New Iron man too Overpowered

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  • ItsTheBroskiItsTheBroski Posts: 453 ★★
    Maat1985 wrote: »
    The problem is simple.....
    Autoblock parry = BS
    Skilled fighters get punished and you end up not being able to attack....
    Autoblock is annoying but you can deal with it....
    But
    Get IM down to say 10% whilst you are on 100%.... autoblock, parry, combo, repeat once or twice more then cop an sp3....
    so you have suddenly go from showcasing your skill and beating a difficult champ to just straight up being ###### in the ### and demolished for not doing anything other than landing wat shojld have been a sare hit.... your skill is punished...
    Parry is supposed to be a reward for skilled fighting.... not a BS rng thing..... at this point i would rather parry removed from the game.... and that say something as i am a parry based fighter....

    Something like cap with his parry stacks and insane damage are totally different cus yes it may waste you in a second but you can avoid it if you have skill.
    To avoid damage autoblock parry requires the right champ (we dont even know who that is atm) and good rng that things work in your favor

    Bring Mordo or Karnak or maybe Quake. It's not impossible just you need the right champs.
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    Somfar my best has been with my elektra.... smash him with an sp2 or sp3 when he is a little above 15% and then stay the #### away while he bleed does the rest
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    edited May 2018
    Maat1985 wrote: »
    The problem is simple.....
    Autoblock parry = BS
    Skilled fighters get punished and you end up not being able to attack....
    Autoblock is annoying but you can deal with it....
    But
    Get IM down to say 10% whilst you are on 100%.... autoblock, parry, combo, repeat once or twice more then cop an sp3....
    so you have suddenly go from showcasing your skill and beating a difficult champ to just straight up being ###### in the ### and demolished for not doing anything other than landing wat shojld have been a sare hit.... your skill is punished...
    Parry is supposed to be a reward for skilled fighting.... not a BS rng thing..... at this point i would rather parry removed from the game.... and that say something as i am a parry based fighter....

    Something like cap with his parry stacks and insane damage are totally different cus yes it may waste you in a second but you can avoid it if you have skill.
    To avoid damage autoblock parry requires the right champ (we dont even know who that is atm) and good rng that things work in your favor

    Bring Mordo or Karnak or maybe Quake. It's not impossible just you need the right champs.

    Quake is no good cus he cant evade his repulsors

    Everyone keeps saying karnak and that is all.
    So 5% of the of the player bas have a strong larnak and may be able to beat him easily....
    Another 10% have to struggle to farm resources to power up karnak.....
    The other 85% get smashed eternally as rng will not even give them a karnak....

    We need more options than one champ....

    Besides it doesnt change the fact this is a cheap mechanic. Parry is a mastery that is supposed to reward good skill.
    Not something like this...
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 2,937 ★★★★★
    Maat1985 wrote: »
    The problem is simple.....
    Autoblock parry = BS
    Skilled fighters get punished and you end up not being able to attack....
    Autoblock is annoying but you can deal with it....
    But
    Get IM down to say 10% whilst you are on 100%.... autoblock, parry, combo, repeat once or twice more then cop an sp3....
    so you have suddenly go from showcasing your skill and beating a difficult champ to just straight up being ###### in the ### and demolished for not doing anything other than landing wat shojld have been a sare hit.... your skill is punished...
    Parry is supposed to be a reward for skilled fighting.... not a BS rng thing..... at this point i would rather parry removed from the game.... and that say something as i am a parry based fighter....

    Something like cap with his parry stacks and insane damage are totally different cus yes it may waste you in a second but you can avoid it if you have skill.
    To avoid damage autoblock parry requires the right champ (we dont even know who that is atm) and good rng that things work in your favor

    Bring Mordo or Karnak or maybe Quake. It's not impossible just you need the right champs.
    For the 17th time in this thread, quake cannot fight him his medium attack cannot trigger evade. You charge your heavy and he hits you. May as well throw units at him.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 2,937 ★★★★★
    13_Dub wrote: »
    Lmaooo such babies... FINALLY get a defensive hero champ and everyone runs and cry’s! I don’t hear anyone saying the new Cap is too OP with the 5 parry stack and sp2 wasting u with 50k damage??

    That’s because it’s not a BS ability that takes skill out of the game. You have to fight well and in the right style, be able to hold enough kinetic charges and then charge a heavy and launch SP2. That requires a certain level of skill. Iron man just parries you. He stuns you for literally hitting him. That is OP.
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    I would guess the only people here defending imiw are those who have him or those who are
    Gunna grind arena for him....
    Even then alot who have him openly admit his is ######
  • TempestTempest Posts: 295
    Do we know yet if he auto parries on the same hit in which he gains an armor (when under 15% health)?
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    Tempest wrote: »
    Do we know yet if he auto parries on the same hit in which he gains an armor (when under 15% health)?

    From all my testing it has never shown to be same hit....
    Can be the same attack in a multi hit special but it has so far proved to not happen on the same hit that gains his armor charge. If he already has one armor he can gain an armor and autoblock on the same hit....
  • TempestTempest Posts: 295
    Maat1985 wrote: »
    Tempest wrote: »
    Do we know yet if he auto parries on the same hit in which he gains an armor (when under 15% health)?

    From all my testing it has never shown to be same hit....
    Can be the same attack in a multi hit special but it has so far proved to not happen on the same hit that gains his armor charge. If he already has one armor he can gain an armor and autoblock on the same hit....

    Yea you had said but I thought it might be different if it was not from hits from a special attack..

    Hmm interesting. So this makes it seem that he can be skilled around, just have to fight it the same way you would fight an evading champ.. Attack slower and watch for the armor up.
  • ChampioncriticChampioncritic Posts: 3,222 ★★★★
    Wouldn't crossbones be a decent counter? If you can stack and maintain 5 fury buffs,You can prevent auto block from triggering
  • mostlyharmlessnmostlyharmlessn Posts: 855 ★★★
    Autoblock is one thing, it's the getting parried to death is completely a different story.

  • ChampioncriticChampioncritic Posts: 3,222 ★★★★
    If he cannot auto block, he cannot parry
  • linuxlinux Posts: 281
    Tempest wrote: »
    Do we know yet if he auto parries on the same hit in which he gains an armor (when under 15% health)?

    I wasn't sure, but after testing again -- it has to be a separate hit. So one hit gets armor up, the next hit uses it to parry. But I do have video showing that a medium attack (medusa, MLM 3rd attack has her bending down and swinging her hair around -- it looks different from MLL) results in a parry rather than an armor break. So you have to make contact to break armor, and if you try a M when IMIW has an armor up I believe you'll get parried.

    You have to wait till either (1) IMIW is stunned or (2) you've removed the armor effect before you can do armor break.

    Medusa's armor shattered is supposed to prevent armor up, IIRC. I don't think it does here.

    IMIW was annoying but possible in the UC quest -- harder than the later chapters, but without parry he's not scary. For AWD ... it's entirely possible he'll be a hard block on certain paths, and it's been a while since we've had that. I don't think he's balanced, and I do think this will be a problem -- not because of his base abilities, but because of how they interact (these armor ups aren't buffs, making a huge set of counters unavailable) with existing classes and AW nodes.
  • zackb213zackb213 Posts: 84
    Use killmonger
  • I_ZERO_II_ZERO_I Posts: 104
    zackb213 wrote: »
    Use killmonger

    You can’t hit him after a special to activate true strike. You’d have to use the intercept synergy.

    Even tried the sp1 to become unblockable by just blocking the last atk of his special and got to him but true strike still didn’t activate.
  • linuxlinux Posts: 281
    Bring Mordo or Karnak or maybe Quake. It's not impossible just you need the right champs.

    Have you tried Mordo? Given that you're suggesting Quake, I'm guessing not (Quake obviously won't work). I tried with my 4* ... it's not particularly easy, and would be harder for a node with an aggressive AI or unfavorable built-in buffs. Sure, you can try to wait for power gain -> L3 multiple times, but you'll time out multiple times that way.

    Karnak doesn't have an easy way to get power. I'm not convinced that you can easily use him; my 4* only gets 8.5s of True Strike, and I'd need to do two+ combos to get enough power to do it again. Above 15% -- that's straightforward. Under 15% ... that's going to be brutal.
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    edited May 2018
    @Tempest Skilled around in a sense but an evade champ you hit a couple times and be prepared to stop early 3-4 hit combo....
    if this dude has an armor up each hit is a gamble 1/4 will autoblock......
    So yes you can wait till he has 0
    Armor and then hit amd stop as soon as he gains one but this is going to be slow and tedious as he very often procures one.
    Atleast medusa needs 3 furies and even then you can hit her once for no risk of autoblock.

    @linux medusa armor shattered does not work as i posted before as here armor shattered “prevents the opponnet from gaining armor buff” IMIW armour up is a passive ability not a buff. Her armor break does shatter it. Problem is if he has one armor up his armor can cause autoparry before your armor break would break it.

    As far as using crossbones goes yes 5 furies would stop it but maintaing 5 furies constantly may prove difficult. I will have. To gove my cb a go and test him out.... elektra has proved useful for her ability reduction.

    As i said autoblock is one thing. That is a challenge and ok. Its the parry that sucks the life and fun out of it
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    edited May 2018
    Actually maybe.....

    Medusa MM combo might work......
    Just dueled him 4 times.....
    Took medusa inonce i got him to approx 15% i stopped hitting him. After his armor finished i began hitting him again. Using only M attacks that apply an armor break he never once triggered armor.
    Maybe slow and steady with medusa M attack might be a go.... need to play test this more

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  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    edited May 2018
    Sorry scrap that.....

    He can generate an armor on the same M hit that medusa applies an armour break......
    He does not autoblock on the same hit though....

    But back away when he gets the armour and you will not be parried.

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  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    edited May 2018
    But then here.... she medium hots him..... he gets the armor up but she breaks it instantly and doesnt get parried...
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  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    Gunna keep trying but slow and steady seems to stop it..... wonder wat happens if he is on an armour up node???? Does she armor break first or does he autoblock first???
  • ZarakikZarakik Posts: 170
    Medusa wont work on debuff immune
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    Zarakik wrote: »
    Medusa wont work on debuff immune

    noone will work on debuff immune.......

    atleast she may work on other nodes.......
  • DrOctavius2_2DrOctavius2_2 Posts: 429 ★★
    More like too overhyped
  • linuxlinux Posts: 281
    Maat1985 wrote: »
    Gunna keep trying but slow and steady seems to stop it..... wonder wat happens if he is on an armour up node???? Does she armor break first or does he autoblock first???

    I agree with your analysis above, but I'm pretty sure that a medium attack will fail to connect if IMIW has enough molecular armors to trigger autoblock. That means above 15% -- it'll be OK, you can wait it out. Below 15% ... I think your only chances are stun and heavy.
  • TempestTempest Posts: 295
    Riegel wrote: »
    I'm confused, if we know exactly what will trigger an auto-block parry, why don't we just avoid triggering an auto-block parry?

    Have you fought a high ranked medusa in war? You either have to wait out her Living strands/ fury, or you have to bring a champ that prevents her from gaining those furies. I think the problem is that it is not always easy to wait it out (either the fury or armor up) before you get cornered and comboed, and because IMIW's armor ups are passive, the usual counters like Hood don't work.

    Additionally, with Medusa, you can see the furies build up relatively easily (one every 3 secs), whereas with IMIW at under 15% health, you will get auto parried with only 1 stack of armor and every hit he deals out or receives, there is a 24% chance he will get one. When he is above 15%, I believe he needs 4 stacks, so it's not so bad (other than the armor tile in AW they mention).
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 2,937 ★★★★★
    Riegel wrote: »
    I'm confused, if we know exactly what will trigger an auto-block parry, why don't we just avoid triggering an auto-block parry?

    Have you ever fought Mordo with Scarlet witch, moonknight or gwenpool? We have the same situation here. Part way through your combo you may hit him and cause a stun with these champions. Now, nothing happens until you hit him again. You know that hitting him when he’s stunned will astral evade but you’re already part way through your combo, you can’t react fast enough to stop.

    Iron man will trigger armour and you’ll still get parried even though you see that he’s got an armour buff. You know it would parry you, but you can’t react.
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