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The AI has been modified again!? What I’ve noticed...

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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,311 ★★★★★
    That's not what I said. Not everything can be fixed on the side of the server. Lol. I agree, it's veering. As much as I enjoyed having an actual conversation with you for once. :)
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,311 ★★★★★
    edited March 2018
    That's a total misrepresentation of what I said. No one is passing anything off as fact. Nor are my oppositions to the conspiracy theories a violation of the Forum Rules. Those conspiracies are, but we're not here to call each other out. My theories are the same as anyone else's on how the game is designed. Theories. I have a pretty good knowledge base, but nowhere did I imply I'm 100% correct, and my thoughts are fact. I am not trolling. I'm pointing out the same thing that has been stated by them countless times. They're not altering the AI. People can continue to assert that based on their extensive observations, but they have no more proof of that than I do of my own thoughts. There's a difference between sharing theories on mechanics and spreading mistrust. One is not constructive at all.
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    Stagedear85Stagedear85 Posts: 774 ★★★
    JRock808 wrote: »
    I came here to compare my experiences with others but all I can see is someon ewith 7,000 posts attacking others and derailing the thread. Is this what the community has become? It is awful.

    The AI is different. 3 years of muscle memory doesn’t change overnight.

    Thank you, same thing I've been saying my game play didn't change so if im doing the same command and getting different result then obviously its not me, but that 7000 post person either work for kabbam or get a kick out of talking nonsense, i do programming for a living so he must know more than me when it comes to game and how a program operates
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,311 ★★★★★
    Attacking and derailing? Hardly. I'm having a discussion. That doesn't mean I have to feed the idea that they changed it and denied it.
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    realiTicrealiTic Posts: 96
    That's a total misrepresentation of what I said. No one is passing anything off as fact. Nor are my oppositions to the conspiracy theories a violation of the Forum Rules. Those conspiracies are, but we're not here to call each other out. My theories are the same as anyone else's on how the game is designed. Theories. I have a pretty good knowledge base, but nowhere did I imply I'm 100% correct, and my thoughts are fact. I am not trolling. I'm pointing out the same thing that has been stated by them countless times. They're not altering the AI. People can continue to assert that based on their extensive observations, but they have no more proof of that than I do of my own thoughts. There's a difference between sharing theories on mechanics and spreading mistrust. One is not constructive at all.

    So everyone’s observations are conspiracy theories?

    Right after 12.0 when facing AI 5k rating above

    We can not connect specials after 5 hit combo.
    We can no longer parry right after a 5 hit combo.
    AI can double dash forward thus bypassing our evade.
    AI can block mid combo.
    AI can immediately attack after getting hit by a combo or special.
    AI can block or attack right after performing specials or heavy.
    AI can move forward during heavy extending the range.
    AI can do an immediate heavy (we have to hold down first)

    Some of these have been “fixed”, but explain to me how does one update have 8 “bugs” all at one time? And all pertaining to AI behavior? And only the leg twitchy AI have all these “bugs”?
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,311 ★★★★★
    Yes, it's absolutely possible. When there are problems that are persisting and compounding. The fact that people immediately go to the idea that they are messing with it to make it so difficult that our controls don't operate properly is astounding to me. It's not altered to add difficulty. They're literally not functioning properly. It's not hard to see when you stop thinking they're out to get you.
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    Stagedear85Stagedear85 Posts: 774 ★★★
    Yes, it's absolutely possible. When there are problems that are persisting and compounding. The fact that people immediately go to the idea that they are messing with it to make it so difficult that our controls don't operate properly is astounding to me. It's not altered to add difficulty. They're literally not functioning properly. It's not hard to see when you stop thinking they're out to get you.

    you're right , there's a possibility that the game is just not functioning as they intended which happens all the time, i'm just surprise with so many people having the same issue kabbam hasn't came out and say " hey guys we've came to the understanding that many of you is having issues with game play , although we did nothing to change the AI or command on our end we will look into whats going wrong and try to fix it as soon as possible, your input means a lot to us and as a team we hope to have this issue resolve as soon as possible, thanks for your patients and together we can work to make the game play experience even better" . I would take that better than "Under investigation " there's things that's been under investigation since last year.
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    BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 2,320 ★★★★★
    RedBaron99 wrote: »
    Personally I think this has derailed a little into semantics about what we all mean when we say 'AI'. In summary, lots of players think something has changed.

    Rather than arguing and waving our proverbial phalli around and getting angry about something we clearly know very little about, we should, as a previous post suggests, be asking ourselves what questions should we be asking the forums mods, so they can do their thing with the game/development team (or whatever the team is called) to get the answers we need.

    So why not kick off with a recurring theme in this thread:

    Dear Kabam, my opponent in all game modes seems to be evading (dodging back, not spiderman evading) a lot more than I previous have experienced. Has anything changed with the game that could be causing this?

    We all want a game that runs well and doesn't leave us feeling cheated, and short of everyone stopping spending money in protest, being constructive and open to encourage Kabam to do the same is probably the least stressful way of achieving that.

    [edited a typo].

    I agree. Too much focus on jargon rather than intent.
    Building on my earlier post:
    Previously:
    Recovery = 0.75
    F[AI] = if this, then response after Recovery seconds

    Now:
    Recovery = 0.5
    F[AI] = if this, then response after Recovery seconds

    We say “something is different, you’ve changed the ai.”

    The response could have been to (for instance) evade incoming attacks all along, but the recovery was long enough that you would be punching them before the ai would implement it. It would be a lot easier if Kabam just said exactly what changed and said what they do to make the contest difficulty appropriate. To discount everyone’s experience by saying “ai doesn’t get changed without notice. Conspiracy theories to say anything else” or when users say something’s different perhaps it’s ai or block timing replying with some super specific thing that you didn’t do rather than saying what you did do. That’s the tactic my little boy uses to try and get out of trouble and it doesn’t work.
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    EvangelionlovrEvangelionlovr Posts: 481 ★★★
    Mmx1991 wrote: »
    There's a difference between saying something is different, and saying they're altering it and not being honest about it. Something that's hard to grasp for some.

    If the AI is literally BEHAVING differently (ie. using dexterity evades 4x as much as a year ago), then Kabam must have changed the AI to do this, unless of course you're implying that they didn't and that the AI is actually self aware and learn behaviors themselves without human intervention, lmao.

    YOUR theory is the conspiracy theory, not ours. Either Kabam is changing the AI or not. It doesn't happen by itself. AI doesn't dex evade 4x as much over a year by itself.

    It's just like iRobot. Pretty soon the AI is going to force us to stay in our homes for our own safety.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,311 ★★★★★
    edited March 2018
    Mmx1991 wrote: »
    They're not altering the AI. People can continue to assert that based on their extensive observations, but they have no more proof of that than I do of my own thoughts.

    Stop thinking in such narrow minded ways. All your talk is predefined and resistant to change.

    Example:

    "They're not altering the AI cause the developer said so and because the developer said so it must be true. Case closed".

    "Because the developer is right, any other ideas is by definition a conspiracy theory. Look up the definition of conspiracy.".

    "The developer is right and you're all conspiracy nuts" is basically your whole take on this ad nauseam.

    It's 2-bit thinking man. Stop it. Slapping together a few incoherent ideas and passing it off as critical thinking doesn't do you or anyone else any good.

    My thinking is neither incoherent, critical, narrow-minded, or resistant to change. What isn't doing any good is continuing to maintain the assertion that they're altering the AI and deceiving us. You've been campaigning that for weeks, if not months now. You're not the only one of course. It's conspiracy, plain and simple. No questions, rational debate, objective observations, just accusations and confirmation bias. If conversations stated observations, they would be a great deal more productive. There's no useful discussion in being adamant that they are not being honest.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,311 ★★★★★
    Yes. That's what I would call bugs. 12.0 is not a cornerstone for every problem that exists in the game. Observations are not conspiracy theories, no. The observations you just stated were pretty objective. That's not what has been continually maintained previously. "They've upped the AI. The AI has been changed over time. They've changed the mechanics.". All of that would be because they have said I don't know how many times now that they have not made any changes to the AI. It's entirely possible for there to be that many bugs and problems that persist and compound which affect other mechanics. Using 12.0 as a reference point just rehashes old reactions and quite frankly, there were issues before that. The point I'm making is theories or not, their comments are about as close to fact as we can get, and asserting they're not being forthright just spirals discussions downward. We do not have any evidence that they have changed anything intentionally. All we know is the game is behaving in a way that's not working properly, and the problems are worsening. No developer of sound mind would willingly and knowingly alter the product so as to worsen its quality over time. That's not even an idea I will entertain. They're not living in a bubble. They can see the effects. That doesn't mean it's the result of intent and it doesn't mean they can fix it. It also doesn't mean that because it's not fixed, it's intentional.
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    mAleksandarmAleksandar Posts: 86
    You wanted harder content, they provided... I don’t see any problems with the changes, yeah, I noticed them too, and yes, they are frustrating time to time but they are making the game more interesting for me at the same time. Of course, AI shouldn’t be able to do the things we can’t but still, those bugs aside, being vary of AI intercepting you, or AI slapping you in the face with special while you’re trying to intercept is something that makes me not play the game automatically and without thinking... And why wouldn’t they be able to dash back twice? Are you able to do it?
    Aren’t you getting bored with parry, combo, parry, combo, parry, combo, special and round and round and round we go?
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,311 ★★★★★
    edited March 2018
    No, observations are not conspiracy theories. Conspiracy theories based on observations are.
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    dorkpooldorkpool Posts: 5
    Can all of y'all arguing back and forth about semantics, just stop, and lets focus on the fact **** ain't working like its supposed to? Intentional or not? Focus on reporting the changes, cause either way its affecting performance and causing people to waste items or units.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,311 ★★★★★
    No, observations are not conspiracy theories. Conspiracy theories based on observations are.

    Sorry, my comment wasn't showing up on Mobile and I thought it disappeared. Disregard the double response.
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    mAleksandarmAleksandar Posts: 86
    dorkpool wrote: »
    You wanted harder content, they provided... I don’t see any problems with the changes, yeah, I noticed them too, and yes, they are frustrating time to time but they are making the game more interesting for me at the same time. Of course, AI shouldn’t be able to do the things we can’t but still, those bugs aside, being vary of AI intercepting you, or AI slapping you in the face with special while you’re trying to intercept is something that makes me not play the game automatically and without thinking... And why wouldn’t they be able to dash back twice? Are you able to do it?
    Aren’t you getting bored with parry, combo, parry, combo, parry, combo, special and round and round and round we go?

    Disagree, harder content should come in the form of harder quests, not changing the baseline way the AI fights. Its like changing the rules as you go. No one liked that kid on the playground. I dont think this is on purpose, but these bugs/changes suck.

    It’s your right to disagree but tell me one thing, why wouldn’t they change the way AI fights? This game is always evolving and it’s about time we see something new in the way they’re moving, fighting... Or you don’t like to change your routine that much?
    Of course the bugs should be fixed and they should make things transparent with fight mechanics changes, and not really in a clear way, just a simple statement that AI movements will change every now and then. It’s quite simple actually, you adapt after a while, they change it, you get surprised now and then, you adapt again, they change it again... It should be like that if you ask me. Again, bugs aside, imo nothing has changed in what you can do with your champ, they just changed the way you have to approach every fight now and for me that’s actually interesting 😉
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    Mmx1991Mmx1991 Posts: 674 ★★★★
    A thread from August 2017 complaining about the same issues:

    http://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/91622

    jw9ztekkfqf2.jpg

    So combat mechanics ARE being overhauled!
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    Mmx1991Mmx1991 Posts: 674 ★★★★
    I can't square "nothing has been changed" with "an overhaul of in-game combat mechanics".
This discussion has been closed.