewarded based on their budget if they win the season?
If you gate rewards, you have to expect to gate competition as well.
This just proves that you have no idea what you're talking about. Did you ever play competitive sports? You honestly think that winning a HI game is the same as an NFL game for the teams invoiced? How is that even possible?
As for your second part, the NFL bars HIS teams from competing in their league so HS teams could never earn those rewards.
Why would you assume competitive sports are less competitive at lower levels? Skill levels are lower, sure, but that doesn't mean the matches are less competitive. Equally matched teams produce competitive games.
It is infinitely harder for anyone to get into an NFL team vs. a high school team or whatever lower league you want to consider. An NFL player playing in HS league would find it very easy, that doesn't mean HS teams playing other HS teams have it easier than NFL teams playing other NFL teams.
What are you even talking about? Why are you moving the goalposts to talk about "competitive" matches? Not that it help you at all saying that HS games are just as competitive ad NFL games. That's just silly.
Why is it silly? Explain in terms of number, process, effort any metric you like this simple question: "How is facing a 6r4 champ with a 6r4 champ different than facing a 5r5 champ with a 5r5 champ in VT in BG?"
To me, very similar fights but you seem to think facing a 6r4 with a 6r4 is a 5-10x more challenging. What makes that fight so hard? Explain in terms which everyone can understand, instead of making baseless assertions.
What do you have to do differently in the 6r4 fight? How many more hits do you have to land? Do you need to use more complicated rotations? How much longer do those fights last?
The fights are only scored on HP and time - so it only comes down to how much longer the fights last and how many more hits you need to land.
the biggest difference here, which you fail to consider is roster development. a 17k roster has most/all the relevant champions ranked up. a 10k roster does not.
Actually thats where u are wrong... Look at every Side quest or SOLO event thay had a currency as reward other than BG... Lower progressions always earn less and paid more... BG is the only one that had same milestone rewards, same objective rewards and same tier climb rewards for all progressions and the only difference is the store... If u r UC u r 3 progressions levels behind.. doesnt even make sense u r competing or playing against Paragons for rewards...
SQ paid less if you did lower difficulty, same difficulty gives the same amount of currency - complete threat level 5, you get threat level 5 rewards. In BG, difficulty is relative. A 10K roster vs. 10K roster is almost the same difficulty as 17k v 17k.
10K vs 17K is very easy for a 17K roster and almost impossible for a 10K roster. It's an EOP level match for the 10K and may threat level 2 for the 17K. The 10K players can play flawlessly 100% health, the most ideal rotation etc. and 9 out of 10 times they will still lose because the other match got over sooner. Conversely, the 17k player can take many hits, mess up a few times and will still win almost every one of those match-ups. But you want 17K to get top end rewards for doing this and 10K to get something worthless.
UC is competing with UC to get currency to buy UC rewards. Paragons and doing the same.
This is so unequivocally wrong that it's almost not worth discussing.
Why is it wrong? The result of a BG round is based on the relative results of the two fights in the round. A 6r4 has ~50% more attack and HP as compared to a 5r5 of the same champ.
Imagine a 5r5 roster facing off against an similar 5r5 roster - maybe they need 30 hits to K.O the defender, their opponents also need to land a similar number of hits in a similar amount of time to win the match.
When a 6r4 roster faces off against an equal 6r4 roster, the math is largely the same. Since HP and attack increases are almost equal.
When a 6r4 roster faces off against the same 5r5 roster - with a 6r4 champ you only need 20 hits to down the defender. On the other side, the 5r5 needs 45 hits to down the 6r4 defender. Even if the 5r5 plays a perfect game, there is very little chance that they win the match since the room for error with a 6r4 is so much more.
If you wants rewards at your progression level, you should at least be willing to face opponents at your progression level. Picking on teams with 2x handicaps to rake in rewards is not the Paragon thing to do.
The 10K roster who has progressed hasn't played any easier games than you did to get to your level. Because BG matches are relative not absolute.
Is winning a high school football game just as difficult as winning an NFL game?
For the teams involved yes.
Also, do NFL teams get rewarded based on their budget if they win the season?
If you gate rewards, you have to expect to gate competition as well.
This just proves that you have no idea what you're talking about. Did you ever play competitive sports? You honestly think that winning a HI game is the same as an NFL game for the teams invoiced? How is that even possible?
As for your second part, the NFL bars HIS teams from competing in their league so HS teams could never earn those rewards.
Why would you assume competitive sports are less competitive at lower levels? Skill levels are lower, sure, but that doesn't mean the matches are less competitive. Equally matched teams produce competitive games.
It is infinitely harder for anyone to get into an NFL team vs. a high school team or whatever lower league you want to consider. An NFL player playing in HS league would find it very easy, that doesn't mean HS teams playing other HS teams have it easier than NFL teams playing other NFL teams.
What are you even talking about? Why are you moving the goalposts to talk about "competitive" matches? Not that it help you at all saying that HS games are just as competitive ad NFL games. That's just silly.
Why is it silly? Explain in terms of number, process, effort any metric you like this simple question: "How is facing a 6r4 champ with a 6r4 champ different than facing a 5r5 champ with a 5r5 champ in VT in BG?"
To me, very similar fights but you seem to think facing a 6r4 with a 6r4 is a 5-10x more challenging. What makes that fight so hard? Explain in terms which everyone can understand, instead of making baseless assertions.
What do you have to do differently in the 6r4 fight? How many more hits do you have to land? Do you need to use more complicated rotations? How much longer do those fights last?
The fights are only scored on HP and time - so it only comes down to how much longer the fights last and how many more hits you need to land.
the biggest difference here, which you fail to consider is roster development. a 17k roster has most/all the relevant champions ranked up. a 10k roster does not.
That's true for the 17K roster that you're using against that 17K roster too. Same for the 10K rosters on the opposite sides.
On a relatively scale those matchups are very similar and not of exponentially higher difficulty as it is made out to be. The 10K roster that progresses by beating other 10K rosters is not facing easier matchups than the 17K roster would because the scoring is relative.
I get that the 10K roster can have harder matchups, because there are stronger rosters around and matchmaking ignores those. So they do have an easier path than what is potentially possible.
But they also have access to much lower rewards than what the 17K roster has, because the store restricts what they can get for their winnings. It is naïve to expect a 10K roster to constantly face off against a 17K roster and then divvy up the rewards by progression levels. Why would any 10K player want to be part of that mode?
When people at the top progression level complain that weaker rosters have progressed, they ignore that there are many more of those rosters who have not progressed and far higher percentage of players at the highest progression level who have moved up.
The frustration is with progressing in the mode (which is being addressed next season), why take it out on smaller accounts? They are not doing anything lesser in terms of effort, and they played by the rules to get where they are. It's silly to keep telling them their progress is undeserved.
Actually thats where u are wrong... Look at every Side quest or SOLO event thay had a currency as reward other than BG... Lower progressions always earn less and paid more... BG is the only one that had same milestone rewards, same objective rewards and same tier climb rewards for all progressions and the only difference is the store... If u r UC u r 3 progressions levels behind.. doesnt even make sense u r competing or playing against Paragons for rewards...
SQ paid less if you did lower difficulty, same difficulty gives the same amount of currency - complete threat level 5, you get threat level 5 rewards. In BG, difficulty is relative. A 10K roster vs. 10K roster is almost the same difficulty as 17k v 17k.
10K vs 17K is very easy for a 17K roster and almost impossible for a 10K roster. It's an EOP level match for the 10K and may threat level 2 for the 17K. The 10K players can play flawlessly 100% health, the most ideal rotation etc. and 9 out of 10 times they will still lose because the other match got over sooner. Conversely, the 17k player can take many hits, mess up a few times and will still win almost every one of those match-ups. But you want 17K to get top end rewards for doing this and 10K to get something worthless.
UC is competing with UC to get currency to buy UC rewards. Paragons and doing the same.
This is so unequivocally wrong that it's almost not worth discussing.
Why is it wrong? The result of a BG round is based on the relative results of the two fights in the round. A 6r4 has ~50% more attack and HP as compared to a 5r5 of the same champ.
Imagine a 5r5 roster facing off against an similar 5r5 roster - maybe they need 30 hits to K.O the defender, their opponents also need to land a similar number of hits in a similar amount of time to win the match.
When a 6r4 roster faces off against an equal 6r4 roster, the math is largely the same. Since HP and attack increases are almost equal.
When a 6r4 roster faces off against the same 5r5 roster - with a 6r4 champ you only need 20 hits to down the defender. On the other side, the 5r5 needs 45 hits to down the 6r4 defender. Even if the 5r5 plays a perfect game, there is very little chance that they win the match since the room for error with a 6r4 is so much more.
If you wants rewards at your progression level, you should at least be willing to face opponents at your progression level. Picking on teams with 2x handicaps to rake in rewards is not the Paragon thing to do.
The 10K roster who has progressed hasn't played any easier games than you did to get to your level. Because BG matches are relative not absolute.
Is winning a high school football game just as difficult as winning an NFL game?
For the teams involved yes.
Also, do NFL teams get rewarded based on their budget if they win the season?
If you gate rewards, you have to expect to gate competition as well.
This just proves that you have no idea what you're talking about. Did you ever play competitive sports? You honestly think that winning a HI game is the same as an NFL game for the teams invoiced? How is that even possible?
As for your second part, the NFL bars HIS teams from competing in their league so HS teams could never earn those rewards.
Why would you assume competitive sports are less competitive at lower levels? Skill levels are lower, sure, but that doesn't mean the matches are less competitive. Equally matched teams produce competitive games.
It is infinitely harder for anyone to get into an NFL team vs. a high school team or whatever lower league you want to consider. An NFL player playing in HS league would find it very easy, that doesn't mean HS teams playing other HS teams have it easier than NFL teams playing other NFL teams.
What are you even talking about? Why are you moving the goalposts to talk about "competitive" matches? Not that it help you at all saying that HS games are just as competitive ad NFL games. That's just silly.
Why is it silly? Explain in terms of number, process, effort any metric you like this simple question: "How is facing a 6r4 champ with a 6r4 champ different than facing a 5r5 champ with a 5r5 champ in VT in BG?"
To me, very similar fights but you seem to think facing a 6r4 with a 6r4 is a 5-10x more challenging. What makes that fight so hard? Explain in terms which everyone can understand, instead of making baseless assertions.
What do you have to do differently in the 6r4 fight? How many more hits do you have to land? Do you need to use more complicated rotations? How much longer do those fights last?
The fights are only scored on HP and time - so it only comes down to how much longer the fights last and how many more hits you need to land.
You're not fighting a champ, you're fighting another player.
Actually thats where u are wrong... Look at every Side quest or SOLO event thay had a currency as reward other than BG... Lower progressions always earn less and paid more... BG is the only one that had same milestone rewards, same objective rewards and same tier climb rewards for all progressions and the only difference is the store... If u r UC u r 3 progressions levels behind.. doesnt even make sense u r competing or playing against Paragons for rewards...
SQ paid less if you did lower difficulty, same difficulty gives the same amount of currency - complete threat level 5, you get threat level 5 rewards. In BG, difficulty is relative. A 10K roster vs. 10K roster is almost the same difficulty as 17k v 17k.
10K vs 17K is very easy for a 17K roster and almost impossible for a 10K roster. It's an EOP level match for the 10K and may threat level 2 for the 17K. The 10K players can play flawlessly 100% health, the most ideal rotation etc. and 9 out of 10 times they will still lose because the other match got over sooner. Conversely, the 17k player can take many hits, mess up a few times and will still win almost every one of those match-ups. But you want 17K to get top end rewards for doing this and 10K to get something worthless.
UC is competing with UC to get currency to buy UC rewards. Paragons and doing the same.
This is so unequivocally wrong that it's almost not worth discussing.
Why is it wrong? The result of a BG round is based on the relative results of the two fights in the round. A 6r4 has ~50% more attack and HP as compared to a 5r5 of the same champ.
Imagine a 5r5 roster facing off against an similar 5r5 roster - maybe they need 30 hits to K.O the defender, their opponents also need to land a similar number of hits in a similar amount of time to win the match.
When a 6r4 roster faces off against an equal 6r4 roster, the math is largely the same. Since HP and attack increases are almost equal.
When a 6r4 roster faces off against the same 5r5 roster - with a 6r4 champ you only need 20 hits to down the defender. On the other side, the 5r5 needs 45 hits to down the 6r4 defender. Even if the 5r5 plays a perfect game, there is very little chance that they win the match since the room for error with a 6r4 is so much more.
If you wants rewards at your progression level, you should at least be willing to face opponents at your progression level. Picking on teams with 2x handicaps to rake in rewards is not the Paragon thing to do.
The 10K roster who has progressed hasn't played any easier games than you did to get to your level. Because BG matches are relative not absolute.
Is winning a high school football game just as difficult as winning an NFL game?
For the teams involved yes.
Also, do NFL teams get rewarded based on their budget if they win the season?
If you gate rewards, you have to expect to gate competition as well.
This just proves that you have no idea what you're talking about. Did you ever play competitive sports? You honestly think that winning a HI game is the same as an NFL game for the teams invoiced? How is that even possible?
As for your second part, the NFL bars HIS teams from competing in their league so HS teams could never earn those rewards.
Why would you assume competitive sports are less competitive at lower levels? Skill levels are lower, sure, but that doesn't mean the matches are less competitive. Equally matched teams produce competitive games.
It is infinitely harder for anyone to get into an NFL team vs. a high school team or whatever lower league you want to consider. An NFL player playing in HS league would find it very easy, that doesn't mean HS teams playing other HS teams have it easier than NFL teams playing other NFL teams.
What are you even talking about? Why are you moving the goalposts to talk about "competitive" matches? Not that it help you at all saying that HS games are just as competitive ad NFL games. That's just silly.
Why is it silly? Explain in terms of number, process, effort any metric you like this simple question: "How is facing a 6r4 champ with a 6r4 champ different than facing a 5r5 champ with a 5r5 champ in VT in BG?"
To me, very similar fights but you seem to think facing a 6r4 with a 6r4 is a 5-10x more challenging. What makes that fight so hard? Explain in terms which everyone can understand, instead of making baseless assertions.
What do you have to do differently in the 6r4 fight? How many more hits do you have to land? Do you need to use more complicated rotations? How much longer do those fights last?
The fights are only scored on HP and time - so it only comes down to how much longer the fights last and how many more hits you need to land.
You're not fighting a champ, you're fighting another player.
*Pleas bring up that BGS isn't live pvp, lol.
You're actually not fighting another Player. You're comparing scores based on 3 factors. Health lost, Health taken down, and time fought. Those 3 factors are absolutely affected by what you're using versus what you're coming up against.
Explain in terms of number, process, effort any metric you like this simple question: "How is facing a 6r4 champ with a 6r4 champ different than facing a 5r5 champ with a 5r5 champ in VT in BG?"
To me, very similar fights but you seem to think facing a 6r4 with a 6r4 is a 5-10x more challenging. What makes that fight so hard? Explain in terms which everyone can understand, instead of making baseless assertions.
What do you have to do differently in the 6r4 fight? How many more hits do you have to land? Do you need to use more complicated rotations? How much longer do those fights last?
The fights are only scored on HP and time - so it only comes down to how much longer the fights last and how many more hits you need to land.
You're not fighting a champ, you're fighting another player.
*Pleas bring up that BGS isn't live pvp, lol.
As usual, you avoid any meaningful debate and stick to broad, meaningless assertions.
You win a match if you win 2 out of 3 rounds. Result of a round is the difference in scores between two fights. And they are scored on 3 aspects, two are HP related, one is the time to finish the fight.
How is facing a 6r4 with a 6r4 different than 5r5 with 5r5? Why do you think the player with a 5-star roster facing another one with a 5-star roster is having an easier time than you are with your 6-star roster facing other 6-stars?
Actually thats where u are wrong... Look at every Side quest or SOLO event thay had a currency as reward other than BG... Lower progressions always earn less and paid more... BG is the only one that had same milestone rewards, same objective rewards and same tier climb rewards for all progressions and the only difference is the store... If u r UC u r 3 progressions levels behind.. doesnt even make sense u r competing or playing against Paragons for rewards...
SQ paid less if you did lower difficulty, same difficulty gives the same amount of currency - complete threat level 5, you get threat level 5 rewards. In BG, difficulty is relative. A 10K roster vs. 10K roster is almost the same difficulty as 17k v 17k.
10K vs 17K is very easy for a 17K roster and almost impossible for a 10K roster. It's an EOP level match for the 10K and may threat level 2 for the 17K. The 10K players can play flawlessly 100% health, the most ideal rotation etc. and 9 out of 10 times they will still lose because the other match got over sooner. Conversely, the 17k player can take many hits, mess up a few times and will still win almost every one of those match-ups. But you want 17K to get top end rewards for doing this and 10K to get something worthless.
UC is competing with UC to get currency to buy UC rewards. Paragons and doing the same.
This is so unequivocally wrong that it's almost not worth discussing.
Why is it wrong? The result of a BG round is based on the relative results of the two fights in the round. A 6r4 has ~50% more attack and HP as compared to a 5r5 of the same champ.
Imagine a 5r5 roster facing off against an similar 5r5 roster - maybe they need 30 hits to K.O the defender, their opponents also need to land a similar number of hits in a similar amount of time to win the match.
When a 6r4 roster faces off against an equal 6r4 roster, the math is largely the same. Since HP and attack increases are almost equal.
When a 6r4 roster faces off against the same 5r5 roster - with a 6r4 champ you only need 20 hits to down the defender. On the other side, the 5r5 needs 45 hits to down the 6r4 defender. Even if the 5r5 plays a perfect game, there is very little chance that they win the match since the room for error with a 6r4 is so much more.
If you wants rewards at your progression level, you should at least be willing to face opponents at your progression level. Picking on teams with 2x handicaps to rake in rewards is not the Paragon thing to do.
The 10K roster who has progressed hasn't played any easier games than you did to get to your level. Because BG matches are relative not absolute.
Is winning a high school football game just as difficult as winning an NFL game?
For the teams involved yes.
Also, do NFL teams get rewarded based on their budget if they win the season?
If you gate rewards, you have to expect to gate competition as well.
This just proves that you have no idea what you're talking about. Did you ever play competitive sports? You honestly think that winning a HI game is the same as an NFL game for the teams invoiced? How is that even possible?
As for your second part, the NFL bars HIS teams from competing in their league so HS teams could never earn those rewards.
Why would you assume competitive sports are less competitive at lower levels? Skill levels are lower, sure, but that doesn't mean the matches are less competitive. Equally matched teams produce competitive games.
It is infinitely harder for anyone to get into an NFL team vs. a high school team or whatever lower league you want to consider. An NFL player playing in HS league would find it very easy, that doesn't mean HS teams playing other HS teams have it easier than NFL teams playing other NFL teams.
What are you even talking about? Why are you moving the goalposts to talk about "competitive" matches? Not that it help you at all saying that HS games are just as competitive ad NFL games. That's just silly.
Why is it silly? Explain in terms of number, process, effort any metric you like this simple question: "How is facing a 6r4 champ with a 6r4 champ different than facing a 5r5 champ with a 5r5 champ in VT in BG?"
To me, very similar fights but you seem to think facing a 6r4 with a 6r4 is a 5-10x more challenging. What makes that fight so hard? Explain in terms which everyone can understand, instead of making baseless assertions.
What do you have to do differently in the 6r4 fight? How many more hits do you have to land? Do you need to use more complicated rotations? How much longer do those fights last?
The fights are only scored on HP and time - so it only comes down to how much longer the fights last and how many more hits you need to land.
the biggest difference here, which you fail to consider is roster development. a 17k roster has most/all the relevant champions ranked up. a 10k roster does not.
That's true for the 17K roster that you're using against that 17K roster too. Same for the 10K rosters on the opposite sides.
On a relatively scale those matchups are very similar and not of exponentially higher difficulty as it is made out to be. The 10K roster that progresses by beating other 10K rosters is not facing easier matchups than the 17K roster would because the scoring is relative.
I get that the 10K roster can have harder matchups, because there are stronger rosters around and matchmaking ignores those. So they do have an easier path than what is potentially possible.
But they also have access to much lower rewards than what the 17K roster has, because the store restricts what they can get for their winnings. It is naïve to expect a 10K roster to constantly face off against a 17K roster and then divvy up the rewards by progression levels. Why would any 10K player want to be part of that mode?
When people at the top progression level complain that weaker rosters have progressed, they ignore that there are many more of those rosters who have not progressed and far higher percentage of players at the highest progression level who have moved up.
The frustration is with progressing in the mode (which is being addressed next season), why take it out on smaller accounts? They are not doing anything lesser in terms of effort, and they played by the rules to get where they are. It's silly to keep telling them their progress is undeserved.
I do not want to wade into this argument here, I believe next season will be a lot better. However, there are a few fallacies I'd like to point out.
1) Your argument about UC/Cavs/TBs would hold water if they were "stuck" at that progression level and HAD to use the rewards gained from VT/GC on lower stores. That isnt the case. You could max out on trophy tokens over a couple seasons easily, while moving up in progression levels and using it on "higher rewards" quite easily.
2) Part of the progression rewards for VT includes large chunks of trophy tokens, and Elders marks. For paragons suck at a low level, Elders marks are impossible to come by unless they spend units, another source of frustration. 5* relic shards also affect paragons for prestige/ BG purposes, another thing they miss out on.
3) 10k vs 10k and 17k vs 17k have completely different difficulties. Since 17k rosters are more developed, there is very little wiggle room in a match. dont have a good counter to domino or WPX, or Jessica. too bad, you lose. That isnt the case for a UC/Cav, as they are unlikely to have the strongest defenders at a high rank/max sig. I've tested t various levels with my minis and seen this.
These arguments are what have frustration quite a few paragons stuck at the lower levels. Lower paragon engagement has fallen off considerably. Which is why changes was necessary. another fact is that a lot of this game is progression gated. There is nothing wrong that BGs can be gated as well. Not strong enough for VT? develop your roster and come back. That is how story progression used to be gated, and actually still is (albeit it is much easier now).
Explain in terms of number, process, effort any metric you like this simple question: "How is facing a 6r4 champ with a 6r4 champ different than facing a 5r5 champ with a 5r5 champ in VT in BG?"
To me, very similar fights but you seem to think facing a 6r4 with a 6r4 is a 5-10x more challenging. What makes that fight so hard? Explain in terms which everyone can understand, instead of making baseless assertions.
What do you have to do differently in the 6r4 fight? How many more hits do you have to land? Do you need to use more complicated rotations? How much longer do those fights last?
The fights are only scored on HP and time - so it only comes down to how much longer the fights last and how many more hits you need to land.
You're not fighting a champ, you're fighting another player.
*Pleas bring up that BGS isn't live pvp, lol.
As usual, you avoid any meaningful debate and stick to broad, meaningless assertions.
You win a match if you win 2 out of 3 rounds. Result of a round is the difference in scores between two fights. And they are scored on 3 aspects, two are HP related, one is the time to finish the fight.
How is facing a 6r4 with a 6r4 different than 5r5 with 5r5? Why do you think the player with a 5-star roster facing another one with a 5-star roster is having an easier time than you are with your 6-star roster facing other 6-stars?
Because you're completely discounting the human factor of playing BG matches vs the best players in the game.
I'm not fighting a 6r4 vs a 6r4, I'm fighting vs another player to see who had the best fight to win that round.
How many Cavs or TBs get 50k points let alone lose a round where they score 50k? That happens all the time in endgame BGs.
Explain in terms of number, process, effort any metric you like this simple question: "How is facing a 6r4 champ with a 6r4 champ different than facing a 5r5 champ with a 5r5 champ in VT in BG?"
To me, very similar fights but you seem to think facing a 6r4 with a 6r4 is a 5-10x more challenging. What makes that fight so hard? Explain in terms which everyone can understand, instead of making baseless assertions.
What do you have to do differently in the 6r4 fight? How many more hits do you have to land? Do you need to use more complicated rotations? How much longer do those fights last?
The fights are only scored on HP and time - so it only comes down to how much longer the fights last and how many more hits you need to land.
You're not fighting a champ, you're fighting another player.
*Pleas bring up that BGS isn't live pvp, lol.
As usual, you avoid any meaningful debate and stick to broad, meaningless assertions.
You win a match if you win 2 out of 3 rounds. Result of a round is the difference in scores between two fights. And they are scored on 3 aspects, two are HP related, one is the time to finish the fight.
How is facing a 6r4 with a 6r4 different than 5r5 with 5r5? Why do you think the player with a 5-star roster facing another one with a 5-star roster is having an easier time than you are with your 6-star roster facing other 6-stars?
If u really think that fighting a 6r4 max sig Korg is the same as fighting a 5r5 (most likely not max sig) Korg from a UC/Cav is the same u don't belong in this Game mode...
1) Your argument about UC/Cavs/TBs would hold water if they were "stuck" at that progression level and HAD to use the rewards gained from VT/GC on lower stores. That isnt the case. You could max out on trophy tokens over a couple seasons easily, while moving up in progression levels and using it on "higher rewards" quite easily.
In my view, there is no evidence of token hoarding at any meaningful scale. Most people will use the tokens to strengthen and progress just like all other in-game currencies are used. Extending the hoarding logic, it makes sense to save a lot of in-game currencies, why spend units ever, their value only increases over time due to inflation in the game (better deals).
These arguments are what have frustration quite a few paragons stuck at the lower levels. Lower paragon engagement has fallen off considerably. Which is why changes was necessary. another fact is that a lot of this game is progression gated. There is nothing wrong that BGs can be gated as well. Not strong enough for VT? develop your roster and come back. That is how story progression used to be gated, and actually still is (albeit it is much easier now).
Paragons stuck at lower levels is due to the progression system rather than due to lower accounts. The win rate hurdle couldn't be met since they couldn't beat their peers. This should be better next season with the revised progression system. The solution to this is not providing lower strength accounts for them to beat.
There is risk to excessive gating is that BG requires extensive participation to create enough volumes to provide matches. If early Paragons don't see a value in the mode with the store they have access to and 10-15K tokens from daily objectives alone, what do you think will happen to participation from lower accounts (who get much lower value from BG stores) if they have no path to progression at all.
Roster advantage in BG can be insurmountable at even moderate gaps. Expecting 10K rosters to match up against 15-17K rosters consistently is a sure fire way to get them to drop off from the mode. That doesn't help anyone.
The sooner they create tiers/leagues to the whole mode the better.
Either we have leagues separating one another by way of progression or the matchmaking is 100% random. All this fiddling in the middle is getting them nowhere
Explain in terms of number, process, effort any metric you like this simple question: "How is facing a 6r4 champ with a 6r4 champ different than facing a 5r5 champ with a 5r5 champ in VT in BG?"
To me, very similar fights but you seem to think facing a 6r4 with a 6r4 is a 5-10x more challenging. What makes that fight so hard? Explain in terms which everyone can understand, instead of making baseless assertions.
What do you have to do differently in the 6r4 fight? How many more hits do you have to land? Do you need to use more complicated rotations? How much longer do those fights last?
The fights are only scored on HP and time - so it only comes down to how much longer the fights last and how many more hits you need to land.
You're not fighting a champ, you're fighting another player.
*Pleas bring up that BGS isn't live pvp, lol.
As usual, you avoid any meaningful debate and stick to broad, meaningless assertions.
You win a match if you win 2 out of 3 rounds. Result of a round is the difference in scores between two fights. And they are scored on 3 aspects, two are HP related, one is the time to finish the fight.
How is facing a 6r4 with a 6r4 different than 5r5 with 5r5? Why do you think the player with a 5-star roster facing another one with a 5-star roster is having an easier time than you are with your 6-star roster facing other 6-stars?
Because you're completely discounting the human factor of playing BG matches vs the best players in the game.
I'm not fighting a 6r4 vs a 6r4, I'm fighting vs another player to see who had the best fight to win that round.
How many Cavs or TBs get 50k points let alone lose a round where they score 50k? That happens all the time in endgame BGs.
45-50K points is not uncommon in BG. 80% HP, K.O defender and a 60 second fight gets you to 49.5K points. Using a 5-star or 6-star doesn't change that equation. Cav/TB fights are not always about who gets in the most hits before being K.Oed.
Agree about the human factor, the stronger rosters are also likely to be more knowledgeable about the game and more skillful. But there are also enough people who have high prestige but not the equivalent skills and there are alts which are run by high skilled players (weak rosters but skilled players). I don't think you can make a sweeping statement that a 15-17K roster means you are facing youtubers at all times.
~6K people are in GC, the very best players are long gone from VT.
Actually thats where u are wrong... Look at every Side quest or SOLO event thay had a currency as reward other than BG... Lower progressions always earn less and paid more... BG is the only one that had same milestone rewards, same objective rewards and same tier climb rewards for all progressions and the only difference is the store... If u r UC u r 3 progressions levels behind.. doesnt even make sense u r competing or playing against Paragons for rewards...
SQ paid less if you did lower difficulty, same difficulty gives the same amount of currency - complete threat level 5, you get threat level 5 rewards. In BG, difficulty is relative. A 10K roster vs. 10K roster is almost the same difficulty as 17k v 17k.
10K vs 17K is very easy for a 17K roster and almost impossible for a 10K roster. It's an EOP level match for the 10K and may threat level 2 for the 17K. The 10K players can play flawlessly 100% health, the most ideal rotation etc. and 9 out of 10 times they will still lose because the other match got over sooner. Conversely, the 17k player can take many hits, mess up a few times and will still win almost every one of those match-ups. But you want 17K to get top end rewards for doing this and 10K to get something worthless.
UC is competing with UC to get currency to buy UC rewards. Paragons and doing the same.
This is so unequivocally wrong that it's almost not worth discussing.
Why is it wrong? The result of a BG round is based on the relative results of the two fights in the round. A 6r4 has ~50% more attack and HP as compared to a 5r5 of the same champ.
Imagine a 5r5 roster facing off against an similar 5r5 roster - maybe they need 30 hits to K.O the defender, their opponents also need to land a similar number of hits in a similar amount of time to win the match.
When a 6r4 roster faces off against an equal 6r4 roster, the math is largely the same. Since HP and attack increases are almost equal.
When a 6r4 roster faces off against the same 5r5 roster - with a 6r4 champ you only need 20 hits to down the defender. On the other side, the 5r5 needs 45 hits to down the 6r4 defender. Even if the 5r5 plays a perfect game, there is very little chance that they win the match since the room for error with a 6r4 is so much more.
If you wants rewards at your progression level, you should at least be willing to face opponents at your progression level. Picking on teams with 2x handicaps to rake in rewards is not the Paragon thing to do.
The 10K roster who has progressed hasn't played any easier games than you did to get to your level. Because BG matches are relative not absolute.
Is winning a high school football game just as difficult as winning an NFL game?
Yes... it is higher level of play dosent mean higher difficulty imagine you have 2 high grade machines pushing at each other both of them applying 50 pounds of force vs 2 low grade machines the each only apply 20 pounds of force the struggle on boths sides is equal
Wrong.
What even is your example? Pounds of force? How does that apply to a sport?
It truly is shocking how many people think that winning a pro game is the same as an HS game. It really shows why so many don't grasp the reality of what Paragons are going through in the VT.
What dont you get? If you cant understand something as simple as that then there is no hope for you i even dumbed it down, the point was that a uc fighting a equal match against a uc is just as difficult as a paragon fighting a equal match against a paragon something you'd understand if your mind wasnt on one track, you keep replying saying "wrong" and "that is a fact" but someone who can only ever think of themselves can never be right.
1) Your argument about UC/Cavs/TBs would hold water if they were "stuck" at that progression level and HAD to use the rewards gained from VT/GC on lower stores. That isnt the case. You could max out on trophy tokens over a couple seasons easily, while moving up in progression levels and using it on "higher rewards" quite easily.
In my view, there is no evidence of token hoarding at any meaningful scale. Most people will use the tokens to strengthen and progress just like all other in-game currencies are used. Extending the hoarding logic, it makes sense to save a lot of in-game currencies, why spend units ever, their value only increases over time due to inflation in the game (better deals).
These arguments are what have frustration quite a few paragons stuck at the lower levels. Lower paragon engagement has fallen off considerably. Which is why changes was necessary. another fact is that a lot of this game is progression gated. There is nothing wrong that BGs can be gated as well. Not strong enough for VT? develop your roster and come back. That is how story progression used to be gated, and actually still is (albeit it is much easier now).
Paragons stuck at lower levels is due to the progression system rather than due to lower accounts. The win rate hurdle couldn't be met since they couldn't beat their peers. This should be better next season with the revised progression system. The solution to this is not providing lower strength accounts for them to beat.
There is risk to excessive gating is that BG requires extensive participation to create enough volumes to provide matches. If early Paragons don't see a value in the mode with the store they have access to and 10-15K tokens from daily objectives alone, what do you think will happen to participation from lower accounts (who get much lower value from BG stores) if they have no path to progression at all.
Roster advantage in BG can be insurmountable at even moderate gaps. Expecting 10K rosters to match up against 15-17K rosters consistently is a sure fire way to get them to drop off from the mode. That doesn't help anyone.
1) There is no evidence to them not hoarding either. I ran an experiment with a mini of mine and coasted to GC no problems as a UC for 2 seasons now. Now im TB after pushing content and i can use my trophy tokens. Win win for me.
2) I agree that the win factor will be improved, but disagree that gating isnt needed. It is, like is every gamemode. Competitive or otherwise. War was prestige locked before to disastrous results. BGs shouldnt follow that route.
Either ways, i dont want to engage any further. Most of the arguments here from either side are theoretical and what if's. I'd like to see how the new system works before making any more statements.
Actually thats where u are wrong... Look at every Side quest or SOLO event thay had a currency as reward other than BG... Lower progressions always earn less and paid more... BG is the only one that had same milestone rewards, same objective rewards and same tier climb rewards for all progressions and the only difference is the store... If u r UC u r 3 progressions levels behind.. doesnt even make sense u r competing or playing against Paragons for rewards...
SQ paid less if you did lower difficulty, same difficulty gives the same amount of currency - complete threat level 5, you get threat level 5 rewards. In BG, difficulty is relative. A 10K roster vs. 10K roster is almost the same difficulty as 17k v 17k.
10K vs 17K is very easy for a 17K roster and almost impossible for a 10K roster. It's an EOP level match for the 10K and may threat level 2 for the 17K. The 10K players can play flawlessly 100% health, the most ideal rotation etc. and 9 out of 10 times they will still lose because the other match got over sooner. Conversely, the 17k player can take many hits, mess up a few times and will still win almost every one of those match-ups. But you want 17K to get top end rewards for doing this and 10K to get something worthless.
UC is competing with UC to get currency to buy UC rewards. Paragons and doing the same.
This is so unequivocally wrong that it's almost not worth discussing.
Why is it wrong? The result of a BG round is based on the relative results of the two fights in the round. A 6r4 has ~50% more attack and HP as compared to a 5r5 of the same champ.
Imagine a 5r5 roster facing off against an similar 5r5 roster - maybe they need 30 hits to K.O the defender, their opponents also need to land a similar number of hits in a similar amount of time to win the match.
When a 6r4 roster faces off against an equal 6r4 roster, the math is largely the same. Since HP and attack increases are almost equal.
When a 6r4 roster faces off against the same 5r5 roster - with a 6r4 champ you only need 20 hits to down the defender. On the other side, the 5r5 needs 45 hits to down the 6r4 defender. Even if the 5r5 plays a perfect game, there is very little chance that they win the match since the room for error with a 6r4 is so much more.
If you wants rewards at your progression level, you should at least be willing to face opponents at your progression level. Picking on teams with 2x handicaps to rake in rewards is not the Paragon thing to do.
The 10K roster who has progressed hasn't played any easier games than you did to get to your level. Because BG matches are relative not absolute.
Is winning a high school football game just as difficult as winning an NFL game?
Yes... it is higher level of play dosent mean higher difficulty imagine you have 2 high grade machines pushing at each other both of them applying 50 pounds of force vs 2 low grade machines the each only apply 20 pounds of force the struggle on boths sides is equal
Wrong.
What even is your example? Pounds of force? How does that apply to a sport?
It truly is shocking how many people think that winning a pro game is the same as an HS game. It really shows why so many don't grasp the reality of what Paragons are going through in the VT.
What dont you get? If you cant understand something as simple as that then there is no hope for you i even dumbed it down, the point was that a uc fighting a equal match against a uc is just as difficult as a paragon fighting a equal match against a paragon something you'd understand if your mind wasnt on one track, you keep replying saying "wrong" and "that is a fact" but someone who can only ever think of themselves can never be right.
It's not the same, roster progression is completely diferent. an UC player wont focus on defensive rankups since he's supposed to focus on offense in order to progress.
An UC player might place Korg on defense but I can bet a large purse he's not spending sigs on that Korg, and if he is, he's placing BGs in a higher priority than progressing through story content, which would be a huge mistake.
Skill and dedication might be the same at lower levels, but roster depth is not.
Comments
If I recall, you had mentioned that ~220K people played at least one BG match during the last season? Let's say 50% of those play matches every day (to meet the objectives). i.e. ~110K people play BG matches every day, if we assume they are evenly spread across the day that's ~5K players looking for a match every hour, implying a pool of less than 1,000 players to match in every 10 min interval. Factor in GC, VT tiers etc. that pool shrinks even further. This is not a setup where you want to remove incentives for playing.
Maybe I'm being harsh, maybe all 200K+ players play everyday, maybe they spend much more than 10-15 min on the game mode. Upside case, is that there are thousands of motivated players at any given moment and it's the Paragons who are not engaged enough with the game mode. In that case, it makes sense to sacrifice the lower accounts to boost engagement of the higher ones.
Realistically, I don't think there is an easy answer to matchmaking which sustains participation levels high enough and makes the mid-level Paragons happy (top end players are anyway progressing through).
It is infinitely harder for anyone to get into an NFL team vs. a high school team or whatever lower league you want to consider. An NFL player playing in HS league would find it very easy, that doesn't mean HS teams playing other HS teams have it easier than NFL teams playing other NFL teams.
Its not me saying it.. its Kabam
And that was under S7 mechanics. Under S8 mechanics, even moreso because it would be even easier to hit the jackpot with promotions.
The jump from Uncollected to Paragon is quite a leap. I don't see Players hoarding the Tokens to make it there specifically in order to cash in.
What even is your example? Pounds of force? How does that apply to a sport?
It truly is shocking how many people think that winning a pro game is the same as an HS game. It really shows why so many don't grasp the reality of what Paragons are going through in the VT.
"How is facing a 6r4 champ with a 6r4 champ different than facing a 5r5 champ with a 5r5 champ in VT in BG?"
To me, very similar fights but you seem to think facing a 6r4 with a 6r4 is a 5-10x more challenging. What makes that fight so hard? Explain in terms which everyone can understand, instead of making baseless assertions.
What do you have to do differently in the 6r4 fight? How many more hits do you have to land? Do you need to use more complicated rotations? How much longer do those fights last?
The fights are only scored on HP and time - so it only comes down to how much longer the fights last and how many more hits you need to land.
On a relatively scale those matchups are very similar and not of exponentially higher difficulty as it is made out to be. The 10K roster that progresses by beating other 10K rosters is not facing easier matchups than the 17K roster would because the scoring is relative.
I get that the 10K roster can have harder matchups, because there are stronger rosters around and matchmaking ignores those. So they do have an easier path than what is potentially possible.
But they also have access to much lower rewards than what the 17K roster has, because the store restricts what they can get for their winnings. It is naïve to expect a 10K roster to constantly face off against a 17K roster and then divvy up the rewards by progression levels. Why would any 10K player want to be part of that mode?
When people at the top progression level complain that weaker rosters have progressed, they ignore that there are many more of those rosters who have not progressed and far higher percentage of players at the highest progression level who have moved up.
The frustration is with progressing in the mode (which is being addressed next season), why take it out on smaller accounts? They are not doing anything lesser in terms of effort, and they played by the rules to get where they are. It's silly to keep telling them their progress is undeserved.
*Pleas bring up that BGS isn't live pvp, lol.
Those 3 factors are absolutely affected by what you're using versus what you're coming up against.
You win a match if you win 2 out of 3 rounds. Result of a round is the difference in scores between two fights. And they are scored on 3 aspects, two are HP related, one is the time to finish the fight.
How is facing a 6r4 with a 6r4 different than 5r5 with 5r5? Why do you think the player with a 5-star roster facing another one with a 5-star roster is having an easier time than you are with your 6-star roster facing other 6-stars?
1) Your argument about UC/Cavs/TBs would hold water if they were "stuck" at that progression level and HAD to use the rewards gained from VT/GC on lower stores. That isnt the case. You could max out on trophy tokens over a couple seasons easily, while moving up in progression levels and using it on "higher rewards" quite easily.
2) Part of the progression rewards for VT includes large chunks of trophy tokens, and Elders marks. For paragons suck at a low level, Elders marks are impossible to come by unless they spend units, another source of frustration. 5* relic shards also affect paragons for prestige/ BG purposes, another thing they miss out on.
3) 10k vs 10k and 17k vs 17k have completely different difficulties. Since 17k rosters are more developed, there is very little wiggle room in a match. dont have a good counter to domino or WPX, or Jessica. too bad, you lose. That isnt the case for a UC/Cav, as they are unlikely to have the strongest defenders at a high rank/max sig. I've tested t various levels with my minis and seen this.
These arguments are what have frustration quite a few paragons stuck at the lower levels. Lower paragon engagement has fallen off considerably. Which is why changes was necessary.
another fact is that a lot of this game is progression gated. There is nothing wrong that BGs can be gated as well. Not strong enough for VT? develop your roster and come back. That is how story progression used to be gated, and actually still is (albeit it is much easier now).
I'm not fighting a 6r4 vs a 6r4, I'm fighting vs another player to see who had the best fight to win that round.
How many Cavs or TBs get 50k points let alone lose a round where they score 50k? That happens all the time in endgame BGs.
There is risk to excessive gating is that BG requires extensive participation to create enough volumes to provide matches. If early Paragons don't see a value in the mode with the store they have access to and 10-15K tokens from daily objectives alone, what do you think will happen to participation from lower accounts (who get much lower value from BG stores) if they have no path to progression at all.
Roster advantage in BG can be insurmountable at even moderate gaps. Expecting 10K rosters to match up against 15-17K rosters consistently is a sure fire way to get them to drop off from the mode. That doesn't help anyone.
Either we have leagues separating one another by way of progression or the matchmaking is 100% random. All this fiddling in the middle is getting them nowhere
Trying to make a mode work that all of UC, Cav, TB and Paragon participate in w/o any type of tiering and starting everyone at 0 will never work.
Agree about the human factor, the stronger rosters are also likely to be more knowledgeable about the game and more skillful. But there are also enough people who have high prestige but not the equivalent skills and there are alts which are run by high skilled players (weak rosters but skilled players). I don't think you can make a sweeping statement that a 15-17K roster means you are facing youtubers at all times.
~6K people are in GC, the very best players are long gone from VT.
2) I agree that the win factor will be improved, but disagree that gating isnt needed. It is, like is every gamemode. Competitive or otherwise. War was prestige locked before to disastrous results. BGs shouldnt follow that route.
Either ways, i dont want to engage any further. Most of the arguments here from either side are theoretical and what if's. I'd like to see how the new system works before making any more statements.
An UC player might place Korg on defense but I can bet a large purse he's not spending sigs on that Korg, and if he is, he's placing BGs in a higher priority than progressing through story content, which would be a huge mistake.
Skill and dedication might be the same at lower levels, but roster depth is not.