Exploit = changing alliances to seek easier wars to win against overmatched opponents
Not an exploit = changing alliances to seek harder wars to win against evenly matched opponents
This is simple. A lot of you were annoyed they could just snap their fingers and create a top 10 AQ alliance.
But after AW seasons were announced, you found joy in the fact that they wouldn’t have the war rating to earn season rewards for a top 10 alliance. And now you’re all just mad that they will.
Worry about yourselves. If they don’t belong in tier 1 then they won’t finish there.
Did it really delete my comment? Lame. It was long and thought out.
Readers digest version
They shouldn’t just piggyback the rarest rewards in game to an existing system. There should have been some sort of a reset, and some sort of a placement round.
It won't let you edit after fifteen minutes, and I've also noticed if you try to edit and change only a tiny thing it goes to moderator approval land. I think the forum software has a brain-dead bug where if you try to edit a single word, it triggers the repost filter and thinks you are trying to post something almost identical to a previous post, which is technically true but also dumb.
It won't let you edit after fifteen minutes, and I've also noticed if you try to edit and change only a tiny thing it goes to moderator approval land. I think the forum software has a brain-dead bug where if you try to edit a single word, it triggers the repost filter and thinks you are trying to post something almost identical to a previous post, which is technically true but also dumb.
That’s what happened. I changed a should to shouldn’t. And then poof. But do you agree there should be a reset and placement period?
Same thing here, you are earning rewards you did not work for. And maybe could not reach unless you used that technicality.
The problem with this line of thinking applied universally is that no one who jumps to an alliance higher than the one they were originally in gets rewards they worked for. My alliance is currently in tier 8. If a tier 1 alliance recruits me tomorrow, is that fair? Should I be disallowed from being recruited into certain alliances because I don't deserve the rewards they get? Any fairness rule must, unless we're being hilariously hypocritical, be applied fairly to everyone. If it is unfair for a group of players who were in a high tier to jump to a new alliance and then to an alliance in the mid tiers, it would be even more unfair for me to jump into an alliance at a tier I have never so much as been in the same zip code as in my entire playing history. And that's a line I don't think can be safely crossed.
It won't let you edit after fifteen minutes, and I've also noticed if you try to edit and change only a tiny thing it goes to moderator approval land. I think the forum software has a brain-dead bug where if you try to edit a single word, it triggers the repost filter and thinks you are trying to post something almost identical to a previous post, which is technically true but also dumb.
That’s what happened. I changed a should to shouldn’t. And then poof. But do you agree there should be a reset and placement period?
At the moment, no. It sounds simple, but its extremely problematic. You can't just reset everyone's war rating to zero, because then you will have tier 1 (for all intents and purposes here) fighting tier 20 alliances to win and move up in rank. The low alliances will just get crushed for a couple weeks while the ratings sort themselves out. And you can't match by "virtual rating" while reseting everyone's actual war rating because then tier 1 alliances would get matched against each other and their one win will be equal to the one win from a tier 20 alliance. That would place the higher tier alliances at a significant disadvantage. It would take months for an ELO-like system to sort itself out from there.
However we add competitive rewards, the presumption is that the players that win those competitive rewards will come from the pool of the strongest players in the game. The weakest ones aren't realistically going to have a shot at them. That's inherent to a game that emphasizes progress. The rewards for getting better, are better. That's not an intrinsic flaw of the system. This isn't an IROC race.
The best you can probably do practically, is what they are doing. We are technically in the placement phase of AW. We know it is coming, we know there is an advantage to being in a higher AW tier, but at the moment no one is earning points towards the seasonal reward tier. Every alliance is free to jockey for position until the season starts, and no one's multiplier currently counts for anything. Only wins and losses do.
What amazes me is the people saying this opens things up to exploits in the long term, this was a rare situation, them going to tier 4 is really not that big a deal as it’s the start of the season and it’s actually better for them to be where they belong rather than hurting all the high tier teams chances at progressing on their way up, again kabam came up with reasonably well thought out system which stops alliance hopping and a majority of war exploits, but someone always has to find one small thing to complain about. All I can think of is a pimply teenager, throwing a Tanty and whimpering ‘it’s just not fair’
What amazes me is the people saying this opens things up to exploits in the long term, this was a rare situation, them going to tier 4 is really not that big a deal as it’s the start of the season and it’s actually better for them to be where they belong rather than hurting all the high tier teams chances at progressing on their way up, again kabam came up with reasonably well thought out system which stops alliance hopping and a majority of war exploits, but someone always has to find one small thing to complain about. All I can think of is a pimply teenager, throwing a Tanty and whimpering ‘it’s just not fair’
I agree. What we have is an Ally that moved for a fresh start in the Season. My reputation precedes me, and I would usually be the first to speak up against something that is exploitative. I do not agree that this is, simply because we have a discussion about an Ally that moved once, before the beginning of the Season. War is based on cumulative progress. Regardless of the Rating at the time of moving, it takes an adequate amount of work and cumulative Wins to maintain it. The Season lasts for some time, and that will require them to stay and work for said Rewards for the duration of the Season. I find the discussion to be exaggerated around one move, and compounded by other existing issues. If it was a situation where there was repeated abuse of the system, I would be at the front of the line to say something. That's not what we have here, and it's not applicable to the situation.
I dont understand, can someone explain this in dumbar$e so I know whats happening.
I'm going to vastly oversimplify just to avoid the internal politics of the whole thing. Basically, a bunch of people left a relatively high rated alliance recently and decided to form their own alliance. Ignoring recruiting and such, let's call the original alliance Alpha. They left and formed Beta. Beta is a brand new alliance so of course it starts off in the lowest tiers of AQ and AW, and they were fine with that. But then Kabam announces the new AW system, and the rewards are both very good and highly dependent on which AW tier you were in. Beta's current tier is very low and it would take some time to build up to a high tier. In the meantime, you might be losing out on a lot of AW season rewards.
It occurs to someone in Beta that they have a second account that is parked in an old alliance that still exists, and its old tier is higher than Beta's tier. This old alliance, I will call Gamma, is otherwise empty. The members of Beta take a vote and decide to leave Beta and join Gamma, so in effect everyone in Beta is now in Gamma. Since Gamma has a higher AW tier and rating, they will start the new AW season in a better position.
Some people think this is an exploit, because in one sense Beta magically transformed themselves into Gamma, and instantly boosted its war rating. However, the problem with considering this to be an exploit is the fact that when the members of Beta originally left Alpha, they could have immediately joined Gamma. That was always a possibility. They *chose* to start a new alliance that actually would have a lower reward tier than Gamma, for their own reasons. Had they jumped straight from Alpha to Gamma, no one could reasonably claim that was an exploit. They jumped from one alliance to the other. But since jumping from Alpha to Gamma is not an exploit, I cannot see how jumping from Alpha to Beta to Gamma is an exploit, because taking this path generates no more rewards for the players involved. If rewards were all they cared about, they could have safely and profitably jumped to Gamma. They jumped to Beta because they wanted to start fresh. But the price of starting fresh became much higher with AW seasons. So they decided to jump to Gamma.
In effect, calling this an exploit is tantamount to saying that Gamma can today recruit from Alpha, but it cannot recruit from Beta. It is saying the even more ludicrous thing that if someone in Beta decided to return to Alpha the day before the seasons announcement and someone else in Beta decided to return to Alpha the day after the seasons announcement, if Gamma recruits the first guy from Alpha that's fine, but recruiting the second guy from Alpha would be an exploit.
That's illogical in the extreme.
You perfectly laid out what i was going to write. Thank you.
Once again this isn’t about one alliance. I don’t really care what an alliance could have done.or should have done If Alliance Alpha Beta or Gamma move to an inactive alliance, why are they allowed to compete in AW with war points they did not earn? The rules posted for the new AW season specify War Rating Points Earned. An inactive Alliance should lose its War Points after x weeks of inactivity. Just as they lose their AQ rank if they don’t participate in AQ for a week.
I have no idea how many other alliances have managed to find inactive Alliances in a higher war tier, but “Beta” alliance can’t be the only players who’ve done this.
Just to be clear. “A member of “Beta” Alliance posted a you tube video to announce that his alliance had found an inactive Alliance with a 1900 war Rating and by moving to that alliance they would jump from Tier 17 to Tier 4. My alliance is in Tier 4 except we had to fight an entire season to go From 0 to T4. It wasn’t fun but we earned our war ranking. It’s not cool that a previously inactive alliance can reactivate with new players and assume the war rating and tier placement of the abandoned alliance.
You didn’t do anything about alliance jumping in AQ and That exploit robbed a bunch of allliances an entire season of AQ rewards. If Kabam is going to allow Alliances to jump tiers by moving to inactive alliances then I want to know now so We can start looking.
I dont understand, can someone explain this in dumbar$e so I know whats happening.
I'm going to vastly oversimplify just to avoid the internal politics of the whole thing. Basically, a bunch of people left a relatively high rated alliance recently and decided to form their own alliance. Ignoring recruiting and such, let's call the original alliance Alpha. They left and formed Beta. Beta is a brand new alliance so of course it starts off in the lowest tiers of AQ and AW, and they were fine with that. But then Kabam announces the new AW system, and the rewards are both very good and highly dependent on which AW tier you were in. Beta's current tier is very low and it would take some time to build up to a high tier. In the meantime, you might be losing out on a lot of AW season rewards.
It occurs to someone in Beta that they have a second account that is parked in an old alliance that still exists, and its old tier is higher than Beta's tier. This old alliance, I will call Gamma, is otherwise empty. The members of Beta take a vote and decide to leave Beta and join Gamma, so in effect everyone in Beta is now in Gamma. Since Gamma has a higher AW tier and rating, they will start the new AW season in a better position.
Some people think this is an exploit, because in one sense Beta magically transformed themselves into Gamma, and instantly boosted its war rating. However, the problem with considering this to be an exploit is the fact that when the members of Beta originally left Alpha, they could have immediately joined Gamma. That was always a possibility. They *chose* to start a new alliance that actually would have a lower reward tier than Gamma, for their own reasons. Had they jumped straight from Alpha to Gamma, no one could reasonably claim that was an exploit. They jumped from one alliance to the other. But since jumping from Alpha to Gamma is not an exploit, I cannot see how jumping from Alpha to Beta to Gamma is an exploit, because taking this path generates no more rewards for the players involved. If rewards were all they cared about, they could have safely and profitably jumped to Gamma. They jumped to Beta because they wanted to start fresh. But the price of starting fresh became much higher with AW seasons. So they decided to jump to Gamma.
In effect, calling this an exploit is tantamount to saying that Gamma can today recruit from Alpha, but it cannot recruit from Beta. It is saying the even more ludicrous thing that if someone in Beta decided to return to Alpha the day before the seasons announcement and someone else in Beta decided to return to Alpha the day after the seasons announcement, if Gamma recruits the first guy from Alpha that's fine, but recruiting the second guy from Alpha would be an exploit.
That's illogical in the extreme.
You perfectly laid out what i was going to write. Thank you.
Once again this isn’t about one alliance. I don’t really care what an alliance could have done.or should have done If Alliance Alpha Beta or Gamma move to an inactive alliance, why are they allowed to compete in AW with war points they did not earn? The rules posted for the new AW season specify War Rating Points Earned. An inactive Alliance should lose its War Points after x weeks of inactivity. Just as they lose their AQ rank if they don’t participate in AQ for a week.
I have no idea how many other alliances have managed to find inactive Alliances in a higher war tier, but “Beta” alliance can’t be the only players who’ve done this.
Just to be clear. “A member of “Beta” Alliance posted a you tube video to announce that his alliance had found an inactive Alliance with a 1900 war Rating and by moving to that alliance they would jump from Tier 17 to Tier 4. My alliance is in Tier 4 except we had to fight an entire season to go From 0 to T4. It wasn’t fun but we earned our war ranking. It’s not cool that a previously inactive alliance can reactivate with new players and assume the war rating and tier placement of the abandoned alliance.
You didn’t do anything about alliance jumping in AQ and That exploit robbed a bunch of allliances an entire season of AQ rewards. If Kabam is going to allow Alliances to jump tiers by moving to inactive alliances then I want to know now so We can start looking.
You should start looking then.
Unless this is something they could rinse and repeat, I don’t view it as an exploit myself.
Alliance Hoppers need to be monitored. Now this is an entire alliance jumping from thier low tiered alliance to one thats higher... this is unfair play.
And for those of you who just say 'ohhh its fine...'
Its not fine. Its cheating, you can call it what you want but thats it. Cheating.
I look forward to seeing ØMNI fail and get defeated in the first season. @Kabam Miike got any input for players?
How is this cheating? Really, I don’t understand.
Yes, maybe it would be smart to have war ratings deteriorate over time, not so that this is less likely to happen, but because not participating should drop you to the bottom.
All they did is went to a different alliance with a higher war rating. And he clearly explained that the new matchmaking system was a big part of that (it isn’t fair to be matched with prestige, this really doesn’t allow you to climb to your proper place on the lader).
The alliance they jumped to, that rating didn’t fall out of the sky. A group of people worked for that, abbonded it and others (who btw used to play in tier 1) happily use that. It’s not like the AQ jumping thing where people would score t4c’s each week and take them away from people that deserved them. It’s not something they can do throughout the season, it’s not something they can (easily) repeat.
I do however think there is something wrong with how aw seasons works and theybig difference in multiplier, but that’s a whole different stroy.
All this outrage is ridiculous. Someone in Omni was in an alliance that earned that war rating. The people in this alliance are all highly skilled and high prestige. This isn't about people circumventing anything. It is amazing the way people over react to things. This is nothing more than a group who have put in the work to reach elite status banding together to reach even higher levels.
So in your tax returns do you pay the full amount of tax you're liable for or do you use the loopholes/clauses/legal methods available to you to reduce it? If you use a LEGAL method to reduce your taxes then you are not breaking any laws, not liable for penalities/punishments.
Likewise they have utilised a method that is available to them to maximise their rewards. I see no problem with this as it is done within the rules kabam has in place. If in light of this Kabam now chooses to change their rules, that is up to them. But as of now they have not broken any rules and the issue does not lie with the alliance for moving to a higher war tier alliance. The issue you have is with Kabam for allowing it to happen. If they moved from the original alliance they were in to the tier 4 one right from the start would you call it cheating still? They are all highly skilled to get to the AQ ranking they did so stop whining about it. If they aren't good enough to win at tier 4 then they'll get knocked down. If not then they get the rewards. Either way they have to win to get the reward right?
But then who made you judge and jury of what's right in Kabam's game? Isn't that up to the owner? This is a moralistic issue for you. Rules have not been broken. What you say is morally wrong may not seem morally wrong to another as it is within the rules. So you can't enforce that because morals have a wide expanse of grey area whereas rules are black and white. Either they broke the rules or they didn't and in this case they didn't.
Comments
Not an exploit = changing alliances to seek harder wars to win against evenly matched opponents
This is simple. A lot of you were annoyed they could just snap their fingers and create a top 10 AQ alliance.
But after AW seasons were announced, you found joy in the fact that they wouldn’t have the war rating to earn season rewards for a top 10 alliance. And now you’re all just mad that they will.
Worry about yourselves. If they don’t belong in tier 1 then they won’t finish there.
It isn’t letting me edit it.
Readers digest version
They shouldn’t just piggyback the rarest rewards in game to an existing system. There should have been some sort of a reset, and some sort of a placement round.
start sharing? Are you being serious? Piloting is the single biggest problem that exists currently.
It won't let you edit after fifteen minutes, and I've also noticed if you try to edit and change only a tiny thing it goes to moderator approval land. I think the forum software has a brain-dead bug where if you try to edit a single word, it triggers the repost filter and thinks you are trying to post something almost identical to a previous post, which is technically true but also dumb.
That’s what happened. I changed a should to shouldn’t. And then poof. But do you agree there should be a reset and placement period?
The problem with this line of thinking applied universally is that no one who jumps to an alliance higher than the one they were originally in gets rewards they worked for. My alliance is currently in tier 8. If a tier 1 alliance recruits me tomorrow, is that fair? Should I be disallowed from being recruited into certain alliances because I don't deserve the rewards they get? Any fairness rule must, unless we're being hilariously hypocritical, be applied fairly to everyone. If it is unfair for a group of players who were in a high tier to jump to a new alliance and then to an alliance in the mid tiers, it would be even more unfair for me to jump into an alliance at a tier I have never so much as been in the same zip code as in my entire playing history. And that's a line I don't think can be safely crossed.
Yes, this really is the gateway drug. I expect every member of this alliance to shortly move to Columbia and become the next big cartel.
I look forward to watching the Netflix documentary on them....."It all started with a simple alliance merger..."
At the moment, no. It sounds simple, but its extremely problematic. You can't just reset everyone's war rating to zero, because then you will have tier 1 (for all intents and purposes here) fighting tier 20 alliances to win and move up in rank. The low alliances will just get crushed for a couple weeks while the ratings sort themselves out. And you can't match by "virtual rating" while reseting everyone's actual war rating because then tier 1 alliances would get matched against each other and their one win will be equal to the one win from a tier 20 alliance. That would place the higher tier alliances at a significant disadvantage. It would take months for an ELO-like system to sort itself out from there.
However we add competitive rewards, the presumption is that the players that win those competitive rewards will come from the pool of the strongest players in the game. The weakest ones aren't realistically going to have a shot at them. That's inherent to a game that emphasizes progress. The rewards for getting better, are better. That's not an intrinsic flaw of the system. This isn't an IROC race.
The best you can probably do practically, is what they are doing. We are technically in the placement phase of AW. We know it is coming, we know there is an advantage to being in a higher AW tier, but at the moment no one is earning points towards the seasonal reward tier. Every alliance is free to jockey for position until the season starts, and no one's multiplier currently counts for anything. Only wins and losses do.
I agree. What we have is an Ally that moved for a fresh start in the Season. My reputation precedes me, and I would usually be the first to speak up against something that is exploitative. I do not agree that this is, simply because we have a discussion about an Ally that moved once, before the beginning of the Season. War is based on cumulative progress. Regardless of the Rating at the time of moving, it takes an adequate amount of work and cumulative Wins to maintain it. The Season lasts for some time, and that will require them to stay and work for said Rewards for the duration of the Season. I find the discussion to be exaggerated around one move, and compounded by other existing issues. If it was a situation where there was repeated abuse of the system, I would be at the front of the line to say something. That's not what we have here, and it's not applicable to the situation.
Once again this isn’t about one alliance. I don’t really care what an alliance could have done.or should have done If Alliance Alpha Beta or Gamma move to an inactive alliance, why are they allowed to compete in AW with war points they did not earn? The rules posted for the new AW season specify War Rating Points Earned. An inactive Alliance should lose its War Points after x weeks of inactivity. Just as they lose their AQ rank if they don’t participate in AQ for a week.
I have no idea how many other alliances have managed to find inactive Alliances in a higher war tier, but “Beta” alliance can’t be the only players who’ve done this.
Just to be clear. “A member of “Beta” Alliance posted a you tube video to announce that his alliance had found an inactive Alliance with a 1900 war Rating and by moving to that alliance they would jump from Tier 17 to Tier 4. My alliance is in Tier 4 except we had to fight an entire season to go From 0 to T4. It wasn’t fun but we earned our war ranking. It’s not cool that a previously inactive alliance can reactivate with new players and assume the war rating and tier placement of the abandoned alliance.
You didn’t do anything about alliance jumping in AQ and That exploit robbed a bunch of allliances an entire season of AQ rewards. If Kabam is going to allow Alliances to jump tiers by moving to inactive alliances then I want to know now so We can start looking.
You should start looking then.
Unless this is something they could rinse and repeat, I don’t view it as an exploit myself.
How is this cheating? Really, I don’t understand.
Yes, maybe it would be smart to have war ratings deteriorate over time, not so that this is less likely to happen, but because not participating should drop you to the bottom.
All they did is went to a different alliance with a higher war rating. And he clearly explained that the new matchmaking system was a big part of that (it isn’t fair to be matched with prestige, this really doesn’t allow you to climb to your proper place on the lader).
The alliance they jumped to, that rating didn’t fall out of the sky. A group of people worked for that, abbonded it and others (who btw used to play in tier 1) happily use that. It’s not like the AQ jumping thing where people would score t4c’s each week and take them away from people that deserved them. It’s not something they can do throughout the season, it’s not something they can (easily) repeat.
I do however think there is something wrong with how aw seasons works and theybig difference in multiplier, but that’s a whole different stroy.
Let’s see Kablaam work around this...
Likewise they have utilised a method that is available to them to maximise their rewards. I see no problem with this as it is done within the rules kabam has in place. If in light of this Kabam now chooses to change their rules, that is up to them. But as of now they have not broken any rules and the issue does not lie with the alliance for moving to a higher war tier alliance. The issue you have is with Kabam for allowing it to happen. If they moved from the original alliance they were in to the tier 4 one right from the start would you call it cheating still? They are all highly skilled to get to the AQ ranking they did so stop whining about it. If they aren't good enough to win at tier 4 then they'll get knocked down. If not then they get the rewards. Either way they have to win to get the reward right?