New Iron man too Overpowered

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  • TempestTempest Posts: 295
    edited May 2018
    Neither of those nodes increase the time armour is up therefore making your point about armour falling off faster moot.

    It doesn’t matter if he gets 1 stack or 8, he still autoblocks you and the armour isn’t consumed. So he just autoblocks you again and again, parrying you.

    When fights in Aw get you 150k health that 15% health is a heck of a long time if you don’t get a good special in.

    76% is in your favour yes, but that’s only assuming one hit. The chances that in a 5 hit combo he won’t trigger armour is 25%. The chances that after 10 hits he won’t trigger armour is 6%. He has a 75% chance to stun you in 1 combo and a 94% chance to stun you in 2 combos.

    Again, I don’t know why you keep bringing this up. Literally nobody has said he’s Op in attack. I love his mechanics, the stacking and reapplying plasma. But his sig ability is frankly just moneygrabbing. It benefits the AI predominantly and is only there to remove the skill of a player as a factor. His sig needs to be changed so that he can’t parry on auto block. The normal 4 stacks of armour autoblock parry is fine.

    I literally don't recall all the buffs, you asked so I told you what I remember. I thought the armor node increased proc or duration, so if that is not true then I apologize. it just felt longer compared to when I was testing him. those two nodes at the least make him much harder to fight, regardless of whether they affect duration. that's why I remember them and why they are relevant, since we're talking about his capability as a defender.

    it doesnt matter if he gets 1 or 8 stacks, because they all expire at the same time. you specifically mentioned 8, so I merely highlighted that it is not always 8. Not that it has anything to do with his autoblock.

    I'm not sure probability works that way... every hit he receives, you have a 24% chance of triggering armor up. This chance does not stack. It's still a high chance at 24% of course. The autoblock is 100% at under 15% health with any armor up and CAN parry, but what are the chances that it WILL parry? Not trying to be sarcastic here, genuine question. If it's 100% an autoblock will also parry, then yes, it's going to be tough to skill around, unless you bring the right champ.

    His attacks are low damage comparatively without the shock/ incinerate/ plasma, which is a way he balances out a bit. If his attack was very high then yes, he would be very OP. Initially I thought he would gain power at 15% all the way to his L3, but later realized that his armor falls off quickly, so if you are careful to keep his power low, you can prevent him from getting his L3.

    Fair enough about buffed health nodes in AW, though for the largest health boost he would be on one of the boss nodes. Wonder if that's really the best place to put him, or to hide him in some other node with a more devious buff.

    Post edited by Kabam Zanzibar on
  • TempestTempest Posts: 295
    NevvB wrote: »
    Gains armor every 2 seconds, can’t hit into his block. After 4 armors auto parry to remove (1) armor and repeat.
    Balanced.

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    Hmm very interesting. So the explosive personality part isn't the problem (since it only affects armor ups generated by block), but the aggression: armor?
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 2,938 ★★★★★
    Tempest wrote: »
    Neither of those nodes increase the time armour is up therefore making your point about armour falling off faster moot.

    It doesn’t matter if he gets 1 stack or 8, he still autoblocks you and the armour isn’t consumed. So he just autoblocks you again and again, parrying you.

    When fights in Aw get you 150k health that 15% health is a hell of a long time if you don’t get a good special in.

    76% is in your favour yes, but that’s only assuming one hit. The chances that in a 5 hit combo he won’t trigger armour is 25%. The chances that after 10 hits he won’t trigger armour is 6%. He has a 75% chance to stun you in 1 combo and a 94% chance to stun you in 2 combos.

    Again, I don’t know why you keep bringing this up. Literally nobody has said he’s Op in attack. I love his mechanics, the stacking and reapplying plasma. But his sig ability is frankly just moneygrabbing. It benefits the AI predominantly and is only there to remove the skill of a player as a factor. His sig needs to be changed so that he can’t parry on auto block. The normal 4 stacks of armour autoblock parry is fine.

    I literally don't recall all the buffs, you asked so I told you what I remember. I thought the armor node increased proc or duration, so if that is not true then I apologize. it just felt longer compared to when I was testing him. those two nodes at the least make him much harder to fight, regardless of whether they affect duration. that's why I remember them and why they are relevant, since we're talking about his capability as a defender.

    it doesnt matter if he gets 1 or 8 stacks, because they all expire at the same time. you specifically mentioned 8, so I merely highlighted that it is not always 8. Not that it has anything to do with his autoblock.

    I'm not sure probability works that way... every hit he receives, you have a 24% chance of triggering armor up. This chance does not stack. It's still a high chance at 24% of course. The autoblock is 100% at under 15% health with any armor up and CAN parry, but what are the chances that it WILL parry? Not trying to be sarcastic here, genuine question. If it's 100% an autoblock will also parry, then yes, it's going to be tough to skill around, unless you bring the right champ.

    His attacks are low damage comparatively without the shock/ incinerate/ plasma, which is a way he balances out a bit. If his attack was very high then yes, he would be very OP. Initially I thought he would gain power at 15% all the way to his L3, but later realized that his armor falls off quickly, so if you are careful to keep his power low, you can prevent him from getting his L3.

    Fair enough about buffed health nodes in AW, though for the largest health boost he would be on one of the boss nodes. Wonder if that's really the best place to put him, or to hide him in some other node with a more devious buff.

    I appreciate you don’t remember I was just correcting you. Enhanced armour makes the armour reduce more damage, not last longer. Kinetic reactor gives power when striking attackers block. Neither makes it last longer.

    Actually that is how probability works. I agree that it doesn’t stack. As in, after 4 hits it isn’t 96% chance to parry you and after 5 it’s 100%. But, let me explain it

    In 1 hit you have a 24% chance to trigger and a 76% not to. In 2 hits you have two instances where he can parry you. So the chances of him not triggering is 0.76 multiplied by 0.76 which is 0.57. Meaning there is a 57% chance for him not to trigger on both of the hits.

    In 5 hits you have 5 instances where he can trigger parry so that means the chances of him not triggering is 0.76 x 0.76 x 0.76 x 0.76 x 0.76 which equals 0.254 or a 25.4% chance for him not to parry you.

    So we can see that the percentage chance for him not to parry you over X amount of hits is 0.76 to the power of X (or multiplied by itself X amount of times)

    So with ten hits, 0.76 to the power of ten is 0.064 or a 6.4% chance not to stun you.


    It is also a guaranteed parry if he autoblocks, unless you have assassin which reduces it by 18%.

    On boss nodes it doesn’t matter if his attack is low, 1 combo will still ko you.
  • BlackŁotusBlackŁotus Posts: 16
    He might be overpowered but what if you have him your still going to use him.
  • GreywardenGreywarden Posts: 755 ★★★
    Deadbyrd9 wrote: »
    We have a 4* IMIF on defense. He’s gotten 28 kills combined from just 2 wars. We are a 2700+ rated alliance. People just don’t know how to fight him

    Where were you placing him that gave people so much trouble?
  • Deadbyrd9Deadbyrd9 Posts: 3,460 ★★★★
    edited May 2018
    @Greywarden the explosive personality node
  • PaytoPlayPaytoPlay Posts: 770 ★★★
    Tempest wrote: »
    NevvB wrote: »
    Gains armor every 2 seconds, can’t hit into his block. After 4 armors auto parry to remove (1) armor and repeat.
    Balanced.

    f9gf2ogsja89.png

    Hmm very interesting. So the explosive personality part isn't the problem (since it only affects armor ups generated by block), but the aggression: armor?

    The explosives personality is one of the problems. Auto block counts as a block so you not only get auto parry and become defenseless your explosive personality armor counter will go up as well.... Getting you closer to KO
  • ThatGuy214ThatGuy214 Posts: 244
    @Kabam Miike can we get a response to this topic
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 2,938 ★★★★★
    Tempest wrote: »
    Tempest wrote: »
    So, it turns out IMIW is not OP at all now... I guess we should all have waited to play him before passing judgment!

    It wasn’t that he was too OP as an attacker, it was about defence. At least read the thread before acting so high and mighty.

    Don't get you.. he is not OP either way (attack or defense)... his armor falls off quick... and it is not an easy rotation to get the plasma, you think that AI playing for you on defense is gonna get it? Don't forget the uncollected version was on a buffed node that included kinetic reactor and enhanced armor up amongst other things.

    When he reaches 15% health he will be awful. He has a 24% chance to gain one stack of armour on a hit, even if you wait it out he still has a 24% chance to parry you. That’s 1 in 4. So every 4 hits he will stun you and then have a full combo. In Aw that’s enough to Ko you.

    Imagine if Spider-Man stunned you every time he evaded you, that’s what we are looking at with IMIW.

    The issue isn’t plasma, the issue is waiting out his armour, then hitting him and having a 24% chance to be parried. The uncollected boss had enough people complaining about him and he couldn’t even parry you. The fact you can’t see this being an issue means you either are ignoring how bad this will be or you don’t fully understand.

    No it isn't 1 in every 4, the odds aren't based like that. It's 24% chance on every hit, do that doesn't mean 2 hits it goes to 48% chance.

    It could happen 4 hits in a row, and then it could not happen 20 hits in a row.

    Just because it says a 24% chance it doesn't go up in % with each hit after the first.

    Just in case you aren’t being pedantic for the fun of it, I understand probability. I was simplifying it down to a level where it’s averaged. I gave a real example of the average number of hits it will usually be before you get parried.
  • TempestTempest Posts: 295

    It is also a guaranteed parry if he autoblocks, unless you have assassin which reduces it by 18%.

    On boss nodes it doesn’t matter if his attack is low, 1 combo will still ko you.

    Wow, it's guaranteed? Yea, that would suck. lol. So would you place him on tile 38 or boss node? I would like to try it out and see how it works before continuing this fruitful discussion. Also want to duel him now that we have a target. Thanks!


  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    Man this dude is next level....
    Quake no good cus no evade....
    Medusa armor shattered doesnt work....
    Blade no good cus he is not villian....
    AA is hard cus its hard to parry heavy and neuro him.....

    Maybe karnak with true strike is a good option?

    Everyone said iron man was ****
    Everyone wanted a new iron man
    Kabam finally listened
    Everyone complains...... lol

    Its funny... but seriously he may be a bit much to handle...
  • TempestTempest Posts: 295
    @BitterSteel is it confirmed that he can auto block/ parry on the same hit where he receives an armor up?
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    edited May 2018
    Tempest wrote: »
    @BitterSteel is it confirmed that he can auto block/ parry on the same hit where he receives an armor up?

    I am gunna go with no he cant..... at this point.....
    I have had him auto block during the middle of medusas sp2 on a few occasions now....
    However they are multi hit special and he has gained the armour up on one hit and then auto correct blocked on the following hit.... so yes it is the same “attack” however being a multi hit special it is not the same hit.

    Eg1.

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    Eg2.

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    mlctaba2yip2.png
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 2,938 ★★★★★
    Tempest wrote: »
    @BitterSteel is it confirmed that he can auto block/ parry on the same hit where he receives an armor up?

    Because almost everyone has assassin mastery we can’t tell for sure until it’s confirmed by kabam, or someone goes in without assassin. I’d love to be wrong about it, but I don’t see why it wouldn’t.
  • ChampioncriticChampioncritic Posts: 3,223 ★★★★
    you can armor shatter with Medusa to stop him from gaining armor right?
  • TempestTempest Posts: 295
    Tempest wrote: »
    @BitterSteel is it confirmed that he can auto block/ parry on the same hit where he receives an armor up?

    Because almost everyone has assassin mastery we can’t tell for sure until it’s confirmed by kabam, or someone goes in without assassin. I’d love to be wrong about it, but I don’t see why it wouldn’t.

    @BitterSteel You mentioned assassin lowers it by 18%, so we should still be able to get an instance where he does it, if it can be achieved. I tried a small handful of times and he keeps dying instead of auto blocking so I haven't been able to confirm. And I ran out of duel credits.

    A big sticking point you mentioned is this 24% chance to auto parry even without any current armors up.. Hope we can test this out soon..

    @Maat1985 experience is it doesn't do it on the actual hit but the following one
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    you can armor shatter with Medusa to stop him from gaining armor right?

    No

    Medusa armor shatter stops armor buffs from being gained
    Iron mans armor is not a buff it is a passive ability.

    I have tried and tested this and he still gains armor while shattered
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    Tempest wrote: »
    Tempest wrote: »
    @BitterSteel is it confirmed that he can auto block/ parry on the same hit where he receives an armor up?

    Because almost everyone has assassin mastery we can’t tell for sure until it’s confirmed by kabam, or someone goes in without assassin. I’d love to be wrong about it, but I don’t see why it wouldn’t.

    @BitterSteel You mentioned assassin lowers it by 18%, so we should still be able to get an instance where he does it, if it can be achieved. I tried a small handful of times and he keeps dying instead of auto blocking so I haven't been able to confirm. And I ran out of duel credits.

    A big sticking point you mentioned is this 24% chance to auto parry even without any current armors up.. Hope we can test this out soon..

    @Maat1985 experience is it doesn't do it on the actual hit but the following one

    Yes you are right as far as i can tell
  • Whododo872Whododo872 Posts: 1,040 ★★★
    IMIW’s armor is passive. Medusa can’t shut it off
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    Whododo872 wrote: »
    IMIW’s armor is passive. Medusa can’t shut it off

    Exactly what i said...... and showed the evidence of...
  • rwhackrwhack Posts: 974 ★★★
    Bahamut wrote: »
    We finally get a good defender that doesn’t get crushed by Blade and you’re complaining? Just use Quake or someone with true strike.

    Quake is broken particularly against him.

    Will not work at all as a debuff immune mini.
  • rwhackrwhack Posts: 974 ★★★
    KhanMedina wrote: »
    If he is beatable he is not op

    You know how this game works with revives and potions right? Everyone is beatable if pockets are deep enough.

    Exactly so why is this a post if potions exist? is my point

    The point is AW.

    For alliances at the top level, it’s tough to heal champs. So damage for doing nothing wrong is BS. Players have a right to complain. 2c

    Potions haven’t been addressed and revisited since the beginning. So the potions that were used when 4 star r4’s were the top players champs are still the same potions today. Healing a 5* r4 or r5 takes a lot of potions and item use is capped at 15. You can’t buy your way through AW.

    It’s long overdue for % of health potions but that’s off topic.

    Yeah. Your point in pots is spot on.
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    Quake will not work against him cus his repulsor attacks cannot be evaded
  • LovingkidLovingkid Posts: 330
    Usually i am with u guys but 2 days ago my luck was answerd in contest and i got 5* kill-monger out of 900 units , and let me tell u hes dope
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    rwhack wrote: »
    KhanMedina wrote: »
    If he is beatable he is not op

    You know how this game works with revives and potions right? Everyone is beatable if pockets are deep enough.

    Exactly so why is this a post if potions exist? is my point

    The point is AW.

    For alliances at the top level, it’s tough to heal champs. So damage for doing nothing wrong is BS. Players have a right to complain. 2c

    Potions haven’t been addressed and revisited since the beginning. So the potions that were used when 4 star r4’s were the top players champs are still the same potions today. Healing a 5* r4 or r5 takes a lot of potions and item use is capped at 15. You can’t buy your way through AW.

    It’s long overdue for % of health potions but that’s off topic.

    Yeah. Your point in pots is spot on.
    This isnt the topic for this discussion but i would disagree i would argue his point about pots is wrong.
    You should not be able to just heal and heal and heal to survive aw. Aw should be about skill. It should be then best ally wins not the richest.
    I dont believe the problem is with the cost of or the limited number of pots.
    The problem is the fact that champs do unavoidable damage. Champs that auto blocl, champs that cause degen and such are just bs for war and really shouldnt be there.
    The better solution would be to not have stupid op abilities. Enusre that every ability a champ has can be countered with enoug skill. And not allow revives or potions in AW. That way how many units or how much money someone has plays no part in who wins. It will be as simple as the most skilled alliance wins.
    Obviously champs with auto block abailires and unavoidable damage do not allow this to happen.
    I propose this.
    Abilites that cause skilled players to take unavoidable damage should be nullified in war and revives and potions can f off. This way skill will always win

    But this is not the thread for that discussion. So lets leave it there and stay on topic. If anyone wishes to discuss this further i suggest starting a new topic.
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    Lets look at and try and find ways to effectively fight this mofo.
    I wiuld think karnak would be good but i dont have a strong one to test it
  • NguyenDauNguyenDau Posts: 248
    Any1 tested Thor against him =?
    Elektra
    Mordo /for the stun part.... more armor ups = more dmg if u reach to do sp2 on him
    Voodoo
    Magik

    Im sure some will come op with a counter.
    I remember all screamed with GG and node 24 was around.. now.. ú barely see a GG anymore on that node..
  • sawe5456sawe5456 Posts: 30
    I am actually pissed to get 5karnak from evo crystal
    Then this thread gave me hope
    But still upping karnak to 4/55 seems daunting
  • Haji_SaabHaji_Saab Posts: 4,578 ★★★★★
    edited May 2018
    rwhack wrote: »
    IMIF was created to counter every AW attacker:

    Quake: can’t evade...designed to mess her over

    Bishop: can’t absorb energy against tech opponents. Absorbs no energy not just less. Parry gives him no charges. Bear in mind other than class disadvantage cosmic heroes get nothing on IMIF. No penalty whatsoever.

    Corvus Glaive: too few Glaive charges to do any real damage after a few blocks and hits even though he has armor break.

    Proxima Midnight: true accuracy too tricky to use predictably.

    Iceman: no coldsnap with armor up

    Any bleed champ: no bleed with armor up.

    Karnak is a counter but he absolutely sucks and his true strike wears off when you’re probably gonna need it. Killmonger maybe but he can’t bleed him and you’re gonna need that true strike up and running.

    I’d like to apply for the newly created position of minister of fun at Kabam. You need one. Nothing about this screams fun and lining up heroes like proxima, corvus, and bishop to be weak against this champ was the opposite of fun.

    At some point making the game fun should be a priority. It’s simply is not.

    What about big daddy Hyperion?

    Also, Killmonger won't have true strike as you cannot punish Iron man's specials.
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