Better Defender? Red Skull vs FAM

Polygon

So its obvious that FAM is the better dual threat, since Red Skull is noted for being used primarily on just Domino in attack, but who do you think is the better defender in BGs?

WinterFields

Red Skull

Personally I like when my opponent places FAM as long as I don't get screwed in the draft. Both Diablo and HB make the fight so easy

captain_rogers

Future Antman

FAM, Not even close. You can stun red skull, and can't hit his block, so intercepts are risky, That's it. You still can bait heavy and punish. And armor break champs completely shut him down. Herc galan venom and most other cosmic champs shut him down. Cgr will completely destroy him. Even without a counter you can kill him at yellow health.

FAM is a nightmare in defense and he is the most banned champ in my bg deck. He can also end fights as attacker in single sp2.

captain_rogers

Future Antman

WinterFields said:

Personally I like when my opponent places FAM as long as I don't get screwed in the draft. Both Diablo and HB make the fight so easy

How both of them counter FAM? Do you just kill FAM before he becomes annoying?

WinterFields

Red Skull

captain_rogers said:

WinterFields said:

Personally I like when my opponent places FAM as long as I don't get screwed in the draft. Both Diablo and HB make the fight so easy

How both of them counter FAM? Do you just kill FAM before he becomes annoying?

Both use a parry-heavy strategy and dex Sp1. For Diablo, don't use any prefights so that your attack is higher. The poisons from heavy will take him out.

HB is a bit trickier but still not hard. HB hits hard and the shocks from heavy add up. Only use Sp1 if it would finish him immediately. If you can get to Sp3, that ends it. Sp2 into block can also set you up.

For reference though, my Diablo is 6* R5 ascended and HB is 7* R3

Polygon

One thing is that Red Skull exists as a 7* now and yeah the dupe is nice for attack, but anything past sig 1 is fluff and I’m sure the 7* stats makeup for the unawakened

ItsClobberinTime

Red Skull

Personally I have more trouble with Red Skull than FAM. I've beaten FAM without counters before just by intercepting a lot, and also I have like five different counters in my deck. I've beaten Red Skull too but it's usually a longer fight and more health loss because of block damage so for me, Red Skull.

EdisonLaw

Red Skull

They are equal to me but I might say Red Skull is slightly more annoying

Skyfaw

Red Skull

captain_rogers said:

FAM, Not even close. You can stun red skull, and can't hit his block, so intercepts are risky, That's it. You still can bait heavy and punish. And armor break champs completely shut him down. Herc galan venom and most other cosmic champs shut him down. Cgr will completely destroy him. Even without a counter you can kill him at yellow health.

FAM is a nightmare in defense and he is the most banned champ in my bg deck. He can also end fights as attacker in single sp2.

All those champs you mentioned also cook FAM. At least you’re able to parry FAM or hit his block. With Red Goat you can’t punish his specials because of auto block on sp1 or the unstoppable on his sp2. FAM is just a straight up fight when you compare the 2.

AadhyVan

Red Skull

That block damage some how gets me most of the time I try to intercept! Sigh!!

Jack2634

Red Skull

it is a really close one. This meta only, definitely red skull, he is deadly with the node's bonus attack (basically dead if u get hit). Without it, he is still slightly better because despite his dogsh** base stats, the armor make him incredibly tanky, not to mention his specials is like mysterio 2.0

Polygon

ItsClobberinTime said:

Personally I have more trouble with Red Skull than FAM. I've beaten FAM without counters before just by intercepting a lot, and also I have like five different counters in my deck. I've beaten Red Skull too but it's usually a longer fight and more health loss because of block damage so for me, Red Skull.

Block damage from his basic attacks? Cause you can bait the sp1 to avoid sp2 block damage

ZEN

Red Skull

With current Meta, Red Skull, he’s annoying. Can’t hit on block, auto block on sp1…you get so much damage…

GrO_ot78

Red Skull

Both good defenders, but a bad intercept vs RS and you will in best case scenario hit his block, and thats not good.

Angela is my fav counter for both, but i would rather face FAM than RS.

AcidBurn404

Future Antman

By a whole mile

ItsClobberinTime

Red Skull

Polygon said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

Personally I have more trouble with Red Skull than FAM. I've beaten FAM without counters before just by intercepting a lot, and also I have like five different counters in my deck. I've beaten Red Skull too but it's usually a longer fight and more health loss because of block damage so for me, Red Skull.

Block damage from his basic attacks? Cause you can bait the sp1 to avoid sp2 block damage

Not from specials, basic attacks cause you can't parry and intercepting is very risky. Also, the fury buffs from the meta.

Toproller89

Peni Parker is worse than either of these.

Rayven5220

Future Antman

Toproller89 said:

Peni Parker is worse than either of these.

Not a chance.....

captain_rogers

Future Antman

Skyfaw said:

captain_rogers said:

FAM, Not even close. You can stun red skull, and can't hit his block, so intercepts are risky, That's it. You still can bait heavy and punish. And armor break champs completely shut him down. Herc galan venom and most other cosmic champs shut him down. Cgr will completely destroy him. Even without a counter you can kill him at yellow health.

FAM is a nightmare in defense and he is the most banned champ in my bg deck. He can also end fights as attacker in single sp2.

All those champs you mentioned also cook FAM. At least you’re able to parry FAM or hit his block. With Red Goat you can’t punish his specials because of auto block on sp1 or the unstoppable on his sp2. FAM is just a straight up fight when you compare the 2.

Galan won't, galan is the worst possible counter to FAM.
Venom isn't ideal either.

Red skull is pretty easy actually if you use a autoblock counter, which many cosmics are. Also armor breaks/Neutralize work against Red skull. They won't work against FAM.

ItsClobberinTime

Red Skull

captain_rogers said:

Skyfaw said:

captain_rogers said:

FAM, Not even close. You can stun red skull, and can't hit his block, so intercepts are risky, That's it. You still can bait heavy and punish. And armor break champs completely shut him down. Herc galan venom and most other cosmic champs shut him down. Cgr will completely destroy him. Even without a counter you can kill him at yellow health.

FAM is a nightmare in defense and he is the most banned champ in my bg deck. He can also end fights as attacker in single sp2.

All those champs you mentioned also cook FAM. At least you’re able to parry FAM or hit his block. With Red Goat you can’t punish his specials because of auto block on sp1 or the unstoppable on his sp2. FAM is just a straight up fight when you compare the 2.

Galan won't, galan is the worst possible counter to FAM.
Venom isn't ideal either.

Red skull is pretty easy actually if you use a autoblock counter, which many cosmics are. Also armor breaks/Neutralize work against Red skull. They won't work against FAM.

You can remove FAM's armor buffs simply by intercepting, you don't necessarily need a counter for FAM I've beaten him with Silk and KP before.
Red Skull you can also beat without a counter but it's a longer fight.

Nemesis_17

Future Antman

I don’t find red skull that difficult personally. He can definitely be slow but that’s usually only without a good counter. As far as block damage goes if you can reparry and partial dex his sp2 the chip damage is very manageable. To me fam is much more threatening.

Also maybe this is common knowledge and I’m just slow, but shuri is a great red skull counter who you maybe wouldn’t think of. With her high block proficiency she mitigates most chip damage and guaranteed crits bypass his armor.

captain_rogers

Future Antman

ItsClobberinTime said:

captain_rogers said:

Skyfaw said:

captain_rogers said:

FAM, Not even close. You can stun red skull, and can't hit his block, so intercepts are risky, That's it. You still can bait heavy and punish. And armor break champs completely shut him down. Herc galan venom and most other cosmic champs shut him down. Cgr will completely destroy him. Even without a counter you can kill him at yellow health.

FAM is a nightmare in defense and he is the most banned champ in my bg deck. He can also end fights as attacker in single sp2.

All those champs you mentioned also cook FAM. At least you’re able to parry FAM or hit his block. With Red Goat you can’t punish his specials because of auto block on sp1 or the unstoppable on his sp2. FAM is just a straight up fight when you compare the 2.

Galan won't, galan is the worst possible counter to FAM.
Venom isn't ideal either.

Red skull is pretty easy actually if you use a autoblock counter, which many cosmics are. Also armor breaks/Neutralize work against Red skull. They won't work against FAM.

You can remove FAM's armor buffs simply by intercepting, you don't necessarily need a counter for FAM I've beaten him with Silk and KP before.
Red Skull you can also beat without a counter but it's a longer fight.

Agreed FAM Don't need a counter. Both red skull and FAM Can be played around.

But FAM is a lil rng defender like domino. You don't want him to get 2 or more armor ups, so you have to wait and play. Let's say you're using a champ like silk who have a lot of hits on her special. If Fam gets a armor up during her special, he has chance to get more, and now it's impossible to defeat him. He is very annoying even with a counter.

You can always heavy bait red skull. He don't deal high damage on block or something.

captain_rogers

Future Antman

Nemesis_17 said:

I don’t find red skull that difficult personally. He can definitely be slow but that’s usually only without a good counter. As far as block damage goes if you can reparry and partial dex his sp2 the chip damage is very manageable. To me fam is much more threatening.

Also maybe this is common knowledge and I’m just slow, but shuri is a great red skull who you maybe wouldn’t think of. With her high block proficiency she mitigates most chip damage and guaranteed crits bypass his armor.

Shuri does well on FAM. She still applies shocks bypassing glance and her shocks deal damage ignoring his Armor.

Nemesis_17

Future Antman

captain_rogers said:

Nemesis_17 said:

I don’t find red skull that difficult personally. He can definitely be slow but that’s usually only without a good counter. As far as block damage goes if you can reparry and partial dex his sp2 the chip damage is very manageable. To me fam is much more threatening.

Also maybe this is common knowledge and I’m just slow, but shuri is a great red skull who you maybe wouldn’t think of. With her high block proficiency she mitigates most chip damage and guaranteed crits bypass his armor.

Shuri does well on FAM. She still applies shocks bypassing glance and her shocks deal damage ignoring his Armor.

I’ve never tried this matchup but noted for the future, appreciate it.

Skyfaw

Red Skull

captain_rogers said:

Skyfaw said:

captain_rogers said:

FAM, Not even close. You can stun red skull, and can't hit his block, so intercepts are risky, That's it. You still can bait heavy and punish. And armor break champs completely shut him down. Herc galan venom and most other cosmic champs shut him down. Cgr will completely destroy him. Even without a counter you can kill him at yellow health.

FAM is a nightmare in defense and he is the most banned champ in my bg deck. He can also end fights as attacker in single sp2.

All those champs you mentioned also cook FAM. At least you’re able to parry FAM or hit his block. With Red Goat you can’t punish his specials because of auto block on sp1 or the unstoppable on his sp2. FAM is just a straight up fight when you compare the 2.

Galan won't, galan is the worst possible counter to FAM.
Venom isn't ideal either.

Red skull is pretty easy actually if you use a autoblock counter, which many cosmics are. Also armor breaks/Neutralize work against Red skull. They won't work against FAM.

You can nit pick attackers but it’s easier to counter FAM all you have to do is intercept and his shields come off. Which you could use basically almost anyone. You actually need a hard counter to red skull or it’s a long fight.

Zuro

FAM is like Sassy the RNG aspect of things can easily mess up things. While with red skull you know what to expect everytime. Although without a proper counter Red Skull is probably a tad bit harder to fight

ItsClobberinTime

Red Skull

captain_rogers said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

captain_rogers said:

Skyfaw said:

captain_rogers said:

FAM, Not even close. You can stun red skull, and can't hit his block, so intercepts are risky, That's it. You still can bait heavy and punish. And armor break champs completely shut him down. Herc galan venom and most other cosmic champs shut him down. Cgr will completely destroy him. Even without a counter you can kill him at yellow health.

FAM is a nightmare in defense and he is the most banned champ in my bg deck. He can also end fights as attacker in single sp2.

All those champs you mentioned also cook FAM. At least you’re able to parry FAM or hit his block. With Red Goat you can’t punish his specials because of auto block on sp1 or the unstoppable on his sp2. FAM is just a straight up fight when you compare the 2.

Galan won't, galan is the worst possible counter to FAM.
Venom isn't ideal either.

Red skull is pretty easy actually if you use a autoblock counter, which many cosmics are. Also armor breaks/Neutralize work against Red skull. They won't work against FAM.

You can remove FAM's armor buffs simply by intercepting, you don't necessarily need a counter for FAM I've beaten him with Silk and KP before.
Red Skull you can also beat without a counter but it's a longer fight.

Agreed FAM Don't need a counter. Both red skull and FAM Can be played around.

But FAM is a lil rng defender like domino. You don't want him to get 2 or more armor ups, so you have to wait and play. Let's say you're using a champ like silk who have a lot of hits on her special. If Fam gets a armor up during her special, he has chance to get more, and now it's impossible to defeat him. He is very annoying even with a counter.

You can always heavy bait red skull. He don't deal high damage on block or something.

You can come back from that easily, I've even been able to remove all of them after he got to 5. If you can intercept l well, FAM is not a threat.

Yes you can, but if you're heavy baiting Red Skull and baiting sp1 without a counter it's a very very long fight.

Let's say you're fighting both and you don't have a counter for any of them. FAM you can play around his mechanics by intercepting. Red Skull you can't, you're forced to heavy bait and wait out auto block or unstoppable every single time not to mention the more armor ups he has the tankier he gets.

Ultragamer

Future Antman

Fam shuts down certain champs while red skull shuts no one down

ItsClobberinTime

Red Skull

Ultragamer said:

Fam shuts down certain champs while red skull shuts no one down

He shuts down Domino, FAM doesn't. FAM is better offensively but implying Red Skull is useless offensively is wild lol.

Polygon

@WinterFields @ItsClobberinTime @Skyfaw @GrO_ot78 @ZEN @Jack2634 @AadhyVan

You’ve all made great points in favor of Red Skull, but would you r5 him over FAM given that red skull would mainly be used for Domino with FAM being way more versatile on attack?

Also is Red Skulls dupe noteworthy enough to make investing in the 6* worth it given the 7* being in the Titan Pool? It could help his ramp up but I’m not sure how many fights it would be useful in besides Domino. Not that hes a bad attacker just that usually there will be other better attackers for the matchup

Skyfaw

Red Skull

Polygon said:

@WinterFields @ItsClobberinTime @Skyfaw @GrO_ot78 @ZEN @Jack2634 @AadhyVan

You’ve all made great points in favor of Red Skull, but would you r5 him over FAM given that red skull would mainly be used for Domino with FAM being way more versatile on attack?

Also is Red Skulls dupe noteworthy enough to make investing in the 6* worth it given the 7* being in the Titan Pool? It could help his ramp up but I’m not sure how many fights it would be useful in besides Domino. Not that hes a bad attacker just that usually there will be other better attackers for the matchup

I would invest in FAM he just overall better. Red Goat is a 7* and he doesn’t need the dupe. Both be great additions to the BG deck either way.