The damage discrepancy between Onslaught and Dani Moonstar

SecondSkriller

I’m trying to approach this topic in a polite way, by taking a look at the damage of these two 2023 Mutants.

Initially I presumed Dani would have an edge over Onslaught in some regard, anything, maybe perhaps her damage is better in shorter fights, considering the utility difference between the two is night and day. However, it seems that the only fight she’ll ever beat him in is Nick Fury…

I seriously urge the rebalance team to really tune her up properly, since there’s really no doubt in my mind that she’s the worst 2023 champion, far behind Gladiator even.
For Onslaught to have utility like he has, damage like he has and also insane defensive prowess, it makes no sense why Dani, a purely offensive champion with no immunities whatsoever, would get outclassed even in the damage department by him.

Here’s the numbers: Dani: 7 star rank 1 duped, Onslaught 6 star rank 4 ascended duped








I love her design and it sucks that the first native american champion in the game is so purposefully undertuned.

SecondSkriller

Another thing I wanted to mention is that her damage is energy and physical and relies highly on buffs and crits, while Onslaught’s is pure degen damage…

JLordVileJ

WHOAH how much health does ex star lord have? If it is the same as ex red hulk that's insane because my r3 ascended nick takes down ex red in maybe 6 mins I think? Maybe 7, 8 max 10 for a 7 star is kinda like wha

BigBlueOx

It really feels like they missed the mark here.

Darkraw346

Im sorry that the mutant with arrows and a bow isn't as strong as literally Magneto and Proffesor X in one+reality warp powers taken from Franklin Richards and Nate grey I think, who gave troubled to so much more than just the X men

JLordVileJ

Darkraw346 said:

Im sorry that the mutant with arrows and a bow isn't as strong as literally Magneto and Proffesor X in one+reality warp powers taken from Franklin Richards and Nate grey I think, who gave troubled to so much more than just the X men

And onslaught has every negative feeling that prof felt in the last couple of decades to be fair. Tho....this game isn't about who should be stronger so that argument imo is null. In this game a guys with a skateboard beats a guy with the force of a million exploding stars

SecondSkriller

Darkraw346 said:

Im sorry that the mutant with arrows and a bow isn't as strong as literally Magneto and Proffesor X in one+reality warp powers taken from Franklin Richards and Nate grey I think, who gave troubled to so much more than just the X men

This is a very stupid argument, since the game doesn’t balance champions around lore. Scorpion is infinitely better than Sentry in this game.

MarvelNoob

I love my r2 dani, she consistently does ROL WS in under 40 seconds, the sp2 normally takes off atleast 400k.

I use 6 star gambit relic and max cides 24 7 so of course its gonna be crazy tho🤷‍♂️

SecondSkriller

MarvelNoob said:

I love my r2 dani, she consistently does ROL WS in under 40 seconds, the sp2 normally takes off atleast 400k.

I use 6 star gambit relic and max cides 24 7 so of course its gonna be crazy tho🤷‍♂️

You’re referencing fights where the special 2 actually crits. I have the 6 star Gambit relic equipped aswell and it doesn’t even matter since the final sp2 hit is energy based, not physical.

Wicket329

JLordVileJ said:

WHOAH how much health does ex star lord have? If it is the same as ex red hulk that's insane because my r3 ascended nick takes down ex red in maybe 6 mins I think? Maybe 7, 8 max 10 for a 7 star is kinda like wha

Labyrinth Starlord has roughly double the health of Labyrinth Red Hulk.

MarvelNoob

SecondSkriller said:

MarvelNoob said:

I love my r2 dani, she consistently does ROL WS in under 40 seconds, the sp2 normally takes off atleast 400k.

I use 6 star gambit relic and max cides 24 7 so of course its gonna be crazy tho🤷‍♂️

You’re referencing fights where the special 2 actually crits. I have the 6 star Gambit relic equipped aswell and it doesn’t even matter since the final sp2 hit is energy based, not physical.

Even if the last hit doesn't crit its still over 100k damage, for no ramp up I'd say she's a top mutant. Just my opinion

Pikolu

My man, you're literally comparing Dani to the dude, when utilized correctly, has some of the highest damage output in the game. Onslaught soloed abyss collector within 4 minutes. The dude is seriously busted.

Ghostboytjie

Is it just me or is this guy ALWAYS trying to find a way to make a champion look bad?

Judging from the pics of dani it doesnt even look like you played her right. Plus Onslaught is litteraly a champ that perma ramps up. It just goes and his damage goes up. While you reramp up dani after ramping her up. But most her opponents die within the sp3 rampup. And opponents with ROL Hp dies within a sp2 rampup. I have a R5 with gambit relic and im ascending her also her sp2 is physical. So the last hit doesnt matter if it crits or not. She also has the neuroshocks afterwards if it didnt die that will certainly kill it.

Manup456

You can do this with lot’s of champs in the game so what’s the point of the thread?

Ghostboytjie

Oh no guys. Kamala isn't hitting as hard as CGR even if both can armor break. Oh no Kamala is -t-r-a-s-h- ( ofc not).

Basicly how you are comparing 2 champs with 2 different purposes with 2 different rampups with 2 different ways to use.

You can't or you shouldn't compare X to Y because the moment you do, you will always have a problem that X can't do something that Y can.

X = Kamala (Dani)
Y = CGR (Onslaught)

X can nulify on special attacks / every special is a fury / gain resistance per fury / puts armor break when you have fury with synergy / takes selfies and can embiggen.

Y can fate seal and heal block on 5 judgements If duped / has power gain / fury / crit / armor / can't dex a lot or lose cruelty damage / armor breaks / has bigger yellow numbers / has a flaming bike and guns

Comparing this Y looks more satisfying. But X in the other hand IS satisfying. Where Y needs dupe. X can do without dupe minus heal block. Where Y has big yellow numbers. X can actually dex and not lose damage and can gain a lot of fury. Where Y only has a flaming bike and guns. X has a cellphone and can go mr fantastic style.


Lesson kids : Don't Compare , rather prepare.

altavista

Your comparison doesn't work, besides outside of being 2023 Mutants, and having Neuroshock in their kit, they are different. One focuses on Prowess and special damage, the other focuses on debuff damage. Shuri is not the same as Infamous Iron Man despite both being 2022 Techs and having Shock in their kit.

Colinwhitworth69

2023 was a great year for champs. Onslaught is better than Dani. So what?

If they had been released with the same level of power then people would be complaining that Onslaught needs to be buffed.

Some folks just have to complain.

BitterSteel

Here’s a R5 Dani vs R5 onslaught. I managed to get a faster time with Dani, does that mean onslaught needs tuning up?

Damage comparisons in RoL are probably the last place you should look for evidence of a need for rebalancing

SecondSkriller

BitterSteel said:

Here’s a R5 Dani vs R5 onslaught. I managed to get a faster time with Dani, does that mean onslaught needs tuning up?

Damage comparisons in RoL are probably the last place you should look for evidence of a need for rebalancing

No, it means Dani needs tuning up, especially since to get that time your Dani crit on her sp2. Her crit chance is 18% so that’s 1 out of 5 matchups where it crits.

SecondSkriller

Colinwhitworth69 said:

2023 was a great year for champs. Onslaught is better than Dani. So what?

If they had been released with the same level of power then people would be complaining that Onslaught needs to be buffed.

Some folks just have to complain.

I disagree. Onslaught is too strong and Dani is too weak. The middlegroud would have been the best. People are calling Onslaught the best mutant and rightfully so, he’s beyond broken. Meanwhile, Dani is underwhelming even in her best matchup.

BitterSteel

SecondSkriller said:

BitterSteel said:

Here’s a R5 Dani vs R5 onslaught. I managed to get a faster time with Dani, does that mean onslaught needs tuning up?

Damage comparisons in RoL are probably the last place you should look for evidence of a need for rebalancing

No, it means Dani needs tuning up, especially since to get that time your Dani crit on her sp2. Her crit chance is 18% so that’s 1 out of 5 matchups where it crits.

And I got this time without the crit on the last hit of the special. So 58 seconds is the cut off between being ok, but any more and they need a tune up?

And besides, using an insane damage champion like Onslaught as the bench mark? Why not go ahead and compare her utility to Hercules and say she sucks based on that too.

SecondSkriller

altavista said:

Your comparison doesn't work, besides outside of being 2023 Mutants, and having Neuroshock in their kit, they are different. One focuses on Prowess and special damage, the other focuses on debuff damage. Shuri is not the same as Infamous Iron Man despite both being 2022 Techs and having Shock in their kit.

Shuri and Idoom are extremely compatible for comparison and so are Dani and Onslaught. Onslaught is the direct better version of Dani in every single regard. And because they came out in the same year it’s not ok to set the bar so low for one and so high for another.

SecondSkriller

Pikolu said:

My man, you're literally comparing Dani to the dude, when utilized correctly, has some of the highest damage output in the game. Onslaught soloed abyss collector within 4 minutes. The dude is seriously busted.

Noth 2023 mutants, this is why I made the thread, to show exactly what undertuned and overtuned means.

SecondSkriller

MarvelNoob said:

SecondSkriller said:

MarvelNoob said:

I love my r2 dani, she consistently does ROL WS in under 40 seconds, the sp2 normally takes off atleast 400k.

I use 6 star gambit relic and max cides 24 7 so of course its gonna be crazy tho🤷‍♂️

You’re referencing fights where the special 2 actually crits. I have the 6 star Gambit relic equipped aswell and it doesn’t even matter since the final sp2 hit is energy based, not physical.

Even if the last hit doesn't crit its still over 100k damage, for no ramp up I'd say she's a top mutant. Just my opinion

Show me a picture of the last hit being over 100k noncrit and I will never make another complaint thread again.

Edit: without any sp3 prowess ofc.

Pikolu

SecondSkriller said:

altavista said:

Your comparison doesn't work, besides outside of being 2023 Mutants, and having Neuroshock in their kit, they are different. One focuses on Prowess and special damage, the other focuses on debuff damage. Shuri is not the same as Infamous Iron Man despite both being 2022 Techs and having Shock in their kit.

Shuri and Idoom are extremely compatible for comparison and so are Dani and Onslaught. Onslaught is the direct better version of Dani in every single regard. And because they came out in the same year it’s not ok to set the bar so low for one and so high for another.

You did not just say Shuri and iron doom are comparable. Shuris damage is based on shocks and doing non-contact every attack. Iron Dooms damage is based on power burn. You will use both champions for completely different matchups and with completely different playstyles. Try using Shuri against Bishop and tell me if they're comparable.

SecondSkriller

Pikolu said:

SecondSkriller said:

altavista said:

Your comparison doesn't work, besides outside of being 2023 Mutants, and having Neuroshock in their kit, they are different. One focuses on Prowess and special damage, the other focuses on debuff damage. Shuri is not the same as Infamous Iron Man despite both being 2022 Techs and having Shock in their kit.

Shuri and Idoom are extremely compatible for comparison and so are Dani and Onslaught. Onslaught is the direct better version of Dani in every single regard. And because they came out in the same year it’s not ok to set the bar so low for one and so high for another.

You did not just say Shuri and iron doom are comparable. Shuris damage is based on shocks and doing non-contact every attack. Iron Dooms damage is based on power burn. You will use both champions for completely different matchups and with completely different playstyles. Try using Shuri against Bishop and tell me if they're comparable.

Comparable doesn’t mean identical. I said compatible for comparison because they utilize similar mechanics like shock and non-crit attacks, don’t take it so seriously I didn’t say Idoom is better than her…

Hoitado

Saying that she is purposefully undertuned because of her Native American Background is a bogus claim in my opinion.

SecondSkriller

BitterSteel said:

SecondSkriller said:

BitterSteel said:

Here’s a R5 Dani vs R5 onslaught. I managed to get a faster time with Dani, does that mean onslaught needs tuning up?

Damage comparisons in RoL are probably the last place you should look for evidence of a need for rebalancing

No, it means Dani needs tuning up, especially since to get that time your Dani crit on her sp2. Her crit chance is 18% so that’s 1 out of 5 matchups where it crits.

And I got this time without the crit on the last hit of the special. So 58 seconds is the cut off between being ok, but any more and they need a tune up?

And besides, using an insane damage champion like Onslaught as the bench mark? Why not go ahead and compare her utility to Hercules and say she sucks based on that too.

Both 2023 mutants, she should have had the damage, not him. He has the utility. The way I see it is that he offers much more but doesn’t have that much damage offensively and she is the offensive neuroshock powerhouse with much less utility.

How am I wrong?

BitterSteel

Hoitado said:

Saying that she is purposefully undertuned because of her Native American Background is a bogus claim in my opinion.

I disagree with everything OP said, but he didn’t say that in fairness. He just said that it sucked that the first Native American champ was undertuned, not that it was because of her heritage

SecondSkriller

Hoitado said:

Saying that she is purposefully undertuned because of her Native American Background is a bogus claim in my opinion.

No one said that. I said it sucks that it happened to be her. You’re projecting.

SecondSkriller

BitterSteel said:

Hoitado said:

Saying that she is purposefully undertuned because of her Native American Background is a bogus claim in my opinion.

I disagree with everything OP said, but he didn’t say that in fairness. He just said that it sucked that the first Native American champ was undertuned, not that it was because of her heritage

Thank you and also not thank you for disagreeing with the rest…