The issue is if he gets nerfed won't it affect his offensive capabilities? Because this is quite a slippery slope. A tune up on attack and reduction un defense would be fair game.
Not if they simply give him less dread charges on defense like I suggested, since he specifically starts with 3 on defense and one on attack. Thankfully due to the way serpent is designed there’s a couple ways to change him on defense without changing him on attack
The issue is if he gets nerfed won't it affect his offensive capabilities? Because this is quite a slippery slope. A tune up on attack and reduction un defense would be fair game.
Maybe if they decide to reduce his damage altogether, but that would probably make him worse
I would personally change two things: 1. Remove the dread mechanics completely and replace it with something else, the 60% reduction in burst damage and crit penetration is absolutely ridiculous. If they don't want to remove it though then at the very least make it so he only starts with one dread that way it's just 20% reduction. 2. Remove the ridiculous power gain he gets while the death immunity buff is active.
Ironically enough I don't have an issue with the block damage cause if you play it right you can be knocking him down against the wall constantly with some champs, my main issues are those two mechanics. One straight up prevents a ton of champs from working, and the other one causes you to eat an sp3 if AI decides to be a jerk. With the first change you'd be able to use some champs like Red Goat, Ham, Scorpion and Rintrah effectively which is my #1 issue. Not only is his kit full of bs, you have very few options and even the ones that work, still can't nuke.
It’s very unlikely they will remove or replace mechanics that a champ already has, this is rebalancing, not a rework. When Gladiator got rebalanced, they didn’t remove any of his abilities
I would personally change two things: 1. Remove the dread mechanics completely and replace it with something else, the 60% reduction in burst damage and crit penetration is absolutely ridiculous. If they don't want to remove it though then at the very least make it so he only starts with one dread that way it's just 20% reduction. 2. Remove the ridiculous power gain he gets while the death immunity buff is active.
Ironically enough I don't have an issue with the block damage cause if you play it right you can be knocking him down against the wall constantly with some champs, my main issues are those two mechanics. One straight up prevents a ton of champs from working, and the other one causes you to eat an sp3 if AI decides to be a jerk. With the first change you'd be able to use some champs like Red Goat, Ham, Scorpion and Rintrah effectively which is my #1 issue. Not only is his kit full of bs, you have very few options and even the ones that work, still can't nuke.
It’s very unlikely they remove big mechanics that a champ already has, this is rebalancing, not a rework. When Gladiator got rebalanced, they didn’t remove any of his abilities
1. They're no longer doing buffs and nerfs every month, they have more than enough time to do so. 2. Gladiator wasn't op or straight up trash, he was mid. He didn't need a lot of changes to be in a healthy state, Serpent is absolutely busted on another level and needs big changes to be in a healthy state.
I would personally change two things: 1. Remove the dread mechanics completely and replace it with something else, the 60% reduction in burst damage and crit penetration is absolutely ridiculous. If they don't want to remove it though then at the very least make it so he only starts with one dread that way it's just 20% reduction. 2. Remove the ridiculous power gain he gets while the death immunity buff is active.
Ironically enough I don't have an issue with the block damage cause if you play it right you can be knocking him down against the wall constantly with some champs, my main issues are those two mechanics. One straight up prevents a ton of champs from working, and the other one causes you to eat an sp3 if AI decides to be a jerk. With the first change you'd be able to use some champs like Red Goat, Ham, Scorpion and Rintrah effectively which is my #1 issue. Not only is his kit full of bs, you have very few options and even the ones that work, still can't nuke.
It’s very unlikely they remove big mechanics that a champ already has, this is rebalancing, not a rework. When Gladiator got rebalanced, they didn’t remove any of his abilities
1. They're no longer doing buffs and nerfs every month, they have more than enough time to do so. 2. Gladiator wasn't op or straight up trash, he was mid. He didn't need a lot of changes to be in a healthy state, Serpent is absolutely busted on another level and needs big changes to be in a healthy state.
Like I mentioned, just let him start with less dread on defense, because dread increases the potency of his fury, grants him reduced critical penetration, and reduces the potency of instant damage. With less dread champs like Spider Ham can take him others can crit him more often. Plus his death immunity won't last as long and he won't gain as much power
Wow people are really disagreeing with this... Since when did these forums become this unhinged? Lmao overhyping mid champs and advocating for them with the typical "not every champ has to be good for BGs, they'll be great for AW!" (breaking news: you can use Blue Cyclops in AW if you want to cause of boosts and synergies) but then also advocating for op defenders (who 100% need to be tuned down for the game's health).
I think it’s the people who have him ranked lmao. I’m not even advocating for him to be a potato on defense, but he should be fair. People saying no nerf when he’s easily the most annoying thing ever created in this games existence to fight is funny
There’s absolutely no way that kabams data shows that serpent is fair. His win rate should be through the roof and all the last metas have boosted him. Archaos and Rich get Richer? Worst defender ever there on top of his already hard abilities. This meta he has 150% increases buff duration. I fought him earlier and he was gaining power for 10 years and his death immunity lasts for another 50 years.
You're not wrong about him being the most annoying defender every created since this game's inception, that's why I called them unhinged 😂
Wow people are really disagreeing with this... Since when did these forums become this unhinged? Lmao overhyping mid champs and advocating for them with the typical "not every champ has to be good for BGs, they'll be great for AW!" (breaking news: you can use Blue Cyclops in AW if you want to cause of boosts and synergies) but then also advocating for op defenders (who 100% need to be tuned down for the game's health).
I can’t speak for everyone so I won’t say that everyone who disagrees falls into this category. But from what I’ve seen it seems like a lot of the people who advocate against a nerf are those who have him as one of their top champs. The people I know in game who want him to stay the same are either valiants with him at r3, or newer to middle level paragons who have him as one of their first r5a. Almost everyone else I talk to is on the nerf side.
If you hear opinions from celestial players, the grand majority of them think he needs a nerf unquestionably. The only one I’ve heard against the nerf is Andy who owns a duped r3 lmao. Lagacy, Nagase, trappy, and probably others all agree he’s overtuned. From an objective standpoint of how he performs in that data he is wayyyyyy too much.
Yeah not everyone does, the first part was mostly a jab but in a satire tone lol I agree with everything you said.
I would personally change two things: 1. Remove the dread mechanics completely and replace it with something else, the 60% reduction in burst damage and crit penetration is absolutely ridiculous. If they don't want to remove it though then at the very least make it so he only starts with one dread that way it's just 20% reduction. 2. Remove the ridiculous power gain he gets while the death immunity buff is active.
Ironically enough I don't have an issue with the block damage cause if you play it right you can be knocking him down against the wall constantly with some champs, my main issues are those two mechanics. One straight up prevents a ton of champs from working, and the other one causes you to eat an sp3 if AI decides to be a jerk. With the first change you'd be able to use some champs like Red Goat, Ham, Scorpion and Rintrah effectively which is my #1 issue. Not only is his kit full of bs, you have very few options and even the ones that work, still can't nuke.
It’s very unlikely they remove big mechanics that a champ already has, this is rebalancing, not a rework. When Gladiator got rebalanced, they didn’t remove any of his abilities
1. They're no longer doing buffs and nerfs every month, they have more than enough time to do so. 2. Gladiator wasn't op or straight up trash, he was mid. He didn't need a lot of changes to be in a healthy state, Serpent is absolutely busted on another level and needs big changes to be in a healthy state.
Like I mentioned, just let him start with less dread on defense, because dread increases the potency of his fury, grants him reduced critical penetration, and reduces the potency of instant damage. With less dread champs like Spider Ham can take him others can crit him more often. Plus his death immunity won't last as long and he won't gain as much power
That's pretty much what I suggested, either change the mechanic completely or he starts with 1 always no matter what. Rintrah would also be a very solid counter if dread started at 1 always since he can already shut down the cheat death mechanic completely, and I honestly think Rintrah needs it cause he's been falling off for a while now.
I would personally change two things: 1. Remove the dread mechanics completely and replace it with something else, the 60% reduction in burst damage and crit penetration is absolutely ridiculous. If they don't want to remove it though then at the very least make it so he only starts with one dread that way it's just 20% reduction. 2. Remove the ridiculous power gain he gets while the death immunity buff is active.
Ironically enough I don't have an issue with the block damage cause if you play it right you can be knocking him down against the wall constantly with some champs, my main issues are those two mechanics. One straight up prevents a ton of champs from working, and the other one causes you to eat an sp3 if AI decides to be a jerk. With the first change you'd be able to use some champs like Red Goat, Ham, Scorpion and Rintrah effectively which is my #1 issue. Not only is his kit full of bs, you have very few options and even the ones that work, still can't nuke.
It’s very unlikely they remove big mechanics that a champ already has, this is rebalancing, not a rework. When Gladiator got rebalanced, they didn’t remove any of his abilities
1. They're no longer doing buffs and nerfs every month, they have more than enough time to do so. 2. Gladiator wasn't op or straight up trash, he was mid. He didn't need a lot of changes to be in a healthy state, Serpent is absolutely busted on another level and needs big changes to be in a healthy state.
Like I mentioned, just let him start with less dread on defense, because dread increases the potency of his fury, grants him reduced critical penetration, and reduces the potency of instant damage. With less dread champs like Spider Ham can take him others can crit him more often. Plus his death immunity won't last as long and he won't gain as much power
That's pretty much what I suggested, either change the mechanic completely or he starts with 1 always no matter what. Rintrah would also be a very solid counter if dread started at 1 always since he can already shut down the cheat death mechanic completely, and I honestly think Rintrah needs it cause he's been falling off for a while now.
Wow people are really disagreeing with this... Since when did these forums become this unhinged? Lmao overhyping mid champs and advocating for them with the typical "not every champ has to be good for BGs, they'll be great for AW!" (breaking news: you can use Blue Cyclops in AW if you want to cause of boosts and synergies) but then also advocating for op defenders (who 100% need to be tuned down for the game's health).
I can’t speak for everyone so I won’t say that everyone who disagrees falls into this category. But from what I’ve seen it seems like a lot of the people who advocate against a nerf are those who have him as one of their top champs. The people I know in game who want him to stay the same are either valiants with him at r3, or newer to middle level paragons who have him as one of their first r5a. Almost everyone else I talk to is on the nerf side.
If you hear opinions from celestial players, the grand majority of them think he needs a nerf unquestionably. The only one I’ve heard against the nerf is Andy who owns a duped r3 lmao. Lagacy, Nagase, trappy, and probably others all agree he’s overtuned. From an objective standpoint of how he performs in that data he is wayyyyyy too much.
Yeah not everyone does, the first part was mostly a jab but in a satire tone lol I agree with everything you said.
Lol yea I get it. I firmly believe that serpent from an objective un-opinionated standpoint (based on things like data about his win rate and the scores people get against him) is overtuned and needs a nerf. He’s broken the meta in so many instances.
He won't get nerfed.. learn him and don't fear him. He's OP in this BG GC meta but if you are complaining.. you probably are not in GC. We need strong and difficult defenders or this is a nukefest with little growth for the game and stagnation will take root and MCOC will die. Bring on Enchantress!
He won't get nerfed.. learn him and don't fear him. He's OP in this BG GC meta but if you are complaining.. you probably are not in GC. We need strong and difficult defenders or this is a nukefest with little growth for the game and stagnation will take root and MCOC will die. Bring on Enchantress!
We do need defenders but Serpent is just the worst to fight, as others have said, he’s overtuned as a defender
He won't get nerfed.. learn him and don't fear him. He's OP in this BG GC meta but if you are complaining.. you probably are not in GC. We need strong and difficult defenders or this is a nukefest with little growth for the game and stagnation will take root and MCOC will die. Bring on Enchantress!
Ah yes, because op defenders who are guaranteed round wins are great for the game. Why learn how to do matchups skillfully when you can just buy the latest defender and plop them on defense. Opponent gets 25k points, and you win even if you played badly cuz defenders go brrrr.
“If you’re complaining, you’re probably not in GC.” I guess lagacy, trappy, nagase, and many others are all victory track specialists, because they all think he’s blatantly overtuned.
He won't get nerfed.. learn him and don't fear him. He's OP in this BG GC meta but if you are complaining.. you probably are not in GC. We need strong and difficult defenders or this is a nukefest with little growth for the game and stagnation will take root and MCOC will die. Bring on Enchantress!
Bro said "learn him" as if you could somehow counter most of his bs abilities lmao neutralize makes him ramp up faster and you can't nullify his death immunity buff. He's a cosmic defender that shuts down 85% of the mystic class do you understand how busted that is? 💀
I think they could remove the power gain when the death immunity buff triggers. That ability really just seems like a middle finger unless you have one of a very few specific counters. And i can't imagine it adding much to him as an attacker.
Alternatively, you could just remove his ability power rate "protection". Again, that's an element of his kit which seems exclusively designed to reduce counters.
Same with the nullify immunity on his death immunity buff. Same with his 125% AA.
All of these features seem very specifically targeted to certain potential counters. You could get rid of some or all of these and have no impact on his attack viability.
On top of all these counter-counter features, he also has multiple features to make him incredibly tanky in general. It's just too much.
You know for once I'm sure everyone will agree at least Serpent wasn't a boss we had to fight in Spring of Sorrow. Onslaught actually wasn't that bad once you got used to fighting him.
By all seriousness, obviously people will be pissed if they nerf serpent on defense, cuz he is a dud in bg attack. So maybe buff him a bit in bg attack and nerf him on bg defense, like let him start with 2 dread in bg attack, and 8 cull force charges. At the same time let him have 2 dread on defense, and remove his fate seal immunity and neutralize bypass mechanism.
Yeah if they were to nerf it would be messy as there would have to be rank down tickets as many have taken theres to r3 or used sig stones etc. Id rather they focus on buffs like Negasonic
Yeah except they really don't have to...
Except for the fact that people spent real world currency on July sales for unit bundles to be able to obtain that Titan Nexus or other Titans in milestones etc. Would be a lot of uproar from the community. Which is why its better to not have the broken tier defenders come out the way they do in the first place or have some kind of Quality Control to prevent it from getting out
Yeah if they were to nerf it would be messy as there would have to be rank down tickets as many have taken theres to r3 or used sig stones etc. Id rather they focus on buffs like Negasonic
This wouldn't warrant rank down tickets as it isn't a bug or a silent nerf, it's rebalance which every champ has to go through. When a champ gets released you know there is always a chance they will get nerfed or buffed, people choosing to r3 him is not Kabam's fault, it's theirs. Just like it's my fault for taking Ironheart up to r2 before the rebalance info lmao.
+1 ...
I don't want to see him nerfed. I like there's this one champion I absolutely get wrecked most of the times if I'm not using the 2-3 options. Masochistic tendencies idk. I want more champs with neutralize. And it's apparent Kabam is afraid of neutralize.
I find him similar to the centipede guy. Kinda manageable with skillful play unawakened. It's the bs immortality in his sig that's really a pain in the bottom. There needs to be more ways to deal with it.
I think you nailed it OP, although I wouldn’t be too fussed if he kept his pierce. I think the other 3 change you propose are what’s needed. There is absolutely no need for him to be this tanky + have a die now mechanic that is essentially only avoidable with AI cooperation, especially with the current state of sentient AI.
I would personally change two things: 1. Remove the dread mechanics completely and replace it with something else, the 60% reduction in burst damage and crit penetration is absolutely ridiculous. If they don't want to remove it though then at the very least make it so he only starts with one dread that way it's just 20% reduction. 2. Remove the ridiculous power gain he gets while the death immunity buff is active.
Ironically enough I don't have an issue with the block damage cause if you play it right you can be knocking him down against the wall constantly with some champs, my main issues are those two mechanics. One straight up prevents a ton of champs from working, and the other one causes you to eat an sp3 if AI decides to be a jerk. With the first change you'd be able to use some champs like Red Goat, Ham, Scorpion and Rintrah effectively which is my #1 issue. Not only is his kit full of bs, you have very few options and even the ones that work, still can't nuke.
It’s very unlikely they remove big mechanics that a champ already has, this is rebalancing, not a rework. When Gladiator got rebalanced, they didn’t remove any of his abilities
1. They're no longer doing buffs and nerfs every month, they have more than enough time to do so. 2. Gladiator wasn't op or straight up trash, he was mid. He didn't need a lot of changes to be in a healthy state, Serpent is absolutely busted on another level and needs big changes to be in a healthy state.
Like I mentioned, just let him start with less dread on defense, because dread increases the potency of his fury, grants him reduced critical penetration, and reduces the potency of instant damage. With less dread champs like Spider Ham can take him others can crit him more often. Plus his death immunity won't last as long and he won't gain as much power
That's pretty much what I suggested, either change the mechanic completely or he starts with 1 always no matter what. Rintrah would also be a very solid counter if dread started at 1 always since he can already shut down the cheat death mechanic completely, and I honestly think Rintrah needs it cause he's been falling off for a while now.
We might see 7* Rintrah soon
I don't want to see 7r3 Rintrahs spamming long ass sp1 again and again in BG war 🥲
For me it’s gotta be the power gain. He’s like Iron Man IW on steroids with how many specials he’s able to throw in that final phase. They gotta tune that down at the very least.
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2. Gladiator wasn't op or straight up trash, he was mid. He didn't need a lot of changes to be in a healthy state, Serpent is absolutely busted on another level and needs big changes to be in a healthy state.
Rintrah would also be a very solid counter if dread started at 1 always since he can already shut down the cheat death mechanic completely, and I honestly think Rintrah needs it cause he's been falling off for a while now.
He's OP in this BG GC meta but if you are complaining.. you probably are not in GC.
We need strong and difficult defenders or this is a nukefest with little growth for the game and stagnation will take root and MCOC will die.
Bring on Enchantress!
“If you’re complaining, you’re probably not in GC.” I guess lagacy, trappy, nagase, and many others are all victory track specialists, because they all think he’s blatantly overtuned.
Alternatively, you could just remove his ability power rate "protection". Again, that's an element of his kit which seems exclusively designed to reduce counters.
Same with the nullify immunity on his death immunity buff. Same with his 125% AA.
All of these features seem very specifically targeted to certain potential counters. You could get rid of some or all of these and have no impact on his attack viability.
On top of all these counter-counter features, he also has multiple features to make him incredibly tanky in general. It's just too much.
By all seriousness, obviously people will be pissed if they nerf serpent on defense, cuz he is a dud in bg attack. So maybe buff him a bit in bg attack and nerf him on bg defense, like let him start with 2 dread in bg attack, and 8 cull force charges. At the same time let him have 2 dread on defense, and remove his fate seal immunity and neutralize bypass mechanism.
...
I don't want to see him nerfed. I like there's this one champion I absolutely get wrecked most of the times if I'm not using the 2-3 options. Masochistic tendencies idk.
I want more champs with neutralize. And it's apparent Kabam is afraid of neutralize.
Why can't I dex his stupid specials?
Why new cosmics are Anti-Doom? That's just not cool.
Also please stop giving every new defenders power gain when AI is being stinky and holding block till bar turns red.
Fix that first? 😀