I don't see the issue. You're giving people free wins, some of which would have 0 chance to beat you. What, exactly, is wrong with that?
I thought the same thing, it's almost as though some are playing it properly to grind their points where others are working smarter and getting the same points for less effort. Bitterness 🤷♂️
I don't see the issue. You're giving people free wins, some of which would have 0 chance to beat you. What, exactly, is wrong with that?
I thought the same thing, it's almost as though some are playing it properly to grind their points where others are working smarter and getting the same points for less effort. Bitterness 🤷♂️
People just don't like strategy. Is there gonna be a thread made about throwing the second fight to ensure you win the third? Shouldn't that be considered cheating too?
I don't see the issue. You're giving people free wins, some of which would have 0 chance to beat you. What, exactly, is wrong with that?
I thought the same thing, it's almost as though some are playing it properly to grind their points where others are working smarter and getting the same points for less effort. Bitterness 🤷♂️
People just don't like strategy. Is there gonna be a thread made about throwing the second fight to ensure you win the third? Shouldn't that be considered cheating too?
Completely agree, if this is being considered cheating than so should that
Manipulating a game mode against its intent is not something to be pursued. “We are giving people wins” and also costing others wins while cheaply getting more points in the rankings as opposed to someone playing within the spirit of competition.
Sad thing is most doing this probably don’t even need to farm, they could get to GC and get all the points they need anyway playing the right way.
The amount of justification is astounding. You are negatively affecting other players in the overall rankings who are advancing further than you in the mode. You can’t spin that.
I don't see the issue. You're giving people free wins, some of which would have 0 chance to beat you. What, exactly, is wrong with that?
I thought the same thing, it's almost as though some are playing it properly to grind their points where others are working smarter and getting the same points for less effort. Bitterness 🤷♂️
People just don't like strategy. Is there gonna be a thread made about throwing the second fight to ensure you win the third? Shouldn't that be considered cheating too?
If you can’t find the deficiencies in that analogy, I don’t know what to tell you.
I don't see the issue. You're giving people free wins, some of which would have 0 chance to beat you. What, exactly, is wrong with that?
I thought the same thing, it's almost as though some are playing it properly to grind their points where others are working smarter and getting the same points for less effort. Bitterness 🤷♂️
People just don't like strategy. Is there gonna be a thread made about throwing the second fight to ensure you win the third? Shouldn't that be considered cheating too?
If you can’t find the deficiencies in that analogy, I don’t know what to tell you.
Just because we're not running around with a bow and arrow, doesn't mean we're not hunting these chickens
Manipulating a game mode against its intent is not something to be pursued. “We are giving people wins” and also costing others wins while cheaply getting more points in the rankings as opposed to someone playing within the spirit of competition.
Sad thing is most doing this probably don’t even need to farm, they could get to GC and get all the points they need anyway playing the right way.
The amount of justification is astounding. You are negatively affecting other players in the overall rankings who are advancing further than you in the mode. You can’t spin that.
I cant for some reason associate "Spirit of competition" , fair play, ethical with mcoc in anyway, not sure why, lol
Manipulating a game mode against its intent is not something to be pursued. “We are giving people wins” and also costing others wins while cheaply getting more points in the rankings as opposed to someone playing within the spirit of competition.
Sad thing is most doing this probably don’t even need to farm, they could get to GC and get all the points they need anyway playing the right way.
The amount of justification is astounding. You are negatively affecting other players in the overall rankings who are advancing further than you in the mode. You can’t spin that.
I cant for some reason associate "Spirit of competition" , fair play, ethical with mcoc in anyway, not sure why, lol
So because of what Kabam does… that justifies beating up on small accounts and taking away ranking positions from summoners similar to your status. That’s an interesting ethical statement.
Sad thing is most doing this probably don’t even need to farm, they could get to GC and get all the points they need anyway playing the right way.
If you don't want to spend units on marks and still want to place high in the rankings then this strategy is what you have to do to compete with people spending on marks. All those high aw players who spend on aw will now spend on battlegrounds. A lot of alliances with 250k min upped to 400k min bg score.
Manipulating a game mode against its intent is not something to be pursued. “We are giving people wins” and also costing others wins while cheaply getting more points in the rankings as opposed to someone playing within the spirit of competition.
It is with the spirit of competition though. It's in the spirit of competition of getting more points in the rankings of the solo/alli events. In the last week it will also be in the spirit of competition to rank as high as possible on the GC. You can't define spirit of competition as only getting as high of a rank as possible in the GC when you have ranked rewards in solo and alliance events.
The amount of justification is astounding. You are negatively affecting other players in the overall rankings who are advancing further than you in the mode. You can’t spin that.
The other players are able to do this too, nobody is telling them to advance as much as possible. Other players probably also know that getting higher equals lowering your win percentage which equals less points in solo and alliance events. They can also use this strategy to get more points and quite frankly I don't see why they would.
Kabam probably didn't intend the system to work this way but for this season it does, and it even gives lower players opportunity to get higher rewards than the would have gotten (see my previous comment) so I think it isn't really all that unethical as you make it out to be.
I don't see the issue. You're giving people free wins, some of which would have 0 chance to beat you. What, exactly, is wrong with that?
I thought the same thing, it's almost as though some are playing it properly to grind their points where others are working smarter and getting the same points for less effort. Bitterness 🤷♂️
People just don't like strategy. Is there gonna be a thread made about throwing the second fight to ensure you win the third? Shouldn't that be considered cheating too?
If you can’t find the deficiencies in that analogy, I don’t know what to tell you.
Paragon beats three TBs with elder marks on Diamond 2 then loses three on purpose with energy so he can stay on the same league and win three matches again with elder marks since most accounts will be weaker than theirs on that league. On GC however that same Paragon wouldn't win that many matches so easily. As I said I don't see an issue with it and I don't consider it cheating I just think it's scummy and it sucks for the people on the receiving end hence I haven't done it myself
Dont hate the player hate the game my guy 🤷♂️
I'm already in GC there's nothing to hate here I just wouldn't want to be on the receiving end if I was one of those poor UC or Cav players. You asked why I think it's wrong to do this and I replied
Again for every UC or Cav player that gets beaten, there is one UC or Cav player that will take a free win, or even the very same UC/Cav on his next match. Overall it's a zero sum game, not any specific demographic (overall) is losing anything. That's the big picture of it. The only thing that is slightly affected by this, are the solo BGs ranked rewards. If two identical players play the same number of matches, use the same amount of resources (Elder Marks and Energy) and win the same number of matches, the one that farmed will end up with much more points, as his EM win ratio will be close to 100%, while statistically the non farmer's will be only around 50%.
Climbing up is not what makes this scummy though what makes it scummy is the fact that those players are wasting their elder marks while I could've easily just sat there getting value out of 80% of my elder marks since I can pick when I win and when I lose 80% of the time. When I got to Diamond 1 yesterday all the whales had moved up to GC already and it wasn't that hard for me to move up to GC today early in the morning. If you ask me that's not a slight difference that's a pretty big difference they would've been wasting more than half of their elder marks while for me it would've been the complete opposite had I decided to do this
Are you just upset you didn’t think of this before advancing to GC?
I don't think there is anything wrong with "farming": they looked at the way scoring works and decided to optimize it. Just like any other strategies, it always sucks if you are on the wrong end of it.
You can't force someone to win and move up. Just like you can't stop me from waiting for one week to start my BG run so I face easier opponents on my way up. (Yes, I tried doing BG on day 1 and I couldn't win a single round in 5 matches in Bronze 3).
What you can do instead is to give incentives for people to move up. One way is to give a point multiplier for the solo and alliance events for each tier. That way there is an incentive for people to move up. As long as they don't also raise the milestones and make it harder for ordinary people to get them.
I wonder how many people was already doing this prior to this month but because of the extra rewards this month people are now starting to notice it 🤔.
There is no Manipulating going on with this method in my eyes.
If this isn't what they want then they need to reevaluate the whole VT of BGs.
I wonder how many people was already doing this prior to this month but because of the extra rewards this month people are now starting to notice it 🤔.
There is no Manipulating going on with this method in my eyes.
If this isn't what they want then they need to reevaluate the whole VT of BGs.
You mean people camping out for easy Wins? I highly doubt that's what they want. How is that a competition? Much less fair to the Players being pecked off. I've heard that justification countless times. "If they allow it then it's fair."
I wonder how many people was already doing this prior to this month but because of the extra rewards this month people are now starting to notice it 🤔.
There is no Manipulating going on with this method in my eyes.
If this isn't what they want then they need to reevaluate the whole VT of BGs.
Oh there is manipulating going on?.. like fixing the matchmaking so UC and Cav get catered matches to Plat?...
I wonder how many people was already doing this prior to this month but because of the extra rewards this month people are now starting to notice it 🤔.
There is no Manipulating going on with this method in my eyes.
If this isn't what they want then they need to reevaluate the whole VT of BGs.
You mean people camping out for easy Wins? I highly doubt that's what they want. How is that a competition? Much less fair to the Players being pecked off. I've heard that justification countless times. "If they allow it then it's fair."
There are also players being propelled forward who probably don't deserve it. So it's balanced in a way I guess? If those low accounts play enough they will also face the big guys who need to forfeit to stay in that tier. So they will eventually get out since win = gain 2 and lose = lose 1.
I wonder how many people was already doing this prior to this month but because of the extra rewards this month people are now starting to notice it 🤔.
There is no Manipulating going on with this method in my eyes.
If this isn't what they want then they need to reevaluate the whole VT of BGs.
You mean people camping out for easy Wins? I highly doubt that's what they want. How is that a competition? Much less fair to the Players being pecked off. I've heard that justification countless times. "If they allow it then it's fair."
Aren't you the one who has been preaching about how its fair for UC/CAV to get fair matchmatking at the beginning to keep them engage?... Well people are throwing a reverse UNO card at those people who got that far up....seems totally fair
I wonder how many people was already doing this prior to this month but because of the extra rewards this month people are now starting to notice it 🤔.
There is no Manipulating going on with this method in my eyes.
If this isn't what they want then they need to reevaluate the whole VT of BGs.
You mean people camping out for easy Wins? I highly doubt that's what they want. How is that a competition? Much less fair to the Players being pecked off. I've heard that justification countless times. "If they allow it then it's fair."
There are also players being propelled forward who probably don't deserve it. So it's balanced in a way I guess? If those low accounts play enough they will also face the big guys who need to forfeit to stay in that tier. So they will eventually get out since win = gain 2 and lose = lose 1.
There are no winners in that. People who haven't earned the Wins are being pushed up, some to their own frustration because they hit real competition after that. The people getting pecked off are not being helped. The "peckers" aren't earning their Rewards fairly either. Then Kabam has to look at ways to prevent it that affect the entire system. There is no good that comes from manipulating the Matchmaking.
I wonder how many people was already doing this prior to this month but because of the extra rewards this month people are now starting to notice it 🤔.
There is no Manipulating going on with this method in my eyes.
If this isn't what they want then they need to reevaluate the whole VT of BGs.
You mean people camping out for easy Wins? I highly doubt that's what they want. How is that a competition? Much less fair to the Players being pecked off. I've heard that justification countless times. "If they allow it then it's fair."
There are also players being propelled forward who probably don't deserve it. So it's balanced in a way I guess? If those low accounts play enough they will also face the big guys who need to forfeit to stay in that tier. So they will eventually get out since win = gain 2 and lose = lose 1.
There are no winners in that. People who haven't earned the Wins are being pushed up, some to their own frustration because they hit real competition after that. The people getting pecked off are not being helped. The "peckers" aren't earning their Rewards fairly either. Then Kabam has to look at ways to prevent it that affect the entire system. There is no good that comes from manipulating the Matchmaking.
You mean people who have hit their ceiling and wouldn't gain more rewards are now able to earn more rewards. It might cause frustrarion but they also get more rewards than they should. The "peckers" are also fighting big accounts in that bracket so tey aren't 100% stomping on small accounts.
Read my other 2 big comments in this thread then come back to this, I explain it more clearly there.
But overall I agree that camping shouldn't be the solution but that's what you get when you have a competitive ladder system with diminishing win rate the higher you go and solo/alliance event that award more points for wins.
I wonder how many people was already doing this prior to this month but because of the extra rewards this month people are now starting to notice it 🤔.
There is no Manipulating going on with this method in my eyes.
If this isn't what they want then they need to reevaluate the whole VT of BGs.
You mean people camping out for easy Wins? I highly doubt that's what they want. How is that a competition? Much less fair to the Players being pecked off. I've heard that justification countless times. "If they allow it then it's fair."
There are also players being propelled forward who probably don't deserve it. So it's balanced in a way I guess? If those low accounts play enough they will also face the big guys who need to forfeit to stay in that tier. So they will eventually get out since win = gain 2 and lose = lose 1.
There are no winners in that. People who haven't earned the Wins are being pushed up, some to their own frustration because they hit real competition after that. The people getting pecked off are not being helped. The "peckers" aren't earning their Rewards fairly either. Then Kabam has to look at ways to prevent it that affect the entire system. There is no good that comes from manipulating the Matchmaking.
Why aren’t they earning their rewards? They are winning the matches they are dealt with just like other people who are advancing tiers. Wasn’t this your argument when you were comparing UC/UC matchups being as fair as paragon/paragon matchups?
Easy fix: give a higher point multiplier to higher tiers to incentivize people to move up. Make it not worth people's time to stay in lower tier if they can.
(as long as the people who "naturally" get to gold 1, plat, or whatever tier gets the same rewards as they would have before)
I don't see the issue. You're giving people free wins, some of which would have 0 chance to beat you. What, exactly, is wrong with that?
I thought the same thing, it's almost as though some are playing it properly to grind their points where others are working smarter and getting the same points for less effort. Bitterness 🤷♂️
People just don't like strategy. Is there gonna be a thread made about throwing the second fight to ensure you win the third? Shouldn't that be considered cheating too?
If you can’t find the deficiencies in that analogy, I don’t know what to tell you.
Please explain it to me.
For starters…. You both entered the match to win. If you lose a round on purpose to burn a defender and set yourself to ultimately when 2 of 3… that’s within the spirit of the match to ultimately succeed. No one is entering the match with the intent to not advance.
This is opposed to you entering a match with elders marks against someone with a lesser account with elders marks so that you can destroy them when you should have advanced out of that ranking long ago. For the next 3 matches you will tank with energy and start the process all over again.
The former is winning a match which is the point. The other is sandbagging and exploiting matchmaking to the detriment of other summoners in various ways.
(I am assuming you weren’t being obtuse when you asked to explain why your analogy fails).
I wonder how many people was already doing this prior to this month but because of the extra rewards this month people are now starting to notice it 🤔.
There is no Manipulating going on with this method in my eyes.
If this isn't what they want then they need to reevaluate the whole VT of BGs.
You mean people camping out for easy Wins? I highly doubt that's what they want. How is that a competition? Much less fair to the Players being pecked off. I've heard that justification countless times. "If they allow it then it's fair."
There are also players being propelled forward who probably don't deserve it. So it's balanced in a way I guess? If those low accounts play enough they will also face the big guys who need to forfeit to stay in that tier. So they will eventually get out since win = gain 2 and lose = lose 1.
There are no winners in that. People who haven't earned the Wins are being pushed up, some to their own frustration because they hit real competition after that. The people getting pecked off are not being helped. The "peckers" aren't earning their Rewards fairly either. Then Kabam has to look at ways to prevent it that affect the entire system. There is no good that comes from manipulating the Matchmaking.
You mean people who have hit their ceiling and wouldn't gain more rewards are now able to earn more rewards. It might cause frustrarion but they also get more rewards than they should. The "peckers" are also fighting big accounts in that bracket so tey aren't 100% stomping on small accounts.
Read my other 2 big comments in this thread then come back to this, I explain it more clearly there.
But overall I agree that camping shouldn't be the solution but that's what you get when you have a competitive ladder system with diminishing win rate the higher you go and solo/alliance event that award more points for wins.
I don't call that a ceiling. Being byed into the next Tier so Players can grab easy Wins is not a ceiling. It's a bastardizaton of the system. You have lower Players being pecked off in that Tier, and lower Players being pecked off from the byes further up. I find it interesting how there are all the justifications in the world for taking advantage of the system.
Easy fix: give a higher point multiplier to higher tiers to incentivize people to move up. Make it not worth people's time to stay in lower tier if they can.
(as long as the people who "naturally" get to gold 1, plat, or whatever tier gets the same rewards as they would have before)
Normally, people are incentivized by getting the rewards for reaching the next tier, and as long as that tier reward is substantially better than just getting more points in solo and alliance events, then there is not a lot of reason to bother to farm. But because of the extra rewards in solo and alliance events this month, things are out of balance.
So the question is: is this a problem only for this month? And will the problem reduce next month?
I have no clue. I hate BG myself and have never gone past Gold 1 just to get a little bit of rewards here and there...
I wonder how many people was already doing this prior to this month but because of the extra rewards this month people are now starting to notice it 🤔.
There is no Manipulating going on with this method in my eyes.
If this isn't what they want then they need to reevaluate the whole VT of BGs.
You mean people camping out for easy Wins? I highly doubt that's what they want. How is that a competition? Much less fair to the Players being pecked off. I've heard that justification countless times. "If they allow it then it's fair."
There are also players being propelled forward who probably don't deserve it. So it's balanced in a way I guess? If those low accounts play enough they will also face the big guys who need to forfeit to stay in that tier. So they will eventually get out since win = gain 2 and lose = lose 1.
How many lower accounts do you figure are lucky enough to hit 3-4 energy tanking matches in a row? I am guessing not many. I highly doubt these lower accounts are getting pushed up levels as you claim.
You have 3 groups active at any time: - the summoners playing the mode straight up - Sandbaggers using elders marks - Sandbaggers using energy to lose
They are going to get wrecked in 2 out of 3 in those scenarios.
Things have shifted.. The so called Pay to win players are actually trying not to spend units and maximize their return on elder marks... The so called F2P players, UC/Cav that were catered are getting even further up the VT and getting more rewards with a deterrent... Its been only the 1 week... Getting their onbjectives done the rest of the season will be a nightmare...(lol) Catered matches for 5 or 6 seasons.. being farmed for just 1 season... I really don't see a problem at all..
To be clear, I've forfeited many times. Difference is, it was because I knew I was beaten, or I knew the Roster was too stacked. The issue is complex because how do you distinguish the fair play from the unfair play and take some kind of action against it. I just personally have no tolerance for people taking advantage of the system or others. There's a difference between trying to progress, and just trying to milk the system.
I wonder how many people was already doing this prior to this month but because of the extra rewards this month people are now starting to notice it 🤔.
There is no Manipulating going on with this method in my eyes.
If this isn't what they want then they need to reevaluate the whole VT of BGs.
You mean people camping out for easy Wins? I highly doubt that's what they want. How is that a competition? Much less fair to the Players being pecked off. I've heard that justification countless times. "If they allow it then it's fair."
There are also players being propelled forward who probably don't deserve it. So it's balanced in a way I guess? If those low accounts play enough they will also face the big guys who need to forfeit to stay in that tier. So they will eventually get out since win = gain 2 and lose = lose 1.
How many lower accounts do you figure are lucky enough to hit 3-4 energy tanking matches in a row? I am guessing not many. I highly doubt these lower accounts are getting pushed up levels as you claim.
You have 3 groups active at any time: - the summoners playing the mode straight up - Sandbaggers using elders marks - Sandbaggers using energy to lose
They are going to get wrecked in 2 out of 3 in those scenarios.
They should have been wrecked since Bronze.. but the system was fixed to saved them from it until Plat... Kabam is the one who decided to put the small fish in a barrel...
I wonder how many people was already doing this prior to this month but because of the extra rewards this month people are now starting to notice it 🤔.
There is no Manipulating going on with this method in my eyes.
If this isn't what they want then they need to reevaluate the whole VT of BGs.
You mean people camping out for easy Wins? I highly doubt that's what they want. How is that a competition? Much less fair to the Players being pecked off. I've heard that justification countless times. "If they allow it then it's fair."
There are also players being propelled forward who probably don't deserve it. So it's balanced in a way I guess? If those low accounts play enough they will also face the big guys who need to forfeit to stay in that tier. So they will eventually get out since win = gain 2 and lose = lose 1.
There are no winners in that. People who haven't earned the Wins are being pushed up, some to their own frustration because they hit real competition after that. The people getting pecked off are not being helped. The "peckers" aren't earning their Rewards fairly either. Then Kabam has to look at ways to prevent it that affect the entire system. There is no good that comes from manipulating the Matchmaking.
You mean people who have hit their ceiling and wouldn't gain more rewards are now able to earn more rewards. It might cause frustrarion but they also get more rewards than they should. The "peckers" are also fighting big accounts in that bracket so tey aren't 100% stomping on small accounts.
Read my other 2 big comments in this thread then come back to this, I explain it more clearly there.
But overall I agree that camping shouldn't be the solution but that's what you get when you have a competitive ladder system with diminishing win rate the higher you go and solo/alliance event that award more points for wins.
I don't call that a ceiling. Being byed into the next Tier so Players can grab easy Wins is not a ceiling. It's a bastardizaton of the system. You have lower Players being pecked off in that Tier, and lower Players being pecked off from the byes further up. I find it interesting how there are all the justifications in the world for taking advantage of the system.
If they are getting pecked off by big accounts that means they are facing those big accounts anyway and will have trouble moving to the next tier. That's the ceiling im speaking off. The one that conquerer/unc/cav players have been complaining about because they face big rosters with their small roster.
Comments
Manipulating a game mode against its intent is not something to be pursued. “We are giving people wins” and also costing others wins while cheaply getting more points in the rankings as opposed to someone playing within the spirit of competition.
Sad thing is most doing this probably don’t even need to farm, they could get to GC and get all the points they need anyway playing the right way.
The amount of justification is astounding. You are negatively affecting other players in the overall rankings who are advancing further than you in the mode. You can’t spin that.
It is with the spirit of competition though. It's in the spirit of competition of getting more points in the rankings of the solo/alli events. In the last week it will also be in the spirit of competition to rank as high as possible on the GC. You can't define spirit of competition as only getting as high of a rank as possible in the GC when you have ranked rewards in solo and alliance events.
The other players are able to do this too, nobody is telling them to advance as much as possible. Other players probably also know that getting higher equals lowering your win percentage which equals less points in solo and alliance events. They can also use this strategy to get more points and quite frankly I don't see why they would.
Kabam probably didn't intend the system to work this way but for this season it does, and it even gives lower players opportunity to get higher rewards than the would have gotten (see my previous comment) so I think it isn't really all that unethical as you make it out to be.
You can't force someone to win and move up. Just like you can't stop me from waiting for one week to start my BG run so I face easier opponents on my way up. (Yes, I tried doing BG on day 1 and I couldn't win a single round in 5 matches in Bronze 3).
What you can do instead is to give incentives for people to move up. One way is to give a point multiplier for the solo and alliance events for each tier. That way there is an incentive for people to move up. As long as they don't also raise the milestones and make it harder for ordinary people to get them.
There is no Manipulating going on with this method in my eyes.
If this isn't what they want then they need to reevaluate the whole VT of BGs.
Well people are throwing a reverse UNO card at those people who got that far up....seems totally fair
Read my other 2 big comments in this thread then come back to this, I explain it more clearly there.
But overall I agree that camping shouldn't be the solution but that's what you get when you have a competitive ladder system with diminishing win rate the higher you go and solo/alliance event that award more points for wins.
Wasn’t this your argument when you were comparing UC/UC matchups being as fair as paragon/paragon matchups?
(as long as the people who "naturally" get to gold 1, plat, or whatever tier gets the same rewards as they would have before)
This is opposed to you entering a match with elders marks against someone with a lesser account with elders marks so that you can destroy them when you should have advanced out of that ranking long ago. For the next 3 matches you will tank with energy and start the process all over again.
The former is winning a match which is the point. The other is sandbagging and exploiting matchmaking to the detriment of other summoners in various ways.
(I am assuming you weren’t being obtuse when you asked to explain why your analogy fails).
So the question is: is this a problem only for this month? And will the problem reduce next month?
I have no clue. I hate BG myself and have never gone past Gold 1 just to get a little bit of rewards here and there...
You have 3 groups active at any time:
- the summoners playing the mode straight up
- Sandbaggers using elders marks
- Sandbaggers using energy to lose
They are going to get wrecked in 2 out of 3 in those scenarios.
The so called Pay to win players are actually trying not to spend units and maximize their return on elder marks...
The so called F2P players, UC/Cav that were catered are getting even further up the VT and getting more rewards with a deterrent... Its been only the 1 week... Getting their onbjectives done the rest of the season will be a nightmare...(lol)
Catered matches for 5 or 6 seasons.. being farmed for just 1 season... I really don't see a problem at all..
I just personally have no tolerance for people taking advantage of the system or others. There's a difference between trying to progress, and just trying to milk the system.
Kabam is the one who decided to put the small fish in a barrel...