Super unusual question, do any of you guys have a Doctorate?

I'm just asking because I recently finished my Masters and got into a Doctorate. I'm feeling a bit burnt out at my current job (and education for that matter) and as everything stands, I can only really move laterally within it (in other words, I can really only get the same job). I'm not saying the Doctorate would guarantee anything but I think it will help open up some doors. The question is, do you guys thinks its worth another 4-5 years of school and debt. Did it ultimately help you within your life? I know it's a bit of an unusual question for this forum, but weirdly enough, this just ended up being the forum I use the most.

Comments

Sundance_2099

My eldest sister did 2 degrees and later spent ~10 years working in a dry cleaners.

ahmynuts

I don't have a doctorate but I do have a B.S. in BS.

In all seriousness though in this day and age it's really a hit or miss as to what will help you. I can only speak on the tech industry but you need to have been studying since before you were born to meet some of these entry level job requirements I've seen around

Raganator

I have a PhD, but it was in the sciences so it didn't result in any debt. I would say it all depends what type of career you want and whether the extra school will get you there over the Masters. If a Masters + several years of experience in industry gets you to the same place, then it won't be worth it. If there are jobs that you think would require a doctorate, then it is obviously worth it. There is a big calculation to consider depending the earning potential of the doctorate. You are giving up several years of earning and building up debt. When you are younger is the perfect time to start retirement savings given how compounding works.

I did, however, after grad school go to law school and rack up debt. The financial aspects of a law degree helped pay off those loans as quickly as possible, so the value proposition was clear to me.

But here is the real question you need to ask. Would you enjoy pursuing your doctorate? Would you prefer to start a career now? As I have gotten older, the only real question I ask before starting new endeavors: Does this make me happy? If you can support your lifestyle with your masters and are happy, then maybe that's good enough. You can always go back to school - no matter your age.

Dr. Crab

@ahmynuts Yeah dude my undergraduate is in Math/Computer Science and my M.S. in Cybersecurity and it’s just like nonsense what they except at entry level.

captain_rogers

Really depends on your major. And really depends on which university you're choosing. Said that, won't you get paid for doing doctorate? I mean, You can work at teaching level or get monthly stipend for your research, right?

Terra

Not a doctorate.

But a teachers permit I do hold. Does that count.

EdisonLaw

I have a doctorate in MCOC, does that count?

captain_rogers

I have a doctorate in MCOC, does that count?

Doctorate is posting forums, for sure.

Dr. Crab

@Raganator Here's my stats (I'll try to be brief to not waste to much of your time in case you read this):

Age: 37
Degrees:
B.A: Pure Mathematics/Computer Science
M.S: Cybersecurity

I have been teaching at a high school now for about 7 years. My goal is to help students empower themselves with A.I. to help backfill the large gaps of education missing from COVID as well as to help combat the neurological effects of constant internet access and short form content like TikTok (attention deficits). The best way to go about this is by becoming a principle. Now you don't need a Doctorate to do this, but to impose a new type of curriculum, the expertise that come with this title will definitely help stream line this process. I guess for me, it is exactly like you said, I'm at a point in my life where my decisions are heavily weight on wether or not something will make me happy. My mortality is becoming increasingly clear in very visceral ways and the finality of my time is growing increasingly more valuable. Also, it took me a long time to understand that when I make a decision, its impact is not in that moment but when the decision concludes. In other words, I'm considering a Doctorate now at 37 which isn't so old but it concludes at 41~, which although still not old, its much older and a much later date to start something from the beginning (i.e. becoming a principle). So its tricky dude, I really am quit confused. My passion will always be Pure Mathematics, but the best way I can serve my community is via education and I believe querring A.I. will be similar to typing when I was a kid. A skill that you took classes on, put on resumes, got certified in, but now would look so strange to see on a resume. I don't really want to go to school anymore, but I also feel a sense of duty to these kids that are so fu**ed...Tough dude, but thank you though for the advice.

Iamnike

Not a doctor but im a registered nurse

SpiderVerse

I have a doctorate in MCOC, does that count?

If that count then I believe that I still in elementary school

Drago_von_Drago

It varies by field. In my career I don’t remember running into anyone with a PhD at any level and don’t expect it to mean much. If you were working in education (teaching or public administration/education policy) it would go a long way though.

Look at the people in the jobs you’re looking to end up in. If they have PhDs they are likely to promote that in their email signature and/or social/professional web pages. That should give you some insight on if it matters now but that can also change in 5-10 years too.

With something evolving as fast as cyber security I’d be worried anything you gain from doctorate level course work would already be out dated and you’d be missing out on industry work time staying more current.

On the entry level requirement point, apply anyway. A lot of times the postings aren’t written by the hiring manager so you may get considered even if you don’t meet the posting requirements. I’ll take a less experienced person who seems competent and trainable over someone with 10 more years of experience that can’t think outside the box when they get an unexpected question.

The_Doctor_24_1

I have a MD but man, that question just came out of the blue. I didn't expected such a real life post on the forum this morning.
In my opinion you must think about the doors you mean to open with a doctorate before you sprint into one. If you are feeling burned out in your current position then maybe the issue atm it's to change it. As you said a doctorate doesn't automatically guarantees a better life. Maybe a change in scenery it's what you need at this moment in your life so you could take more experience and after that consider a doctorate, because higher education with more experience it's more important to open doors

DNA3000

In my opinion, advanced degrees make sense in three circumstances in the context of advancing your career:

1. A job you want requires it. Not helps: requires.

2. Your job will pay for it. The strong implication is your company values it and will likely improve your upward mobility prospects if you have it. A lot of MBAs happen this way.

3. You’re willing and able to pursue that degree at a college at which the networking opportunities in your chosen career vastly outweigh the educational ones, and you plan on taking full advantage.

Other than those three, there’s one additional one that not everyone can actually benefit from. If you believe the program will give you opportunities to better yourself in ways that will make you a much stronger professional, independent of grades and tests, then it can be worth it. If your sole focus is grades, tests, and a certificate, I know of no technical program that automatically makes good people. The program has to be a means to an end, and the end shouldn’t be the degree, it should be all the learning that you used every opportunity to get along the way. And even PhDs can get there with a lot of busy work that generates a thesis only six people will ever read.

I will say that it’s odd to me your BS is in CS and your MS is in Cyber but you feel trapped laterally. In those fields, which I’m familiar with, unless you are someone looking to move upward into management (in which case the MBA is the correct path not the PhD) most upward mobility is governed by experience and performance, not advanced education degrees. PhDs in IT are generally not seen except in very highly specialized career paths. At least, it’s not something I run into often.

The problem may simply be that IT and IT adjacent jobs (risk management, data protection, etc) aren’t very deep except in very large organizations, do you move up, you often have to move out to a bigger or better firm. But I believe most companies in need of PhDs on the staff is going to be a pretty big one. Or it’s a startup in an incubator trying to make an AI toaster.

Nacho98

As many have said, it depends on your major and if you need the continued education to find a solid job that you love and provides for you.

For me, I ended up deciding not to pursue a doctorate in my field due to too many student loans. So I found a job I liked and payed well and now I have a masters instead thanks to my wife granting me free tuition. It’ll all work itself out

Raganator

@Raganator Here's my stats (I'll try to be brief to not waste to much of your time in case you read this):

Age: 37
Degrees:
B.A: Pure Mathematics/Computer Science
M.S: Cybersecurity

I have been teaching at a high school now for about 7 years. My goal is to help students empower themselves with A.I. to help backfill the large gaps of education missing from COVID as well as to help combat the neurological effects of constant internet access and short form content like TikTok (attention deficits). The best way to go about this is by becoming a principle. Now you don't need a Doctorate to do this, but to impose a new type of curriculum, the expertise that come with this title will definitely help stream line this process. I guess for me, it is exactly like you said, I'm at a point in my life where my decisions are heavily weight on wether or not something will make me happy. My mortality is becoming increasingly clear in very visceral ways and the finality of my time is growing increasingly more valuable. Also, it took me a long time to understand that when I make a decision, its impact is not in that moment but when the decision concludes. In other words, I'm considering a Doctorate now at 37 which isn't so old but it concludes at 41~, which although still not old, its much older and a much later date to start something from the beginning (i.e. becoming a principle). So its tricky dude, I really am quit confused. My passion will always be Pure Mathematics, but the best way I can serve my community is via education and I believe querring A.I. will be similar to typing when I was a kid. A skill that you took classes on, put on resumes, got certified in, but now would look so strange to see on a resume. I don't really want to go to school anymore, but I also feel a sense of duty to these kids that are so fu**ed...Tough dude, but thank you though for the advice.

I may be far off on my assessment here because it's not my field. But if you are looking to revolutionize through A.I., given the speed of progress, going back to grad school may not be streamlining at all. If you invested your time into developing what you view as a critical curriculum instead in grad school, then you may actually get ahead of the curve. Of course, you also need the skills of a salesman to pitch your ideas and make other believe they are feasible. I have several advanced degrees and currently work in higher ed (obviously I think there is value in advanced education). But I also come from a very blue collar family (first generation college) and understand the value of hard work. Not everything requires more education and so much can be learned from self education and determination. It's also clear that what you value serving youth and community - there are many ways to do this (including forging your own path). It may sound like I'm saying "don't go back to school" - I'm not - but I do recognize the time and cost commitments - which are significant. Just trying to help see things from a different perspective. I get the mortality feeling. I'm older than you are and every year goes by a little faster. Make that pros and cons list and try to determine what will lead to the most happiness.

ahmynuts

Now that I've read your gametime stats I'm inclined to say that for what you're wanting to do I don't think a PhD will necessarily help you. Especially in the AI field. I can't imagine any college or university offering anything substantial on the topic right now. It would also lock you in to a 4 year program where you need to move through a set curriculum.
The tech field and especially AI are moving ridiculously fast. I don't think a traditional school could keep up, let alone teach you what you want to know at an meaningful level unlike many other online resources.

That being said, I understand wanting or needed the credential. Alot of people, especially old heads, still value the couple of letters but in today's time it's been feeling like it all means jack. Especially in this field.

captain_rogers

Now that I've read your gametime stats I'm inclined to say that for what you're wanting to do I don't think a PhD will necessarily help you. Especially in the AI field. I can't imagine any college or university offering anything substantial on the topic right now. It would also lock you in to a 4 year program where you need to move through a set curriculum.
The tech field and especially AI are moving ridiculously fast. I don't think a traditional school could keep up, let alone teach you what you want to know at an meaningful level unlike many other online resources.

That being said, I understand wanting or needed the credential. Alot of people, especially old heads, still value the couple of letters but in today's time it's been feeling like it all means jack. Especially in this field.

True. A bootcamp, or even a 3 hr yt tutorial teach you more work ready stuff than clg, especially for CS majors.

BringPopcorn

No, but I can sell a steak to a vegan if needed...
Your goal is interesting, good luck

Frumpy_geezer

Now that I've read your gametime stats I'm inclined to say that for what you're wanting to do I don't think a PhD will necessarily help you. Especially in the AI field. I can't imagine any college or university offering anything substantial on the topic right now. It would also lock you in to a 4 year program where you need to move through a set curriculum.
The tech field and especially AI are moving ridiculously fast. I don't think a traditional school could keep up, let alone teach you what you want to know at an meaningful level unlike many other online resources.

That being said, I understand wanting or needed the credential. Alot of people, especially old heads, still value the couple of letters but in today's time it's been feeling like it all means jack. Especially in this field.

The university of texas has an online masters in AI that's one of the cheapest masters online degree I've seen. That could be a good option to double up on the masters. You could do it in 1.5 - 3 years. Save money and time and have some bonus credentials. It's not a doctorate but would surely stand out on a resume. Plus it's in the field you want. I plan on going for this when my wife finishes law school.

spiderknight616

Not a doctorate but I am a doctor

Cap_Murica

Don't have a doctorate, but 2 Masters and I'd recommend that you take some time off, get some work experience in your field and see if your current employer will fund your doctorate program. I'll be starting my Ph.D in Data science this fall and it's going to be fully paid by my employer.

Wicket329

If you’re looking to become a school principal, then I’d suggest a masters in education. That’s a shorter program than you’ve discussed previously (on average two years), and brings specific skills to the job you’re hoping to get. I have a JD, I’ve considered going back to school for a masters in education for very similar reasons to the ones you’ve articulated here. I would recommend that over a doctorate in a field that isn’t directly on point with the job you’re hoping to get.

Dr. Crab

This has all been very kind, I should clarify though, I am not looking to go into A.I. What I am looking to do is design curriculum for kids in school to learn how to better use A.I. to backfill the missing education. The problem currently with education is that these kids are so...and I am not being hyperbolic, borderline illiterate in just about all fields of education and general competency (which is fascinating in that we assumed the first generation to grow up entirely with the internet would be the most fluid with accessing technology but its turning out they are amongst the weakest in terms of trouble shooting complexity adaptability) . Teachers, although (hopefully) have a desire to help kids, there's only so much energy we have a day and there are so many kids. If I can help kids understand how to properly communicate with A.I., I can teach them to have a permanent and infinitely patient resource that can fluidly talk back to them and help them uncover whatever it is they missed. The reason for the Doctorate, and to be clear, I am perusing a Doctorate in Education so an Ed.D. is because to implement these type of changes and classes in a school, you have the best chance as a principle/superintendent and in the world of public education, these types of advance degrees are highly coveted. Again though, I am tired, very tired but I can't imagine how much more tired I'm going to be in 5 years from now (if I'm still trapped on this rock lol) so if I were to do it, I feel now is the best time but, man guys, ughhhh...another 4 years of coursework before I can even get to what I want to do...yuk.

Thanks though everyone who's offering me advice, I have been reading every comment. To all the MD/Nurses specifically, thank you for what you do, I know insurance can get in the way but you are all heroes to me.

TheUglyone123

This has all been very kind, I should clarify though, I am not looking to go into A.I. What I am looking to do is design curriculum for kids in school to learn how to better use A.I. to backfill the missing education. The problem currently with education is that these kids are so...and I am not being hyperbolic, borderline illiterate in just about all fields of education and general competency (which is fascinating in that we assumed the first generation to grow up entirely with the internet would be the most fluid with accessing technology but its turning out they are amongst the weakest in terms of trouble shooting complexity adaptability) . Teachers, although (hopefully) have a desire to help kids, there's only so much energy we have a day and there are so many kids. If I can help kids understand how to properly communicate with A.I., I can teach them to have a permanent and infinitely patient resource that can fluidly talk back to them and help them uncover whatever it is they missed. The reason for the Doctorate, and to be clear, I am perusing a Doctorate in Education so an Ed.D. is because to implement these type of changes and classes in a school, you have the best chance as a principle/superintendent and in the world of public education, these types of advance degrees are highly coveted. Again though, I am tired, very tired but I can't imagine how much more tired I'm going to be in 5 years from now (if I'm still trapped on this rock lol) so if I were to do it, I feel now is the best time but, man guys, ughhhh...another 4 years of coursework before I can even get to what I want to do...yuk.

Thanks though everyone who's offering me advice, I have been reading every comment. To all the MD/Nurses specifically, thank you for what you do, I know insurance can get in the way but you are all heroes to me.

I’m currently getting my doctorate in physical therapy. The process is arduous, but I’m very passionate about pursuing this as a career. And I think that is a big part of this whole process. If I didn’t have this passion, I wouldn’t want to continue, because it is hard work and stressful. So if you love it, do it, because the job you get from this degree will be something you do for years.

A big burden reliever of this degree was getting a graduate assistant position to work while I’m in school. They cover part or all of your tuition depending on the position. This is huge for covering part of the debt I will have to pay off after. If you can get the position, DO IT. It’s tough but hey, worthwhile things in life typically are.

TotemCorruption

A juris doctorate, does that count?

Wicket329

A juris doctorate, does that count?

Oh no there’s more of us

Kabam (Osaurus) Rex

This was a great thread to read through

Couldn't possibly be more off topic... but... I'll allow it.

TotemCorruption

My eldest sister did 2 degrees and later spent ~10 years working in a dry cleaners.

Were her degrees in textile science?

kvirr

No, but I can sell a steak to a vegan if needed...
Your goal is interesting, good luck

and if that doesn’t work just eat it in front of them