Crossbones vs Mantis

Polygon

Who would you rate as the faster/more versatile BGs attacker, and who do you think benefits from the r3 more for strictly attack?

ItsClobberinTime

Mantis

There are only like 5-10 healthpools in the entire game that can survive that sp2 currently and it takes 30 seconds to get there so I'd say Mantis purely because of speed even in non-ideal situations like Onslaught or Sassy. I also think she's the better Photon counter overall cause she rarely gets debuffs on her in the first place so she rarely has to worry about pure light form.

captain_rogers

Mantis

Her playstyle is little tough but she's a beast if you can master her.

Polygon

ItsClobberinTime said:

There are only like 5-10 healthpools in the entire game that can survive that sp2 currently and it takes 30 seconds to get there so I'd say Mantis purely because of speed even in non-ideal situations like Onslaught or Sassy. I also think she's the better Photon counter overall cause she rarely gets debuffs on her in the first place so she rarely has to worry about pure light form.

If crossbones gets good RNG he can be one of the fastest attackers in the game though.

Magicsol

Crossbones

ItsClobberinTime said:

There are only like 5-10 healthpools in the entire game that can survive that sp2 currently and it takes 30 seconds to get there so I'd say Mantis purely because of speed even in non-ideal situations like Onslaught or Sassy. I also think she's the better Photon counter overall cause she rarely gets debuffs on her in the first place so she rarely has to worry about pure light form.

If Crossbones is decent sig photon doesn't even get to activate light form lmao

Chief_Wiggum

One depends on RNG for Furys, other depends on AI a bit.. or where nodes that debuffs doesn't stick due to conflictor or other debuff affecting situations. I have mantis at R3 and xbones at R2. Both does the job as Photon killer but depends on the situation. Current BG GC meta favours xbones, same as War meta. Mantis sort of depends on predicability, xbones does better than mantis when things are chaotic and can't have predicatable fights with ideal matchups.

Rohit_316

Does Mantis needs dupe ?? I have a 7 star but i am confused whether to rank 2 her or rank 5 Bullseye.

jcphillips7

Mantis

While I'd rather have an awakened Xbones as a r3, Mantis puts in phenomenal work as one of my r2s right now.

Speaking of her, how do most of you play Mantis? I try to do the light ending combo first and then keep shallow intercepting a few times (this can sometimes backfire and I get popped in the face) to build the Emotion Charges, then MLLLM to get them defensive, hit into block as much as possible. Then heavy charge into sp2.

IS there an "easier" method to doing her rotation, or is this pretty much what most of you all do as well?

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Chief_Wiggum

Rohit_316 said:

Does Mantis needs dupe ?? I have a 7 star but i am confused whether to rank 2 her or rank 5 Bullseye.

For damage .. no. her dupe is for debuff control via her tranquility strength when facing non science classes and able to pause tranquility.

Rohit_316

Chief_Wiggum said:

Rohit_316 said:

Does Mantis needs dupe ?? I have a 7 star but i am confused whether to rank 2 her or rank 5 Bullseye.

For damage .. no. her dupe is for debuff control via her tranquility strength when facing non science classes and able to pause tranquility.

So r2 her or rank 5 Bullseye ?

Chief_Wiggum

Rohit_316 said:

Chief_Wiggum said:

Rohit_316 said:

Does Mantis needs dupe ?? I have a 7 star but i am confused whether to rank 2 her or rank 5 Bullseye.

For damage .. no. her dupe is for debuff control via her tranquility strength when facing non science classes and able to pause tranquility.

So r2 her or rank 5 Bullseye ?

can't answer that.. both opposites.. one very good attacker and incredible defender. the other is an incredible attacker and decent defender. Its which one first.. the other follows

Rohit_316

Chief_Wiggum said:

Rohit_316 said:

Chief_Wiggum said:

Rohit_316 said:

Does Mantis needs dupe ?? I have a 7 star but i am confused whether to rank 2 her or rank 5 Bullseye.

For damage .. no. her dupe is for debuff control via her tranquility strength when facing non science classes and able to pause tranquility.

So r2 her or rank 5 Bullseye ?

can't answer that.. both opposites.. one very good attacker and incredible defender. the other is an incredible attacker and decent defender. Its which one first.. the other follows

Which one is who i still can't figure out 😂

ItsClobberinTime

Mantis

Magicsol said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

There are only like 5-10 healthpools in the entire game that can survive that sp2 currently and it takes 30 seconds to get there so I'd say Mantis purely because of speed even in non-ideal situations like Onslaught or Sassy. I also think she's the better Photon counter overall cause she rarely gets debuffs on her in the first place so she rarely has to worry about pure light form.

If Crossbones is decent sig photon doesn't even get to activate light form lmao

She still gains some charges initially, with Mantis she almost never gets them cause of the tranquilize shutting down the debuffs the whole fight.

ItsClobberinTime

Mantis

Polygon said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

There are only like 5-10 healthpools in the entire game that can survive that sp2 currently and it takes 30 seconds to get there so I'd say Mantis purely because of speed even in non-ideal situations like Onslaught or Sassy. I also think she's the better Photon counter overall cause she rarely gets debuffs on her in the first place so she rarely has to worry about pure light form.

If crossbones gets good RNG he can be one of the fastest attackers in the game though.

Mantis doesn't need good RNG to be fast and like I said, she can take a lot of matchups you wouldn't even consider optimal like Onslaught and Sassy.

ItsClobberinTime

Mantis

jcphillips7 said:

While I'd rather have an awakened Xbones as a r3, Mantis puts in phenomenal work as one of my r2s right now.

Speaking of her, how do most of you play Mantis? I try to do the light ending combo first and then keep shallow intercepting a few times (this can sometimes backfire and I get popped in the face) to build the Emotion Charges, then MLLLM to get them defensive, hit into block as much as possible. Then heavy charge into sp2.

IS there an "easier" method to doing her rotation, or is this pretty much what most of you all do as well?

Start with infuriate and three intercepts then do light ending and hit on block, easiest and safest way to build up to 20 mixed emotions in 10 secs.

EdisonLaw

Mantis

Mantis. However the real question is who's the better counter to Photon?

ItsClobberinTime

Mantis

EdisonLaw said:

Mantis. However the real question is who's the better counter to Photon?

CB unless sig 200 can still end up taking some block damage so Mantis

Polygon

ItsClobberinTime said:

Polygon said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

There are only like 5-10 healthpools in the entire game that can survive that sp2 currently and it takes 30 seconds to get there so I'd say Mantis purely because of speed even in non-ideal situations like Onslaught or Sassy. I also think she's the better Photon counter overall cause she rarely gets debuffs on her in the first place so she rarely has to worry about pure light form.

If crossbones gets good RNG he can be one of the fastest attackers in the game though.

Mantis doesn't need good RNG to be fast and like I said, she can take a lot of matchups you wouldn't even consider optimal like Onslaught and Sassy.

Trappy has a vid of xbones vs sassy, theres also some defenders he destroys that she just cant do like Thing.he also works on mutants like havok, bishop etc

Does she have downsides like if the AI is bad? I know she has a big infuriate but nowadays thats not much if you look at Titanias intimidate. Is it like hers where the AI always does the opposite of whats expected and throws specials after your special?

ItsClobberinTime

Mantis

Polygon said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

Polygon said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

There are only like 5-10 healthpools in the entire game that can survive that sp2 currently and it takes 30 seconds to get there so I'd say Mantis purely because of speed even in non-ideal situations like Onslaught or Sassy. I also think she's the better Photon counter overall cause she rarely gets debuffs on her in the first place so she rarely has to worry about pure light form.

If crossbones gets good RNG he can be one of the fastest attackers in the game though.

Mantis doesn't need good RNG to be fast and like I said, she can take a lot of matchups you wouldn't even consider optimal like Onslaught and Sassy.

Trappy has a vid of xbones vs sassy, theres also some defenders he destroys that she just cant do like Thing.he also works on mutants like havok, bishop etc

Does she have downsides like if the AI is bad? I know she has a big infuriate but nowadays thats not much if you look at Titanias intimidate. Is it like hers where the AI always does the opposite of whats expected and throws specials after your special?

He's slower than Mantis for Sassy and it's very risky cause of MD.
As for Bishop and Havok, she can kill both in a single sp2 as well and her playstyle and kit counter some of their abilities. Bishop you force him to consume prowess while you do the hits on block, Havok you're very unlikely to trigger a single detonation cause of tranquilize especially if she's awakened.

Ironically enough, I've never had bad AI with her. I use her and Adam consistently and I never get screwed over, I don't know if Mantis' infuriate and intimidate are just that strong or what but yeah AI always does exactly what I need them to do for me

Polygon

ItsClobberinTime said:

Polygon said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

There are only like 5-10 healthpools in the entire game that can survive that sp2 currently and it takes 30 seconds to get there so I'd say Mantis purely because of speed even in non-ideal situations like Onslaught or Sassy. I also think she's the better Photon counter overall cause she rarely gets debuffs on her in the first place so she rarely has to worry about pure light form.

If crossbones gets good RNG he can be one of the fastest attackers in the game though.

Mantis doesn't need good RNG to be fast and like I said, she can take a lot of matchups you wouldn't even consider optimal like Onslaught and Sassy.

Yeah thats true but then again arent there other attackers that people widely consider as good , but that are also reliant on RNG? Like Hulk

in his case its both for the sp2 critting but also the Fury RNG (which sometimes makes him need to go for sp3 instead of sp2 which stalls the fight to a longer time)

ItsClobberinTime

Mantis

Polygon said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

Polygon said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

There are only like 5-10 healthpools in the entire game that can survive that sp2 currently and it takes 30 seconds to get there so I'd say Mantis purely because of speed even in non-ideal situations like Onslaught or Sassy. I also think she's the better Photon counter overall cause she rarely gets debuffs on her in the first place so she rarely has to worry about pure light form.

If crossbones gets good RNG he can be one of the fastest attackers in the game though.

Mantis doesn't need good RNG to be fast and like I said, she can take a lot of matchups you wouldn't even consider optimal like Onslaught and Sassy.

Yeah thats true but then again arent there other attackers that people widely consider as good , but that are also reliant on RNG? Like Hulk

in his case its both for the sp2 critting but also the Fury RNG (which sometimes makes him need to go for sp3 instead of sp2 which stalls the fight to a longer time)

There are yeah, I'm not saying CB is bad cause he relies on RNG btw it's just that I consider Mantis not only easier to use but faster 90% of the time cause there's no RNG involved. I still think CB is top 10 and if I had him I'd r2 him too though

Polygon

ItsClobberinTime said:

Polygon said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

Polygon said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

There are only like 5-10 healthpools in the entire game that can survive that sp2 currently and it takes 30 seconds to get there so I'd say Mantis purely because of speed even in non-ideal situations like Onslaught or Sassy. I also think she's the better Photon counter overall cause she rarely gets debuffs on her in the first place so she rarely has to worry about pure light form.

If crossbones gets good RNG he can be one of the fastest attackers in the game though.

Mantis doesn't need good RNG to be fast and like I said, she can take a lot of matchups you wouldn't even consider optimal like Onslaught and Sassy.

Yeah thats true but then again arent there other attackers that people widely consider as good , but that are also reliant on RNG? Like Hulk

in his case its both for the sp2 critting but also the Fury RNG (which sometimes makes him need to go for sp3 instead of sp2 which stalls the fight to a longer time)

There are yeah, I'm not saying CB is bad cause he relies on RNG btw it's just that I consider Mantis not only easier to use but faster 90% of the time cause there's no RNG involved. I still think CB is top 10 and if I had him I'd r2 him too though

Yeah i get you, shes also not affected by buffs being shut down so another reason to r3 her over xbones.

I had a feeling she had more "reach" but wasnt sure if shed benefit from rank 3 as much as him, but now that i think about it, champs like her that "nuke" in 1 sp2 would benefit a lot from the rank 3 because if that sp2 doesnt finish them off, the fight ends up getting stalled by a lot , whereas xbones just needs a few extra hits to finish the fight.

Sunspot is another example of the being stalled if sp2 doesnt finish them so I'd probably put him in a similar bracket of high benefit as her.

SecondSkriller

Mantis

Crossbones the most unreliable champ that people are hyping up recently. His stressful playstyle alone makes me stay away from him. Even so, he’s decent, but not better than someone who should literally be in everyone’s bg deck.

EdisonLaw

Mantis

SecondSkriller said:

Crossbones the most unreliable champ that people are hyping up recently. His stressful playstyle alone makes me stay away from him. Even so, he’s decent, but not better than someone who should literally be in everyone’s bg deck.

Everyone has their preferences.

Ultragamer

Crossbones

Love my r3 mantis but this guy can handle more fights and do fights just as fast as her. One thing I do regret is r3ing her cause she still killing the defenders in the same amount of time as r2 it’s just a health increase.

ItsClobberinTime

Mantis

Polygon said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

Polygon said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

Polygon said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

There are only like 5-10 healthpools in the entire game that can survive that sp2 currently and it takes 30 seconds to get there so I'd say Mantis purely because of speed even in non-ideal situations like Onslaught or Sassy. I also think she's the better Photon counter overall cause she rarely gets debuffs on her in the first place so she rarely has to worry about pure light form.

If crossbones gets good RNG he can be one of the fastest attackers in the game though.

Mantis doesn't need good RNG to be fast and like I said, she can take a lot of matchups you wouldn't even consider optimal like Onslaught and Sassy.

Yeah thats true but then again arent there other attackers that people widely consider as good , but that are also reliant on RNG? Like Hulk

in his case its both for the sp2 critting but also the Fury RNG (which sometimes makes him need to go for sp3 instead of sp2 which stalls the fight to a longer time)

There are yeah, I'm not saying CB is bad cause he relies on RNG btw it's just that I consider Mantis not only easier to use but faster 90% of the time cause there's no RNG involved. I still think CB is top 10 and if I had him I'd r2 him too though

Yeah i get you, shes also not affected by buffs being shut down so another reason to r3 her over xbones.

I had a feeling she had more "reach" but wasnt sure if shed benefit from rank 3 as much as him, but now that i think about it, champs like her that "nuke" in 1 sp2 would benefit a lot from the rank 3 because if that sp2 doesnt finish them off, the fight ends up getting stalled by a lot , whereas xbones just needs a few extra hits to finish the fight.

Sunspot is another example of the being stalled if sp2 doesnt finish them so I'd probably put him in a similar bracket of high benefit as her.

Exactly, the buffs can hinder CB a lot against mystics. Mantis has almost zero issues against mystics like Sassy Mangog Doom Mephisto or Dragon Man, CB you have to time everything perfectly or you could accidentally end up eating sp3. Overall Mantis can handle more matchups than CB, the only matchups where I see CB being better are Thing and Serpent.

She definitely benefits from that r3, r2 will usually end fights in a single sp2 but when you have her r3 she can easily deal 475k damage in a single sp2 rotation (just tried it against WS with mine) which takes 40 secs max and it also allows her to take matchups that aren't exactly ideal (such as matchups with crit resistance or a ton of armor). For example, a r3 Mantis can probably do a r6 Red Skull or Havok, a r2 however highly unlikely.

Also yes with Mantis you always want the first sp2 to kill cause each sp2 rotation always takes 30 secs or longer but never less, CB if you loss a few furies you can just drop sp1 throw a few combos and you're good.

EdisonLaw

Mantis

ItsClobberinTime said:

Polygon said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

Polygon said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

Polygon said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

There are only like 5-10 healthpools in the entire game that can survive that sp2 currently and it takes 30 seconds to get there so I'd say Mantis purely because of speed even in non-ideal situations like Onslaught or Sassy. I also think she's the better Photon counter overall cause she rarely gets debuffs on her in the first place so she rarely has to worry about pure light form.

If crossbones gets good RNG he can be one of the fastest attackers in the game though.

Mantis doesn't need good RNG to be fast and like I said, she can take a lot of matchups you wouldn't even consider optimal like Onslaught and Sassy.

Yeah thats true but then again arent there other attackers that people widely consider as good , but that are also reliant on RNG? Like Hulk

in his case its both for the sp2 critting but also the Fury RNG (which sometimes makes him need to go for sp3 instead of sp2 which stalls the fight to a longer time)

There are yeah, I'm not saying CB is bad cause he relies on RNG btw it's just that I consider Mantis not only easier to use but faster 90% of the time cause there's no RNG involved. I still think CB is top 10 and if I had him I'd r2 him too though

Yeah i get you, shes also not affected by buffs being shut down so another reason to r3 her over xbones.

I had a feeling she had more "reach" but wasnt sure if shed benefit from rank 3 as much as him, but now that i think about it, champs like her that "nuke" in 1 sp2 would benefit a lot from the rank 3 because if that sp2 doesnt finish them off, the fight ends up getting stalled by a lot , whereas xbones just needs a few extra hits to finish the fight.

Sunspot is another example of the being stalled if sp2 doesnt finish them so I'd probably put him in a similar bracket of high benefit as her.

Exactly, the buffs can hinder CB a lot against mystics. Mantis has almost zero issues against mystics like Sassy Mangog Doom Mephisto or Dragon Man, CB you have to time everything perfectly or you could accidentally end up eating sp3. Overall Mantis can handle more matchups than CB, the only matchups where I see CB being better are Thing and Serpent.

She definitely benefits from that r3, r2 will usually end fights in a single sp2 but when you have her r3 she can easily deal 475k damage in a single sp2 rotation (just tried it against WS with mine) which takes 40 secs max and it also allows her to take matchups that aren't exactly ideal (such as matchups with crit resistance or a ton of armor). For example, a r3 Mantis can probably do a r6 Red Skull or Havok, a r2 however highly unlikely.

Also yes with Mantis you always want the first sp2 to kill cause each sp2 rotation always takes 30 secs or longer but never less, CB if you loss a few furies you can just drop sp1 throw a few combos and you're good.

How does Crossbones counter Serpent?

ItsClobberinTime

Mantis

EdisonLaw said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

Polygon said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

Polygon said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

Polygon said:

ItsClobberinTime said:

There are only like 5-10 healthpools in the entire game that can survive that sp2 currently and it takes 30 seconds to get there so I'd say Mantis purely because of speed even in non-ideal situations like Onslaught or Sassy. I also think she's the better Photon counter overall cause she rarely gets debuffs on her in the first place so she rarely has to worry about pure light form.

If crossbones gets good RNG he can be one of the fastest attackers in the game though.

Mantis doesn't need good RNG to be fast and like I said, she can take a lot of matchups you wouldn't even consider optimal like Onslaught and Sassy.

Yeah thats true but then again arent there other attackers that people widely consider as good , but that are also reliant on RNG? Like Hulk

in his case its both for the sp2 critting but also the Fury RNG (which sometimes makes him need to go for sp3 instead of sp2 which stalls the fight to a longer time)

There are yeah, I'm not saying CB is bad cause he relies on RNG btw it's just that I consider Mantis not only easier to use but faster 90% of the time cause there's no RNG involved. I still think CB is top 10 and if I had him I'd r2 him too though

Yeah i get you, shes also not affected by buffs being shut down so another reason to r3 her over xbones.

I had a feeling she had more "reach" but wasnt sure if shed benefit from rank 3 as much as him, but now that i think about it, champs like her that "nuke" in 1 sp2 would benefit a lot from the rank 3 because if that sp2 doesnt finish them off, the fight ends up getting stalled by a lot , whereas xbones just needs a few extra hits to finish the fight.

Sunspot is another example of the being stalled if sp2 doesnt finish them so I'd probably put him in a similar bracket of high benefit as her.

Exactly, the buffs can hinder CB a lot against mystics. Mantis has almost zero issues against mystics like Sassy Mangog Doom Mephisto or Dragon Man, CB you have to time everything perfectly or you could accidentally end up eating sp3. Overall Mantis can handle more matchups than CB, the only matchups where I see CB being better are Thing and Serpent.

She definitely benefits from that r3, r2 will usually end fights in a single sp2 but when you have her r3 she can easily deal 475k damage in a single sp2 rotation (just tried it against WS with mine) which takes 40 secs max and it also allows her to take matchups that aren't exactly ideal (such as matchups with crit resistance or a ton of armor). For example, a r3 Mantis can probably do a r6 Red Skull or Havok, a r2 however highly unlikely.

Also yes with Mantis you always want the first sp2 to kill cause each sp2 rotation always takes 30 secs or longer but never less, CB if you loss a few furies you can just drop sp1 throw a few combos and you're good.

How does Crossbones counter Serpent?

He can prevent the death immunity buff completely with the furies and his damage isn't really lowered by Serpent's dread or any other abilities.

Polygon

Ultragamer said:

Love my r3 mantis but this guy can handle more fights and do fights just as fast as her. One thing I do regret is r3ing her cause she still killing the defenders in the same amount of time as r2 it’s just a health increase.

@Ultragamer the r3 will help for when she gets matched against r3 defenders. For example , someone told me their r2 mantis doesnt one shot an r3 photon in 1 sp2

ItsClobberinTime

Mantis

Polygon said:

Ultragamer said:

Love my r3 mantis but this guy can handle more fights and do fights just as fast as her. One thing I do regret is r3ing her cause she still killing the defenders in the same amount of time as r2 it’s just a health increase.

@Ultragamer the r3 will help for when she gets matched against r3 defenders. For example , someone told me their r2 mantis doesnt one shot an r3 photon in 1 sp2

Exactly + allows her to take tanky r6 defenders she normally wouldn't be able to.
Although she can definitely ko r3 Photons with one sp2 at r2, you just have to do the relic trick and make sure mixed emotions are maxed