Best Dual Threat?

Polygon

For BGs

Red Skull might be the best defender of the bunch, but Guardian handles more meta defenders than him. Also I imagine at higher sig, Guardians critical damage resistance can stop a lot of nukes that bypassed his autoblock.

Also on a side note, how does everyone like the Guardian vs Domino matchup? On paper he should work well, but she can fail his crits, charges, and shocks to mess with the matchup

Glassback

Guardian

I really rate guardian in BG, he is a great domino counter.

She can make him fail some shocks, but if he is made to fail he applies a pretty potent shock that hits a lot harder than the willpower can help.

captain_rogers

Red Skull

Shocker is the best attacker imo out of these 3. But he can be handled easily on defense unless the meta favours him.

If not shocker, I'll go red skull as he needs a counter otherwise it's a guaranteed loss for you.

Guardian is great on offense, but he is not a defensive threat, He is just a staller, unlike red skull.

ItsClobberinTime

Guardian

captain_rogers said:

Shocker is the best attacker imo out of these 3. But he can be handled easily on defense unless the meta favours him.

If not shocker, I'll go red skull as he needs a counter otherwise it's a guaranteed loss for you.

Guardian is great on offense, but he is not a defensive threat, He is just a staller, unlike red skull.

Red Skull is a staller too, you don't necessarily lose health against him unless you're playing it risky he's just a tank with autoblock, same as Guardian. It's a tie imo, both are too good, and both should be in everyone's deck.

PT_99

Red Skull

Glassback said:

I really rate guardian in BG, he is a great domino counter.

She can make him fail some shocks, but if he is made to fail he applies a pretty potent shock that hits a lot harder than the willpower can help.

You know who's better for Domino? Redskull, he NEVER gets critical failure.
Plus sp2 to sp1 is game over and you can take her double medium attacks on block to power burn her fully and damage also

Plus on defence, he's like wayyyy above Guardian.

captain_rogers

Red Skull

ItsClobberinTime said:

captain_rogers said:

Shocker is the best attacker imo out of these 3. But he can be handled easily on defense unless the meta favours him.

If not shocker, I'll go red skull as he needs a counter otherwise it's a guaranteed loss for you.

Guardian is great on offense, but he is not a defensive threat, He is just a staller, unlike red skull.

Red Skull is a staller too, you don't necessarily lose health against him unless you're playing it risky he's just a tank with autoblock, same as Guardian. It's a tie imo, both are too good, and both should be in everyone's deck.

They are definitely not a tie in defense.

Guardian needs high sig to be as tanky as red skull, and you need to remove his armor (via nullify, armor break) or use auto block counter/unblockable attacks to do special attack damage. That's the only defensive ability he have.

While for red skull, He is very tanky at the start of fight even unduped, and his tankiness increases as the fight goes. He gains multiple stacks of armor which you can't nullify.

If you don't use a armor break champ, you cannot stun him eventually, and only rely on baiting heavies and specials for opening. Can't intercept as it's risky and you might hit his block.
And if you don't have a autoblock counter, you can't punish his sp1 with light and medium attacks, so the only openings are heavy baiting, which means you have to take a lot of blocked hits. And 7*s have huge block penetration.

In a pure defense pov, Red skull is wayyy higher than Guardian. Red skull is more than a tank with autoblock.

Polygon

PT_99 said:

Glassback said:

I really rate guardian in BG, he is a great domino counter.

She can make him fail some shocks, but if he is made to fail he applies a pretty potent shock that hits a lot harder than the willpower can help.

You know who's better for Domino? Redskull, he NEVER gets critical failure.
Plus sp2 to sp1 is game over and you can take her double medium attacks on block to power burn her fully and damage also

Plus on defence, he's like wayyyy above Guardian.

Guardian does way more meta defenders than just Domino though. Photon, Bullseye, KM to name a few. Yes, Red Skull also does Bullseye, but Guardian should do it with a higher score.

ItsClobberinTime

Guardian

captain_rogers said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

captain_rogers said:

Shocker is the best attacker imo out of these 3. But he can be handled easily on defense unless the meta favours him.

If not shocker, I'll go red skull as he needs a counter otherwise it's a guaranteed loss for you.

Guardian is great on offense, but he is not a defensive threat, He is just a staller, unlike red skull.

Red Skull is a staller too, you don't necessarily lose health against him unless you're playing it risky he's just a tank with autoblock, same as Guardian. It's a tie imo, both are too good, and both should be in everyone's deck.

They are definitely not a tie in defense.

Guardian needs high sig to be as tanky as red skull, and you need to remove his armor (via nullify, armor break) or use auto block counter/unblockable attacks to do special attack damage. That's the only defensive ability he have.

While for red skull, He is very tanky at the start of fight even unduped, and his tankiness increases as the fight goes. He gains multiple stacks of armor which you can't nullify.

If you don't use a armor break champ, you cannot stun him eventually, and only rely on baiting heavies and specials for opening. Can't intercept as it's risky and you might hit his block.
And if you don't have a autoblock counter, you can't punish his sp1 with light and medium attacks, so the only openings are heavy baiting, which means you have to take a lot of blocked hits. And 7*s have huge block penetration.

In a pure defense pov, Red skull is wayyy higher than Guardian. Red skull is more than a tank with autoblock.

I don't disagree with this but the question was dual threat not defense only. Red Skull is a better defender, Guardian is a better attacker but Red Skull can be used on attack successfully and Guardian can be used on defense successfully too therefore it's a tie.

Ultragamer

Red Skull

It’s not close red skull can take just as many fights as guardian can on offense while having much better defense

ItsClobberinTime

Guardian

PT_99 said:

Glassback said:

I really rate guardian in BG, he is a great domino counter.

She can make him fail some shocks, but if he is made to fail he applies a pretty potent shock that hits a lot harder than the willpower can help.

You know who's better for Domino? Redskull, he NEVER gets critical failure.
Plus sp2 to sp1 is game over and you can take her double medium attacks on block to power burn her fully and damage also

Plus on defence, he's like wayyyy above Guardian.

Bro forgot energy resistance exists, and also forgot Guardian's rotation is essentially the same but quicker cause the sp2 is insta ko and he can parry all of Domino's basic attacks safely.

ItsClobberinTime

Guardian

Polygon said:

PT_99 said:

Glassback said:

I really rate guardian in BG, he is a great domino counter.

She can make him fail some shocks, but if he is made to fail he applies a pretty potent shock that hits a lot harder than the willpower can help.

You know who's better for Domino? Redskull, he NEVER gets critical failure.
Plus sp2 to sp1 is game over and you can take her double medium attacks on block to power burn her fully and damage also

Plus on defence, he's like wayyyy above Guardian.

Guardian does way more meta defenders than just Domino though. Photon, Bullseye, KM to name a few. Yes, Red Skull also does Bullseye, but Guardian should do it with a higher score.

+ Guardian is faster for basically all the matchups where Red Skull works, not only can he gain power faster the sp2 is instant death against anything that isn't shock immune and he can even take certain matchups like Bishop which Red Skull 100% can't, especially if you have a HB relic. I love using Red Skull on attack but he's not as fast as Guardian and he never will be.

Ultragamer

Red Skull

ItsClobberinTime said:

Polygon said:

PT_99 said:

Glassback said:

I really rate guardian in BG, he is a great domino counter.

She can make him fail some shocks, but if he is made to fail he applies a pretty potent shock that hits a lot harder than the willpower can help.

You know who's better for Domino? Redskull, he NEVER gets critical failure.
Plus sp2 to sp1 is game over and you can take her double medium attacks on block to power burn her fully and damage also

Plus on defence, he's like wayyyy above Guardian.

Guardian does way more meta defenders than just Domino though. Photon, Bullseye, KM to name a few. Yes, Red Skull also does Bullseye, but Guardian should do it with a higher score.

+ Guardian is faster for basically all the matchups where Red Skull works, not only can he gain power faster the sp2 is instant death against anything that isn't shock immune and he can even take certain matchups like Bishop which Red Skull 100% can't, especially if you have a HB relic. I love using Red Skull on attack but he's not as fast as Guardian and he never will be.

And guardian will never be red skull level of threat on defense which is more important since there’s better champs than guardian for those fights that are almost must have for bg decks like cgr

ItsClobberinTime

Guardian

Ultragamer said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

Polygon said:

PT_99 said:

Glassback said:

I really rate guardian in BG, he is a great domino counter.

She can make him fail some shocks, but if he is made to fail he applies a pretty potent shock that hits a lot harder than the willpower can help.

You know who's better for Domino? Redskull, he NEVER gets critical failure.
Plus sp2 to sp1 is game over and you can take her double medium attacks on block to power burn her fully and damage also

Plus on defence, he's like wayyyy above Guardian.

Guardian does way more meta defenders than just Domino though. Photon, Bullseye, KM to name a few. Yes, Red Skull also does Bullseye, but Guardian should do it with a higher score.

+ Guardian is faster for basically all the matchups where Red Skull works, not only can he gain power faster the sp2 is instant death against anything that isn't shock immune and he can even take certain matchups like Bishop which Red Skull 100% can't, especially if you have a HB relic. I love using Red Skull on attack but he's not as fast as Guardian and he never will be.

And guardian will never be red skull level of threat on defense which is more important since there’s better champs than guardian for those fights that are almost must have for bg decks like cgr

The post says best dual threat not better defender, I do however agree that Red Skull is a better defender which is why it's a tie for me.

Guardian is a top 5 tech, so you are just plain wrong there. There's a reason a lot of Celestial players have him in their decks, same as Red Skull, again it's a tie for me.

Real_Madrid_76_2

Guardian

Shocker- great attacker, mid defender

Red skull- annoying defender, great attacker. Can be used sometimes as a mutant counter in bgs

Guardian- with Max sig, easily the best defenders among these three. And easily the best nuke attacker among these three too. So much going on in his kit, he's just simply enjoyable can get u defensive kills unlike red skull, who just increases fight duration

BeastDad

Red Skull

Best overall

Jack2634

Red Skull

ngl, i find it hilarious domino's kit is so broken that able to shut her down is a massive bonus factor.
Skull works decently well against non shock immune champs too, and the man is an absolute unit on defense

Ultragamer

Red Skull

Real_Madrid_76_2 said:

Shocker- great attacker, mid defender

Red skull- annoying defender, great attacker. Can be used sometimes as a mutant counter in bgs

Guardian- with Max sig, easily the best defenders among these three. And easily the best nuke attacker among these three too. So much going on in his kit, he's just simply enjoyable can get u defensive kills unlike red skull, who just increases fight duration

Guardian best defender? He’s got way more counters than red skull and way less defensive threat the best thinking guardian got is auto block that can be removed if he doesn’t have a armor up which is easy to remove since he isn’t nullify, stagger, fate seal or armor break immune

smdam38

Red Skull is a gosh darned menace now.
Him and Sinister went from plastic straws in a turtles nose to garbage island.
They’re killing the environment.

All I’m saying is recycle folks.

jcphillips7

For what it's worth, I just took my Guardian to r3 over Red Skull a few days ago. The reason behind that is..well, he was duped (love to see the shiny stars!). And I had a r2 HB relic. And he was at the top options of someone I could use the 7* Arcade stones on. Annnnnd I wanted a Tech nuke and can't quite get Prowler to r5 yet, so Guardian won.

That said, Red Skull will absolutely be my next Tech r3, awakened or not.

Pikolu

Red Skull

Red skull is an amazing dual threat and is able to take on bullseye without bullseye ever using a special (or maybe just one special, idk)

Trek26

Red Skull

He isn't FAM but I stand by my answer.. honestly don't know why guardian got that many votes.. I never have trouble fighting him

Real_Madrid_76_2

Guardian

Ultragamer said:

Real_Madrid_76_2 said:

Shocker- great attacker, mid defender

Red skull- annoying defender, great attacker. Can be used sometimes as a mutant counter in bgs

Guardian- with Max sig, easily the best defenders among these three. And easily the best nuke attacker among these three too. So much going on in his kit, he's just simply enjoyable can get u defensive kills unlike red skull, who just increases fight duration

Guardian best defender? He’s got way more counters than red skull and way less defensive threat the best thinking guardian got is auto block that can be removed if he doesn’t have a armor up which is easy to remove since he isn’t nullify, stagger, fate seal or armor break immune

It's not about how many counters a champion has, it's about what's his potential. I have seen guardian as my clutch defender in bgs. In the 3rd round when mostly opponent remains with energy damage champs or not suitable attackers, he shines. He can easily get defensive kills or the opponent would barely deal damage till he has the Armor.
Red skull is a great defender, pretty annoying, but all he does is extend fight duration, i have never seen people die to a red skull but I have surely seen my guardian get kills bgs always

Emilia90

Real_Madrid_76_2 said:

Ultragamer said:

Real_Madrid_76_2 said:

Shocker- great attacker, mid defender

Red skull- annoying defender, great attacker. Can be used sometimes as a mutant counter in bgs

Guardian- with Max sig, easily the best defenders among these three. And easily the best nuke attacker among these three too. So much going on in his kit, he's just simply enjoyable can get u defensive kills unlike red skull, who just increases fight duration

Guardian best defender? He’s got way more counters than red skull and way less defensive threat the best thinking guardian got is auto block that can be removed if he doesn’t have a armor up which is easy to remove since he isn’t nullify, stagger, fate seal or armor break immune

It's not about how many counters a champion has, it's about what's his potential. I have seen guardian as my clutch defender in bgs. In the 3rd round when mostly opponent remains with energy damage champs or not suitable attackers, he shines. He can easily get defensive kills or the opponent would barely deal damage till he has the Armor.
Red skull is a great defender, pretty annoying, but all he does is extend fight duration, i have never seen people die to a red skull but I have surely seen my guardian get kills bgs always

RS does quite a bit of block damage + if you accidentally hit his block you’re cooked

captain_rogers

Red Skull

.

Real_Madrid_76_2 said:

Ultragamer said:

Real_Madrid_76_2 said:

Shocker- great attacker, mid defender

Red skull- annoying defender, great attacker. Can be used sometimes as a mutant counter in bgs

Guardian- with Max sig, easily the best defenders among these three. And easily the best nuke attacker among these three too. So much going on in his kit, he's just simply enjoyable can get u defensive kills unlike red skull, who just increases fight duration

Guardian best defender? He’s got way more counters than red skull and way less defensive threat the best thinking guardian got is auto block that can be removed if he doesn’t have a armor up which is easy to remove since he isn’t nullify, stagger, fate seal or armor break immune

It's not about how many counters a champion has, it's about what's his potential. I have seen guardian as my clutch defender in bgs. In the 3rd round when mostly opponent remains with energy damage champs or not suitable attackers, he shines. He can easily get defensive kills or the opponent would barely deal damage till he has the Armor.
Red skull is a great defender, pretty annoying, but all he does is extend fight duration, i have never seen people die to a red skull but I have surely seen my guardian get kills bgs always

That's just wrong. Without a counter, you have to take some good damage via block by red skull and also he stalls. Not to mention one single mistake and you lose 30% health.

Guardian is just a tank. His sp1 catch me off guard sometimes but I think that's a me issue 😂. Guardian may time out sometimes in bgs, But no way one die to him in defense unless it's their bad day.

Polygon

People seem to be undermining Guardians value on attack, this is Red Skulls best matchup (both are r3), and look at that speed. Red Skull can't do her that fast.


Even outside this matchup, the fact red skull uses shocks means hes not the best for most mutants (dust, bishop, storm px, havok).

Aside from Photon, Bullseye, KM , Guardian also works against Iceman because of energt resistance. Some said NTW might catch people on defense, but guess what Guardian shuts her down too with his projectile parry and non crits.

Red Skull may be the better defender but hes not the better attacker

Emilia90

Polygon said:

People seem to be undermining Guardians value on attack, this is Red Skulls best matchup (both are r3), and look at that speed. Red Skull can't do her that fast.


Even outside this matchup, the fact red skull uses shocks means hes not the best for most mutants (dust, bishop, storm px, havok).

Aside from Photon, Bullseye, KM , Guardian also works against Iceman because of energt resistance. Some said NTW might catch people on defense, but guess what Guardian shuts her down too with his projectile parry and non crits.

Red Skull may be the better defender but hes not the better attacker

I agree that guardian is the better attacker but my unduped r2 Skull can do r3 domino in like 45 seconds. I’m pretty sure a r3 skull who’s duped could match that time.

T-DeAdLY-J

Guardian better attacker, Red Skull better defender and Shocker is a great nuke for onslaught when there isn’t an armor up node.

ItsClobberinTime

Guardian

Emilia90 said:

Polygon said:

People seem to be undermining Guardians value on attack, this is Red Skulls best matchup (both are r3), and look at that speed. Red Skull can't do her that fast.


Even outside this matchup, the fact red skull uses shocks means hes not the best for most mutants (dust, bishop, storm px, havok).

Aside from Photon, Bullseye, KM , Guardian also works against Iceman because of energt resistance. Some said NTW might catch people on defense, but guess what Guardian shuts her down too with his projectile parry and non crits.

Red Skull may be the better defender but hes not the better attacker

I agree that guardian is the better attacker but my unduped r2 Skull can do r3 domino in like 45 seconds. I’m pretty sure a r3 skull who’s duped could match that time.

To be fair though a r2 Guardian could've done that r3 Domino in pretty much the same time 39 secs. When you have the HB relic he is just that busted, if the special doesn't kill the shock will finish the job within the next two seconds. That fight must've been so overkill lol.
It's a tie for me

smdam38

Trek26 said:

He isn't FAM but I stand by my answer.. honestly don't know why guardian got that many votes.. I never have trouble fighting him

I agree. Guardian can damage up. But on defence he’s twanky.
I’d rather fight a Guardian over a Nova.

ItsClobberinTime

Guardian

Trek26 said:

He isn't FAM but I stand by my answer.. honestly don't know why guardian got that many votes.. I never have trouble fighting him

Depends who you usually fight him with, if you ever get trapped by one without a someone who can either remove the armor, deal with autoblock of deal massive damage with basic attacks or sp3 only you will 100% timeout. He definitely has waaay more counters than Red Skull though, Red Skull is a lot better on defense but since op is asking for dual threat and Guardian is better than Red Skull on attack, that's why some are voting Guardian.

Ultragamer

Red Skull

Red skull op defense with good offense guardian very good offense but meh defense