Just as a general point, for those of you who are trying to push for Valiant (or TB) before new EOP drops, Jax mentioned on the stream that there should be one extra point, and each champion has only one Valiant objective, so you technically have an extra two weeks to push for Valiant before you would start losing rewards.
Now, I am all for Valiant players to start getting unique rewards, they've earned it. It is a bit of a bummer for those of us who can explore Necropolis but didn't have the luxury of 10k extra units to bludgeon our way through early on, since we didn't have incentive early on for exploration beyond the daily crystal or just bragging rights. I'm about to start my 4th trip through Necro tomorrow (?), but I might have focused even more on exploration quicker if there had been any notice of Valiant exclusive content coming so soon. Honestly, the rewards aren't game-changing to someone at that level, but this would have been an easy little carrot that Kabam could have mentioned in response to the 2 million "Valiant isn't even worth it" complaints I've read over the last month. It also would have been a nice heads up to players who are trying to go through at a more leisurly pace.
They did in all fairness give a heads up when the title was released. The choice of delaying exploration came with the inherent risk of missing out on something valiant related.
Didn't say me. I'm just posting counter arguments, it's easy to join the general consensus on the forums.
1. doesn't mean everyone knew about revive farming 2. doesn't mean everyone has time to do all that
But that’s essentially what you’re saying. The top title shouldn’t just be handed out. It needs to be earned. And rewards for the title, since it’s elite, should be given to those who have attained it. Otherwise, what is the point in titles?
OP point is there's no other way to achieve Valiant because T4A can't be attained any other way. The content isn't hard when a majority of people who got it just revived through it. It would be quite interesting to see the actual Valiant count had the nerf been implemented prior to Necropolis release (I doubt there would be that many taking into consideration banquet event and cyber monday was coming up).
The whole "It's a hard title" doesn't make sense if people just revived through exploration which even Kabam stated was the reason behind nerfing farming because they can't just make end game content for people to easily explore in less then a month or two.
I'm very happy I didn't have to take a dimensional being vs Blade.
Summer of pain was the same format. It came fairly soon after paragon title was released and some of those who were on the cusp of paragon had to wait for the second round to get paragon objectives.
OP point is there's no other way to achieve Valiant because T4A can't be attained any other way. The content isn't hard when a majority of people who got it just revived through it. It would be quite interesting to see the actual Valiant count had the nerf been implemented prior to Necropolis release (I doubt there would be that many taking into consideration banquet event and cyber monday was coming up).
The whole "It's a hard title" doesn't make sense if people just revived through exploration which even Kabam stated was the reason behind nerfing farming because they can't just make end game content for people to easily explore in less then a month or two.
They said in early to mid November what the paths to Valient were. Since titles were released there has always been benefits to being the highest progression. If someone chose to wait to get the highest progression title, that is from a lack of foresight.
Continuing to argue about not exploring Necro is a little ridiculous too. From the beginning revive farming was mentioned in streams and on forums. Again, if you didn’t farm revives to explore Necro because you figured it would be easier to just wait and explore 8.4, you can’t then cry about missing out on better rewards before 8.4 has dropped.
I'm very happy I didn't have to take a dimensional being vs Blade.
Summer of pain was the same format. It came fairly soon after paragon title was released and some of those who were on the cusp of paragon had to wait for the second round to get paragon objectives.
Summer of pain was 2021, paragon was achievable May 2022.
@Pikolu I agree with having valiant only rewards but I'm saying that limiting ways of becoming valiant to paying money and exploring necropolis is really what's bothering me.
Why?
The whole point was to provide a purely gameplay way to reach Valiant that did not require spending even when the title launched and they chose to gate that in the hardest difficulty content in the game. That makes perfect sense.
There will be other ways to get to Valiant over time, in fact the EoP2 rewards seem to contain some T4A for Paragon players and there were implications that 8.4 or Act 8 total rewards would also contain R3 materials. But right now Valiant hasn't even been around for three full months yet, and you should expect it will be difficult to achieve it so soon after it was released.
A lot of F2P players have made it to Valiant without spending by exploring Necropolis. I saw RichtheMan get there not that long ago. It is doable, but it is not easy. It isn't supposed to be.
I'm very happy I didn't have to take a dimensional being vs Blade.
Summer of pain was the same format. It came fairly soon after paragon title was released and some of those who were on the cusp of paragon had to wait for the second round to get paragon objectives.
Summer of pain was 2021, paragon was achievable May 2022.
You're thinking of eternity of pain.
Oh yeah!! You are right..for some reason I attribute all pains to summer!!
OP point is there's no other way to achieve Valiant because T4A can't be attained any other way. The content isn't hard when a majority of people who got it just revived through it. It would be quite interesting to see the actual Valiant count had the nerf been implemented prior to Necropolis release (I doubt there would be that many taking into consideration banquet event and cyber monday was coming up).
The whole "It's a hard title" doesn't make sense if people just revived through exploration which even Kabam stated was the reason behind nerfing farming because they can't just make end game content for people to easily explore in less then a month or two.
They said in early to mid November what the paths to Valient were. Since titles were released there has always been benefits to being the highest progression. If someone chose to wait to get the highest progression title, that is from a lack of foresight.
Continuing to argue about not exploring Necro is a little ridiculous too. From the beginning revive farming was mentioned in streams and on forums. Again, if you didn’t farm revives to explore Necro because you figured it would be easier to just wait and explore 8.4, you can’t then cry about missing out on better rewards before 8.4 has dropped.
Your whole argument assumes people watches the live and visits the forums. Continuing to argue how Necro is hard content is ridiculous too. You can continue to cry about how good you are at the game with a sense of entitlement for achieving a title through revive farming, but it's just not true. You can't then cry about others saying that locking valiant behind Necropolis isn't fair.
Sorry just trying to follow your response guidelines
Your whole argument assumes people watches the live and visits the forums. Continuing to argue how Necro is hard content is ridiculous too. You can continue to cry about how good you are at the game with a sense of entitlement for achieving a title through revive farming, but it's just not true. You can't then cry about others saying that locking valiant behind Necropolis isn't fair.
Sorry just trying to follow your response guidelines
“Your whole argument assumes people watches the live and visits the forums.” We’re talking about this on the forums, correct?
Not once have I said Necro is hard content. In fact, I’ve only talked about farming revives for it. Exactly what you were saying. I made the effort to get the resources to explore it.
There were two paths to Valient before 8.4 dropped. Spend or explore Necro. Doing neither and then complaining about not being Valient, while knowing the path to becoming Valient, and also knowing that rewards are always better for the highest tier title is just comical.
This wouldn’t be fair for the people who put in the work and grinded for valiant. It be a disservice to the guys who sweated profusely and not gain an advantage over everyone else.
OP point is there's no other way to achieve Valiant because T4A can't be attained any other way. The content isn't hard when a majority of people who got it just revived through it. It would be quite interesting to see the actual Valiant count had the nerf been implemented prior to Necropolis release (I doubt there would be that many taking into consideration banquet event and cyber monday was coming up).
The whole "It's a hard title" doesn't make sense if people just revived through exploration which even Kabam stated was the reason behind nerfing farming because they can't just make end game content for people to easily explore in less then a month or two.
They said in early to mid November what the paths to Valient were. Since titles were released there has always been benefits to being the highest progression. If someone chose to wait to get the highest progression title, that is from a lack of foresight.
Continuing to argue about not exploring Necro is a little ridiculous too. From the beginning revive farming was mentioned in streams and on forums. Again, if you didn’t farm revives to explore Necro because you figured it would be easier to just wait and explore 8.4, you can’t then cry about missing out on better rewards before 8.4 has dropped.
Your whole argument assumes people watches the live and visits the forums. Continuing to argue how Necro is hard content is ridiculous too. You can continue to cry about how good you are at the game with a sense of entitlement for achieving a title through revive farming, but it's just not true. You can't then cry about others saying that locking valiant behind Necropolis isn't fair.
Sorry just trying to follow your response guidelines
Not everyone watches the live streams and not everyone reads the forums. However, anyone who is trying to do everything possible to reach the top progression tier in the game in the fastest way possible with the least amount of resources possible should be doing everything they can to educate themselves about this game and what's going on in it.
99% of players do not follow any of that stuff closely, nor do they need to. They just play the game. But if a player isn't doing everything possible to achieve their own personally set goals, I don't really think they have a leg to stand on when they complain that the options to achieve them are too hard or they didn't even know what the options were to achieve them in the first place.
Every game I've ever played has had "that's not really hard" discussions. I consider them a bunch of drivel myself. If a player set themselves the goal of completing or exploring Necropolis, and they did whatever they had to do to achieve that goal, I don't particularly care how they did it. The game is the game, the rules are the rules, and that's that. If a player is Valiant, they earned it, whether they farmed a billion revives or whaled out while zonked out on turkey. They did what was required to achieve Valiant, and they are now entitled to the rewards associated with Valiant.
Every progression game is fueled in part by pursuit goals. Those goals have to follow a progression of difficulty. Games judge difficulty by seeing how many players actually achieve those goals. If it is a lot, it is easy. If it is only a few, it is hard. Period. Valiant is the top progression tier in the game, and it is less than three months old. It should be difficult to get. Few players have it at the moment, so it is difficult to get. Period. Belittling how those who got it got it serves no useful purpose to a game that builds itself upon a foundation of valuing those who chase those goals by the very means they did so.
“Your whole argument assumes people watches the live and visits the forums.” We’re talking about this on the forums, correct?
Not once have I said Necro is hard content. In fact, I’ve only talked about farming revives for it. Exactly what you were saying. I made the effort to get the resources to explore it.
There were two paths to Valient before 8.4 dropped. Spend or explore Necro. Doing neither and then complaining about not being Valient, while knowing the path to becoming Valient, and also knowing that rewards are always better for the highest tier title is just comical.
The top title shouldn’t just be handed out. It needs to be earned. And rewards for the title, since it’s elite, should be given to those who have attained it. Otherwise, what is the point in titles?
Every game I've ever played has had "that's not really hard" discussions. I consider them a bunch of drivel myself. If a player set themselves the goal of completing or exploring Necropolis, and they did whatever they had to do to achieve that goal, I don't particularly care how they did it. The game is the game, the rules are the rules, and that's that. If a player is Valiant, they earned it, whether they farmed a billion revives or whaled out while zonked out on turkey. They did what was required to achieve Valiant, and they are now entitled to the rewards associated with Valiant.
Every progression game is fueled in part by pursuit goals. Those goals have to follow a progression of difficulty. Games judge difficulty by seeing how many players actually achieve those goals. If it is a lot, it is easy. If it is only a few, it is hard. Period. Valiant is the top progression tier in the game, and it is less than three months old. It should be difficult to get. Few players have it at the moment, so it is difficult to get. Period. Belittling how those who got it got it serves no useful purpose to a game that builds itself upon a foundation of valuing those who chase those goals by the very means they did so.
I'm only making counter arguments. I'm not belittling anyone for how they got the title, but if they try to belittle others for not achieving it and saying it's supposed to be earned, yet they revive farmed then it's contradictory. Is it meant to be earned or just revive farmed. If that's the case roll back the game and take away revive farming and lets see exactly how many people become valiant and then make fun of others for not being on the forums or watching the live streams. Not that many people are invested in it as others, yes they missed out on an easy opportunity, but it's no reason to shun them for it or belittle them.
It's now only difficult on the premise that people can't revive farm anymore. Is it difficult? no, you can easily farm units through various ways to save up for revives, it just takes a lot longer (especially if they don't grind arenas which does take a long time just to get units).
I was only grilling into him because he tries to sit on a high horse claiming it has to be earned. Yes Valiant will be able to be obtained through easier means in the future and the OP missed out on an opportunity, but it's no reason to be an ahole about it.
Every game I've ever played has had "that's not really hard" discussions. I consider them a bunch of drivel myself. If a player set themselves the goal of completing or exploring Necropolis, and they did whatever they had to do to achieve that goal, I don't particularly care how they did it. The game is the game, the rules are the rules, and that's that. If a player is Valiant, they earned it, whether they farmed a billion revives or whaled out while zonked out on turkey. They did what was required to achieve Valiant, and they are now entitled to the rewards associated with Valiant.
Every progression game is fueled in part by pursuit goals. Those goals have to follow a progression of difficulty. Games judge difficulty by seeing how many players actually achieve those goals. If it is a lot, it is easy. If it is only a few, it is hard. Period. Valiant is the top progression tier in the game, and it is less than three months old. It should be difficult to get. Few players have it at the moment, so it is difficult to get. Period. Belittling how those who got it got it serves no useful purpose to a game that builds itself upon a foundation of valuing those who chase those goals by the very means they did so.
I'm only making counter arguments. I'm not belittling anyone for how they got the title, but if they try to belittle others for not achieving it and saying it's supposed to be earned, yet they revive farmed then it's contradictory. Is it meant to be earned or just revive farmed. If that's the case roll back the game and take away revive farming and lets see exactly how many people become valiant and then make fun of others for not being on the forums or watching the live streams. Not that many people are invested in it as others, yes they missed out on an easy opportunity, but it's no reason to shun them for it or belittle them.
It's now only difficult on the premise that people can't revive farm anymore. Is it difficult? no, you can easily farm units through various ways to save up for revives, it just takes a lot longer (especially if they don't grind arenas which does take a long time just to get units).
I was only grilling into him because he tries to sit on a high horse claiming it has to be earned. Yes Valiant will be able to be obtained through easier means in the future and the OP missed out on an opportunity, but it's no reason to be an ahole about it.
You don't even need revive farming for the Necropolis. It is designed in such a way that if you are skilled you can do it just fine. The only reason you think it needs revive farming is that you yourself cannot do it without revive farming and are projecting that out to everyone and everything. People like me who used the revive farm used it because it was easy and we didn't have to think that much to faceslam with aegon but the necro can be done without it stop joking with yourself, this is not the hill to die on you're basically just saying that since you arent capable no one is
Every game I've ever played has had "that's not really hard" discussions. I consider them a bunch of drivel myself. If a player set themselves the goal of completing or exploring Necropolis, and they did whatever they had to do to achieve that goal, I don't particularly care how they did it. The game is the game, the rules are the rules, and that's that. If a player is Valiant, they earned it, whether they farmed a billion revives or whaled out while zonked out on turkey. They did what was required to achieve Valiant, and they are now entitled to the rewards associated with Valiant.
Every progression game is fueled in part by pursuit goals. Those goals have to follow a progression of difficulty. Games judge difficulty by seeing how many players actually achieve those goals. If it is a lot, it is easy. If it is only a few, it is hard. Period. Valiant is the top progression tier in the game, and it is less than three months old. It should be difficult to get. Few players have it at the moment, so it is difficult to get. Period. Belittling how those who got it got it serves no useful purpose to a game that builds itself upon a foundation of valuing those who chase those goals by the very means they did so.
I'm only making counter arguments. I'm not belittling anyone for how they got the title, but if they try to belittle others for not achieving it and saying it's supposed to be earned, yet they revive farmed then it's contradictory. Is it meant to be earned or just revive farmed. If that's the case roll back the game and take away revive farming and lets see exactly how many people become valiant and then make fun of others for not being on the forums or watching the live streams. Not that many people are invested in it as others, yes they missed out on an easy opportunity, but it's no reason to shun them for it or belittle them.
It's now only difficult on the premise that people can't revive farm anymore. Is it difficult? no, you can easily farm units through various ways to save up for revives, it just takes a lot longer (especially if they don't grind arenas which does take a long time just to get units).
I was only grilling into him because he tries to sit on a high horse claiming it has to be earned. Yes Valiant will be able to be obtained through easier means in the future and the OP missed out on an opportunity, but it's no reason to be an ahole about it.
You don't even need revive farming for the Necropolis. It is designed in such a way that if you are skilled you can do it just fine. The only reason you think it needs revive farming is that you yourself cannot do it without revive farming and are projecting that out to everyone and everything. People like me who used the revive farm used it because it was easy and we didn't have to think that much to faceslam with aegon but the necro can be done without it stop joking with yourself, this is not the hill to die on you're basically just saying that since you arent capable no one is
Unless you have Wong, Shuri, and Kate, the likelihood of you doing a necropolis run without extensive revives is 0 to 0. especially taking in the nodes in each area, rooting, etc.
People like you who think they're good, but revived farm is the best part of this game. It's easy to troll you in forums. Stop joking with yourself.
Every game I've ever played has had "that's not really hard" discussions. I consider them a bunch of drivel myself. If a player set themselves the goal of completing or exploring Necropolis, and they did whatever they had to do to achieve that goal, I don't particularly care how they did it. The game is the game, the rules are the rules, and that's that. If a player is Valiant, they earned it, whether they farmed a billion revives or whaled out while zonked out on turkey. They did what was required to achieve Valiant, and they are now entitled to the rewards associated with Valiant.
Every progression game is fueled in part by pursuit goals. Those goals have to follow a progression of difficulty. Games judge difficulty by seeing how many players actually achieve those goals. If it is a lot, it is easy. If it is only a few, it is hard. Period. Valiant is the top progression tier in the game, and it is less than three months old. It should be difficult to get. Few players have it at the moment, so it is difficult to get. Period. Belittling how those who got it got it serves no useful purpose to a game that builds itself upon a foundation of valuing those who chase those goals by the very means they did so.
I'm only making counter arguments. I'm not belittling anyone for how they got the title, but if they try to belittle others for not achieving it and saying it's supposed to be earned, yet they revive farmed then it's contradictory. Is it meant to be earned or just revive farmed. If that's the case roll back the game and take away revive farming and lets see exactly how many people become valiant and then make fun of others for not being on the forums or watching the live streams. Not that many people are invested in it as others, yes they missed out on an easy opportunity, but it's no reason to shun them for it or belittle them.
It's now only difficult on the premise that people can't revive farm anymore. Is it difficult? no, you can easily farm units through various ways to save up for revives, it just takes a lot longer (especially if they don't grind arenas which does take a long time just to get units).
I was only grilling into him because he tries to sit on a high horse claiming it has to be earned. Yes Valiant will be able to be obtained through easier means in the future and the OP missed out on an opportunity, but it's no reason to be an ahole about it.
You don't even need revive farming for the Necropolis. It is designed in such a way that if you are skilled you can do it just fine. The only reason you think it needs revive farming is that you yourself cannot do it without revive farming and are projecting that out to everyone and everything. People like me who used the revive farm used it because it was easy and we didn't have to think that much to faceslam with aegon but the necro can be done without it stop joking with yourself, this is not the hill to die on you're basically just saying that since you arent capable no one is
Unless you have Wong, Shuri, and Kate, the likelihood of you doing a necropolis run without extensive revives is 0 to 0.
And the problem with that is what exactly? Have you played this game before?
If that's the case roll back the game and take away revive farming and lets see exactly how many people become valiant and then make fun of others for not being on the forums or watching the live streams. Not that many people are invested in it as others, yes they missed out on an easy opportunity, but it's no reason to shun them for it or belittle them.
It's now only difficult on the premise that people can't revive farm anymore. Is it difficult? no, you can easily farm units through various ways to save up for revives, it just takes a lot longer (especially if they don't grind arenas which does take a long time just to get units).
We are talking mainly about Paragon players (and some TB players, but realistically, it would be a relatively smaller number of players who were TB when Necropolis was released, and could make the push to become Paragon and then do Necropolis).
1. If Paragon players aren't on the forums or watching live streams, they might not even know about Revive farming, so they wouldn't 'benefit' whether or not revive farming is there or not. 2. If Paragon players aren't on the forums or watching live streams, but are aware of Revive farming (based on their alliance or something), they likely should also be given some information on Valiant benefits and how to become Valiant.
Theoretically, Road to the Crypt should have been enough to convince these Paragon level players to obtain Valiant prior to Jan.
If they didn't know about Road to the Crypt, then they theoretically wouldn't also know that the next way to obtain Valiant would be to explore Act 8.4, and wouldn't know when it is releasing (as they don't read forums or follow livestreams).
You seem to be arguing on behalf of a population of Paragon level players, who are aware of Revive farming, are aware of Act 8.4 releasing as a way to become Valiant, don't follow the Forum or Livestreams, didn't care about or weren't aware of Road to the Crypt, and would have pushed to obtain Valiant prior to Feb 2nd, had they known what they know now.
OP is making a post of feeling regret and wondering if there is a way to salve that, which is an entirely valid sentiment. You seem to be arguing about a potential hypothetical situation.
They did the same thing for paragons when paragon was new. Why are you surprised this time? Each progression title SHOULD have thier own exclusive stuff otherwise what's the point of a new progression title.
Road to the Crypt just required completion, not exploration/Valiant. I don’t see how that would have motivated anyone to reach Valiant. It definitely motivated me to make a completion run though.
Until now, aside from the daily crystals Valiant didn’t have much benefit if any.
Now it will have a big upside in a week or two, which is great. I think it should have from the get go but here we are.
I just think this could have been timed and rolled out in a more friendly way or at least with more warning on what you’d miss out on and when if you were waiting for 8.4.
There is no reasonable “push” to Valiant in a week or two unless you only have a path or two of Necropolis left and several thousand units on hand. That’s the part that feels bad. Not that Valiants gets more, not that getting Valiant is hard, just that there has been no big carrot to get there and now suddenly there is but there’s not enough time to do it.
In a few weeks none of it will matter, but today they rolled something out that left some of us not feeling great. I think it could have been done better.
Valiants telling us to suck it up is fine but really doesn’t change anything.
Road to the Crypt just required completion, not exploration/Valiant. I don’t see how that would have motivated anyone to reach Valiant. It definitely motivated me to make a completion run though.
Until now, aside from the daily crystals Valiant didn’t have much benefit if any.
Now it will have a big upside in a week or two, which is great. I think it should have from the get go but here we are.
I just think this could have been timed and rolled out in a more friendly way or at least with more warning on what you’d miss out on and when if you were waiting for 8.4.
There is no reasonable “push” to Valiant in a week or two unless you only have a path or two of Necropolis left and several thousand units on hand. That’s the part that feels bad. Not that Valiants gets more, not that getting Valiant is hard, just that there has been no big carrot to get there and now suddenly there is but there’s not enough time to do it.
In a few weeks none of it will matter, but today they rolled something out that left some of us not feeling great. I think it could have been done better.
Valiants telling us to suck it up is fine but really doesn’t change anything.
In case you missed this on the page, refer to the post 👇
Just as a general point, for those of you who are trying to push for Valiant (or TB) before new EOP drops, Jax mentioned on the stream that there should be one extra point, and each champion has only one Valiant objective, so you technically have an extra two weeks to push for Valiant before you would start losing rewards.
Now, I am all for Valiant players to start getting unique rewards, they've earned it. It is a bit of a bummer for those of us who can explore Necropolis but didn't have the luxury of 10k extra units to bludgeon our way through early on, since we didn't have incentive early on for exploration beyond the daily crystal or just bragging rights. I'm about to start my 4th trip through Necro tomorrow (?), but I might have focused even more on exploration quicker if there had been any notice of Valiant exclusive content coming so soon. Honestly, the rewards aren't game-changing to someone at that level, but this would have been an easy little carrot that Kabam could have mentioned in response to the 2 million "Valiant isn't even worth it" complaints I've read over the last month. It also would have been a nice heads up to players who are trying to go through at a more leisurly pace.
They did in all fairness give a heads up when the title was released. The choice of delaying exploration came with the inherent risk of missing out on something valiant related.
That doesn’t say or even imply it would be before 8.4 and we all know early next year could mean anything. New masteries have been “coming soon” for years.
Every game I've ever played has had "that's not really hard" discussions. I consider them a bunch of drivel myself. If a player set themselves the goal of completing or exploring Necropolis, and they did whatever they had to do to achieve that goal, I don't particularly care how they did it. The game is the game, the rules are the rules, and that's that. If a player is Valiant, they earned it, whether they farmed a billion revives or whaled out while zonked out on turkey. They did what was required to achieve Valiant, and they are now entitled to the rewards associated with Valiant.
Every progression game is fueled in part by pursuit goals. Those goals have to follow a progression of difficulty. Games judge difficulty by seeing how many players actually achieve those goals. If it is a lot, it is easy. If it is only a few, it is hard. Period. Valiant is the top progression tier in the game, and it is less than three months old. It should be difficult to get. Few players have it at the moment, so it is difficult to get. Period. Belittling how those who got it got it serves no useful purpose to a game that builds itself upon a foundation of valuing those who chase those goals by the very means they did so.
I'm only making counter arguments. I'm not belittling anyone for how they got the title, but if they try to belittle others for not achieving it and saying it's supposed to be earned, yet they revive farmed then it's contradictory. Is it meant to be earned or just revive farmed. If that's the case roll back the game and take away revive farming and lets see exactly how many people become valiant and then make fun of others for not being on the forums or watching the live streams. Not that many people are invested in it as others, yes they missed out on an easy opportunity, but it's no reason to shun them for it or belittle them.
It's now only difficult on the premise that people can't revive farm anymore. Is it difficult? no, you can easily farm units through various ways to save up for revives, it just takes a lot longer (especially if they don't grind arenas which does take a long time just to get units).
I was only grilling into him because he tries to sit on a high horse claiming it has to be earned. Yes Valiant will be able to be obtained through easier means in the future and the OP missed out on an opportunity, but it's no reason to be an ahole about it.
You don't even need revive farming for the Necropolis. It is designed in such a way that if you are skilled you can do it just fine. The only reason you think it needs revive farming is that you yourself cannot do it without revive farming and are projecting that out to everyone and everything. People like me who used the revive farm used it because it was easy and we didn't have to think that much to faceslam with aegon but the necro can be done without it stop joking with yourself, this is not the hill to die on you're basically just saying that since you arent capable no one is
People like you who think they're good, but revived farm is the best part of this game. It's easy to troll you in forums. Stop joking with yourself.
Maybe I’m misinterpreting this, but it sounds like the best part of this game for you is trolling people on the forums. If that’s true… I don’t know, maybe just sit with that for a while. Deriving joy from making strangers angry online is not a healthy pastime.
As for the “you think you’re good but you revive farmed” bit, that’s just a weird thing to be so upset about. I haven’t seen anybody out here like “oh yeah I’m so good at this game, I farmed up 200 revives!” It feels like you’re mad at a person who doesn’t exist.
Nobody uses Valiant as a measuring stick for skill. No top alliance is asking recruits if they’ve explored Necropolis or completed it and whaled out on Cyber Sales to see if they can hang. What Valiant actually measures is engagement. A person who has 100% explored Necropolis is extremely engaged with this game, to the point that they were willing to spend a substantial amount of time or resources to do that, and had previously built out their roster to a point that they were capable of tackling it. A person who has completed Necropolis and spent a bunch of money for their second r3 is also highly engaged with the game.
Valiant players are not by definition more skilled or better than Paragon players, but they are by definition more engaged. And Kabam rewards engagement.
Honestly, if there was a “Note: if you wait until 8.4 to get Valiant you’ll likely miss out on some Valiant only rewards we have planned before 8.4 is released” when they announced the routes to Valiant I think that would have been enough more me.
Road to the Crypt just required completion, not exploration/Valiant. I don’t see how that would have motivated anyone to reach Valiant. It definitely motivated me to make a completion run though.
Until now, aside from the daily crystals Valiant didn’t have much benefit if any.
Now it will have a big upside in a week or two, which is great. I think it should have from the get go but here we are.
I just think this could have been timed and rolled out in a more friendly way or at least with more warning on what you’d miss out on and when if you were waiting for 8.4.
There is no reasonable “push” to Valiant in a week or two unless you only have a path or two of Necropolis left and several thousand units on hand. That’s the part that feels bad. Not that Valiants gets more, not that getting Valiant is hard, just that there has been no big carrot to get there and now suddenly there is but there’s not enough time to do it.
In a few weeks none of it will matter, but today they rolled something out that left some of us not feeling great. I think it could have been done better.
Valiants telling us to suck it up is fine but really doesn’t change anything.
Every game I've ever played has had "that's not really hard" discussions. I consider them a bunch of drivel myself. If a player set themselves the goal of completing or exploring Necropolis, and they did whatever they had to do to achieve that goal, I don't particularly care how they did it. The game is the game, the rules are the rules, and that's that. If a player is Valiant, they earned it, whether they farmed a billion revives or whaled out while zonked out on turkey. They did what was required to achieve Valiant, and they are now entitled to the rewards associated with Valiant.
Every progression game is fueled in part by pursuit goals. Those goals have to follow a progression of difficulty. Games judge difficulty by seeing how many players actually achieve those goals. If it is a lot, it is easy. If it is only a few, it is hard. Period. Valiant is the top progression tier in the game, and it is less than three months old. It should be difficult to get. Few players have it at the moment, so it is difficult to get. Period. Belittling how those who got it got it serves no useful purpose to a game that builds itself upon a foundation of valuing those who chase those goals by the very means they did so.
I'm only making counter arguments. I'm not belittling anyone for how they got the title, but if they try to belittle others for not achieving it and saying it's supposed to be earned, yet they revive farmed then it's contradictory.
No, its not. Belittling someone for not having a particular title is wrong, but saying you have to earn it is not belittling. Those are two completely different things. I'm not defending the former, but the latter is just reality.
Sure, you can say it was easier back when you could more easily farm revives. But that's just the veterans' argument in reverse: it will never be harder than it was when we did it, so who cares what you do now. I became Uncollected when it was as hard as it will ever be. I did Act 6 before it was nerfed, without the champion options that exist now, without the rank up tiers that exist now. That's something to be proud of, but the players today that clear Act 6 earn the same clear I did. The people attempting Necropolis clears have no leg to stand on if they complain it is harder now. It will only get easier, and they have the benefit of way more information about how to do it than the people who did it right out of the gate. That's just how the game works, and how it always will work.
This game constantly changes and evolves. You play the game as it exists when you play it. You don't ask for the game as it was. Unless you want all your progress reviewed in the same light.
Comments
I'm very happy I didn't have to take a dimensional being vs Blade.
The whole "It's a hard title" doesn't make sense if people just revived through exploration which even Kabam stated was the reason behind nerfing farming because they can't just make end game content for people to easily explore in less then a month or two.
Continuing to argue about not exploring Necro is a little ridiculous too. From the beginning revive farming was mentioned in streams and on forums. Again, if you didn’t farm revives to explore Necro because you figured it would be easier to just wait and explore 8.4, you can’t then cry about missing out on better rewards before 8.4 has dropped.
You're thinking of eternity of pain.
The whole point was to provide a purely gameplay way to reach Valiant that did not require spending even when the title launched and they chose to gate that in the hardest difficulty content in the game. That makes perfect sense.
There will be other ways to get to Valiant over time, in fact the EoP2 rewards seem to contain some T4A for Paragon players and there were implications that 8.4 or Act 8 total rewards would also contain R3 materials. But right now Valiant hasn't even been around for three full months yet, and you should expect it will be difficult to achieve it so soon after it was released.
A lot of F2P players have made it to Valiant without spending by exploring Necropolis. I saw RichtheMan get there not that long ago. It is doable, but it is not easy. It isn't supposed to be.
Sorry just trying to follow your response guidelines
- some F2P Valiant
Not once have I said Necro is hard content. In fact, I’ve only talked about farming revives for it. Exactly what you were saying. I made the effort to get the resources to explore it.
There were two paths to Valient before 8.4 dropped. Spend or explore Necro. Doing neither and then complaining about not being Valient, while knowing the path to becoming Valient, and also knowing that rewards are always better for the highest tier title is just comical.
99% of players do not follow any of that stuff closely, nor do they need to. They just play the game. But if a player isn't doing everything possible to achieve their own personally set goals, I don't really think they have a leg to stand on when they complain that the options to achieve them are too hard or they didn't even know what the options were to achieve them in the first place.
Every game I've ever played has had "that's not really hard" discussions. I consider them a bunch of drivel myself. If a player set themselves the goal of completing or exploring Necropolis, and they did whatever they had to do to achieve that goal, I don't particularly care how they did it. The game is the game, the rules are the rules, and that's that. If a player is Valiant, they earned it, whether they farmed a billion revives or whaled out while zonked out on turkey. They did what was required to achieve Valiant, and they are now entitled to the rewards associated with Valiant.
Every progression game is fueled in part by pursuit goals. Those goals have to follow a progression of difficulty. Games judge difficulty by seeing how many players actually achieve those goals. If it is a lot, it is easy. If it is only a few, it is hard. Period. Valiant is the top progression tier in the game, and it is less than three months old. It should be difficult to get. Few players have it at the moment, so it is difficult to get. Period. Belittling how those who got it got it serves no useful purpose to a game that builds itself upon a foundation of valuing those who chase those goals by the very means they did so.
It's now only difficult on the premise that people can't revive farm anymore. Is it difficult? no, you can easily farm units through various ways to save up for revives, it just takes a lot longer (especially if they don't grind arenas which does take a long time just to get units).
I was only grilling into him because he tries to sit on a high horse claiming it has to be earned. Yes Valiant will be able to be obtained through easier means in the future and the OP missed out on an opportunity, but it's no reason to be an ahole about it.
People like you who think they're good, but revived farm is the best part of this game. It's easy to troll you in forums. Stop joking with yourself.
1. If Paragon players aren't on the forums or watching live streams, they might not even know about Revive farming, so they wouldn't 'benefit' whether or not revive farming is there or not.
2. If Paragon players aren't on the forums or watching live streams, but are aware of Revive farming (based on their alliance or something), they likely should also be given some information on Valiant benefits and how to become Valiant.
Theoretically, Road to the Crypt should have been enough to convince these Paragon level players to obtain Valiant prior to Jan.
If they didn't know about Road to the Crypt, then they theoretically wouldn't also know that the next way to obtain Valiant would be to explore Act 8.4, and wouldn't know when it is releasing (as they don't read forums or follow livestreams).
You seem to be arguing on behalf of a population of Paragon level players, who are aware of Revive farming, are aware of Act 8.4 releasing as a way to become Valiant, don't follow the Forum or Livestreams, didn't care about or weren't aware of Road to the Crypt, and would have pushed to obtain Valiant prior to Feb 2nd, had they known what they know now.
OP is making a post of feeling regret and wondering if there is a way to salve that, which is an entirely valid sentiment. You seem to be arguing about a potential hypothetical situation.
Until now, aside from the daily crystals Valiant didn’t have much benefit if any.
Now it will have a big upside in a week or two, which is great. I think it should have from the get go but here we are.
I just think this could have been timed and rolled out in a more friendly way or at least with more warning on what you’d miss out on and when if you were waiting for 8.4.
There is no reasonable “push” to Valiant in a week or two unless you only have a path or two of Necropolis left and several thousand units on hand. That’s the part that feels bad. Not that Valiants gets more, not that getting Valiant is hard, just that there has been no big carrot to get there and now suddenly there is but there’s not enough time to do it.
In a few weeks none of it will matter, but today they rolled something out that left some of us not feeling great. I think it could have been done better.
Valiants telling us to suck it up is fine but really doesn’t change anything.
As for the “you think you’re good but you revive farmed” bit, that’s just a weird thing to be so upset about. I haven’t seen anybody out here like “oh yeah I’m so good at this game, I farmed up 200 revives!” It feels like you’re mad at a person who doesn’t exist.
Nobody uses Valiant as a measuring stick for skill. No top alliance is asking recruits if they’ve explored Necropolis or completed it and whaled out on Cyber Sales to see if they can hang. What Valiant actually measures is engagement. A person who has 100% explored Necropolis is extremely engaged with this game, to the point that they were willing to spend a substantial amount of time or resources to do that, and had previously built out their roster to a point that they were capable of tackling it. A person who has completed Necropolis and spent a bunch of money for their second r3 is also highly engaged with the game.
Valiant players are not by definition more skilled or better than Paragon players, but they are by definition more engaged. And Kabam rewards engagement.
(im still paragon)
Sure, you can say it was easier back when you could more easily farm revives. But that's just the veterans' argument in reverse: it will never be harder than it was when we did it, so who cares what you do now. I became Uncollected when it was as hard as it will ever be. I did Act 6 before it was nerfed, without the champion options that exist now, without the rank up tiers that exist now. That's something to be proud of, but the players today that clear Act 6 earn the same clear I did. The people attempting Necropolis clears have no leg to stand on if they complain it is harder now. It will only get easier, and they have the benefit of way more information about how to do it than the people who did it right out of the gate. That's just how the game works, and how it always will work.
This game constantly changes and evolves. You play the game as it exists when you play it. You don't ask for the game as it was. Unless you want all your progress reviewed in the same light.