Crossbones vs Mantis

Who would you rate as the faster/more versatile BGs attacker, and who do you think benefits from the r3 more for strictly attack?

Comments

Ultragamer

Love my r3 mantis but this guy can handle more fights and do fights just as fast as her. One thing I do regret is r3ing her cause she still killing the defenders in the same amount of time as r2 it’s just a health increase.
@Ultragamer the r3 will help for when she gets matched against r3 defenders. For example , someone told me their r2 mantis doesnt one shot an r3 photon in 1 sp2

I’m over killing r3s by about 50k so it didn’t help

ItsClobberinTime

Love my r3 mantis but this guy can handle more fights and do fights just as fast as her. One thing I do regret is r3ing her cause she still killing the defenders in the same amount of time as r2 it’s just a health increase.
@Ultragamer the r3 will help for when she gets matched against r3 defenders. For example , someone told me their r2 mantis doesnt one shot an r3 photon in 1 sp2
I’m over killing r3s by about 50k so it didn’t help

She can't do certain r3s like Onslaught and Sassy in one sp2 if she's r2 though, r3ing her helps a lot against those r3s.

Polygon

Love my r3 mantis but this guy can handle more fights and do fights just as fast as her. One thing I do regret is r3ing her cause she still killing the defenders in the same amount of time as r2 it’s just a health increase.
@Ultragamer the r3 will help for when she gets matched against r3 defenders. For example , someone told me their r2 mantis doesnt one shot an r3 photon in 1 sp2
Exactly + allows her to take tanky r6 defenders she normally wouldn't be able to.
Although she can definitely ko r3 Photons with one sp2 at r2, you just have to do the relic trick and make sure mixed emotions are maxed

Didnt see the bottom bit till now, so wouldn't she be a faster attacker than even Sunspot since he needs to do sp1 before the sp2, whereas she just needs an sp2?

Ultragamer

Love my r3 mantis but this guy can handle more fights and do fights just as fast as her. One thing I do regret is r3ing her cause she still killing the defenders in the same amount of time as r2 it’s just a health increase.
@Ultragamer the r3 will help for when she gets matched against r3 defenders. For example , someone told me their r2 mantis doesnt one shot an r3 photon in 1 sp2
Exactly + allows her to take tanky r6 defenders she normally wouldn't be able to.
Although she can definitely ko r3 Photons with one sp2 at r2, you just have to do the relic trick and make sure mixed emotions are maxed
Didnt see the bottom bit till now, so wouldn't she be a faster attacker than even Sunspot since he needs to do sp1 before the sp2, whereas she just needs an sp2?

Sunspot has a way to gain more power by removing his incinerate plus she has to gain her charges which takes time

Magrailothos

Hey guys, loving this conversation, since I'm literally also deciding between Crossbones and Mantis.

However, I've also got Chee'ilth in the mix - what are people's thoughts on her, and how does she compare to the others?

Looking forward to your thoughts - thanks 👍

Polygon

Hey guys, loving this conversation, since I'm literally also deciding between Crossbones and Mantis.

However, I've also got Chee'ilth in the mix - what are people's thoughts on her, and how does she compare to the others?

Looking forward to your thoughts - thanks 👍

I think Mantis is safest for you since you already have Attuma at r3 who's a far better defender than Cheel anyway

ToniXD_16

Crossbones the most underrated skill champ rn hes miles better

ItsClobberinTime

Love my r3 mantis but this guy can handle more fights and do fights just as fast as her. One thing I do regret is r3ing her cause she still killing the defenders in the same amount of time as r2 it’s just a health increase.
@Ultragamer the r3 will help for when she gets matched against r3 defenders. For example , someone told me their r2 mantis doesnt one shot an r3 photon in 1 sp2
Exactly + allows her to take tanky r6 defenders she normally wouldn't be able to.
Although she can definitely ko r3 Photons with one sp2 at r2, you just have to do the relic trick and make sure mixed emotions are maxed
Didnt see the bottom bit till now, so wouldn't she be a faster attacker than even Sunspot since he needs to do sp1 before the sp2, whereas she just needs an sp2?

Probably not cause Sunspot gains power faster and he can basically be done in 25 secs because of the power gain, I've even seen r3s do fights faster than CGR because they go straight for sp2, no sp1. Mantis gets a bit slowed down by the hitting on block thing, however she's still faster than CB in general and can easily put up 30 sec fights even against champs she should suck against like Onslaught.

ItsClobberinTime

Hey guys, loving this conversation, since I'm literally also deciding between Crossbones and Mantis.

However, I've also got Chee'ilth in the mix - what are people's thoughts on her, and how does she compare to the others?

Looking forward to your thoughts - thanks 👍

Unfortunately Chee'ilth is a ramp up champ so if you're looking for a BGs rank up she's easily the worst there, I'd still go Mantis personally. Chee'ilth isn't bad but she isn't 30-40 secs fast like the other two

Azdef

Is Mantis a faster nuke than Shang though?

ItsClobberinTime

Is Mantis a faster nuke than Shang though?

Don't have a r3 Shang so I don't know

Emilia90

I love CB and think he’s super underrated but Mantis wins this. I haven’t had many problems playing her even with the stupid AI and while CB can cover some matchups that Mantis isn’t as good for (Serpent) I think she’s better overall and less stressful to play

Polygon

There are only like 5-10 healthpools in the entire game that can survive that sp2 currently and it takes 30 seconds to get there so I'd say Mantis purely because of speed even in non-ideal situations like Onslaught or Sassy. I also think she's the better Photon counter overall cause she rarely gets debuffs on her in the first place so she rarely has to worry about pure light form.
If crossbones gets good RNG he can be one of the fastest attackers in the game though.
Mantis doesn't need good RNG to be fast and like I said, she can take a lot of matchups you wouldn't even consider optimal like Onslaught and Sassy.
Yeah thats true but then again arent there other attackers that people widely consider as good , but that are also reliant on RNG? Like Hulk

in his case its both for the sp2 critting but also the Fury RNG (which sometimes makes him need to go for sp3 instead of sp2 which stalls the fight to a longer time)
There are yeah, I'm not saying CB is bad cause he relies on RNG btw it's just that I consider Mantis not only easier to use but faster 90% of the time cause there's no RNG involved. I still think CB is top 10 and if I had him I'd r2 him too though
Yeah i get you, shes also not affected by buffs being shut down so another reason to r3 her over xbones.

I had a feeling she had more "reach" but wasnt sure if shed benefit from rank 3 as much as him, but now that i think about it, champs like her that "nuke" in 1 sp2 would benefit a lot from the rank 3 because if that sp2 doesnt finish them off, the fight ends up getting stalled by a lot , whereas xbones just needs a few extra hits to finish the fight.

Sunspot is another example of the being stalled if sp2 doesnt finish them so I'd probably put him in a similar bracket of high benefit as her.
Exactly, the buffs can hinder CB a lot against mystics. Mantis has almost zero issues against mystics like Sassy Mangog Doom Mephisto or Dragon Man, CB you have to time everything perfectly or you could accidentally end up eating sp3. Overall Mantis can handle more matchups than CB, the only matchups where I see CB being better are Thing and Serpent.

I take back what i said after getting a clean 1 shot on the AW Showcase Void fight. I know mantis can take him too, but this fight had 2 weakness crossbones has

1) Void is a villain
2) the node punishes buffs (power snack)

But crossbones did not not care, he just mauled his way through him and hes only r2 sig 20. People know he's a damage powerhouse but forget that he has a unique but very useful part of his kit for AAR. The power stings never even came on me.

Crossbones is on a different level ngl. The one thing i wish is that more defenders in BGs were heros (though I'm sure it doesnt make that much of a difference)

ItsClobberinTime

There are only like 5-10 healthpools in the entire game that can survive that sp2 currently and it takes 30 seconds to get there so I'd say Mantis purely because of speed even in non-ideal situations like Onslaught or Sassy. I also think she's the better Photon counter overall cause she rarely gets debuffs on her in the first place so she rarely has to worry about pure light form.
If crossbones gets good RNG he can be one of the fastest attackers in the game though.
Mantis doesn't need good RNG to be fast and like I said, she can take a lot of matchups you wouldn't even consider optimal like Onslaught and Sassy.
Yeah thats true but then again arent there other attackers that people widely consider as good , but that are also reliant on RNG? Like Hulk

in his case its both for the sp2 critting but also the Fury RNG (which sometimes makes him need to go for sp3 instead of sp2 which stalls the fight to a longer time)
There are yeah, I'm not saying CB is bad cause he relies on RNG btw it's just that I consider Mantis not only easier to use but faster 90% of the time cause there's no RNG involved. I still think CB is top 10 and if I had him I'd r2 him too though
Yeah i get you, shes also not affected by buffs being shut down so another reason to r3 her over xbones.

I had a feeling she had more "reach" but wasnt sure if shed benefit from rank 3 as much as him, but now that i think about it, champs like her that "nuke" in 1 sp2 would benefit a lot from the rank 3 because if that sp2 doesnt finish them off, the fight ends up getting stalled by a lot , whereas xbones just needs a few extra hits to finish the fight.

Sunspot is another example of the being stalled if sp2 doesnt finish them so I'd probably put him in a similar bracket of high benefit as her.
Exactly, the buffs can hinder CB a lot against mystics. Mantis has almost zero issues against mystics like Sassy Mangog Doom Mephisto or Dragon Man, CB you have to time everything perfectly or you could accidentally end up eating sp3. Overall Mantis can handle more matchups than CB, the only matchups where I see CB being better are Thing and Serpent.

I take back what i said after getting a clean 1 shot on the AW Showcase Void fight. I know mantis can take him too, but this fight had 2 weakness crossbones has

1) Void is a villain
2) the node punishes buffs (power snack)

But crossbones did not not care, he just mauled his way through him and hes only r2 sig 20. People know he's a damage powerhouse but forget that he has a unique but very useful part of his kit for AAR. The power stings never even came on me.

Crossbones is on a different level ngl. The one thing i wish is that more defenders in BGs were heros (though I'm sure it doesnt make that much of a difference)

Ehhh depends, I wouldn't say he's on a different level because again he can't take some of the meta defenders Mantis can take and the ones he can (other than Serpent and Thing) he's either slower or harder to use than Mantis.

As for the Void fight, my Mantis nuked in one sp2, less than 30 secs. I'm not saying CB can't do it but it's not as easy and straightforward as with Mantis.

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Jack2634

crossbones more versatile and mantis needs r3 more imo. At high sigs xbones is just deadly and can handle lots of matches.
Mantis really need r3 upgrades, since r3 7 star are more common nowadays and r2 7 star mantis most of the time won't one shot the opponent with sp2 anymore so you need 2 sp2 with her.

Jack2634

Love my r3 mantis but this guy can handle more fights and do fights just as fast as her. One thing I do regret is r3ing her cause she still killing the defenders in the same amount of time as r2 it’s just a health increase.
@Ultragamer the r3 will help for when she gets matched against r3 defenders. For example , someone told me their r2 mantis doesnt one shot an r3 photon in 1 sp2
Exactly + allows her to take tanky r6 defenders she normally wouldn't be able to.
Although she can definitely ko r3 Photons with one sp2 at r2, you just have to do the relic trick and make sure mixed emotions are maxed

r3 photon had like 340k ish hp most of the time, often after i threw sp2 with 7r2 she had like 15% hp left. I did use sp2 at 10 furies and 2 cruelties though, so what did i do wrong there ?

Wu_Bangerz23

There are only like 5-10 healthpools in the entire game that can survive that sp2 currently and it takes 30 seconds to get there so I'd say Mantis purely because of speed even in non-ideal situations like Onslaught or Sassy. I also think she's the better Photon counter overall cause she rarely gets debuffs on her in the first place so she rarely has to worry about pure light form.

Couldn't have said it better which leads me to the 2nd part.....I'd rank 3 CB because he can use the boost more IMO....a r3 Mantis in BG is beyond overkill. My r2 is the only champ in my entire roster (non science) that can one shot (sp2) a fully ranked and sigd absman and it's so satisfying lol. I do understand that r3, r4-5 eventually you might want that overkill.... But today is prob do cb

Wu_Bangerz23

Love my r3 mantis but this guy can handle more fights and do fights just as fast as her. One thing I do regret is r3ing her cause she still killing the defenders in the same amount of time as r2 it’s just a health increase.
@Ultragamer the r3 will help for when she gets matched against r3 defenders. For example , someone told me their r2 mantis doesnt one shot an r3 photon in 1 sp2
Exactly + allows her to take tanky r6 defenders she normally wouldn't be able to.
Although she can definitely ko r3 Photons with one sp2 at r2, you just have to do the relic trick and make sure mixed emotions are maxed
r3 photon had like 340k ish hp most of the time, often after i threw sp2 with 7r2 she had like 15% hp left. I did use sp2 at 10 furies and 2 cruelties though, so what did i do wrong there ?

Valk relic?? Get that extra dmg fury ? I might be wrong but I don't think anyone has survived a sp2 in BG as long as I do the relic trick/have all the emotions furies etc ... Maybe I've been lucky

pseudosane

Crossbones is reliable and counters way more matchups.
mantis infuriate and intimidate are less reliable and toss of a coin due to ai issues.

EdisonLaw

Crossbones is reliable and counters way more matchups.
mantis infuriate and intimidate are less reliable and toss of a coin due to ai issues.

At the same time, Crossbones relies on a bit of rng while Mantis doesn’t rely on it as much

pseudosane

Crossbones is reliable and counters way more matchups.
mantis infuriate and intimidate are less reliable and toss of a coin due to ai issues.
At the same time, Crossbones relies on a bit of rng while Mantis doesn’t rely on it as much

I disagree. Slap the BW relic and the RNG aspect is minimized. However, intimidate and infuriate working as intended is more RNG than anything else.

EdisonLaw

Crossbones is reliable and counters way more matchups.
mantis infuriate and intimidate are less reliable and toss of a coin due to ai issues.
At the same time, Crossbones relies on a bit of rng while Mantis doesn’t rely on it as much
I disagree. Slap the BW relic and the RNG aspect is minimized. However, intimidate and infuriate working as intended is more RNG than anything else.

True that relic is a game changer not only for Xbones but Black Cat as well

Kingering_King

Shang better tho

ItsClobberinTime

Love my r3 mantis but this guy can handle more fights and do fights just as fast as her. One thing I do regret is r3ing her cause she still killing the defenders in the same amount of time as r2 it’s just a health increase.
@Ultragamer the r3 will help for when she gets matched against r3 defenders. For example , someone told me their r2 mantis doesnt one shot an r3 photon in 1 sp2
Exactly + allows her to take tanky r6 defenders she normally wouldn't be able to.
Although she can definitely ko r3 Photons with one sp2 at r2, you just have to do the relic trick and make sure mixed emotions are maxed
r3 photon had like 340k ish hp most of the time, often after i threw sp2 with 7r2 she had like 15% hp left. I did use sp2 at 10 furies and 2 cruelties though, so what did i do wrong there ?

You have to do the relic trick, you charge heavy for the ten furies let the first hit of the heavy connect, drop relic, charge heavy and let go immediately for the first hit again then sp2 immediately. You usually get 30k-40k extra damage from the relic hits just by using that trick.

Polygon

Crossbones is reliable and counters way more matchups.
mantis infuriate and intimidate are less reliable and toss of a coin due to ai issues.
At the same time, Crossbones relies on a bit of rng while Mantis doesn’t rely on it as much
I disagree. Slap the BW relic and the RNG aspect is minimized. However, intimidate and infuriate working as intended is more RNG than anything else.

Interesting point, this would make his biggest issue less of a problem. Do you have screenshots of him in BGs? Im curious if theres any matchups I'm not aware he can do. With the BW relic he might be at minimum on Mantis 's level.

Jack2634

Love my r3 mantis but this guy can handle more fights and do fights just as fast as her. One thing I do regret is r3ing her cause she still killing the defenders in the same amount of time as r2 it’s just a health increase.
@Ultragamer the r3 will help for when she gets matched against r3 defenders. For example , someone told me their r2 mantis doesnt one shot an r3 photon in 1 sp2
Exactly + allows her to take tanky r6 defenders she normally wouldn't be able to.
Although she can definitely ko r3 Photons with one sp2 at r2, you just have to do the relic trick and make sure mixed emotions are maxed
r3 photon had like 340k ish hp most of the time, often after i threw sp2 with 7r2 she had like 15% hp left. I did use sp2 at 10 furies and 2 cruelties though, so what did i do wrong there ?
You have to do the relic trick, you charge heavy for the ten furies let the first hit of the heavy connect, drop relic, charge heavy and let go immediately for the first hit again then sp2 immediately. You usually get 30k-40k extra damage from the relic hits just by using that trick.

damn that's actually big brain time @ItsClobberinTime . Thanks for the cool trick mate

KnightOfTheRealm

My r2 Mantis deals more than enough damage off the sp2 to take out r3 photons. She's by far the best counter in the game against photon, guaranteed to be a safe and <30 second fight. She can also take out any defender in the game except a select few in 30-40 seconds. One of the best BG attackers in the game.

EdisonLaw

My r2 Mantis deals more than enough damage off the sp2 to take out r3 photons. She's by far the best counter in the game against photon, guaranteed to be a safe and <30 second fight. She can also take out any defender in the game except a select few in 30-40 seconds. One of the best BG attackers in the game.</blockquote>

And she can take un ideal matchups as well such as Onslaught

jdschw

I just don't understand what I'm missing about mantis. I just tested her (7r1) in eq against Valkyrie. Got all the way to 20 mixed emotions, charged a heavy for 4s, hit the first 2 hits of the heavy, canceled into sp2...and did 100k damage. It wasn't a one-shot -- not even close. Maybe half a health bar. But i think i did everything right.

Then i tried to repeat it on Odin, and got light intercepted right away while he had infuriate, and lost almost my entire health bar.

Shang Chi seems a lot easier than this. Just MLLLM->MLM->H, repeat once, SP2, win.