Normally, it's fine. But it becomes a problem when there is conflict of interest. If I'm seeing videos of a content creator talking about the 'state of the game" while they are being employed by them, it is a problem.
Why?
Do you not make your own decision on the "state of the game" as it pertains to you?
Genuinely asking because I'm not sure how the opinion of a youtuber can influence how i feel.
The same reason I am on the forums. To hear opinions about different topics in game. Honest opinions.
You know the old saying about opinions.
For me, I read almost everything posted here but what I read falls into 3 categories.
1. I agree, that blows. 2. What a plonker, bro is a complete spud. 3. I didn't know that, I learned something.
Only one of those has any influence, the rest is just noise.
Not that kind of discussion. Opinions about content or deals. If a player says, "Guys I think this is a really good deal", I want to know if they actually think that as a player or they are just being paid by Kabam to say so.
I'm not going to buy deals eitherway. That's irrelevant. But I like to see what the community thinks . I don't want opinions about the game from the game team itself.
Normally, it's fine. But it becomes a problem when there is conflict of interest. If I'm seeing videos of a content creator talking about the 'state of the game" while they are being employed by them, it is a problem.
Why?
Do you not make your own decision on the "state of the game" as it pertains to you?
Genuinely asking because I'm not sure how the opinion of a youtuber can influence how i feel.
The same reason I am on the forums. To hear opinions about different topics in game. Honest opinions.
You know the old saying about opinions.
For me, I read almost everything posted here but what I read falls into 3 categories.
1. I agree, that blows. 2. What a plonker, bro is a complete spud. 3. I didn't know that, I learned something.
Only one of those has any influence, the rest is just noise.
Not that kind of discussion. Opinions about content or deals. If a player says, "Guys I think this is a really good deal", I want to know if they actually think that as a player or they are just being paid by Kabam to say so.
I'm not going to buy deals eitherway. That's irrelevant. But I like to see what the community thinks . I don't want opinions about the game from the game team itself.
Im selfish, I look at deals and think "will this change my ingame experience"
Most times it's no because it's a game that i play for fun.
I dont spend in any serious way and I don't whale on unit events.
I like to hear what people think but its my money (well, not really because married and 4 teenagers) and every 40 units is a revive i can't buy.
I am a pragmatist, everything has a value but not everything is of value.
Normally, it's fine. But it becomes a problem when there is conflict of interest. If I'm seeing videos of a content creator talking about the 'state of the game" while they are being employed by them, it is a problem.
Why?
Do you not make your own decision on the "state of the game" as it pertains to you?
Genuinely asking because I'm not sure how the opinion of a youtuber can influence how i feel.
The same reason I am on the forums. To hear opinions about different topics in game. Honest opinions.
You know the old saying about opinions.
For me, I read almost everything posted here but what I read falls into 3 categories.
1. I agree, that blows. 2. What a plonker, bro is a complete spud. 3. I didn't know that, I learned something.
Only one of those has any influence, the rest is just noise.
Not that kind of discussion. Opinions about content or deals. If a player says, "Guys I think this is a really good deal", I want to know if they actually think that as a player or they are just being paid by Kabam to say so.
I'm not going to buy deals eitherway. That's irrelevant. But I like to see what the community thinks . I don't want opinions about the game from the game team itself.
Im selfish, I look at deals and think "will this change my ingame experience"
Most times it's no because it's a game that i play for fun.
I dont spend in any serious way and I don't whale on unit events.
I like to hear what people think but its my money (well, not really because married and 4 teenagers) and every 40 units is a revive i can't buy.
I am a pragmatist, everything has a value but not everything is of value.
Best thing is, its completely my decision.
Again, it's not for me to decide whether or not to buy deals. I don't buy deals eitherway. But I like hearing opinions nonetheless.
If a new content is released, I like to see whether the community thinks it is good or hard or worth it. I like to see where I fall in the spectrum of players. I can't do that if the numbers are manipulated by Kabam.(I'm not saying they are doing it, but if they were).
Practically speaking, disclosure would be hard to enforce.
I think if there are content creators that are doing it voluntarily, and if there are viewers who find this disclosure important, then they have the option of watching those that do and avoiding those that don't.
I also think in a world of Google reviews, Yelp, Amazon reviews, etc., the online consumer is much more vigilant for fake news, bots, and conflicts of interest where a formalized operationalized disclosure system for MCOC content creators is not critically necessary.
Practically speaking, disclosure would be hard to enforce.
I think if there are content creators that are doing it voluntarily, and if there are viewers who find this disclosure important, then they have the option of watching those that do and avoiding those that don't.
I also think in a world of Google reviews, Yelp, Amazon reviews, etc., the online consumer is much more vigilant for fake news, bots, and conflicts of interest where a formalized operationalized disclosure system for MCOC content creators is not critically necessary.
Great points - how can someone avoid those that don't if they never knew the truth about them being an employee? That's the tricky part.
Yes - we should ideally be told they do work for Kabam
As far as we know, kabam doesnt control any of their employes opinions (as a youtuber atleast) I observed that creators(employee or not) never promoted offers. On contrary, most of them always mentioned 'spend if you can afford it, or you don't have to spend at all'. On the other hand.... If some big issue popped up in the game, the employees won't be sharing their disagreement publically on YouTube. They must discuss that in internal meetings. Thats how any office works. So when it comes to employment and their youtube careers, I too won't be biting the hand which is feeding me.
For example, -DLL always praises a new champ launch on his 'deep dive with context' videos. But now we have the knowledge that he is an actual champion designer and he is representing his team, plus giving his own views on it, which is great, I'd say. Videos he made, before we knew he was a designer, had significantly less value to most playerbase. Otherwise I wouldn't put weight on his feedback in comment section or in his live streams. -Karatemike showcased plenty of champs (before we got to know that he is working for kabam too). We cant decide whether the opinions are biased or not.
Nobody can love all champions. There's no way. Every single player have champions on their 'hate list'. There's a huge difference of perspective between a content creator vs an employee. An employee will always have bias towards his work (nothings wrong in that either). But people 'should' (must?) know, what's what!
Every creator in the CCP who is employed by Kabam in any way is known to the community. There are no "secretly employed" content creators.
I do agree there needs to be a disclosure of that, though. But there always has been.
There's also the fact that the CCP itself exists: Kabam has been running separate access for the CCP to allow them to test new champs in a specific environment, for a long time, now.
That's a 'working relationship' which is beneficial to both sides; and frankly, beneficial to the rest of us, too.
I think we should just assume both parties are mutually supportive and appreciative of each other (except KT1 😉), and that this may lead to a little overhyping here and there.
But the existence of the YouTube algorithm, and the propensity for clickbait-hype to drive viewing is probably a far stronger influence on the content creators than Kabam themselves are.
I wouldn't expect any kind of disclosure unless the creator becomes a full-time employee like Dave, who announced that pretty thoroughly on his channel.
Do you mean being paid for doing stuff or getting special offers from kabam?
I mean like they do work for Kabam, so they are effectively a pseudo-employee/contractor, or just a straight up full member of staff.
If they do work for kabam or get paid thats their business. However they shouldn't be rewarded with special offers for their personal account that regular players would never get offered. For obvious reasons that would be unfair and wrong. As for disclosing it I don't see why they would hide it unless they are unhappy doing it or just private people. Me personally I couldn't care less whether they disclose it it's up to them. As long as their gameplay content is useful/helpful and not just clik bait I'm good. If they have business with kabam they will keep their mouth shut regarding the state of the game when making videos
I can just tell y'all that kabam doesn't pay the CCP to hype up a champion or an offer. If a content creator is hyping something up, it is because they genuinely believe in it, thats just who these people are. Whenever a content creator is working with kabam on something, that is typically public knowledge. A good example of this was the rework vote last month where we knew all the people who were tied to each champion rework. Another example was knowing that MSD helped curate one of the necro challenges.
Every creator in the CCP who is employed by Kabam in any way is known to the community. There are no "secretly employed" content creators.
I do agree there needs to be a disclosure of that, though. But there always has been.
Wow! Thanks for this info!
So if a YouTuber who is in the CCP does work for Kabam in any way it's known - nobody secretly works for them aside from who we already have been informed of.
Has this always been the case? Because I know when Karate Mike was doing work for Kabam he was asked directly about it in streams and didn't respond, it was only subsequently that he did a post officially announcing it. I feel like he was the first person that has it happened to.
Aside from Karate Mike, which other members of the CCP are also employees? I know you said it's known to the community. Is there a list of all CCP members and from that a list of CCP members who also work for Kabam? I only know of:
- Dork Lessons - Karate Mike - Daddy Long Legs - Metal Sonic Dude
Every creator in the CCP who is employed by Kabam in any way is known to the community. There are no "secretly employed" content creators.
I do agree there needs to be a disclosure of that, though. But there always has been.
There's also the fact that the CCP itself exists: Kabam has been running separate access for the CCP to allow them to test new champs in a specific environment, for a long time, now.
That's a 'working relationship' which is beneficial to both sides; and frankly, beneficial to the rest of us, too.
I think we should just assume both parties are mutually supportive and appreciative of each other (except KT1 😉), and that this may lead to a little overhyping here and there.
But the existence of the YouTube algorithm, and the propensity for clickbait-hype to drive viewing is probably a far stronger influence on the content creators than Kabam themselves are.
I wouldn't expect any kind of disclosure unless the creator becomes a full-time employee like Dave, who announced that pretty thoroughly on his channel.
So you personally wouldn't expect any disclosure until the point they are working only as a full-time employee. Is that because only full-time staff may have some bias, whereas part-time staff are less likely to commentate more favorably about their employer?
Yes - we should ideally be told they do work for Kabam
yes, it's good practice. i'd include the CCP as well, which is sometimes obvious with the ingame title and their videos testing new champs, but sometimes it's not. while those in the CCP don't technically get paid and have an official position with kabam, there can still be an indirect monetary benefit through channel boosting and it's good if players know that.
I can just tell y'all that kabam doesn't pay the CCP to hype up a champion or an offer. If a content creator is hyping something up, it is because they genuinely believe in it, thats just who these people are. Whenever a content creator is working with kabam on something, that is typically public knowledge. A good example of this was the rework vote last month where we knew all the people who were tied to each champion rework. Another example was knowing that MSD helped curate one of the necro challenges.
I'm not talking about the CCP, I'm talking about YouTubers who are in paid employment for the company Kabam i.e. they are their employer in some way.
Almost everyone on YouTube has worked with Kabam on something i.e. there's a "The Man" title, from RichTheMan - that doesn't mean much in comparison to if he's actually working for Kabam. Hopefully that clears that confusion up.
Do you mean being paid for doing stuff or getting special offers from kabam?
I mean like they do work for Kabam, so they are effectively a pseudo-employee/contractor, or just a straight up full member of staff.
If they do work for kabam or get paid thats their business. However they shouldn't be rewarded with special offers for their personal account that regular players would never get offered. For obvious reasons that would be unfair and wrong. As for disclosing it I don't see why they would hide it unless they are unhappy doing it or just private people. Me personally I couldn't care less whether they disclose it it's up to them. As long as their gameplay content is useful/helpful and not just clik bait I'm good. If they have business with kabam they will keep their mouth shut regarding the state of the game when making videos
yes, it's good practice. i'd include the CCP as well, which is sometimes obvious with the ingame title and their videos testing new champs, but sometimes it's not. while those in the CCP don't technically get paid and have an official position with kabam, there can still be an indirect monetary benefit through channel boosting and it's good if players know that.
I've just asked @SlayerOfGods for the official list of CCP members, so hopefully we will have that soon! 🙌
I can just tell y'all that kabam doesn't pay the CCP to hype up a champion or an offer. If a content creator is hyping something up, it is because they genuinely believe in it, thats just who these people are. Whenever a content creator is working with kabam on something, that is typically public knowledge. A good example of this was the rework vote last month where we knew all the people who were tied to each champion rework. Another example was knowing that MSD helped curate one of the necro challenges.
I'm not talking about the CCP, I'm talking about YouTubers who are in paid employment for the company Kabam i.e. they are their employer in some way.
Almost everyone on YouTube has worked with Kabam on something i.e. there's a "The Man" title, from RichTheMan - that doesn't mean much in comparison to if he's actually working for Kabam. Hopefully that clears that confusion up.
If a video ist paid for by Kabam, it is required by law in most countries that this is disclosed.
If a creator is just a member of a Creator Program, there is no reason to believe Kabam is influencing the videos. I myself am in several Creator Programs of huge developers and publishers, and have been for several years, and not even once has one of them even attempted influencing my opinions or scripts.In that case, I do not see why it should be required to disclose a partnership
I can just tell y'all that kabam doesn't pay the CCP to hype up a champion or an offer. If a content creator is hyping something up, it is because they genuinely believe in it, thats just who these people are. Whenever a content creator is working with kabam on something, that is typically public knowledge. A good example of this was the rework vote last month where we knew all the people who were tied to each champion rework. Another example was knowing that MSD helped curate one of the necro challenges.
I'm not talking about the CCP, I'm talking about YouTubers who are in paid employment for the company Kabam i.e. they are their employer in some way.
Almost everyone on YouTube has worked with Kabam on something i.e. there's a "The Man" title, from RichTheMan - that doesn't mean much in comparison to if he's actually working for Kabam. Hopefully that clears that confusion up.
Richtheman is a CCP member.
Here's some of the initial post I wrote:
"I wanted to get the opinion of the community on whether they believe content creators should inform their viewers when they begin any paid work for Kabam? The reason I personally believe there's a case for it, is for transparency and ethics. If people are aware of the relationship it allows them to make better decisions about the content they are watching."
Being in the CCP isn't employment - they are not paid. Giving input to a piece of content can also be unpaid.
What I'm asking about is when it reaches the threshold of you are employed by Kabam i.e. they are your employer, you do work for them, which may be freelance, paid by the hour, or you may have a temporary/permanent contract, or you work full/part time.
If a video ist paid for by Kabam, it is required by law in most countries that this is disclosed.
If a creator is just a member of a Creator Program, there is no reason to believe Kabam is influencing the videos. I myself am in several Creator Programs of huge developers and publishers, and have been for several years, and not even once has one of them even attempted influencing my opinions or scripts.In that case, I do not see why it should be required to disclose a partnership
Hi thanks for your message.
It's about being in a content creator program, it's "are they employed by Kabam"
What is your opinion about it if the content creator is a member of staff for Kabam in some capacity?
Every creator in the CCP who is employed by Kabam in any way is known to the community. There are no "secretly employed" content creators.
I do agree there needs to be a disclosure of that, though. But there always has been.
Wow! Thanks for this info!
So if a YouTuber who is in the CCP does work for Kabam in any way it's known - nobody secretly works for them aside from who we already have been informed of.
Has this always been the case? Because I know when Karate Mike was doing work for Kabam he was asked directly about it in streams and didn't respond, it was only subsequently that he did a post officially announcing it. I feel like he was the first person that has it happened to.
Aside from Karate Mike, which other members of the CCP are also employees? I know you said it's known to the community. Is there a list of all CCP members and from that a list of CCP members who also work for Kabam? I only know of:
- Dork Lessons - Karate Mike - Daddy Long Legs - Metal Sonic Dude
Can you add any more?
You're asking an unintentionally bizarre question. Let's start with the fact that i would argue none of those people are in fact members of the CCP.
The CCP is a program originally created to work with content creators (originally, Youtube video creators) by offering them early access to upcoming content (originally, new champions, but later all sorts of content) so that they could work on video content related to that MCOC content and be prepared to release it when that MCOC content itself released. This way the content creators could be talking about what new stuff was happening in the game as it happened at a higher quality, which benefitted the content creators and the game. The program consists of three main parts: an NDA agreement which governs what the content creators can disclose and when (it is the primary means of enforcing embargos on new content information), access to the beta test server where things like new content and new champions can be granted and tested without altering live accounts, and access to the CCP discord, where content creators can discuss the game and the content directly with the developers.
No employee of Kabam would need to be a member of the CCP to gain access to any of these things. Employees are already non-disclosed as part of their employment contracts. Employees can probably request beta access directly. And employees obviously already have access to the devs: they can just walk up to them and chat. Those four individuals might have been members of the CCP at one time, but I think that their status changed when they became employees. Assuming MSD is an employee: I don't recall if he explicitly stated he was or not (he could be a contractual hire).
There's no handbook or anything governing this, but one thing CCP members are supposed to is disclose the fact that they are members of the CCP whenever they make content using information received through the program. This is often implicit when they simply state that their footage came from the CCP server, but technically they are supposed to say that. Furthermore, there's a general rule that they are not supposed to state or imply that they are Kabam employees or officially represent Kabam in their content. Obviously, a Kabam employee can't honor that stipulation because they actually are employees, so (presumably) employees have separate terms spelled out to them if they happen to be (or become) public facing content creators. Most companies like this have rules against astroturfing, for example.
The CCP is a program for outsiders to gain access to Kabam. It would be somewhat nonsensical for a Kabam employee to also be a member of the program since the CCP program can offer them nothing they don't already have. Content creators who previously operated within the CCP have gone on to become employees, but as there is no Avengers moment when Tony Stark promoted them, I can see how that distinction might not be obvious.
Why this matters when discussing disclosure is I believe to the extent any ethical standard exists, the employee relationship takes precedence. In other words, it would not be a proper disclosure for a Kabam employee to disclose they were a CCP member and not an employee. There are exceptions and caveats to that, but I believe in general an employee saying their information came from the content creator program would be misleading.
I say there are caveats because there's a huge difference between the dude working in the mail room failing to identify themselves as a Kabam employee on their twitch channel and one of the champion designers doing the same while reviewing one of their own designs, say. But those nuances would be very difficult to identify from the outside.
Comments
I'm not going to buy deals eitherway. That's irrelevant. But I like to see what the community thinks . I don't want opinions about the game from the game team itself.
Most times it's no because it's a game that i play for fun.
I dont spend in any serious way and I don't whale on unit events.
I like to hear what people think but its my money (well, not really because married and 4 teenagers) and every 40 units is a revive i can't buy.
I am a pragmatist, everything has a value but not everything is of value.
Best thing is, its completely my decision.
If a new content is released, I like to see whether the community thinks it is good or hard or worth it. I like to see where I fall in the spectrum of players. I can't do that if the numbers are manipulated by Kabam.(I'm not saying they are doing it, but if they were).
I think if there are content creators that are doing it voluntarily, and if there are viewers who find this disclosure important, then they have the option of watching those that do and avoiding those that don't.
I also think in a world of Google reviews, Yelp, Amazon reviews, etc., the online consumer is much more vigilant for fake news, bots, and conflicts of interest where a formalized operationalized disclosure system for MCOC content creators is not critically necessary.
I observed that creators(employee or not) never promoted offers. On contrary, most of them always mentioned 'spend if you can afford it, or you don't have to spend at all'.
On the other hand....
If some big issue popped up in the game, the employees won't be sharing their disagreement publically on YouTube. They must discuss that in internal meetings. Thats how any office works.
So when it comes to employment and their youtube careers, I too won't be biting the hand which is feeding me.
For example,
-DLL always praises a new champ launch on his 'deep dive with context' videos. But now we have the knowledge that he is an actual champion designer and he is representing his team, plus giving his own views on it, which is great, I'd say.
Videos he made, before we knew he was a designer, had significantly less value to most playerbase. Otherwise I wouldn't put weight on his feedback in comment section or in his live streams.
-Karatemike showcased plenty of champs (before we got to know that he is working for kabam too). We cant decide whether the opinions are biased or not.
Nobody can love all champions. There's no way. Every single player have champions on their 'hate list'.
There's a huge difference of perspective between a content creator vs an employee.
An employee will always have bias towards his work (nothings wrong in that either). But people 'should' (must?) know, what's what!
I do agree there needs to be a disclosure of that, though. But there always has been.
That's a 'working relationship' which is beneficial to both sides; and frankly, beneficial to the rest of us, too.
I think we should just assume both parties are mutually supportive and appreciative of each other (except KT1 😉), and that this may lead to a little overhyping here and there.
But the existence of the YouTube algorithm, and the propensity for clickbait-hype to drive viewing is probably a far stronger influence on the content creators than Kabam themselves are.
I wouldn't expect any kind of disclosure unless the creator becomes a full-time employee like Dave, who announced that pretty thoroughly on his channel.
So if a YouTuber who is in the CCP does work for Kabam in any way it's known - nobody secretly works for them aside from who we already have been informed of.
Has this always been the case? Because I know when Karate Mike was doing work for Kabam he was asked directly about it in streams and didn't respond, it was only subsequently that he did a post officially announcing it. I feel like he was the first person that has it happened to.
Aside from Karate Mike, which other members of the CCP are also employees? I know you said it's known to the community. Is there a list of all CCP members and from that a list of CCP members who also work for Kabam? I only know of:
- Dork Lessons
- Karate Mike
- Daddy Long Legs
- Metal Sonic Dude
Can you add any more?
Almost everyone on YouTube has worked with Kabam on something i.e. there's a "The Man" title, from RichTheMan - that doesn't mean much in comparison to if he's actually working for Kabam. Hopefully that clears that confusion up.
If a creator is just a member of a Creator Program, there is no reason to believe Kabam is influencing the videos. I myself am in several Creator Programs of huge developers and publishers, and have been for several years, and not even once has one of them even attempted influencing my opinions or scripts.In that case, I do not see why it should be required to disclose a partnership
"I wanted to get the opinion of the community on whether they believe content creators should inform their viewers when they begin any paid work for Kabam? The reason I personally believe there's a case for it, is for transparency and ethics. If people are aware of the relationship it allows them to make better decisions about the content they are watching."
Being in the CCP isn't employment - they are not paid.
Giving input to a piece of content can also be unpaid.
What I'm asking about is when it reaches the threshold of you are employed by Kabam i.e. they are your employer, you do work for them, which may be freelance, paid by the hour, or you may have a temporary/permanent contract, or you work full/part time.
Hopefully that clears up the misunderstanding.
It's about being in a content creator program, it's "are they employed by Kabam"
What is your opinion about it if the content creator is a member of staff for Kabam in some capacity?
The CCP is a program originally created to work with content creators (originally, Youtube video creators) by offering them early access to upcoming content (originally, new champions, but later all sorts of content) so that they could work on video content related to that MCOC content and be prepared to release it when that MCOC content itself released. This way the content creators could be talking about what new stuff was happening in the game as it happened at a higher quality, which benefitted the content creators and the game. The program consists of three main parts: an NDA agreement which governs what the content creators can disclose and when (it is the primary means of enforcing embargos on new content information), access to the beta test server where things like new content and new champions can be granted and tested without altering live accounts, and access to the CCP discord, where content creators can discuss the game and the content directly with the developers.
No employee of Kabam would need to be a member of the CCP to gain access to any of these things. Employees are already non-disclosed as part of their employment contracts. Employees can probably request beta access directly. And employees obviously already have access to the devs: they can just walk up to them and chat. Those four individuals might have been members of the CCP at one time, but I think that their status changed when they became employees. Assuming MSD is an employee: I don't recall if he explicitly stated he was or not (he could be a contractual hire).
There's no handbook or anything governing this, but one thing CCP members are supposed to is disclose the fact that they are members of the CCP whenever they make content using information received through the program. This is often implicit when they simply state that their footage came from the CCP server, but technically they are supposed to say that. Furthermore, there's a general rule that they are not supposed to state or imply that they are Kabam employees or officially represent Kabam in their content. Obviously, a Kabam employee can't honor that stipulation because they actually are employees, so (presumably) employees have separate terms spelled out to them if they happen to be (or become) public facing content creators. Most companies like this have rules against astroturfing, for example.
The CCP is a program for outsiders to gain access to Kabam. It would be somewhat nonsensical for a Kabam employee to also be a member of the program since the CCP program can offer them nothing they don't already have. Content creators who previously operated within the CCP have gone on to become employees, but as there is no Avengers moment when Tony Stark promoted them, I can see how that distinction might not be obvious.
Why this matters when discussing disclosure is I believe to the extent any ethical standard exists, the employee relationship takes precedence. In other words, it would not be a proper disclosure for a Kabam employee to disclose they were a CCP member and not an employee. There are exceptions and caveats to that, but I believe in general an employee saying their information came from the content creator program would be misleading.
I say there are caveats because there's a huge difference between the dude working in the mail room failing to identify themselves as a Kabam employee on their twitch channel and one of the champion designers doing the same while reviewing one of their own designs, say. But those nuances would be very difficult to identify from the outside.