Unavoidable damage

Just a quick note. I don't post much but I need to say something that needs to be said. Unavoidable damage in a game that requires real money / resources to push through isn't a good idea as a business model.

I, like most, have pushed through the collector, ok, fine. It's a stepping stone, I get it. As you push on in alliance war, matches like Electro, not ok. No champion has the ability to negate that "in a meaningful way" and then it just becomes a cash grab.

People like integrity from their games, especially the ones they spend money on. Unavoidable damage that requires you to use resources regardless of your skill level degrades not only the trust in the consumer base but also in hope of the future of the game. 6 star Electros are coming. Not ok Kabam. Take a look at that. No damage in the game should be unavoidable.

Comments

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CoatHang3r

Big difference from the opportunity to spend money and a need to spend money. So far there hasn’t been any fight in the game that’s requires cash to beat. Using Resources to make it though content is a part of every game I can think of so it obviously is a successful game design. False premise is false.

And seriously Mega man required players to match up counters to opponents to beat the game and that’s practically as old as dirt.

LeNoirFaineant

Actually agree with @CoatHang3r here. Even the collector can be beat without Sparkey or OG Vision or insane evade skills without money if you save potions. I used zero units on the collector. Used some to explore 5.2 because I was impatient but used no units on 5.3. Used no money to beat either. Electro has lots of counters. No spending required.

Scarlett_Ohara1113

Ya but the nodes are out of control. Act 5 is all unavoidable damage. Seems kabam can't come up with anything that involves skill anymore. All unit grabs

oleredass

Though i agree with the spirit of what you're saying, your overall premise is neither valid nor thought through. Where i come from, failing business models fail to make money. Actually, a lot of supposedly successful business models don't operate in the black. Think about it this way. When you walk into a convenience store and see some of their pricing, you probably have a thought or two similar to this one. In both cases, regardless of your thoughts, or choices made in response, these businesses are built on a models of convenience, and of course a little exploitation of certain impulsive or addictive tendencies.

Nexus_UY_Scuti

Who said 6* Electros are coming?

I don't recall Electro in the 6* boss tush challenge.

GroundedWisdom

Nexus_UY_Scuti wrote: »

Who said 6* Electros are coming?

I don't recall Electro in the 6* boss tush challenge.

*Rush

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Primmer79

Out of every possible example, you use electro as your example? the one that can be negated by any ability accuracy champ?

Next time use Iceman or Mephisto as your example. (not supporting your argument, only ridiculous
"unavoidable" damage was collector, and you could avoid giving him sp1 if you had og vision or dorm.)

danielmath

Scarlett_Ohara1113 wrote: »

Ya but the nodes are out of control. Act 5 is all unavoidable damage. Seems kabam can't come up with anything that involves skill anymore. All unit grabs

What unavoidable damage was in act 5? I don't remember a single time seeing that and i've 100% everything so far

Brew_Swayne

Electro can be countered by duped widow or Xbones (awakened not necessary) when he has (I think) 3 fury stacks.

Rogue is an excellent counter to Iceman. She shrugs off his cold snap almost immediately.

Mmx1991

_ASDF_ wrote: »

Electro has a low health pool to balance out his Thorns like ability and it can be avoided with Black Widow. I usually use AA on him, place a few neuros and he flops over dead, I lose very little health. It’s about pairing the right champs against the opponent.

I’m about to take out the collector, not spending any money to do it, simply saving a few hundred units to do it. Hardly a cash grab. As long as kabam continues to make it easier to progress and get 5* champs it’ll match the continued difficulty. If they don’t.... definitely a cash grab.

What happens when you run into an electro on a bleed or poison node? Do you still bring Archangel?

What happens when you run into a MD Magik on Node 44 in Tier 1 (bleed/spite node), where you get limbo'd and bled out the entire fight?

I'd like to know what players are supposed to do when specific nodes require specific champs and those specific champs are useless against those specific defenders?

mum_m2

So assuming you mean Magik, Mephisto, Dormmamu, Electro

There are counters to all of them. some take skill, other take one of the newest most hyped up champs ever. But either way, they've done something about your problem.

anyways, regardless, this is a business. they have to make money. If the game was too easy, and no one spent, you wouldn't have this game to play unless you were interrupted mid-fight to check out a Geico ad.

Tjack92

danielmath wrote: »

Scarlett_Ohara1113 wrote: »

Ya but the nodes are out of control. Act 5 is all unavoidable damage. Seems kabam can't come up with anything that involves skill anymore. All unit grabs

What unavoidable damage was in act 5? I don't remember a single time seeing that and i've 100% everything so far

5.1 had flare which is degen but aside from that one I’m not sure there are others.

Mmx1991

mum_m2 wrote: »

So assuming you mean Magik, Mephisto, Dormmamu, Electro

There are counters to all of them. some take skill, other take one of the newest most hyped up champs ever. But either way, they've done something about your problem.

anyways, regardless, this is a business. they have to make money. If the game was too easy, and no one spent, you wouldn't have this game to play unless you were interrupted mid-fight to check out a Geico ad.

What do you do when you have a counter to the defender but not the node?

What do you do against a power gaining mystic dispersion Magik on a bleed node? Bring in Vision and get wrecked by Limbo? Bring Archangel and bleed out?

Shrimkins

There were a few instances in A5 with unavoidable damage, but overall it has been pretty decent.

Some of the worst ones are dormammu, iceman, and punisher. Especially in 5.3 they are brutal.

Deadbyrd9

There are champs made to counter champs like electro. AA kills my magik quickly on anything but debuff immune. Even on spite AA will wreck magik. Just don’t hit mephisto during aura of incineration

CoatHang3r

Mmx1991 wrote: »

mum_m2 wrote: »

So assuming you mean Magik, Mephisto, Dormmamu, Electro

There are counters to all of them. some take skill, other take one of the newest most hyped up champs ever. But either way, they've done something about your problem.

anyways, regardless, this is a business. they have to make money. If the game was too easy, and no one spent, you wouldn't have this game to play unless you were interrupted mid-fight to check out a Geico ad.

What do you do when you have a counter to the defender but not the node?

What do you do against a power gaining mystic dispersion Magik on a bleed node? Bring in Vision and get wrecked by Limbo? Bring Archangel and bleed out?

You sacrifice a pawn.

Mmx1991

Deadbyrd9 wrote: »

There are champs made to counter champs like electro. AA kills my magik quickly on anything but debuff immune. Even on spite AA will wreck magik. Just don’t hit mephisto during aura of incineration

Try bringing AA against Magik on that spite node (44) in Tier 1

mum_m2

Mmx1991 wrote: »

mum_m2 wrote: »

So assuming you mean Magik, Mephisto, Dormmamu, Electro

There are counters to all of them. some take skill, other take one of the newest most hyped up champs ever. But either way, they've done something about your problem.

anyways, regardless, this is a business. they have to make money. If the game was too easy, and no one spent, you wouldn't have this game to play unless you were interrupted mid-fight to check out a Geico ad.

What do you do when you have a counter to the defender but not the node?

What do you do against a power gaining mystic dispersion Magik on a bleed node? Bring in Vision and get wrecked by Limbo? Bring Archangel and bleed out?

Pretty certain there's players who encounter this every day in war and make it through.

I was referring to Blade, who can counter Magik. also has regen to counter the bleed.

Deadbyrd9

@Mmx1991 can’t do that. Someone’s got to handle those arc overload mephistos

scottstevenson86

Guilotine vs arc overload reverse regen freeze maphistos regen phase. As for elecro use cb start fight parry hold bolck get overrun going evade they heavy and go to town. Cb takes some damage at 3 fury stacks but if you get to 4 its a 100 defensive ability block.

danielmath

Shrimkins wrote: »

There were a few instances in A5 with unavoidable damage, but overall it has been pretty decent.

Some of the worst ones are dormammu, iceman, and punisher. Especially in 5.3 they are brutal.

Dorm and punisher don't have any unavoidable damage. I get that some people want to fight only a colossus with no power gain, easy to avoid specials, and no abilities, but that would be boring

DNA3000

Mmx1991 wrote: »

_ASDF_ wrote: »

Electro has a low health pool to balance out his Thorns like ability and it can be avoided with Black Widow. I usually use AA on him, place a few neuros and he flops over dead, I lose very little health. It’s about pairing the right champs against the opponent.

I’m about to take out the collector, not spending any money to do it, simply saving a few hundred units to do it. Hardly a cash grab. As long as kabam continues to make it easier to progress and get 5* champs it’ll match the continued difficulty. If they don’t.... definitely a cash grab.

What happens when you run into an electro on a bleed or poison node? Do you still bring Archangel?

What happens when you run into a MD Magik on Node 44 in Tier 1 (bleed/spite node), where you get limbo'd and bled out the entire fight?

I'd like to know what players are supposed to do when specific nodes require specific champs and those specific champs are useless against those specific defenders?

I'm not in tier 1, but if I was in tier 1 and someone assigned me those paths, I would probably bring Ghost Rider to Electro/Bleed and Dormammu to Magik on 44. Not sure about Electro/Poison, but I think I would probably try Hyperion.

The obvious counter to Electro is ability accuracy reduction to avoid the strike back, but the two alternatives that work well enough are strong heals to get the strike back damage back which Ghost Rider has, and simply avoiding making contact as often as possible and kill him as quickly as possible with ranged attacks which Hyperion can do.

I have no experience with tier 1 fights, but that's what I would do if I was in that situation.

Epistriatus

danielmath wrote: »

Shrimkins wrote: »

There were a few instances in A5 with unavoidable damage, but overall it has been pretty decent.

Some of the worst ones are dormammu, iceman, and punisher. Especially in 5.3 they are brutal.

Dorm and punisher don't have any unavoidable damage. I get that some people want to fight only a colossus with no power gain, easy to avoid specials, and no abilities, but that would be boring

I’m a noob, so enlighten me how Dorm doesn’t have unavoidable damage? Really curious here 🤔

Frosty

Dorm doesn't have unavoidable damage. He only causes damage if you yourself get buffs. Remove dexterity and bring a champ that doesn't cause buffs.

I think this is terrible strategy but that's how you would have to do it

Epistriatus

Frosty wrote: »

Dorm doesn't have unavoidable damage. He only causes damage if you yourself get buffs. Remove dexterity and bring a champ that doesn't cause buffs.

I think this is terrible strategy but that's how you would have to do it

Ok, technically that sounds right. Also agree with the terrible strategy idea.
I’m looking forward to the new 5.4 node where you can’t hit a blocking enemy (cuz it will give them fury, unstoppable or something), my money is on that enemies wil use the mordo strategy (basically just go in a continuous block mode, unless u try a heavy, then they evade & return to a blocking position).

DNA3000

Epistriatus wrote: »

Frosty wrote: »

Dorm doesn't have unavoidable damage. He only causes damage if you yourself get buffs. Remove dexterity and bring a champ that doesn't cause buffs.

I think this is terrible strategy but that's how you would have to do it

Ok, technically that sounds right. Also agree with the terrible strategy idea.
I’m looking forward to the new 5.4 node where you can’t hit a blocking enemy (cuz it will give them fury, unstoppable or something), my money is on that enemies wil use the mordo strategy (basically just go in a continuous block mode, unless u try a heavy, then they evade & return to a blocking position).

You're probably thinking of the explosive personality node: striking a blocking target with give them an armor buff, and if you let them get to five stacks of armor you'll be hit with an explosion that takes 25% of your health away. Apparently, you can avoid hitting block or you can nullify the armor buffs away.

Mordo doesn't just stay in block, you can get him out of that. But if the AI in explosive is tuned to stay in block a lot there are counters to that as well. Quake comes to mind, and Mordo himself also comes to mind. Mordo loves fighting passive opponents because you can be fury buffed constantly.

danielmath

Epistriatus wrote: »

danielmath wrote: »

Shrimkins wrote: »

There were a few instances in A5 with unavoidable damage, but overall it has been pretty decent.

Some of the worst ones are dormammu, iceman, and punisher. Especially in 5.3 they are brutal.

Dorm and punisher don't have any unavoidable damage. I get that some people want to fight only a colossus with no power gain, easy to avoid specials, and no abilities, but that would be boring

I’m a noob, so enlighten me how Dorm doesn’t have unavoidable damage? Really curious here 🤔

If you have Magik, you can lock him down and never take degen. There's no MD in story mode so it's not much of an issue. In 5.3, a 5/50 Magik could take him without any issues and take minimal damage even with 50% reduced attack.