People tanking in battlegrounds

124

Comments

  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,566 ★★★★★

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    There's nothing rational about faking a spot to take advantage of weaker Players and mess the system up, just because they're afraid of taking their Losses like everyone else.

    Their road to Plat is fake...

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Smaller Accounts are a part of the competition, whether you agree with it or not. That ship has sailed.
    As they are there, it's not reasonable to bash them around Bronze every Season and tell them "Tough!".

    Its not fair that I am sweating matches between 17-18k Prestiege all the way to Plat either while others are limited to fight Conqueros, UC and Cav...
    You said it yourself.. you are in Diamond... Had trouble other seasons.. this has been strange match ups... I honestly don't know if you would have made it out of Plat with a 13k prestiege roster... And I am not poking, I am seriously not doing that... But if people didn't send smaller accounts it might have been tough for a lot of accounts to even reach Diamond.. specially in this season that engages the largest pool of people...
    I'm a couple Wins away from the GC. I earned it with my share of Losses, but I'm not just coming up against 13k Prestige opponents either. Some lower, some higher, been beaten by lower, beaten Players higher than me....it's really varied to be honest.
    I am not questioning if you earned it not...
    Truth is farmers have sent a ton of accounts into Diamond or even GC...so u might have benefitted from this issue as well.. I dont see you opening a ticket asking to return the rewards from advancing from beating a few smaller accounts...once again not poking at you... Facing bigger accounts is a given for any other season.. smaller in diamond not so much...
    I've experienced maybe 2 Forfeits that had larger Accounts. Given the option, I'd take them back. No question. I can wait.
    Im not talking about people forfeiting to you.. i'm talking about the wins you had against lower accounts... They wouldnt have been there in the first place unless some people send them up...
    I think you'll find they're better than you think they are.
    Then why are there so many 10k-12k accounts complaining about facing 15k+ accounts...
    I'd barely say so many. There have been a few that have come to the Forum, sure.
    If there's one thing I've learned over the years online, it's that someone will always have a complaint.
    Also, the road to Plat is not fake.
    Seeing how a difficult time they have after they reach Plat is fake... Is not in the spirit of competition... The spirit of competition is competing against the odds, not nerfing your way so you can collect rewards...
    Okay. Let's have it your way.
    Make it random in Bronze 3. See how long people keep playing it.
    You can't include lower Players in a game mode and tell them they just have to deal with being slaughtered at the onset.
    I don't care what your justification is. That's not a fair start.
    Perfect, give them their own BGs with much lesser rewards.
    That's not an option, and Kabam has indicated as much.
  • StatureStature Member Posts: 469 ★★★

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    There's nothing rational about faking a spot to take advantage of weaker Players and mess the system up, just because they're afraid of taking their Losses like everyone else.

    Their road to Plat is fake...

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Smaller Accounts are a part of the competition, whether you agree with it or not. That ship has sailed.
    As they are there, it's not reasonable to bash them around Bronze every Season and tell them "Tough!".

    Its not fair that I am sweating matches between 17-18k Prestiege all the way to Plat either while others are limited to fight Conqueros, UC and Cav...
    You said it yourself.. you are in Diamond... Had trouble other seasons.. this has been strange match ups... I honestly don't know if you would have made it out of Plat with a 13k prestiege roster... And I am not poking, I am seriously not doing that... But if people didn't send smaller accounts it might have been tough for a lot of accounts to even reach Diamond.. specially in this season that engages the largest pool of people...
    I'm a couple Wins away from the GC. I earned it with my share of Losses, but I'm not just coming up against 13k Prestige opponents either. Some lower, some higher, been beaten by lower, beaten Players higher than me....it's really varied to be honest.
    I am not questioning if you earned it not...
    Truth is farmers have sent a ton of accounts into Diamond or even GC...so u might have benefitted from this issue as well.. I dont see you opening a ticket asking to return the rewards from advancing from beating a few smaller accounts...once again not poking at you... Facing bigger accounts is a given for any other season.. smaller in diamond not so much...
    I've experienced maybe 2 Forfeits that had larger Accounts. Given the option, I'd take them back. No question. I can wait.
    Im not talking about people forfeiting to you.. i'm talking about the wins you had against lower accounts... They wouldnt have been there in the first place unless some people send them up...
    I think you'll find they're better than you think they are.
    Then why are there so many 10k-12k accounts complaining about facing 15k+ accounts...
    I'd barely say so many. There have been a few that have come to the Forum, sure.
    If there's one thing I've learned over the years online, it's that someone will always have a complaint.
    Also, the road to Plat is not fake.
    Seeing how a difficult time they have after they reach Plat is fake... Is not in the spirit of competition... The spirit of competition is competing against the odds, not nerfing your way so you can collect rewards...
    Okay. Let's have it your way.
    Make it random in Bronze 3. See how long people keep playing it.
    You can't include lower Players in a game mode and tell them they just have to deal with being slaughtered at the onset.
    I don't care what your justification is. That's not a fair start.
    Perfect, give them their own BGs with much lesser rewards.
    They already get lesser rewards, because they get easier matches. It's a compromise to allow for more players to play the game mode, which is also needed to support the game mode. It isn't perfect, it is what we have. Let it be.

    Tanking isn't ideal, but it is more of a function of this season's milestone rewards shift. That itself shows what even higher accounts value more. We had 8 seasons of the same people crying that they couldn't progress fast enough in VT. Now the same ones are giving up on progress because of the rewards change. The behaviour this season is sufficient proof that no one cares about fairness of competitions.
  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★
    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    There's nothing rational about faking a spot to take advantage of weaker Players and mess the system up, just because they're afraid of taking their Losses like everyone else.

    Their road to Plat is fake...

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Smaller Accounts are a part of the competition, whether you agree with it or not. That ship has sailed.
    As they are there, it's not reasonable to bash them around Bronze every Season and tell them "Tough!".

    Its not fair that I am sweating matches between 17-18k Prestiege all the way to Plat either while others are limited to fight Conqueros, UC and Cav...
    You said it yourself.. you are in Diamond... Had trouble other seasons.. this has been strange match ups... I honestly don't know if you would have made it out of Plat with a 13k prestiege roster... And I am not poking, I am seriously not doing that... But if people didn't send smaller accounts it might have been tough for a lot of accounts to even reach Diamond.. specially in this season that engages the largest pool of people...
    I'm a couple Wins away from the GC. I earned it with my share of Losses, but I'm not just coming up against 13k Prestige opponents either. Some lower, some higher, been beaten by lower, beaten Players higher than me....it's really varied to be honest.
    I am not questioning if you earned it not...
    Truth is farmers have sent a ton of accounts into Diamond or even GC...so u might have benefitted from this issue as well.. I dont see you opening a ticket asking to return the rewards from advancing from beating a few smaller accounts...once again not poking at you... Facing bigger accounts is a given for any other season.. smaller in diamond not so much...
    I've experienced maybe 2 Forfeits that had larger Accounts. Given the option, I'd take them back. No question. I can wait.
    Im not talking about people forfeiting to you.. i'm talking about the wins you had against lower accounts... They wouldnt have been there in the first place unless some people send them up...
    I think you'll find they're better than you think they are.
    Then why are there so many 10k-12k accounts complaining about facing 15k+ accounts...
    I'd barely say so many. There have been a few that have come to the Forum, sure.
    If there's one thing I've learned over the years online, it's that someone will always have a complaint.
    Also, the road to Plat is not fake.
    Seeing how a difficult time they have after they reach Plat is fake... Is not in the spirit of competition... The spirit of competition is competing against the odds, not nerfing your way so you can collect rewards...
    Okay. Let's have it your way.
    Make it random in Bronze 3. See how long people keep playing it.
    You can't include lower Players in a game mode and tell them they just have to deal with being slaughtered at the onset.
    I don't care what your justification is. That's not a fair start.
    Perfect, give them their own BGs with much lesser rewards.
    They already get lesser rewards, because they get easier matches. It's a compromise to allow for more players to play the game mode, which is also needed to support the game mode. It isn't perfect, it is what we have. Let it be.

    Tanking isn't ideal, but it is more of a function of this season's milestone rewards shift. That itself shows what even higher accounts value more. We had 8 seasons of the same people crying that they couldn't progress fast enough in VT. Now the same ones are giving up on progress because of the rewards change. The behaviour this season is sufficient proof that no one cares about fairness of competitions.
    No, it actually exposes the bad design of BGs having 4 (now 5 for this season) progression levels playing in the same field...
    How many match winning points do you think a Conq/UC/Cav is gonna be able to score at Plat after the matchmaking protection is lifted?... Specially with a lot more players that didn't care about BGs playing for rewards.
  • StatureStature Member Posts: 469 ★★★
    Coppin said:

    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    There's nothing rational about faking a spot to take advantage of weaker Players and mess the system up, just because they're afraid of taking their Losses like everyone else.

    Their road to Plat is fake...

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Smaller Accounts are a part of the competition, whether you agree with it or not. That ship has sailed.
    As they are there, it's not reasonable to bash them around Bronze every Season and tell them "Tough!".

    Its not fair that I am sweating matches between 17-18k Prestiege all the way to Plat either while others are limited to fight Conqueros, UC and Cav...
    You said it yourself.. you are in Diamond... Had trouble other seasons.. this has been strange match ups... I honestly don't know if you would have made it out of Plat with a 13k prestiege roster... And I am not poking, I am seriously not doing that... But if people didn't send smaller accounts it might have been tough for a lot of accounts to even reach Diamond.. specially in this season that engages the largest pool of people...
    I'm a couple Wins away from the GC. I earned it with my share of Losses, but I'm not just coming up against 13k Prestige opponents either. Some lower, some higher, been beaten by lower, beaten Players higher than me....it's really varied to be honest.
    I am not questioning if you earned it not...
    Truth is farmers have sent a ton of accounts into Diamond or even GC...so u might have benefitted from this issue as well.. I dont see you opening a ticket asking to return the rewards from advancing from beating a few smaller accounts...once again not poking at you... Facing bigger accounts is a given for any other season.. smaller in diamond not so much...
    I've experienced maybe 2 Forfeits that had larger Accounts. Given the option, I'd take them back. No question. I can wait.
    Im not talking about people forfeiting to you.. i'm talking about the wins you had against lower accounts... They wouldnt have been there in the first place unless some people send them up...
    I think you'll find they're better than you think they are.
    Then why are there so many 10k-12k accounts complaining about facing 15k+ accounts...
    I'd barely say so many. There have been a few that have come to the Forum, sure.
    If there's one thing I've learned over the years online, it's that someone will always have a complaint.
    Also, the road to Plat is not fake.
    Seeing how a difficult time they have after they reach Plat is fake... Is not in the spirit of competition... The spirit of competition is competing against the odds, not nerfing your way so you can collect rewards...
    Okay. Let's have it your way.
    Make it random in Bronze 3. See how long people keep playing it.
    You can't include lower Players in a game mode and tell them they just have to deal with being slaughtered at the onset.
    I don't care what your justification is. That's not a fair start.
    Perfect, give them their own BGs with much lesser rewards.
    They already get lesser rewards, because they get easier matches. It's a compromise to allow for more players to play the game mode, which is also needed to support the game mode. It isn't perfect, it is what we have. Let it be.

    Tanking isn't ideal, but it is more of a function of this season's milestone rewards shift. That itself shows what even higher accounts value more. We had 8 seasons of the same people crying that they couldn't progress fast enough in VT. Now the same ones are giving up on progress because of the rewards change. The behaviour this season is sufficient proof that no one cares about fairness of competitions.
    No, it actually exposes the bad design of BGs having 4 (now 5 for this season) progression levels playing in the same field...
    How many match winning points do you think a Conq/UC/Cav is gonna be able to score at Plat after the matchmaking protection is lifted?... Specially with a lot more players that didn't care about BGs playing for rewards.
    BG needs a critical mass of players to make the mode viable. It is likely that there aren't enough players in the top 2 progression levels to meet this requirement. What would you do, scrap the entire mode itself? There are always trade-offs involved, reasonable decisions have to taken till date.
  • Ironman3000Ironman3000 Member Posts: 1,955 ★★★★★
    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    There's nothing rational about faking a spot to take advantage of weaker Players and mess the system up, just because they're afraid of taking their Losses like everyone else.

    Their road to Plat is fake...

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Smaller Accounts are a part of the competition, whether you agree with it or not. That ship has sailed.
    As they are there, it's not reasonable to bash them around Bronze every Season and tell them "Tough!".

    Its not fair that I am sweating matches between 17-18k Prestiege all the way to Plat either while others are limited to fight Conqueros, UC and Cav...
    You said it yourself.. you are in Diamond... Had trouble other seasons.. this has been strange match ups... I honestly don't know if you would have made it out of Plat with a 13k prestiege roster... And I am not poking, I am seriously not doing that... But if people didn't send smaller accounts it might have been tough for a lot of accounts to even reach Diamond.. specially in this season that engages the largest pool of people...
    I'm a couple Wins away from the GC. I earned it with my share of Losses, but I'm not just coming up against 13k Prestige opponents either. Some lower, some higher, been beaten by lower, beaten Players higher than me....it's really varied to be honest.
    I am not questioning if you earned it not...
    Truth is farmers have sent a ton of accounts into Diamond or even GC...so u might have benefitted from this issue as well.. I dont see you opening a ticket asking to return the rewards from advancing from beating a few smaller accounts...once again not poking at you... Facing bigger accounts is a given for any other season.. smaller in diamond not so much...
    I've experienced maybe 2 Forfeits that had larger Accounts. Given the option, I'd take them back. No question. I can wait.
    Im not talking about people forfeiting to you.. i'm talking about the wins you had against lower accounts... They wouldnt have been there in the first place unless some people send them up...
    I think you'll find they're better than you think they are.
    Then why are there so many 10k-12k accounts complaining about facing 15k+ accounts...
    I'd barely say so many. There have been a few that have come to the Forum, sure.
    If there's one thing I've learned over the years online, it's that someone will always have a complaint.
    Also, the road to Plat is not fake.
    Seeing how a difficult time they have after they reach Plat is fake... Is not in the spirit of competition... The spirit of competition is competing against the odds, not nerfing your way so you can collect rewards...
    Okay. Let's have it your way.
    Make it random in Bronze 3. See how long people keep playing it.
    You can't include lower Players in a game mode and tell them they just have to deal with being slaughtered at the onset.
    I don't care what your justification is. That's not a fair start.
    Perfect, give them their own BGs with much lesser rewards.
    They already get lesser rewards, because they get easier matches. It's a compromise to allow for more players to play the game mode, which is also needed to support the game mode. It isn't perfect, it is what we have. Let it be.

    Tanking isn't ideal, but it is more of a function of this season's milestone rewards shift. That itself shows what even higher accounts value more. We had 8 seasons of the same people crying that they couldn't progress fast enough in VT. Now the same ones are giving up on progress because of the rewards change. The behaviour this season is sufficient proof that no one cares about fairness of competitions.
    No, it actually exposes the bad design of BGs having 4 (now 5 for this season) progression levels playing in the same field...
    How many match winning points do you think a Conq/UC/Cav is gonna be able to score at Plat after the matchmaking protection is lifted?... Specially with a lot more players that didn't care about BGs playing for rewards.
    BG needs a critical mass of players to make the mode viable. It is likely that there aren't enough players in the top 2 progression levels to meet this requirement. What would you do, scrap the entire mode itself? There are always trade-offs involved, reasonable decisions have to taken till date.
    If huge groups of players never play each other then it doesn't really matter. They could split BGs into Cav and below and TB and above and it wouldn't affect most players.
  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★
    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    There's nothing rational about faking a spot to take advantage of weaker Players and mess the system up, just because they're afraid of taking their Losses like everyone else.

    Their road to Plat is fake...

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Smaller Accounts are a part of the competition, whether you agree with it or not. That ship has sailed.
    As they are there, it's not reasonable to bash them around Bronze every Season and tell them "Tough!".

    Its not fair that I am sweating matches between 17-18k Prestiege all the way to Plat either while others are limited to fight Conqueros, UC and Cav...
    You said it yourself.. you are in Diamond... Had trouble other seasons.. this has been strange match ups... I honestly don't know if you would have made it out of Plat with a 13k prestiege roster... And I am not poking, I am seriously not doing that... But if people didn't send smaller accounts it might have been tough for a lot of accounts to even reach Diamond.. specially in this season that engages the largest pool of people...
    I'm a couple Wins away from the GC. I earned it with my share of Losses, but I'm not just coming up against 13k Prestige opponents either. Some lower, some higher, been beaten by lower, beaten Players higher than me....it's really varied to be honest.
    I am not questioning if you earned it not...
    Truth is farmers have sent a ton of accounts into Diamond or even GC...so u might have benefitted from this issue as well.. I dont see you opening a ticket asking to return the rewards from advancing from beating a few smaller accounts...once again not poking at you... Facing bigger accounts is a given for any other season.. smaller in diamond not so much...
    I've experienced maybe 2 Forfeits that had larger Accounts. Given the option, I'd take them back. No question. I can wait.
    Im not talking about people forfeiting to you.. i'm talking about the wins you had against lower accounts... They wouldnt have been there in the first place unless some people send them up...
    I think you'll find they're better than you think they are.
    Then why are there so many 10k-12k accounts complaining about facing 15k+ accounts...
    I'd barely say so many. There have been a few that have come to the Forum, sure.
    If there's one thing I've learned over the years online, it's that someone will always have a complaint.
    Also, the road to Plat is not fake.
    Seeing how a difficult time they have after they reach Plat is fake... Is not in the spirit of competition... The spirit of competition is competing against the odds, not nerfing your way so you can collect rewards...
    Okay. Let's have it your way.
    Make it random in Bronze 3. See how long people keep playing it.
    You can't include lower Players in a game mode and tell them they just have to deal with being slaughtered at the onset.
    I don't care what your justification is. That's not a fair start.
    Perfect, give them their own BGs with much lesser rewards.
    They already get lesser rewards, because they get easier matches. It's a compromise to allow for more players to play the game mode, which is also needed to support the game mode. It isn't perfect, it is what we have. Let it be.

    Tanking isn't ideal, but it is more of a function of this season's milestone rewards shift. That itself shows what even higher accounts value more. We had 8 seasons of the same people crying that they couldn't progress fast enough in VT. Now the same ones are giving up on progress because of the rewards change. The behaviour this season is sufficient proof that no one cares about fairness of competitions.
    No, it actually exposes the bad design of BGs having 4 (now 5 for this season) progression levels playing in the same field...
    How many match winning points do you think a Conq/UC/Cav is gonna be able to score at Plat after the matchmaking protection is lifted?... Specially with a lot more players that didn't care about BGs playing for rewards.
    BG needs a critical mass of players to make the mode viable. It is likely that there aren't enough players in the top 2 progression levels to meet this requirement. What would you do, scrap the entire mode itself? There are always trade-offs involved, reasonable decisions have to taken till date.
    Completely missing out the point...
    Lower progression levels are pretty much given a hand out up to Plat... Stringing wins to move up is pretty near impossible... On this season they will have a horrible time to hit the 400k solo mark.
    I don't agree with the mass of players to make the mode viable... If this was true TB and Paragons wouldn't be able to find matches from Bronce to Plat and in GC, specially since UC/Cav are out of the matching pool..
  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★

    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    There's nothing rational about faking a spot to take advantage of weaker Players and mess the system up, just because they're afraid of taking their Losses like everyone else.

    Their road to Plat is fake...

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Smaller Accounts are a part of the competition, whether you agree with it or not. That ship has sailed.
    As they are there, it's not reasonable to bash them around Bronze every Season and tell them "Tough!".

    Its not fair that I am sweating matches between 17-18k Prestiege all the way to Plat either while others are limited to fight Conqueros, UC and Cav...
    You said it yourself.. you are in Diamond... Had trouble other seasons.. this has been strange match ups... I honestly don't know if you would have made it out of Plat with a 13k prestiege roster... And I am not poking, I am seriously not doing that... But if people didn't send smaller accounts it might have been tough for a lot of accounts to even reach Diamond.. specially in this season that engages the largest pool of people...
    I'm a couple Wins away from the GC. I earned it with my share of Losses, but I'm not just coming up against 13k Prestige opponents either. Some lower, some higher, been beaten by lower, beaten Players higher than me....it's really varied to be honest.
    I am not questioning if you earned it not...
    Truth is farmers have sent a ton of accounts into Diamond or even GC...so u might have benefitted from this issue as well.. I dont see you opening a ticket asking to return the rewards from advancing from beating a few smaller accounts...once again not poking at you... Facing bigger accounts is a given for any other season.. smaller in diamond not so much...
    I've experienced maybe 2 Forfeits that had larger Accounts. Given the option, I'd take them back. No question. I can wait.
    Im not talking about people forfeiting to you.. i'm talking about the wins you had against lower accounts... They wouldnt have been there in the first place unless some people send them up...
    I think you'll find they're better than you think they are.
    Then why are there so many 10k-12k accounts complaining about facing 15k+ accounts...
    I'd barely say so many. There have been a few that have come to the Forum, sure.
    If there's one thing I've learned over the years online, it's that someone will always have a complaint.
    Also, the road to Plat is not fake.
    Seeing how a difficult time they have after they reach Plat is fake... Is not in the spirit of competition... The spirit of competition is competing against the odds, not nerfing your way so you can collect rewards...
    Okay. Let's have it your way.
    Make it random in Bronze 3. See how long people keep playing it.
    You can't include lower Players in a game mode and tell them they just have to deal with being slaughtered at the onset.
    I don't care what your justification is. That's not a fair start.
    Perfect, give them their own BGs with much lesser rewards.
    They already get lesser rewards, because they get easier matches. It's a compromise to allow for more players to play the game mode, which is also needed to support the game mode. It isn't perfect, it is what we have. Let it be.

    Tanking isn't ideal, but it is more of a function of this season's milestone rewards shift. That itself shows what even higher accounts value more. We had 8 seasons of the same people crying that they couldn't progress fast enough in VT. Now the same ones are giving up on progress because of the rewards change. The behaviour this season is sufficient proof that no one cares about fairness of competitions.
    No, it actually exposes the bad design of BGs having 4 (now 5 for this season) progression levels playing in the same field...
    How many match winning points do you think a Conq/UC/Cav is gonna be able to score at Plat after the matchmaking protection is lifted?... Specially with a lot more players that didn't care about BGs playing for rewards.
    BG needs a critical mass of players to make the mode viable. It is likely that there aren't enough players in the top 2 progression levels to meet this requirement. What would you do, scrap the entire mode itself? There are always trade-offs involved, reasonable decisions have to taken till date.
    If huge groups of players never play each other then it doesn't really matter. They could split BGs into Cav and below and TB and above and it wouldn't affect most players.
    Its funny, there isnt enough players to match up... Yet all the way to Plat I played Paragons only... Few Cavs in Plat and then back to Paragons in Diamond.. but the mass of players to match up must be the issue.
  • StatureStature Member Posts: 469 ★★★
    Coppin said:

    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    There's nothing rational about faking a spot to take advantage of weaker Players and mess the system up, just because they're afraid of taking their Losses like everyone else.

    Their road to Plat is fake...

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Smaller Accounts are a part of the competition, whether you agree with it or not. That ship has sailed.
    As they are there, it's not reasonable to bash them around Bronze every Season and tell them "Tough!".

    Its not fair that I am sweating matches between 17-18k Prestiege all the way to Plat either while others are limited to fight Conqueros, UC and Cav...
    You said it yourself.. you are in Diamond... Had trouble other seasons.. this has been strange match ups... I honestly don't know if you would have made it out of Plat with a 13k prestiege roster... And I am not poking, I am seriously not doing that... But if people didn't send smaller accounts it might have been tough for a lot of accounts to even reach Diamond.. specially in this season that engages the largest pool of people...
    I'm a couple Wins away from the GC. I earned it with my share of Losses, but I'm not just coming up against 13k Prestige opponents either. Some lower, some higher, been beaten by lower, beaten Players higher than me....it's really varied to be honest.
    I am not questioning if you earned it not...
    Truth is farmers have sent a ton of accounts into Diamond or even GC...so u might have benefitted from this issue as well.. I dont see you opening a ticket asking to return the rewards from advancing from beating a few smaller accounts...once again not poking at you... Facing bigger accounts is a given for any other season.. smaller in diamond not so much...
    I've experienced maybe 2 Forfeits that had larger Accounts. Given the option, I'd take them back. No question. I can wait.
    Im not talking about people forfeiting to you.. i'm talking about the wins you had against lower accounts... They wouldnt have been there in the first place unless some people send them up...
    I think you'll find they're better than you think they are.
    Then why are there so many 10k-12k accounts complaining about facing 15k+ accounts...
    I'd barely say so many. There have been a few that have come to the Forum, sure.
    If there's one thing I've learned over the years online, it's that someone will always have a complaint.
    Also, the road to Plat is not fake.
    Seeing how a difficult time they have after they reach Plat is fake... Is not in the spirit of competition... The spirit of competition is competing against the odds, not nerfing your way so you can collect rewards...
    Okay. Let's have it your way.
    Make it random in Bronze 3. See how long people keep playing it.
    You can't include lower Players in a game mode and tell them they just have to deal with being slaughtered at the onset.
    I don't care what your justification is. That's not a fair start.
    Perfect, give them their own BGs with much lesser rewards.
    They already get lesser rewards, because they get easier matches. It's a compromise to allow for more players to play the game mode, which is also needed to support the game mode. It isn't perfect, it is what we have. Let it be.

    Tanking isn't ideal, but it is more of a function of this season's milestone rewards shift. That itself shows what even higher accounts value more. We had 8 seasons of the same people crying that they couldn't progress fast enough in VT. Now the same ones are giving up on progress because of the rewards change. The behaviour this season is sufficient proof that no one cares about fairness of competitions.
    No, it actually exposes the bad design of BGs having 4 (now 5 for this season) progression levels playing in the same field...
    How many match winning points do you think a Conq/UC/Cav is gonna be able to score at Plat after the matchmaking protection is lifted?... Specially with a lot more players that didn't care about BGs playing for rewards.
    BG needs a critical mass of players to make the mode viable. It is likely that there aren't enough players in the top 2 progression levels to meet this requirement. What would you do, scrap the entire mode itself? There are always trade-offs involved, reasonable decisions have to taken till date.
    If huge groups of players never play each other then it doesn't really matter. They could split BGs into Cav and below and TB and above and it wouldn't affect most players.
    Its funny, there isnt enough players to match up... Yet all the way to Plat I played Paragons only... Few Cavs in Plat and then back to Paragons in Diamond.. but the mass of players to match up must be the issue.
    Anecdotal evidence is not the same as data. Matchmaking is not by progression levels, but by roster strength. Your roster rating might be high enough that you don't face anyone but Paragons. Mid/Early Paragons face TBs, TBs face Cavs and Paragons, Cavs face UCs and TBs and some Paragons, depends on where on the curve those rosters are. You take off one part of the pool, it will eventually impact matchmaking and progress further for everyone.
  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★
    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    There's nothing rational about faking a spot to take advantage of weaker Players and mess the system up, just because they're afraid of taking their Losses like everyone else.

    Their road to Plat is fake...

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Smaller Accounts are a part of the competition, whether you agree with it or not. That ship has sailed.
    As they are there, it's not reasonable to bash them around Bronze every Season and tell them "Tough!".

    Its not fair that I am sweating matches between 17-18k Prestiege all the way to Plat either while others are limited to fight Conqueros, UC and Cav...
    You said it yourself.. you are in Diamond... Had trouble other seasons.. this has been strange match ups... I honestly don't know if you would have made it out of Plat with a 13k prestiege roster... And I am not poking, I am seriously not doing that... But if people didn't send smaller accounts it might have been tough for a lot of accounts to even reach Diamond.. specially in this season that engages the largest pool of people...
    I'm a couple Wins away from the GC. I earned it with my share of Losses, but I'm not just coming up against 13k Prestige opponents either. Some lower, some higher, been beaten by lower, beaten Players higher than me....it's really varied to be honest.
    I am not questioning if you earned it not...
    Truth is farmers have sent a ton of accounts into Diamond or even GC...so u might have benefitted from this issue as well.. I dont see you opening a ticket asking to return the rewards from advancing from beating a few smaller accounts...once again not poking at you... Facing bigger accounts is a given for any other season.. smaller in diamond not so much...
    I've experienced maybe 2 Forfeits that had larger Accounts. Given the option, I'd take them back. No question. I can wait.
    Im not talking about people forfeiting to you.. i'm talking about the wins you had against lower accounts... They wouldnt have been there in the first place unless some people send them up...
    I think you'll find they're better than you think they are.
    Then why are there so many 10k-12k accounts complaining about facing 15k+ accounts...
    I'd barely say so many. There have been a few that have come to the Forum, sure.
    If there's one thing I've learned over the years online, it's that someone will always have a complaint.
    Also, the road to Plat is not fake.
    Seeing how a difficult time they have after they reach Plat is fake... Is not in the spirit of competition... The spirit of competition is competing against the odds, not nerfing your way so you can collect rewards...
    Okay. Let's have it your way.
    Make it random in Bronze 3. See how long people keep playing it.
    You can't include lower Players in a game mode and tell them they just have to deal with being slaughtered at the onset.
    I don't care what your justification is. That's not a fair start.
    Perfect, give them their own BGs with much lesser rewards.
    They already get lesser rewards, because they get easier matches. It's a compromise to allow for more players to play the game mode, which is also needed to support the game mode. It isn't perfect, it is what we have. Let it be.

    Tanking isn't ideal, but it is more of a function of this season's milestone rewards shift. That itself shows what even higher accounts value more. We had 8 seasons of the same people crying that they couldn't progress fast enough in VT. Now the same ones are giving up on progress because of the rewards change. The behaviour this season is sufficient proof that no one cares about fairness of competitions.
    No, it actually exposes the bad design of BGs having 4 (now 5 for this season) progression levels playing in the same field...
    How many match winning points do you think a Conq/UC/Cav is gonna be able to score at Plat after the matchmaking protection is lifted?... Specially with a lot more players that didn't care about BGs playing for rewards.
    BG needs a critical mass of players to make the mode viable. It is likely that there aren't enough players in the top 2 progression levels to meet this requirement. What would you do, scrap the entire mode itself? There are always trade-offs involved, reasonable decisions have to taken till date.
    If huge groups of players never play each other then it doesn't really matter. They could split BGs into Cav and below and TB and above and it wouldn't affect most players.
    Its funny, there isnt enough players to match up... Yet all the way to Plat I played Paragons only... Few Cavs in Plat and then back to Paragons in Diamond.. but the mass of players to match up must be the issue.
    Anecdotal evidence is not the same as data. Matchmaking is not by progression levels, but by roster strength. Your roster rating might be high enough that you don't face anyone but Paragons. Mid/Early Paragons face TBs, TBs face Cavs and Paragons, Cavs face UCs and TBs and some Paragons, depends on where on the curve those rosters are. You take off one part of the pool, it will eventually impact matchmaking and progress further for everyone.
    Anecdotal for 8 seasons?...
    Also it wouldn't explain the matchmaking shelter up to Platinum where it becomes Anyone vs Anyone...that part of the pool is already taken out at the beginning
  • StatureStature Member Posts: 469 ★★★
    Coppin said:

    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    There's nothing rational about faking a spot to take advantage of weaker Players and mess the system up, just because they're afraid of taking their Losses like everyone else.

    Their road to Plat is fake...

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Smaller Accounts are a part of the competition, whether you agree with it or not. That ship has sailed.
    As they are there, it's not reasonable to bash them around Bronze every Season and tell them "Tough!".

    Its not fair that I am sweating matches between 17-18k Prestiege all the way to Plat either while others are limited to fight Conqueros, UC and Cav...
    You said it yourself.. you are in Diamond... Had trouble other seasons.. this has been strange match ups... I honestly don't know if you would have made it out of Plat with a 13k prestiege roster... And I am not poking, I am seriously not doing that... But if people didn't send smaller accounts it might have been tough for a lot of accounts to even reach Diamond.. specially in this season that engages the largest pool of people...
    I'm a couple Wins away from the GC. I earned it with my share of Losses, but I'm not just coming up against 13k Prestige opponents either. Some lower, some higher, been beaten by lower, beaten Players higher than me....it's really varied to be honest.
    I am not questioning if you earned it not...
    Truth is farmers have sent a ton of accounts into Diamond or even GC...so u might have benefitted from this issue as well.. I dont see you opening a ticket asking to return the rewards from advancing from beating a few smaller accounts...once again not poking at you... Facing bigger accounts is a given for any other season.. smaller in diamond not so much...
    I've experienced maybe 2 Forfeits that had larger Accounts. Given the option, I'd take them back. No question. I can wait.
    Im not talking about people forfeiting to you.. i'm talking about the wins you had against lower accounts... They wouldnt have been there in the first place unless some people send them up...
    I think you'll find they're better than you think they are.
    Then why are there so many 10k-12k accounts complaining about facing 15k+ accounts...
    I'd barely say so many. There have been a few that have come to the Forum, sure.
    If there's one thing I've learned over the years online, it's that someone will always have a complaint.
    Also, the road to Plat is not fake.
    Seeing how a difficult time they have after they reach Plat is fake... Is not in the spirit of competition... The spirit of competition is competing against the odds, not nerfing your way so you can collect rewards...
    Okay. Let's have it your way.
    Make it random in Bronze 3. See how long people keep playing it.
    You can't include lower Players in a game mode and tell them they just have to deal with being slaughtered at the onset.
    I don't care what your justification is. That's not a fair start.
    Perfect, give them their own BGs with much lesser rewards.
    They already get lesser rewards, because they get easier matches. It's a compromise to allow for more players to play the game mode, which is also needed to support the game mode. It isn't perfect, it is what we have. Let it be.

    Tanking isn't ideal, but it is more of a function of this season's milestone rewards shift. That itself shows what even higher accounts value more. We had 8 seasons of the same people crying that they couldn't progress fast enough in VT. Now the same ones are giving up on progress because of the rewards change. The behaviour this season is sufficient proof that no one cares about fairness of competitions.
    No, it actually exposes the bad design of BGs having 4 (now 5 for this season) progression levels playing in the same field...
    How many match winning points do you think a Conq/UC/Cav is gonna be able to score at Plat after the matchmaking protection is lifted?... Specially with a lot more players that didn't care about BGs playing for rewards.
    BG needs a critical mass of players to make the mode viable. It is likely that there aren't enough players in the top 2 progression levels to meet this requirement. What would you do, scrap the entire mode itself? There are always trade-offs involved, reasonable decisions have to taken till date.
    If huge groups of players never play each other then it doesn't really matter. They could split BGs into Cav and below and TB and above and it wouldn't affect most players.
    Its funny, there isnt enough players to match up... Yet all the way to Plat I played Paragons only... Few Cavs in Plat and then back to Paragons in Diamond.. but the mass of players to match up must be the issue.
    Anecdotal evidence is not the same as data. Matchmaking is not by progression levels, but by roster strength. Your roster rating might be high enough that you don't face anyone but Paragons. Mid/Early Paragons face TBs, TBs face Cavs and Paragons, Cavs face UCs and TBs and some Paragons, depends on where on the curve those rosters are. You take off one part of the pool, it will eventually impact matchmaking and progress further for everyone.
    Anecdotal for 8 seasons?...
    Also it wouldn't explain the matchmaking shelter up to Platinum where it becomes Anyone vs Anyone...that part of the pool is already taken out at the beginning
    It's a continuum, not discrete pools. Everyone is matched within a certain range of what is determined to be their strength rating. You are facing some people stronger than you and some weaker (as seen by the system). The stronger ones are doing the same at their level and so are the weaker ones. Just because you don't get to play them, doesn't mean that they are taken out of the pool.
  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★
    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    There's nothing rational about faking a spot to take advantage of weaker Players and mess the system up, just because they're afraid of taking their Losses like everyone else.

    Their road to Plat is fake...

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Smaller Accounts are a part of the competition, whether you agree with it or not. That ship has sailed.
    As they are there, it's not reasonable to bash them around Bronze every Season and tell them "Tough!".

    Its not fair that I am sweating matches between 17-18k Prestiege all the way to Plat either while others are limited to fight Conqueros, UC and Cav...
    You said it yourself.. you are in Diamond... Had trouble other seasons.. this has been strange match ups... I honestly don't know if you would have made it out of Plat with a 13k prestiege roster... And I am not poking, I am seriously not doing that... But if people didn't send smaller accounts it might have been tough for a lot of accounts to even reach Diamond.. specially in this season that engages the largest pool of people...
    I'm a couple Wins away from the GC. I earned it with my share of Losses, but I'm not just coming up against 13k Prestige opponents either. Some lower, some higher, been beaten by lower, beaten Players higher than me....it's really varied to be honest.
    I am not questioning if you earned it not...
    Truth is farmers have sent a ton of accounts into Diamond or even GC...so u might have benefitted from this issue as well.. I dont see you opening a ticket asking to return the rewards from advancing from beating a few smaller accounts...once again not poking at you... Facing bigger accounts is a given for any other season.. smaller in diamond not so much...
    I've experienced maybe 2 Forfeits that had larger Accounts. Given the option, I'd take them back. No question. I can wait.
    Im not talking about people forfeiting to you.. i'm talking about the wins you had against lower accounts... They wouldnt have been there in the first place unless some people send them up...
    I think you'll find they're better than you think they are.
    Then why are there so many 10k-12k accounts complaining about facing 15k+ accounts...
    I'd barely say so many. There have been a few that have come to the Forum, sure.
    If there's one thing I've learned over the years online, it's that someone will always have a complaint.
    Also, the road to Plat is not fake.
    Seeing how a difficult time they have after they reach Plat is fake... Is not in the spirit of competition... The spirit of competition is competing against the odds, not nerfing your way so you can collect rewards...
    Okay. Let's have it your way.
    Make it random in Bronze 3. See how long people keep playing it.
    You can't include lower Players in a game mode and tell them they just have to deal with being slaughtered at the onset.
    I don't care what your justification is. That's not a fair start.
    Perfect, give them their own BGs with much lesser rewards.
    They already get lesser rewards, because they get easier matches. It's a compromise to allow for more players to play the game mode, which is also needed to support the game mode. It isn't perfect, it is what we have. Let it be.

    Tanking isn't ideal, but it is more of a function of this season's milestone rewards shift. That itself shows what even higher accounts value more. We had 8 seasons of the same people crying that they couldn't progress fast enough in VT. Now the same ones are giving up on progress because of the rewards change. The behaviour this season is sufficient proof that no one cares about fairness of competitions.
    No, it actually exposes the bad design of BGs having 4 (now 5 for this season) progression levels playing in the same field...
    How many match winning points do you think a Conq/UC/Cav is gonna be able to score at Plat after the matchmaking protection is lifted?... Specially with a lot more players that didn't care about BGs playing for rewards.
    BG needs a critical mass of players to make the mode viable. It is likely that there aren't enough players in the top 2 progression levels to meet this requirement. What would you do, scrap the entire mode itself? There are always trade-offs involved, reasonable decisions have to taken till date.
    If huge groups of players never play each other then it doesn't really matter. They could split BGs into Cav and below and TB and above and it wouldn't affect most players.
    Its funny, there isnt enough players to match up... Yet all the way to Plat I played Paragons only... Few Cavs in Plat and then back to Paragons in Diamond.. but the mass of players to match up must be the issue.
    Anecdotal evidence is not the same as data. Matchmaking is not by progression levels, but by roster strength. Your roster rating might be high enough that you don't face anyone but Paragons. Mid/Early Paragons face TBs, TBs face Cavs and Paragons, Cavs face UCs and TBs and some Paragons, depends on where on the curve those rosters are. You take off one part of the pool, it will eventually impact matchmaking and progress further for everyone.
    Anecdotal for 8 seasons?...
    Also it wouldn't explain the matchmaking shelter up to Platinum where it becomes Anyone vs Anyone...that part of the pool is already taken out at the beginning
    It's a continuum, not discrete pools. Everyone is matched within a certain range of what is determined to be their strength rating. You are facing some people stronger than you and some weaker (as seen by the system). The stronger ones are doing the same at their level and so are the weaker ones. Just because you don't get to play them, doesn't mean that they are taken out of the pool.
    If the ammount of players was an issue, putting a filter would make matters worse, its obviously not the problem
  • StatureStature Member Posts: 469 ★★★
    Coppin said:

    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    There's nothing rational about faking a spot to take advantage of weaker Players and mess the system up, just because they're afraid of taking their Losses like everyone else.

    Their road to Plat is fake...

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Smaller Accounts are a part of the competition, whether you agree with it or not. That ship has sailed.
    As they are there, it's not reasonable to bash them around Bronze every Season and tell them "Tough!".

    Its not fair that I am sweating matches between 17-18k Prestiege all the way to Plat either while others are limited to fight Conqueros, UC and Cav...
    You said it yourself.. you are in Diamond... Had trouble other seasons.. this has been strange match ups... I honestly don't know if you would have made it out of Plat with a 13k prestiege roster... And I am not poking, I am seriously not doing that... But if people didn't send smaller accounts it might have been tough for a lot of accounts to even reach Diamond.. specially in this season that engages the largest pool of people...
    I'm a couple Wins away from the GC. I earned it with my share of Losses, but I'm not just coming up against 13k Prestige opponents either. Some lower, some higher, been beaten by lower, beaten Players higher than me....it's really varied to be honest.
    I am not questioning if you earned it not...
    Truth is farmers have sent a ton of accounts into Diamond or even GC...so u might have benefitted from this issue as well.. I dont see you opening a ticket asking to return the rewards from advancing from beating a few smaller accounts...once again not poking at you... Facing bigger accounts is a given for any other season.. smaller in diamond not so much...
    I've experienced maybe 2 Forfeits that had larger Accounts. Given the option, I'd take them back. No question. I can wait.
    Im not talking about people forfeiting to you.. i'm talking about the wins you had against lower accounts... They wouldnt have been there in the first place unless some people send them up...
    I think you'll find they're better than you think they are.
    Then why are there so many 10k-12k accounts complaining about facing 15k+ accounts...
    I'd barely say so many. There have been a few that have come to the Forum, sure.
    If there's one thing I've learned over the years online, it's that someone will always have a complaint.
    Also, the road to Plat is not fake.
    Seeing how a difficult time they have after they reach Plat is fake... Is not in the spirit of competition... The spirit of competition is competing against the odds, not nerfing your way so you can collect rewards...
    Okay. Let's have it your way.
    Make it random in Bronze 3. See how long people keep playing it.
    You can't include lower Players in a game mode and tell them they just have to deal with being slaughtered at the onset.
    I don't care what your justification is. That's not a fair start.
    Perfect, give them their own BGs with much lesser rewards.
    They already get lesser rewards, because they get easier matches. It's a compromise to allow for more players to play the game mode, which is also needed to support the game mode. It isn't perfect, it is what we have. Let it be.

    Tanking isn't ideal, but it is more of a function of this season's milestone rewards shift. That itself shows what even higher accounts value more. We had 8 seasons of the same people crying that they couldn't progress fast enough in VT. Now the same ones are giving up on progress because of the rewards change. The behaviour this season is sufficient proof that no one cares about fairness of competitions.
    No, it actually exposes the bad design of BGs having 4 (now 5 for this season) progression levels playing in the same field...
    How many match winning points do you think a Conq/UC/Cav is gonna be able to score at Plat after the matchmaking protection is lifted?... Specially with a lot more players that didn't care about BGs playing for rewards.
    BG needs a critical mass of players to make the mode viable. It is likely that there aren't enough players in the top 2 progression levels to meet this requirement. What would you do, scrap the entire mode itself? There are always trade-offs involved, reasonable decisions have to taken till date.
    If huge groups of players never play each other then it doesn't really matter. They could split BGs into Cav and below and TB and above and it wouldn't affect most players.
    Its funny, there isnt enough players to match up... Yet all the way to Plat I played Paragons only... Few Cavs in Plat and then back to Paragons in Diamond.. but the mass of players to match up must be the issue.
    Anecdotal evidence is not the same as data. Matchmaking is not by progression levels, but by roster strength. Your roster rating might be high enough that you don't face anyone but Paragons. Mid/Early Paragons face TBs, TBs face Cavs and Paragons, Cavs face UCs and TBs and some Paragons, depends on where on the curve those rosters are. You take off one part of the pool, it will eventually impact matchmaking and progress further for everyone.
    Anecdotal for 8 seasons?...
    Also it wouldn't explain the matchmaking shelter up to Platinum where it becomes Anyone vs Anyone...that part of the pool is already taken out at the beginning
    It's a continuum, not discrete pools. Everyone is matched within a certain range of what is determined to be their strength rating. You are facing some people stronger than you and some weaker (as seen by the system). The stronger ones are doing the same at their level and so are the weaker ones. Just because you don't get to play them, doesn't mean that they are taken out of the pool.
    If the ammount of players was an issue, putting a filter would make matters worse, its obviously not the problem
    If the amount of players was not an issue, why is so much of the design around participation (multiple progression levels included, tokens for just doing matches, milestone rewards with points for just playing). If there were enough players at the top, this could have been easily positioned as another reason to push through story progression with lots of tokens and a shiny store at the end of it. Get TB and you can supercharge your progress. Didn't happen.
  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★
    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    There's nothing rational about faking a spot to take advantage of weaker Players and mess the system up, just because they're afraid of taking their Losses like everyone else.

    Their road to Plat is fake...

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Smaller Accounts are a part of the competition, whether you agree with it or not. That ship has sailed.
    As they are there, it's not reasonable to bash them around Bronze every Season and tell them "Tough!".

    Its not fair that I am sweating matches between 17-18k Prestiege all the way to Plat either while others are limited to fight Conqueros, UC and Cav...
    You said it yourself.. you are in Diamond... Had trouble other seasons.. this has been strange match ups... I honestly don't know if you would have made it out of Plat with a 13k prestiege roster... And I am not poking, I am seriously not doing that... But if people didn't send smaller accounts it might have been tough for a lot of accounts to even reach Diamond.. specially in this season that engages the largest pool of people...
    I'm a couple Wins away from the GC. I earned it with my share of Losses, but I'm not just coming up against 13k Prestige opponents either. Some lower, some higher, been beaten by lower, beaten Players higher than me....it's really varied to be honest.
    I am not questioning if you earned it not...
    Truth is farmers have sent a ton of accounts into Diamond or even GC...so u might have benefitted from this issue as well.. I dont see you opening a ticket asking to return the rewards from advancing from beating a few smaller accounts...once again not poking at you... Facing bigger accounts is a given for any other season.. smaller in diamond not so much...
    I've experienced maybe 2 Forfeits that had larger Accounts. Given the option, I'd take them back. No question. I can wait.
    Im not talking about people forfeiting to you.. i'm talking about the wins you had against lower accounts... They wouldnt have been there in the first place unless some people send them up...
    I think you'll find they're better than you think they are.
    Then why are there so many 10k-12k accounts complaining about facing 15k+ accounts...
    I'd barely say so many. There have been a few that have come to the Forum, sure.
    If there's one thing I've learned over the years online, it's that someone will always have a complaint.
    Also, the road to Plat is not fake.
    Seeing how a difficult time they have after they reach Plat is fake... Is not in the spirit of competition... The spirit of competition is competing against the odds, not nerfing your way so you can collect rewards...
    Okay. Let's have it your way.
    Make it random in Bronze 3. See how long people keep playing it.
    You can't include lower Players in a game mode and tell them they just have to deal with being slaughtered at the onset.
    I don't care what your justification is. That's not a fair start.
    Perfect, give them their own BGs with much lesser rewards.
    They already get lesser rewards, because they get easier matches. It's a compromise to allow for more players to play the game mode, which is also needed to support the game mode. It isn't perfect, it is what we have. Let it be.

    Tanking isn't ideal, but it is more of a function of this season's milestone rewards shift. That itself shows what even higher accounts value more. We had 8 seasons of the same people crying that they couldn't progress fast enough in VT. Now the same ones are giving up on progress because of the rewards change. The behaviour this season is sufficient proof that no one cares about fairness of competitions.
    No, it actually exposes the bad design of BGs having 4 (now 5 for this season) progression levels playing in the same field...
    How many match winning points do you think a Conq/UC/Cav is gonna be able to score at Plat after the matchmaking protection is lifted?... Specially with a lot more players that didn't care about BGs playing for rewards.
    BG needs a critical mass of players to make the mode viable. It is likely that there aren't enough players in the top 2 progression levels to meet this requirement. What would you do, scrap the entire mode itself? There are always trade-offs involved, reasonable decisions have to taken till date.
    If huge groups of players never play each other then it doesn't really matter. They could split BGs into Cav and below and TB and above and it wouldn't affect most players.
    Its funny, there isnt enough players to match up... Yet all the way to Plat I played Paragons only... Few Cavs in Plat and then back to Paragons in Diamond.. but the mass of players to match up must be the issue.
    Anecdotal evidence is not the same as data. Matchmaking is not by progression levels, but by roster strength. Your roster rating might be high enough that you don't face anyone but Paragons. Mid/Early Paragons face TBs, TBs face Cavs and Paragons, Cavs face UCs and TBs and some Paragons, depends on where on the curve those rosters are. You take off one part of the pool, it will eventually impact matchmaking and progress further for everyone.
    Anecdotal for 8 seasons?...
    Also it wouldn't explain the matchmaking shelter up to Platinum where it becomes Anyone vs Anyone...that part of the pool is already taken out at the beginning
    It's a continuum, not discrete pools. Everyone is matched within a certain range of what is determined to be their strength rating. You are facing some people stronger than you and some weaker (as seen by the system). The stronger ones are doing the same at their level and so are the weaker ones. Just because you don't get to play them, doesn't mean that they are taken out of the pool.
    If the ammount of players was an issue, putting a filter would make matters worse, its obviously not the problem
    If the amount of players was not an issue, why is so much of the design around participation (multiple progression levels included, tokens for just doing matches, milestone rewards with points for just playing). If there were enough players at the top, this could have been easily positioned as another reason to push through story progression with lots of tokens and a shiny store at the end of it. Get TB and you can supercharge your progress. Didn't happen.
    If it was intended why did they had to patch holes as they go?...
    Still dealing with match making problems?..Issues with sandbagging?...
    I repeat as I repeated numerous times.. expecting to have a PVP competition with 4 different progression levels is absurd...it was a bad design from the get go.. and the reason why it keeps going is for the negative feedback they would receive if they gate it... They could make a 2nd BG for UC/Cav with no GC but that would piss off ppl..
    Has nothing to do with the mass of players..
    Like u said ... Solo/ally milestones.. trophies.. tokens.. its all about rewards.. exclude lower progression from those rewards and the ammount of negative feedback would be overwhelming...
  • Ironman3000Ironman3000 Member Posts: 1,955 ★★★★★
    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    There's nothing rational about faking a spot to take advantage of weaker Players and mess the system up, just because they're afraid of taking their Losses like everyone else.

    Their road to Plat is fake...

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Smaller Accounts are a part of the competition, whether you agree with it or not. That ship has sailed.
    As they are there, it's not reasonable to bash them around Bronze every Season and tell them "Tough!".

    Its not fair that I am sweating matches between 17-18k Prestiege all the way to Plat either while others are limited to fight Conqueros, UC and Cav...
    You said it yourself.. you are in Diamond... Had trouble other seasons.. this has been strange match ups... I honestly don't know if you would have made it out of Plat with a 13k prestiege roster... And I am not poking, I am seriously not doing that... But if people didn't send smaller accounts it might have been tough for a lot of accounts to even reach Diamond.. specially in this season that engages the largest pool of people...
    I'm a couple Wins away from the GC. I earned it with my share of Losses, but I'm not just coming up against 13k Prestige opponents either. Some lower, some higher, been beaten by lower, beaten Players higher than me....it's really varied to be honest.
    I am not questioning if you earned it not...
    Truth is farmers have sent a ton of accounts into Diamond or even GC...so u might have benefitted from this issue as well.. I dont see you opening a ticket asking to return the rewards from advancing from beating a few smaller accounts...once again not poking at you... Facing bigger accounts is a given for any other season.. smaller in diamond not so much...
    I've experienced maybe 2 Forfeits that had larger Accounts. Given the option, I'd take them back. No question. I can wait.
    Im not talking about people forfeiting to you.. i'm talking about the wins you had against lower accounts... They wouldnt have been there in the first place unless some people send them up...
    I think you'll find they're better than you think they are.
    Then why are there so many 10k-12k accounts complaining about facing 15k+ accounts...
    I'd barely say so many. There have been a few that have come to the Forum, sure.
    If there's one thing I've learned over the years online, it's that someone will always have a complaint.
    Also, the road to Plat is not fake.
    Seeing how a difficult time they have after they reach Plat is fake... Is not in the spirit of competition... The spirit of competition is competing against the odds, not nerfing your way so you can collect rewards...
    Okay. Let's have it your way.
    Make it random in Bronze 3. See how long people keep playing it.
    You can't include lower Players in a game mode and tell them they just have to deal with being slaughtered at the onset.
    I don't care what your justification is. That's not a fair start.
    Perfect, give them their own BGs with much lesser rewards.
    They already get lesser rewards, because they get easier matches. It's a compromise to allow for more players to play the game mode, which is also needed to support the game mode. It isn't perfect, it is what we have. Let it be.

    Tanking isn't ideal, but it is more of a function of this season's milestone rewards shift. That itself shows what even higher accounts value more. We had 8 seasons of the same people crying that they couldn't progress fast enough in VT. Now the same ones are giving up on progress because of the rewards change. The behaviour this season is sufficient proof that no one cares about fairness of competitions.
    No, it actually exposes the bad design of BGs having 4 (now 5 for this season) progression levels playing in the same field...
    How many match winning points do you think a Conq/UC/Cav is gonna be able to score at Plat after the matchmaking protection is lifted?... Specially with a lot more players that didn't care about BGs playing for rewards.
    BG needs a critical mass of players to make the mode viable. It is likely that there aren't enough players in the top 2 progression levels to meet this requirement. What would you do, scrap the entire mode itself? There are always trade-offs involved, reasonable decisions have to taken till date.
    If huge groups of players never play each other then it doesn't really matter. They could split BGs into Cav and below and TB and above and it wouldn't affect most players.
    Its funny, there isnt enough players to match up... Yet all the way to Plat I played Paragons only... Few Cavs in Plat and then back to Paragons in Diamond.. but the mass of players to match up must be the issue.
    Anecdotal evidence is not the same as data. Matchmaking is not by progression levels, but by roster strength. Your roster rating might be high enough that you don't face anyone but Paragons. Mid/Early Paragons face TBs, TBs face Cavs and Paragons, Cavs face UCs and TBs and some Paragons, depends on where on the curve those rosters are. You take off one part of the pool, it will eventually impact matchmaking and progress further for everyone.
    Wrong.
  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★

    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    There's nothing rational about faking a spot to take advantage of weaker Players and mess the system up, just because they're afraid of taking their Losses like everyone else.

    Their road to Plat is fake...

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Smaller Accounts are a part of the competition, whether you agree with it or not. That ship has sailed.
    As they are there, it's not reasonable to bash them around Bronze every Season and tell them "Tough!".

    Its not fair that I am sweating matches between 17-18k Prestiege all the way to Plat either while others are limited to fight Conqueros, UC and Cav...
    You said it yourself.. you are in Diamond... Had trouble other seasons.. this has been strange match ups... I honestly don't know if you would have made it out of Plat with a 13k prestiege roster... And I am not poking, I am seriously not doing that... But if people didn't send smaller accounts it might have been tough for a lot of accounts to even reach Diamond.. specially in this season that engages the largest pool of people...
    I'm a couple Wins away from the GC. I earned it with my share of Losses, but I'm not just coming up against 13k Prestige opponents either. Some lower, some higher, been beaten by lower, beaten Players higher than me....it's really varied to be honest.
    I am not questioning if you earned it not...
    Truth is farmers have sent a ton of accounts into Diamond or even GC...so u might have benefitted from this issue as well.. I dont see you opening a ticket asking to return the rewards from advancing from beating a few smaller accounts...once again not poking at you... Facing bigger accounts is a given for any other season.. smaller in diamond not so much...
    I've experienced maybe 2 Forfeits that had larger Accounts. Given the option, I'd take them back. No question. I can wait.
    Im not talking about people forfeiting to you.. i'm talking about the wins you had against lower accounts... They wouldnt have been there in the first place unless some people send them up...
    I think you'll find they're better than you think they are.
    Then why are there so many 10k-12k accounts complaining about facing 15k+ accounts...
    I'd barely say so many. There have been a few that have come to the Forum, sure.
    If there's one thing I've learned over the years online, it's that someone will always have a complaint.
    Also, the road to Plat is not fake.
    Seeing how a difficult time they have after they reach Plat is fake... Is not in the spirit of competition... The spirit of competition is competing against the odds, not nerfing your way so you can collect rewards...
    Okay. Let's have it your way.
    Make it random in Bronze 3. See how long people keep playing it.
    You can't include lower Players in a game mode and tell them they just have to deal with being slaughtered at the onset.
    I don't care what your justification is. That's not a fair start.
    Perfect, give them their own BGs with much lesser rewards.
    They already get lesser rewards, because they get easier matches. It's a compromise to allow for more players to play the game mode, which is also needed to support the game mode. It isn't perfect, it is what we have. Let it be.

    Tanking isn't ideal, but it is more of a function of this season's milestone rewards shift. That itself shows what even higher accounts value more. We had 8 seasons of the same people crying that they couldn't progress fast enough in VT. Now the same ones are giving up on progress because of the rewards change. The behaviour this season is sufficient proof that no one cares about fairness of competitions.
    No, it actually exposes the bad design of BGs having 4 (now 5 for this season) progression levels playing in the same field...
    How many match winning points do you think a Conq/UC/Cav is gonna be able to score at Plat after the matchmaking protection is lifted?... Specially with a lot more players that didn't care about BGs playing for rewards.
    BG needs a critical mass of players to make the mode viable. It is likely that there aren't enough players in the top 2 progression levels to meet this requirement. What would you do, scrap the entire mode itself? There are always trade-offs involved, reasonable decisions have to taken till date.
    If huge groups of players never play each other then it doesn't really matter. They could split BGs into Cav and below and TB and above and it wouldn't affect most players.
    Its funny, there isnt enough players to match up... Yet all the way to Plat I played Paragons only... Few Cavs in Plat and then back to Paragons in Diamond.. but the mass of players to match up must be the issue.
    Anecdotal evidence is not the same as data. Matchmaking is not by progression levels, but by roster strength. Your roster rating might be high enough that you don't face anyone but Paragons. Mid/Early Paragons face TBs, TBs face Cavs and Paragons, Cavs face UCs and TBs and some Paragons, depends on where on the curve those rosters are. You take off one part of the pool, it will eventually impact matchmaking and progress further for everyone.
    Wrong.
    If the pool is 100 people and u filter them in a way that 40 can't face the other 60... Its worse for matchmaking; but i guess that concept is hard to understand...
    Also my experience is anecdotal but every example he lists is not.. interesting... I have never played against a TB or early Paragon until Plat.. but its anecdotal...
  • StatureStature Member Posts: 469 ★★★

    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    There's nothing rational about faking a spot to take advantage of weaker Players and mess the system up, just because they're afraid of taking their Losses like everyone else.

    Their road to Plat is fake...

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Coppin said:

    Smaller Accounts are a part of the competition, whether you agree with it or not. That ship has sailed.
    As they are there, it's not reasonable to bash them around Bronze every Season and tell them "Tough!".

    Its not fair that I am sweating matches between 17-18k Prestiege all the way to Plat either while others are limited to fight Conqueros, UC and Cav...
    You said it yourself.. you are in Diamond... Had trouble other seasons.. this has been strange match ups... I honestly don't know if you would have made it out of Plat with a 13k prestiege roster... And I am not poking, I am seriously not doing that... But if people didn't send smaller accounts it might have been tough for a lot of accounts to even reach Diamond.. specially in this season that engages the largest pool of people...
    I'm a couple Wins away from the GC. I earned it with my share of Losses, but I'm not just coming up against 13k Prestige opponents either. Some lower, some higher, been beaten by lower, beaten Players higher than me....it's really varied to be honest.
    I am not questioning if you earned it not...
    Truth is farmers have sent a ton of accounts into Diamond or even GC...so u might have benefitted from this issue as well.. I dont see you opening a ticket asking to return the rewards from advancing from beating a few smaller accounts...once again not poking at you... Facing bigger accounts is a given for any other season.. smaller in diamond not so much...
    I've experienced maybe 2 Forfeits that had larger Accounts. Given the option, I'd take them back. No question. I can wait.
    Im not talking about people forfeiting to you.. i'm talking about the wins you had against lower accounts... They wouldnt have been there in the first place unless some people send them up...
    I think you'll find they're better than you think they are.
    Then why are there so many 10k-12k accounts complaining about facing 15k+ accounts...
    I'd barely say so many. There have been a few that have come to the Forum, sure.
    If there's one thing I've learned over the years online, it's that someone will always have a complaint.
    Also, the road to Plat is not fake.
    Seeing how a difficult time they have after they reach Plat is fake... Is not in the spirit of competition... The spirit of competition is competing against the odds, not nerfing your way so you can collect rewards...
    Okay. Let's have it your way.
    Make it random in Bronze 3. See how long people keep playing it.
    You can't include lower Players in a game mode and tell them they just have to deal with being slaughtered at the onset.
    I don't care what your justification is. That's not a fair start.
    Perfect, give them their own BGs with much lesser rewards.
    They already get lesser rewards, because they get easier matches. It's a compromise to allow for more players to play the game mode, which is also needed to support the game mode. It isn't perfect, it is what we have. Let it be.

    Tanking isn't ideal, but it is more of a function of this season's milestone rewards shift. That itself shows what even higher accounts value more. We had 8 seasons of the same people crying that they couldn't progress fast enough in VT. Now the same ones are giving up on progress because of the rewards change. The behaviour this season is sufficient proof that no one cares about fairness of competitions.
    No, it actually exposes the bad design of BGs having 4 (now 5 for this season) progression levels playing in the same field...
    How many match winning points do you think a Conq/UC/Cav is gonna be able to score at Plat after the matchmaking protection is lifted?... Specially with a lot more players that didn't care about BGs playing for rewards.
    BG needs a critical mass of players to make the mode viable. It is likely that there aren't enough players in the top 2 progression levels to meet this requirement. What would you do, scrap the entire mode itself? There are always trade-offs involved, reasonable decisions have to taken till date.
    If huge groups of players never play each other then it doesn't really matter. They could split BGs into Cav and below and TB and above and it wouldn't affect most players.
    Its funny, there isnt enough players to match up... Yet all the way to Plat I played Paragons only... Few Cavs in Plat and then back to Paragons in Diamond.. but the mass of players to match up must be the issue.
    Anecdotal evidence is not the same as data. Matchmaking is not by progression levels, but by roster strength. Your roster rating might be high enough that you don't face anyone but Paragons. Mid/Early Paragons face TBs, TBs face Cavs and Paragons, Cavs face UCs and TBs and some Paragons, depends on where on the curve those rosters are. You take off one part of the pool, it will eventually impact matchmaking and progress further for everyone.
    Wrong.
    Thank you.
  • StatureStature Member Posts: 469 ★★★
    edited July 2023
    Coppin said:

    If it was intended why did they had to patch holes as they go?...
    Still dealing with match making problems?..Issues with sandbagging?...
    I repeat as I repeated numerous times.. expecting to have a PVP competition with 4 different progression levels is absurd...it was a bad design from the get go.. and the reason why it keeps going is for the negative feedback they would receive if they gate it... They could make a 2nd BG for UC/Cav with no GC but that would piss off ppl..
    Has nothing to do with the mass of players..
    Like u said ... Solo/ally milestones.. trophies.. tokens.. its all about rewards.. exclude lower progression from those rewards and the ammount of negative feedback would be overwhelming...

    Ok, have it your way. It was to include lower progression in the rewards. Whatever the reason, this is what we have. And it is a reasonable compromise. Why keep complaining about it.

    Any changes, will end up with corresponding offsets in rewards in some other mode. Or stagnation of rewards in this mode until other modes catch up. Unless you want BGs to end up like incursions, the current system is not bad.
  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★
    edited July 2023
    Stature said:

    Coppin said:

    If it was intended why did they had to patch holes as they go?...
    Still dealing with match making problems?..Issues with sandbagging?...
    I repeat as I repeated numerous times.. expecting to have a PVP competition with 4 different progression levels is absurd...it was a bad design from the get go.. and the reason why it keeps going is for the negative feedback they would receive if they gate it... They could make a 2nd BG for UC/Cav with no GC but that would piss off ppl..
    Has nothing to do with the mass of players..
    Like u said ... Solo/ally milestones.. trophies.. tokens.. its all about rewards.. exclude lower progression from those rewards and the ammount of negative feedback would be overwhelming...

    Ok, have it your way. It was to include lower progression in the rewards. Whatever the reason, this is what we have. And it is a reasonable compromise. Why keep complaining about it.

    Any changes, will end up with corresponding offsets in rewards in some other mode. Or stagnation of rewards in this mode until other modes catch up. Unless you want BGs to end up like incursions, the current system is not bad.
    And this is related to tanking matches how?...
    Comparing a competitive PVP mode with a piece of repetitive, boring and long content like Incursions... yeah I'm pretty sure its the same
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,654 Guardian
    Coppin said:

    No, it actually exposes the bad design of BGs having 4 (now 5 for this season) progression levels playing in the same field...

    Just out of curiosity, what precisely makes this a bad design decision?

    From a game design perspective, there's a significant design objective that is met by placing everyone into the same competitive ladder, and that is that overall competitive strength sorts the players properly (once matching ceases to be influenced by roster strength). In a design where every progress tier is separated into different divisions, the game has no way to determine if strong Cav players are stronger than weak TB players. Because they don't interact, there's no objective basis upon which to decide whether the top Cav rewards should be higher or lower than the bottom TB rewards. You'd just be making stuff up. But with a single competition, everyone sorts correctly. Sure, it is unlikely that a UC players will rise to the top of Celestial, but that's an irrelevant knock. What's more important is that overlaps between progression tiers are resolved in competition directly.

    The central requirement of any competition is to sort the competitors by competitive strength. In other words to pick winners and losers by their competitive performance. Segregating competitors prevents this from happening efficiently, which counters the purpose of competitions. That's also why roster matching in VT and prestige matching in AW in the old days are equally suspect. They artificially segregate the competitors, and in doing so prevent the competition from efficiently sorting competitors by competitive performance.

    To me, the only "flaw" of forcing everyone to match against everyone else is the fact that it defies some players' expectations that the competition owes them something other than the brutal, impersonal experience of being sorted into who's stronger and who's weaker, without regard to what they think should count and not count against them. But that's not really a design flaw. That's more of a human flaw.
  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Coppin said:

    No, it actually exposes the bad design of BGs having 4 (now 5 for this season) progression levels playing in the same field...

    Just out of curiosity, what precisely makes this a bad design decision?

    From a game design perspective, there's a significant design objective that is met by placing everyone into the same competitive ladder, and that is that overall competitive strength sorts the players properly (once matching ceases to be influenced by roster strength). In a design where every progress tier is separated into different divisions, the game has no way to determine if strong Cav players are stronger than weak TB players. Because they don't interact, there's no objective basis upon which to decide whether the top Cav rewards should be higher or lower than the bottom TB rewards. You'd just be making stuff up. But with a single competition, everyone sorts correctly. Sure, it is unlikely that a UC players will rise to the top of Celestial, but that's an irrelevant knock. What's more important is that overlaps between progression tiers are resolved in competition directly.

    The central requirement of any competition is to sort the competitors by competitive strength. In other words to pick winners and losers by their competitive performance. Segregating competitors prevents this from happening efficiently, which counters the purpose of competitions. That's also why roster matching in VT and prestige matching in AW in the old days are equally suspect. They artificially segregate the competitors, and in doing so prevent the competition from efficiently sorting competitors by competitive performance.

    To me, the only "flaw" of forcing everyone to match against everyone else is the fact that it defies some players' expectations that the competition owes them something other than the brutal, impersonal experience of being sorted into who's stronger and who's weaker, without regard to what they think should count and not count against them. But that's not really a design flaw. That's more of a human flaw.
    In my opinion the design is terrible.
    It got to the point of having to patch holes to be able to participate and not feel left out, that the whole game lost its competitive edge.
    Climbing up VT was challenging.. now the coin win 2 lose 1.. that's a nerf to accomodate people... The track to plat.. another nerf to accomodate people...
    Most games that cater PVP have a cutthroat aspect... It is on the player to accept their standing.... The way BGs have been for 9 whole seasons is lower progression players complaining about a carrot in a stick that they can't reach and the game changing to accomodate..
    I honestly liked 1 coin win 1 coin lose.. getting to GC actually meant something...
    BG now has a grindy feeling more than a competitive one.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,654 Guardian
    Coppin said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Coppin said:

    No, it actually exposes the bad design of BGs having 4 (now 5 for this season) progression levels playing in the same field...

    Just out of curiosity, what precisely makes this a bad design decision?

    From a game design perspective, there's a significant design objective that is met by placing everyone into the same competitive ladder, and that is that overall competitive strength sorts the players properly (once matching ceases to be influenced by roster strength). In a design where every progress tier is separated into different divisions, the game has no way to determine if strong Cav players are stronger than weak TB players. Because they don't interact, there's no objective basis upon which to decide whether the top Cav rewards should be higher or lower than the bottom TB rewards. You'd just be making stuff up. But with a single competition, everyone sorts correctly. Sure, it is unlikely that a UC players will rise to the top of Celestial, but that's an irrelevant knock. What's more important is that overlaps between progression tiers are resolved in competition directly.

    The central requirement of any competition is to sort the competitors by competitive strength. In other words to pick winners and losers by their competitive performance. Segregating competitors prevents this from happening efficiently, which counters the purpose of competitions. That's also why roster matching in VT and prestige matching in AW in the old days are equally suspect. They artificially segregate the competitors, and in doing so prevent the competition from efficiently sorting competitors by competitive performance.

    To me, the only "flaw" of forcing everyone to match against everyone else is the fact that it defies some players' expectations that the competition owes them something other than the brutal, impersonal experience of being sorted into who's stronger and who's weaker, without regard to what they think should count and not count against them. But that's not really a design flaw. That's more of a human flaw.
    In my opinion the design is terrible.
    It got to the point of having to patch holes to be able to participate and not feel left out, that the whole game lost its competitive edge.
    Climbing up VT was challenging.. now the coin win 2 lose 1.. that's a nerf to accomodate people... The track to plat.. another nerf to accomodate people...
    Most games that cater PVP have a cutthroat aspect... It is on the player to accept their standing.... The way BGs have been for 9 whole seasons is lower progression players complaining about a carrot in a stick that they can't reach and the game changing to accomodate..
    I honestly liked 1 coin win 1 coin lose.. getting to GC actually meant something...
    BG now has a grindy feeling more than a competitive one.
    I'm not sure I really understand the objection. The "accommodations" the devs made to promote participation mostly vanish by P3. So BGs from P3 through GC is essentially "everyone in the same competitive ladder, with one for one points up to GC where matching is by rating." That seems to be exactly what you're saying it should be. I don't understand why you would conclude that putting all progression tiers into the same competition would be a bad decision decision, when that's literally what you seem to be advocating for.

    To put it another way, BG from Bronze to Gold is functioning very similar to how it would function if all progression tiers were separated into different divisions. Not exactly, but similarly. BG from P3 to Celestial 1 functions as if everyone was just thrown together. If you're saying putting everyone together was a design error, that's tantamount to saying you think the way BG works from Bronze to Gold is what you would prefer, and how it works from P3 upward is not. But that seems to be the exact opposite of what you're saying you would prefer.
  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Coppin said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Coppin said:

    No, it actually exposes the bad design of BGs having 4 (now 5 for this season) progression levels playing in the same field...

    Just out of curiosity, what precisely makes this a bad design decision?

    From a game design perspective, there's a significant design objective that is met by placing everyone into the same competitive ladder, and that is that overall competitive strength sorts the players properly (once matching ceases to be influenced by roster strength). In a design where every progress tier is separated into different divisions, the game has no way to determine if strong Cav players are stronger than weak TB players. Because they don't interact, there's no objective basis upon which to decide whether the top Cav rewards should be higher or lower than the bottom TB rewards. You'd just be making stuff up. But with a single competition, everyone sorts correctly. Sure, it is unlikely that a UC players will rise to the top of Celestial, but that's an irrelevant knock. What's more important is that overlaps between progression tiers are resolved in competition directly.

    The central requirement of any competition is to sort the competitors by competitive strength. In other words to pick winners and losers by their competitive performance. Segregating competitors prevents this from happening efficiently, which counters the purpose of competitions. That's also why roster matching in VT and prestige matching in AW in the old days are equally suspect. They artificially segregate the competitors, and in doing so prevent the competition from efficiently sorting competitors by competitive performance.

    To me, the only "flaw" of forcing everyone to match against everyone else is the fact that it defies some players' expectations that the competition owes them something other than the brutal, impersonal experience of being sorted into who's stronger and who's weaker, without regard to what they think should count and not count against them. But that's not really a design flaw. That's more of a human flaw.
    In my opinion the design is terrible.
    It got to the point of having to patch holes to be able to participate and not feel left out, that the whole game lost its competitive edge.
    Climbing up VT was challenging.. now the coin win 2 lose 1.. that's a nerf to accomodate people... The track to plat.. another nerf to accomodate people...
    Most games that cater PVP have a cutthroat aspect... It is on the player to accept their standing.... The way BGs have been for 9 whole seasons is lower progression players complaining about a carrot in a stick that they can't reach and the game changing to accomodate..
    I honestly liked 1 coin win 1 coin lose.. getting to GC actually meant something...
    BG now has a grindy feeling more than a competitive one.
    I'm not sure I really understand the objection. The "accommodations" the devs made to promote participation mostly vanish by P3. So BGs from P3 through GC is essentially "everyone in the same competitive ladder, with one for one points up to GC where matching is by rating." That seems to be exactly what you're saying it should be. I don't understand why you would conclude that putting all progression tiers into the same competition would be a bad decision decision, when that's literally what you seem to be advocating for.

    To put it another way, BG from Bronze to Gold is functioning very similar to how it would function if all progression tiers were separated into different divisions. Not exactly, but similarly. BG from P3 to Celestial 1 functions as if everyone was just thrown together. If you're saying putting everyone together was a design error, that's tantamount to saying you think the way BG works from Bronze to Gold is what you would prefer, and how it works from P3 upward is not. But that seems to be the exact opposite of what you're saying you would prefer.
    So a competitive player sweats Bronce-Silver-Gold (most likely using marks cause milestones are not gonna complete themselves)... To just wreck and stomp small accounts in Plat-Diamond...and that has a spirit of competition?...It also causes this tanking problem...I did not do it.. but i do support it...why? Cause i wanna get those 12 Mill points milestones...did I do it? No.. did i tell my alliance mates to do it? Yes....
    Don't you find it funny that you mentioned before that there are stronger Cavs than TBs, but at the same time then you have them complaining about not being able to move foward?...
    They should have had a 2nd bg probably with no GC or with a proportional reward system... Having to accomodate those lower accounts season after season up to this season 9.. its making it less competitive and somewhat boring...
  • AverageDesiAverageDesi Member Posts: 5,260 ★★★★★

    Where are all the small accounts??? I'm in plat and not a single baby account.

    Am I the baby account?

    Update: Got into plat 2. Lots of Baby Accounts. Felt bad. Gave them wins. Even pushed one into plat 1
  • Ironman3000Ironman3000 Member Posts: 1,955 ★★★★★
    I still stand by the VT not being a competition. It's just the required work to get into the actual competition, which is the GC.
  • DUHveedDUHveed Member Posts: 357 ★★★

    I still stand by the VT not being a competition. It's just the required work to get into the actual competition, which is the GC.

    Per the Oxford dictionary the definition of competing is striving against one another to gain or win something. You can consider it as analogous to a World Cup qualifying match. Every team is of course trying to get into the World Cup tournament but you have qualifying matches to earn a spot. It’s still a competition in the preliminary rounds.
  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★
    edited July 2023
    DUHveed said:

    I still stand by the VT not being a competition. It's just the required work to get into the actual competition, which is the GC.

    Per the Oxford dictionary the definition of competing is striving against one another to gain or win something. You can consider it as analogous to a World Cup qualifying match. Every team is of course trying to get into the World Cup tournament but you have qualifying matches to earn a spot. It’s still a competition in the preliminary rounds.
    U wanna use the world cup?..
    There is a term "Death Group" in the group stages.. it means that the hardest teams fell in it and anything can happen.. also there is a whole event where groups are drawn... So yeah qualifiying, group stages are competitive... Different from giving lower people a pass to Plat and then letting bigger accounts smash em...

    Does Bolivia or Peru get to skip playing Argentina or Brasil until the world cup?
  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★
    edited July 2023
    Bgs are no longer the PVP competitive mode, its become just a grind for rewards like everything else...
    9 and a half seasons.. almost a year in time.. the only changes that have been made were store upgrades and time spent to accomodate lower progression people a fair way to match them or give them rewards... Not a single change that make end game players excited at all in a full year...
  • Ironman3000Ironman3000 Member Posts: 1,955 ★★★★★
    DUHveed said:

    I still stand by the VT not being a competition. It's just the required work to get into the actual competition, which is the GC.

    Per the Oxford dictionary the definition of competing is striving against one another to gain or win something. You can consider it as analogous to a World Cup qualifying match. Every team is of course trying to get into the World Cup tournament but you have qualifying matches to earn a spot. It’s still a competition in the preliminary rounds.
    Use whatever definition you want but a ladder with siloed groups is just homework before the real test. Anything that restricts people from facing each other (without a point reward for harder matches) is not a competition.

    Your WC example also fails in the fact that stronger clubs get to face weaker competition or get byes on their way up.
  • StatureStature Member Posts: 469 ★★★
    Coppin said:

    DUHveed said:

    I still stand by the VT not being a competition. It's just the required work to get into the actual competition, which is the GC.

    Per the Oxford dictionary the definition of competing is striving against one another to gain or win something. You can consider it as analogous to a World Cup qualifying match. Every team is of course trying to get into the World Cup tournament but you have qualifying matches to earn a spot. It’s still a competition in the preliminary rounds.
    U wanna use the world cup?..
    There is a term "Death Group" in the group stages.. it means that the hardest teams fell in it and anything can happen.. also there is a whole event where groups are drawn... So yeah qualifiying, group stages are competitive... Different from giving lower people a pass to Plat and then letting bigger accounts smash em...

    Does Bolivia or Peru get to skip playing Argentina or Brasil until the world cup?
    Bolivia and Peru get to skip all the European teams until World Cup. USA gets to skip Argentina and Brazil and all the European teams. The country hosting the game is automatically qualified. African/Asian/ME teams have their own qualifying group. Everybody doesn't play everybody to decide who goes into world cup, because then it wouldn't be a world cup.
  • Vegeta9001Vegeta9001 Member Posts: 1,708 ★★★★★
    So many bad Paragon players getting handheld to GC by beating Cavalier .players and so many cavalier players getting to GC with countless easy matches, meanwhile my alts still stuck in silver after facing 25 profiles with all 4 r5 6*s on their profile. Idk how people get these easy matches.

    I'd play my main more, but I ain't wasting seals on disconnect simulator.
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