New Iron man too Overpowered

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  • RiegelRiegel Posts: 1,089 ★★★★
    Tempest wrote: »
    Riegel wrote: »
    I'm confused, if we know exactly what will trigger an auto-block parry, why don't we just avoid triggering an auto-block parry?

    Have you fought a high ranked medusa in war? You either have to wait out her Living strands/ fury, or you have to bring a champ that prevents her from gaining those furies. I think the problem is that it is not always easy to wait it out (either the fury or armor up) before you get cornered and comboed, and because IMIW's armor ups are passive, the usual counters like Hood don't work.

    Additionally, with Medusa, you can see the furies build up relatively easily (one every 3 secs), whereas with IMIW at under 15% health, you will get auto parried with only 1 stack of armor and every hit he deals out or receives, there is a 24% chance he will get one. When he is above 15%, I believe he needs 4 stacks, so it's not so bad (other than the armor tile in AW they mention).

    Yes, I have fought many 5/65 Medusa's. You take the right champ to fight her though. Very easily killed with: GR, Magik, MS, etc. Correct nullify works best on her, but there are many ways around auto-block parry.

    Riegel wrote: »
    I'm confused, if we know exactly what will trigger an auto-block parry, why don't we just avoid triggering an auto-block parry?

    Have you ever fought Mordo with Scarlet witch, moonknight or gwenpool? We have the same situation here. Part way through your combo you may hit him and cause a stun with these champions. Now, nothing happens until you hit him again. You know that hitting him when he’s stunned will astral evade but you’re already part way through your combo, you can’t react fast enough to stop.

    Iron man will trigger armour and you’ll still get parried even though you see that he’s got an armour buff. You know it would parry you, but you can’t react.

    It's not quite the same though, because you know when the auto-block with IW IM will take place. In your example there is no way of knowing when SW, MK, or GP will land a stun on Mordo. You can't prepare for that. With IW IM you know if he has 4 stacks of armor that's bad, and if he is at 15% HP or below that's bad news.

    My question would be does a noded armor buff count towards the 4 needed for an auto block, and if it does then does that armor also reduce the chance of him getting another armor buff like it should?
  • SuperFarzSuperFarz Posts: 161

    Riegel wrote: »
    Tempest wrote: »
    Riegel wrote: »
    I'm confused, if we know exactly what will trigger an auto-block parry, why don't we just avoid triggering an auto-block parry?

    Have you fought a high ranked medusa in war? You either have to wait out her Living strands/ fury, or you have to bring a champ that prevents her from gaining those furies. I think the problem is that it is not always easy to wait it out (either the fury or armor up) before you get cornered and comboed, and because IMIW's armor ups are passive, the usual counters like Hood don't work.

    Additionally, with Medusa, you can see the furies build up relatively easily (one every 3 secs), whereas with IMIW at under 15% health, you will get auto parried with only 1 stack of armor and every hit he deals out or receives, there is a 24% chance he will get one. When he is above 15%, I believe he needs 4 stacks, so it's not so bad (other than the armor tile in AW they mention).

    Yes, I have fought many 5/65 Medusa's. You take the right champ to fight her though. Very easily killed with: GR, Magik, MS, etc. Correct nullify works best on her, but there are many ways around auto-block parry.

    Riegel wrote: »
    I'm confused, if we know exactly what will trigger an auto-block parry, why don't we just avoid triggering an auto-block parry?

    Have you ever fought Mordo with Scarlet witch, moonknight or gwenpool? We have the same situation here. Part way through your combo you may hit him and cause a stun with these champions. Now, nothing happens until you hit him again. You know that hitting him when he’s stunned will astral evade but you’re already part way through your combo, you can’t react fast enough to stop.

    Iron man will trigger armour and you’ll still get parried even though you see that he’s got an armour buff. You know it would parry you, but you can’t react.

    It's not quite the same though, because you know when the auto-block with IW IM will take place. In your example there is no way of knowing when SW, MK, or GP will land a stun on Mordo. You can't prepare for that. With IW IM you know if he has 4 stacks of armor that's bad, and if he is at 15% HP or below that's bad news.

    My question would be does a noded armor buff count towards the 4 needed for an auto block, and if it does then does that armor also reduce the chance of him getting another armor buff like it should?
    To my understanding he auto blocks after just 1 armor. So how do you want to play around that?
  • Haji_SaabHaji_Saab Posts: 3,454 ★★★★★
    Riegel wrote: »
    Tempest wrote: »
    Riegel wrote: »
    I'm confused, if we know exactly what will trigger an auto-block parry, why don't we just avoid triggering an auto-block parry?

    Have you fought a high ranked medusa in war? You either have to wait out her Living strands/ fury, or you have to bring a champ that prevents her from gaining those furies. I think the problem is that it is not always easy to wait it out (either the fury or armor up) before you get cornered and comboed, and because IMIW's armor ups are passive, the usual counters like Hood don't work.

    Additionally, with Medusa, you can see the furies build up relatively easily (one every 3 secs), whereas with IMIW at under 15% health, you will get auto parried with only 1 stack of armor and every hit he deals out or receives, there is a 24% chance he will get one. When he is above 15%, I believe he needs 4 stacks, so it's not so bad (other than the armor tile in AW they mention).

    Yes, I have fought many 5/65 Medusa's. You take the right champ to fight her though. Very easily killed with: GR, Magik, MS, etc. Correct nullify works best on her, but there are many ways around auto-block parry.

    Riegel wrote: »
    I'm confused, if we know exactly what will trigger an auto-block parry, why don't we just avoid triggering an auto-block parry?

    Have you ever fought Mordo with Scarlet witch, moonknight or gwenpool? We have the same situation here. Part way through your combo you may hit him and cause a stun with these champions. Now, nothing happens until you hit him again. You know that hitting him when he’s stunned will astral evade but you’re already part way through your combo, you can’t react fast enough to stop.

    Iron man will trigger armour and you’ll still get parried even though you see that he’s got an armour buff. You know it would parry you, but you can’t react.

    It's not quite the same though, because you know when the auto-block with IW IM will take place. In your example there is no way of knowing when SW, MK, or GP will land a stun on Mordo. You can't prepare for that. With IW IM you know if he has 4 stacks of armor that's bad, and if he is at 15% HP or below that's bad news.

    My question would be does a noded armor buff count towards the 4 needed for an auto block, and if it does then does that armor also reduce the chance of him getting another armor buff like it should?

    I think you're making the same mistake I initially made when reading his abilities. The sig ability lets him auto-parry with just one armor.
  • TempestTempest Posts: 295
    SuperFarz wrote: »
    To my understanding he auto blocks after just 1 armor. So how do you want to play around that?

    My guess is to wait it out so he has zero. then when you hit him, do it slowly and keep an eye out for when he gets an armor up, and then stop hitting him until it expires. Like fighting a stun immune spidey without an ability reducing champ.

  • AegonTAegonT Posts: 150
    Tempest wrote: »
    SuperFarz wrote: »
    To my understanding he auto blocks after just 1 armor. So how do you want to play around that?

    My guess is to wait it out so he has zero. then when you hit him, do it slowly and keep an eye out for when he gets an armor up, and then stop hitting him until it expires. Like fighting a stun immune spidey without an ability reducing champ.

    Right. But how does fighting slowly and waiting for the armor to fall off work when he gains an armor every 2 seconds on an aw defense node?

    This is the specific interaction that concerns me. I think I have a couple of work arounds in mind, but it sucks the only way to test anything is in the high stakes, mistakes are expensive live alliance war.

    I wish they’d expand the duel functionality to be able to toggle on specific nodes. Both for practice and to just try stupid stuff out
  • SuperFarzSuperFarz Posts: 161
    Tempest wrote: »
    SuperFarz wrote: »
    To my understanding he auto blocks after just 1 armor. So how do you want to play around that?

    My guess is to wait it out so he has zero. then when you hit him, do it slowly and keep an eye out for when he gets an armor up, and then stop hitting him until it expires. Like fighting a stun immune spidey without an ability reducing champ.

    The thing is he has a chance to trigger armor every hit he gets. So you can only 1 hit fight him during the whole fight. 1 hit - no armor?! Great hit him again. 1 hit damn armor wait out. 1 hit again. Now think of the node that gives him free armor meaning you can’t EVER hit him.
  • Mcord117Mcord117 Posts: 1,287 ★★★★
    For what it is worth I can confirm he gets armor buffs whil being armor shattered
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    Maat1985 wrote: »
    Actually maybe.....

    Medusa MM combo might work......
    Just dueled him 4 times.....
    Took medusa inonce i got him to approx 15% i stopped hitting him. After his armor finished i began hitting him again. Using only M attacks that apply an armor break he never once triggered armor.
    Maybe slow and steady with medusa M attack might be a go.... need to play test this more

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    Ok, now try that on the armor gain/explosive personality node in AW and let us know how slow playing goes.

    Just trying to help come up with options. Share what i have found that may or may not help.
    Ur givin me attitude like i am trying to say i magically found the solution and he is now easy.
    Dude i have been saying he is hard and its bs...

    Just trying to help which is better than a single thing you have said in this thread. Help be contstructive instead of destructive.
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    Riegel wrote: »
    I'm confused, if we know exactly what will trigger an auto-block parry, why don't we just avoid triggering an auto-block parry?

    Have you ever fought Mordo with Scarlet witch, moonknight or gwenpool? We have the same situation here. Part way through your combo you may hit him and cause a stun with these champions. Now, nothing happens until you hit him again. You know that hitting him when he’s stunned will astral evade but you’re already part way through your combo, you can’t react fast enough to stop.

    Iron man will trigger armour and you’ll still get parried even though you see that he’s got an armour buff. You know it would parry you, but you can’t react.

    Fight bpcw with these guys and those random stuns are as destructive as this is. The differenc is that is a few champs... and not often.... this is everyone.... and alot...
  • RiegelRiegel Posts: 1,089 ★★★★
    Haji_Saab wrote: »
    Riegel wrote: »
    Tempest wrote: »
    Riegel wrote: »
    I'm confused, if we know exactly what will trigger an auto-block parry, why don't we just avoid triggering an auto-block parry?

    Have you fought a high ranked medusa in war? You either have to wait out her Living strands/ fury, or you have to bring a champ that prevents her from gaining those furies. I think the problem is that it is not always easy to wait it out (either the fury or armor up) before you get cornered and comboed, and because IMIW's armor ups are passive, the usual counters like Hood don't work.

    Additionally, with Medusa, you can see the furies build up relatively easily (one every 3 secs), whereas with IMIW at under 15% health, you will get auto parried with only 1 stack of armor and every hit he deals out or receives, there is a 24% chance he will get one. When he is above 15%, I believe he needs 4 stacks, so it's not so bad (other than the armor tile in AW they mention).

    Yes, I have fought many 5/65 Medusa's. You take the right champ to fight her though. Very easily killed with: GR, Magik, MS, etc. Correct nullify works best on her, but there are many ways around auto-block parry.

    Riegel wrote: »
    I'm confused, if we know exactly what will trigger an auto-block parry, why don't we just avoid triggering an auto-block parry?

    Have you ever fought Mordo with Scarlet witch, moonknight or gwenpool? We have the same situation here. Part way through your combo you may hit him and cause a stun with these champions. Now, nothing happens until you hit him again. You know that hitting him when he’s stunned will astral evade but you’re already part way through your combo, you can’t react fast enough to stop.

    Iron man will trigger armour and you’ll still get parried even though you see that he’s got an armour buff. You know it would parry you, but you can’t react.

    It's not quite the same though, because you know when the auto-block with IW IM will take place. In your example there is no way of knowing when SW, MK, or GP will land a stun on Mordo. You can't prepare for that. With IW IM you know if he has 4 stacks of armor that's bad, and if he is at 15% HP or below that's bad news.

    My question would be does a noded armor buff count towards the 4 needed for an auto block, and if it does then does that armor also reduce the chance of him getting another armor buff like it should?

    I think you're making the same mistake I initially made when reading his abilities. The sig ability lets him auto-parry with just one armor.

    Only when he is at or below 15% HP does one armor trigger auto block. Correct?
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    Just another point to this.....

    Should a casual player really need to read and study an encyclopedia on every champ just to beat them?????
    I understand if you dont read a champs abilities and understand them they will give you a hard time....
    I understand if you lack skill a difficult opponent will gove you a hard time.

    But low level player fighting in low level war will mot stand a chance to get past a champ like this. I would guess if you were in a 3 mil alliance in about tier 9 and had one of these dudes as your boss 9/10 allies would not kill your boss. He should be hard to kill but i would suspect the level of skill and strategy required to effectively counter him will render him indestructible to lower level players. Or stun immune mini aint gunna die.

    My point is not to take away from the headache he gives at high level but also expand this as it affects everyone differently
  • KyleMKyleM Posts: 129
    Not read the whole thing but mordo should be a good counter or bpcw
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 2,897 ★★★★★
    Riegel wrote: »
    Haji_Saab wrote: »
    Riegel wrote: »
    Tempest wrote: »
    Riegel wrote: »
    I'm confused, if we know exactly what will trigger an auto-block parry, why don't we just avoid triggering an auto-block parry?

    Have you fought a high ranked medusa in war? You either have to wait out her Living strands/ fury, or you have to bring a champ that prevents her from gaining those furies. I think the problem is that it is not always easy to wait it out (either the fury or armor up) before you get cornered and comboed, and because IMIW's armor ups are passive, the usual counters like Hood don't work.

    Additionally, with Medusa, you can see the furies build up relatively easily (one every 3 secs), whereas with IMIW at under 15% health, you will get auto parried with only 1 stack of armor and every hit he deals out or receives, there is a 24% chance he will get one. When he is above 15%, I believe he needs 4 stacks, so it's not so bad (other than the armor tile in AW they mention).

    Yes, I have fought many 5/65 Medusa's. You take the right champ to fight her though. Very easily killed with: GR, Magik, MS, etc. Correct nullify works best on her, but there are many ways around auto-block parry.

    Riegel wrote: »
    I'm confused, if we know exactly what will trigger an auto-block parry, why don't we just avoid triggering an auto-block parry?

    Have you ever fought Mordo with Scarlet witch, moonknight or gwenpool? We have the same situation here. Part way through your combo you may hit him and cause a stun with these champions. Now, nothing happens until you hit him again. You know that hitting him when he’s stunned will astral evade but you’re already part way through your combo, you can’t react fast enough to stop.

    Iron man will trigger armour and you’ll still get parried even though you see that he’s got an armour buff. You know it would parry you, but you can’t react.

    It's not quite the same though, because you know when the auto-block with IW IM will take place. In your example there is no way of knowing when SW, MK, or GP will land a stun on Mordo. You can't prepare for that. With IW IM you know if he has 4 stacks of armor that's bad, and if he is at 15% HP or below that's bad news.

    My question would be does a noded armor buff count towards the 4 needed for an auto block, and if it does then does that armor also reduce the chance of him getting another armor buff like it should?

    I think you're making the same mistake I initially made when reading his abilities. The sig ability lets him auto-parry with just one armor.

    Only when he is at or below 15% HP does one armor trigger auto block. Correct?

    Yeah, i was talking about below 15%, I thought it was clear but perhaps not. My mistake. The situation I described is the same as below 15%.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 2,897 ★★★★★
    Riegel wrote: »
    Tempest wrote: »
    Riegel wrote: »
    I'm confused, if we know exactly what will trigger an auto-block parry, why don't we just avoid triggering an auto-block parry?

    Have you fought a high ranked medusa in war? You either have to wait out her Living strands/ fury, or you have to bring a champ that prevents her from gaining those furies. I think the problem is that it is not always easy to wait it out (either the fury or armor up) before you get cornered and comboed, and because IMIW's armor ups are passive, the usual counters like Hood don't work.

    Additionally, with Medusa, you can see the furies build up relatively easily (one every 3 secs), whereas with IMIW at under 15% health, you will get auto parried with only 1 stack of armor and every hit he deals out or receives, there is a 24% chance he will get one. When he is above 15%, I believe he needs 4 stacks, so it's not so bad (other than the armor tile in AW they mention).

    Yes, I have fought many 5/65 Medusa's. You take the right champ to fight her though. Very easily killed with: GR, Magik, MS, etc. Correct nullify works best on her, but there are many ways around auto-block parry.

    Riegel wrote: »
    I'm confused, if we know exactly what will trigger an auto-block parry, why don't we just avoid triggering an auto-block parry?

    Have you ever fought Mordo with Scarlet witch, moonknight or gwenpool? We have the same situation here. Part way through your combo you may hit him and cause a stun with these champions. Now, nothing happens until you hit him again. You know that hitting him when he’s stunned will astral evade but you’re already part way through your combo, you can’t react fast enough to stop.

    Iron man will trigger armour and you’ll still get parried even though you see that he’s got an armour buff. You know it would parry you, but you can’t react.

    It's not quite the same though, because you know when the auto-block with IW IM will take place. In your example there is no way of knowing when SW, MK, or GP will land a stun on Mordo. You can't prepare for that. With IW IM you know if he has 4 stacks of armor that's bad, and if he is at 15% HP or below that's bad news.

    My question would be does a noded armor buff count towards the 4 needed for an auto block, and if it does then does that armor also reduce the chance of him getting another armor buff like it should?

    I think you’re misunderstanding his abilities. He autoblocks on 1 armour under 15%
  • Vale84Vale84 Posts: 308 ★★★
    edited May 2018
    AegonT wrote: »
    Tempest wrote: »
    SuperFarz wrote: »
    To my understanding he auto blocks after just 1 armor. So how do you want to play around that?

    My guess is to wait it out so he has zero. then when you hit him, do it slowly and keep an eye out for when he gets an armor up, and then stop hitting him until it expires. Like fighting a stun immune spidey without an ability reducing champ.

    Right. But how does fighting slowly and waiting for the armor to fall off work when he gains an armor every 2 seconds on an aw defense node?

    This is the specific interaction that concerns me. I think I have a couple of work arounds in mind, but it sucks the only way to test anything is in the high stakes, mistakes are expensive live alliance war.

    I wish they’d expand the duel functionality to be able to toggle on specific nodes. Both for practice and to just try stupid stuff out

    THIS.
    The champ itself is counterable with some skills and preparation pre-fight. I don't even mind the parry on first hit (which is bs tho).
    The two things which are absolutely BAD are

    1)The fact ANY armor buff counts towards autoblock while it should be ONLY molecular armor
    2) The fact that on war or quest nodes with armor stacking it's absolutely broken. You enter the fight knowing that if you can't hit him in 4 seconds you won't for the rest of the fight.

    Now, even preparing a proper counter to this, it's 50% relyant on luck. If you manage a parry immediatly (and the ia is set so he can repulse attack even at zero distance, while it should normally use a light), you'll have a good chanche to win. If anything happens (he backs away and block, for example), then you're done.
    This interaction with the node (38, specifically) is absolutely out of reasonability and needs be addressed, while that said, he was prolly purposedly made for that and to raise the spending bar in aw (there is no other istance in game where you should need to add on his bio that EVERY stack of armor counts for his ability). @Kabam Miike @Kabam Vydious @Kabam Zibiit




    TL/DR: he's an ok champ to fight, but fact he was made for a single aw node which translates in the fight being 100% luck based, and ia based, is intolerable and needs be addressed and fixed.




    PS: before you jump on the hate train, i have the new IM duped and ranked, so it's not a rant. Despite having him, i'm not a fan of unavoidable and completely luck depending fights in a skilled content like seasons. Voids entirely the purpose of the war, and it will SURELY counterfeit loads of wars (and it has already).
    PPS: i suggest kabam, instead of building absurdly broken champs to make the previous two desiderable (corvus and proxima), to actually release good champs instead.
  • RiegelRiegel Posts: 1,089 ★★★★
    Riegel wrote: »
    Tempest wrote: »
    Riegel wrote: »
    I'm confused, if we know exactly what will trigger an auto-block parry, why don't we just avoid triggering an auto-block parry?

    Have you fought a high ranked medusa in war? You either have to wait out her Living strands/ fury, or you have to bring a champ that prevents her from gaining those furies. I think the problem is that it is not always easy to wait it out (either the fury or armor up) before you get cornered and comboed, and because IMIW's armor ups are passive, the usual counters like Hood don't work.

    Additionally, with Medusa, you can see the furies build up relatively easily (one every 3 secs), whereas with IMIW at under 15% health, you will get auto parried with only 1 stack of armor and every hit he deals out or receives, there is a 24% chance he will get one. When he is above 15%, I believe he needs 4 stacks, so it's not so bad (other than the armor tile in AW they mention).

    Yes, I have fought many 5/65 Medusa's. You take the right champ to fight her though. Very easily killed with: GR, Magik, MS, etc. Correct nullify works best on her, but there are many ways around auto-block parry.

    Riegel wrote: »
    I'm confused, if we know exactly what will trigger an auto-block parry, why don't we just avoid triggering an auto-block parry?

    Have you ever fought Mordo with Scarlet witch, moonknight or gwenpool? We have the same situation here. Part way through your combo you may hit him and cause a stun with these champions. Now, nothing happens until you hit him again. You know that hitting him when he’s stunned will astral evade but you’re already part way through your combo, you can’t react fast enough to stop.

    Iron man will trigger armour and you’ll still get parried even though you see that he’s got an armour buff. You know it would parry you, but you can’t react.

    It's not quite the same though, because you know when the auto-block with IW IM will take place. In your example there is no way of knowing when SW, MK, or GP will land a stun on Mordo. You can't prepare for that. With IW IM you know if he has 4 stacks of armor that's bad, and if he is at 15% HP or below that's bad news.

    My question would be does a noded armor buff count towards the 4 needed for an auto block, and if it does then does that armor also reduce the chance of him getting another armor buff like it should?

    I think you’re misunderstanding his abilities. He autoblocks on 1 armour under 15%

    I understand this. I was replying to someone else about the under 15% thing as it didn't seem like they understood that.

    Your examples still are very different as you know if he has armor he will auto block. There are ways around getting auto blocked.
  • RiegelRiegel Posts: 1,089 ★★★★
    Vale84 wrote: »
    AegonT wrote: »
    Tempest wrote: »
    SuperFarz wrote: »
    To my understanding he auto blocks after just 1 armor. So how do you want to play around that?

    My guess is to wait it out so he has zero. then when you hit him, do it slowly and keep an eye out for when he gets an armor up, and then stop hitting him until it expires. Like fighting a stun immune spidey without an ability reducing champ.

    Right. But how does fighting slowly and waiting for the armor to fall off work when he gains an armor every 2 seconds on an aw defense node?

    This is the specific interaction that concerns me. I think I have a couple of work arounds in mind, but it sucks the only way to test anything is in the high stakes, mistakes are expensive live alliance war.

    I wish they’d expand the duel functionality to be able to toggle on specific nodes. Both for practice and to just try stupid stuff out

    THIS.
    The champ itself is counterable with some skills and preparation pre-fight. I don't even mind the parry on first hit (which is bs tho).
    The two things which are absolutely BAD are

    1)The fact ANY armor buff counts towards autoblock while it should be ONLY molecular armor
    2) The fact that on war or quest nodes with armor stacking it's absolutely broken. You enter the fight knowing that if you can't hit him in 4 seconds you won't for the rest of the fight.

    Now, even preparing a proper counter to this, it's 50% relyant on luck. If you manage a parry immediatly (and the ia is set so he can repulse attack even at zero distance, while it should normally use a light), you'll have a good chanche to win. If anything happens (he backs away and block, for example), then you're done.
    This interaction with the node (38, specifically) is absolutely out of reasonability and needs be addressed, while that said, he was prolly purposedly made for that and to raise the spending bar in aw (there is no other istance in game where you should need to add on his bio that EVERY stack of armor counts for his ability). @Kabam Miike @Kabam Vydious @Kabam Zibiit




    TL/DR: he's an ok champ to fight, but fact he was made for a single aw node which translates in the fight being 100% luck based, and ia based, is intolerable and needs be addressed and fixed.




    PS: before you jump on the hate train, i have the new IM duped and ranked, so it's not a rant. Despite having him, i'm not a fan of unavoidable and completely luck depending fights in a skilled content like seasons. Voids entirely the purpose of the war, and it will SURELY counterfeit loads of wars (and it has already).
    PPS: i suggest kabam, instead of building absurdly broken champs to make the previous two desiderable (corvus and proxima), to actually release good champs instead.

    The node needs changed. I agree.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 2,897 ★★★★★
    Riegel wrote: »
    Riegel wrote: »
    Tempest wrote: »
    Riegel wrote: »
    I'm confused, if we know exactly what will trigger an auto-block parry, why don't we just avoid triggering an auto-block parry?

    Have you fought a high ranked medusa in war? You either have to wait out her Living strands/ fury, or you have to bring a champ that prevents her from gaining those furies. I think the problem is that it is not always easy to wait it out (either the fury or armor up) before you get cornered and comboed, and because IMIW's armor ups are passive, the usual counters like Hood don't work.

    Additionally, with Medusa, you can see the furies build up relatively easily (one every 3 secs), whereas with IMIW at under 15% health, you will get auto parried with only 1 stack of armor and every hit he deals out or receives, there is a 24% chance he will get one. When he is above 15%, I believe he needs 4 stacks, so it's not so bad (other than the armor tile in AW they mention).

    Yes, I have fought many 5/65 Medusa's. You take the right champ to fight her though. Very easily killed with: GR, Magik, MS, etc. Correct nullify works best on her, but there are many ways around auto-block parry.

    Riegel wrote: »
    I'm confused, if we know exactly what will trigger an auto-block parry, why don't we just avoid triggering an auto-block parry?

    Have you ever fought Mordo with Scarlet witch, moonknight or gwenpool? We have the same situation here. Part way through your combo you may hit him and cause a stun with these champions. Now, nothing happens until you hit him again. You know that hitting him when he’s stunned will astral evade but you’re already part way through your combo, you can’t react fast enough to stop.

    Iron man will trigger armour and you’ll still get parried even though you see that he’s got an armour buff. You know it would parry you, but you can’t react.

    It's not quite the same though, because you know when the auto-block with IW IM will take place. In your example there is no way of knowing when SW, MK, or GP will land a stun on Mordo. You can't prepare for that. With IW IM you know if he has 4 stacks of armor that's bad, and if he is at 15% HP or below that's bad news.

    My question would be does a noded armor buff count towards the 4 needed for an auto block, and if it does then does that armor also reduce the chance of him getting another armor buff like it should?

    I think you’re misunderstanding his abilities. He autoblocks on 1 armour under 15%

    I understand this. I was replying to someone else about the under 15% thing as it didn't seem like they understood that.

    Your examples still are very different as you know if he has armor he will auto block. There are ways around getting auto blocked.

    How is it different? The situations are very similar.

    You hit the champ and it triggers the effect (stun on Mordo/armour on Iron man). As you are part way through your combo you cannot slow down in time so you hit them. This then triggers the secondary effect (astral evade/autoblock).

    If you’ve ever fought Mordo with gwenpool or scarlet witch or moonknight you’d understand what I mean. Think about how fast you chain on extra hits with your combo.
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    Riegel wrote: »
    Riegel wrote: »
    Tempest wrote: »
    Riegel wrote: »
    I'm confused, if we know exactly what will trigger an auto-block parry, why don't we just avoid triggering an auto-block parry?

    Have you fought a high ranked medusa in war? You either have to wait out her Living strands/ fury, or you have to bring a champ that prevents her from gaining those furies. I think the problem is that it is not always easy to wait it out (either the fury or armor up) before you get cornered and comboed, and because IMIW's armor ups are passive, the usual counters like Hood don't work.

    Additionally, with Medusa, you can see the furies build up relatively easily (one every 3 secs), whereas with IMIW at under 15% health, you will get auto parried with only 1 stack of armor and every hit he deals out or receives, there is a 24% chance he will get one. When he is above 15%, I believe he needs 4 stacks, so it's not so bad (other than the armor tile in AW they mention).

    Yes, I have fought many 5/65 Medusa's. You take the right champ to fight her though. Very easily killed with: GR, Magik, MS, etc. Correct nullify works best on her, but there are many ways around auto-block parry.

    Riegel wrote: »
    I'm confused, if we know exactly what will trigger an auto-block parry, why don't we just avoid triggering an auto-block parry?

    Have you ever fought Mordo with Scarlet witch, moonknight or gwenpool? We have the same situation here. Part way through your combo you may hit him and cause a stun with these champions. Now, nothing happens until you hit him again. You know that hitting him when he’s stunned will astral evade but you’re already part way through your combo, you can’t react fast enough to stop.

    Iron man will trigger armour and you’ll still get parried even though you see that he’s got an armour buff. You know it would parry you, but you can’t react.

    It's not quite the same though, because you know when the auto-block with IW IM will take place. In your example there is no way of knowing when SW, MK, or GP will land a stun on Mordo. You can't prepare for that. With IW IM you know if he has 4 stacks of armor that's bad, and if he is at 15% HP or below that's bad news.

    My question would be does a noded armor buff count towards the 4 needed for an auto block, and if it does then does that armor also reduce the chance of him getting another armor buff like it should?

    I think you’re misunderstanding his abilities. He autoblocks on 1 armour under 15%

    I understand this. I was replying to someone else about the under 15% thing as it didn't seem like they understood that.

    Your examples still are very different as you know if he has armor he will auto block. There are ways around getting auto blocked.

    How is it different? The situations are very similar.

    You hit the champ and it triggers the effect (stun on Mordo/armour on Iron man). As you are part way through your combo you cannot slow down in time so you hit them. This then triggers the secondary effect (astral evade/autoblock).

    If you’ve ever fought Mordo with gwenpool or scarlet witch or moonknight you’d understand what I mean. Think about how fast you chain on extra hits with your combo.

    Would be better to comparing it to fighting BPCW on an armor up node with SW....
    Random stun.... he reflects it... chamces are his reflective armor is stacked and he flogs you
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 2,897 ★★★★★
    Maat1985 wrote: »
    Riegel wrote: »
    Riegel wrote: »
    Tempest wrote: »
    Riegel wrote: »
    I'm confused, if we know exactly what will trigger an auto-block parry, why don't we just avoid triggering an auto-block parry?

    Have you fought a high ranked medusa in war? You either have to wait out her Living strands/ fury, or you have to bring a champ that prevents her from gaining those furies. I think the problem is that it is not always easy to wait it out (either the fury or armor up) before you get cornered and comboed, and because IMIW's armor ups are passive, the usual counters like Hood don't work.

    Additionally, with Medusa, you can see the furies build up relatively easily (one every 3 secs), whereas with IMIW at under 15% health, you will get auto parried with only 1 stack of armor and every hit he deals out or receives, there is a 24% chance he will get one. When he is above 15%, I believe he needs 4 stacks, so it's not so bad (other than the armor tile in AW they mention).

    Yes, I have fought many 5/65 Medusa's. You take the right champ to fight her though. Very easily killed with: GR, Magik, MS, etc. Correct nullify works best on her, but there are many ways around auto-block parry.

    Riegel wrote: »
    I'm confused, if we know exactly what will trigger an auto-block parry, why don't we just avoid triggering an auto-block parry?

    Have you ever fought Mordo with Scarlet witch, moonknight or gwenpool? We have the same situation here. Part way through your combo you may hit him and cause a stun with these champions. Now, nothing happens until you hit him again. You know that hitting him when he’s stunned will astral evade but you’re already part way through your combo, you can’t react fast enough to stop.

    Iron man will trigger armour and you’ll still get parried even though you see that he’s got an armour buff. You know it would parry you, but you can’t react.

    It's not quite the same though, because you know when the auto-block with IW IM will take place. In your example there is no way of knowing when SW, MK, or GP will land a stun on Mordo. You can't prepare for that. With IW IM you know if he has 4 stacks of armor that's bad, and if he is at 15% HP or below that's bad news.

    My question would be does a noded armor buff count towards the 4 needed for an auto block, and if it does then does that armor also reduce the chance of him getting another armor buff like it should?

    I think you’re misunderstanding his abilities. He autoblocks on 1 armour under 15%

    I understand this. I was replying to someone else about the under 15% thing as it didn't seem like they understood that.

    Your examples still are very different as you know if he has armor he will auto block. There are ways around getting auto blocked.

    How is it different? The situations are very similar.

    You hit the champ and it triggers the effect (stun on Mordo/armour on Iron man). As you are part way through your combo you cannot slow down in time so you hit them. This then triggers the secondary effect (astral evade/autoblock).

    If you’ve ever fought Mordo with gwenpool or scarlet witch or moonknight you’d understand what I mean. Think about how fast you chain on extra hits with your combo.

    Would be better to comparing it to fighting BPCW on an armor up node with SW....
    Random stun.... he reflects it... chamces are his reflective armor is stacked and he flogs you
    It’s different with BPCW just because his stun reflects instantly. If you stun him, he reflects right away. That’s different to Mordo because you get one hit to react and iron man you get one hit to react. With BPCW you get no hits to react he just stuns you. That’s the difference.
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    Maat1985 wrote: »
    Riegel wrote: »
    Riegel wrote: »
    Tempest wrote: »
    Riegel wrote: »
    I'm confused, if we know exactly what will trigger an auto-block parry, why don't we just avoid triggering an auto-block parry?

    Have you fought a high ranked medusa in war? You either have to wait out her Living strands/ fury, or you have to bring a champ that prevents her from gaining those furies. I think the problem is that it is not always easy to wait it out (either the fury or armor up) before you get cornered and comboed, and because IMIW's armor ups are passive, the usual counters like Hood don't work.

    Additionally, with Medusa, you can see the furies build up relatively easily (one every 3 secs), whereas with IMIW at under 15% health, you will get auto parried with only 1 stack of armor and every hit he deals out or receives, there is a 24% chance he will get one. When he is above 15%, I believe he needs 4 stacks, so it's not so bad (other than the armor tile in AW they mention).

    Yes, I have fought many 5/65 Medusa's. You take the right champ to fight her though. Very easily killed with: GR, Magik, MS, etc. Correct nullify works best on her, but there are many ways around auto-block parry.

    Riegel wrote: »
    I'm confused, if we know exactly what will trigger an auto-block parry, why don't we just avoid triggering an auto-block parry?

    Have you ever fought Mordo with Scarlet witch, moonknight or gwenpool? We have the same situation here. Part way through your combo you may hit him and cause a stun with these champions. Now, nothing happens until you hit him again. You know that hitting him when he’s stunned will astral evade but you’re already part way through your combo, you can’t react fast enough to stop.

    Iron man will trigger armour and you’ll still get parried even though you see that he’s got an armour buff. You know it would parry you, but you can’t react.

    It's not quite the same though, because you know when the auto-block with IW IM will take place. In your example there is no way of knowing when SW, MK, or GP will land a stun on Mordo. You can't prepare for that. With IW IM you know if he has 4 stacks of armor that's bad, and if he is at 15% HP or below that's bad news.

    My question would be does a noded armor buff count towards the 4 needed for an auto block, and if it does then does that armor also reduce the chance of him getting another armor buff like it should?

    I think you’re misunderstanding his abilities. He autoblocks on 1 armour under 15%

    I understand this. I was replying to someone else about the under 15% thing as it didn't seem like they understood that.

    Your examples still are very different as you know if he has armor he will auto block. There are ways around getting auto blocked.

    How is it different? The situations are very similar.

    You hit the champ and it triggers the effect (stun on Mordo/armour on Iron man). As you are part way through your combo you cannot slow down in time so you hit them. This then triggers the secondary effect (astral evade/autoblock).

    If you’ve ever fought Mordo with gwenpool or scarlet witch or moonknight you’d understand what I mean. Think about how fast you chain on extra hits with your combo.

    Would be better to comparing it to fighting BPCW on an armor up node with SW....
    Random stun.... he reflects it... chamces are his reflective armor is stacked and he flogs you
    It’s different with BPCW just because his stun reflects instantly. If you stun him, he reflects right away. That’s different to Mordo because you get one hit to react and iron man you get one hit to react. With BPCW you get no hits to react he just stuns you. That’s the difference.

    Thats why i am saying imiw would be comparable more to imiw in that sense....
    Yes imiw can only autoblock when he has one armor....
    But under 15% that may well be always....
  • DyrtiDyrti Posts: 8
    Please don’t get into a fight with Medusa
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    Dyrti wrote: »
    Please don’t get into a fight with Medusa

    What????? Medusa is easily countered in comparison. You can wait out her fury / nulify her fury......
    Also if she autoblocks you she loses her fury.
    If imiw autoblocls you while he is under 15% he still keeps his armor to do it again.

    Imagine 2 scenarios here.....
    1. He is on 15% health.... start a combo.... hit 2 of your combo stacks an armor..... now wait it out...... hit 1 causes an armour..... worst case scenario here you get comboed into oblivion while waiting, best case scenario you time out
    2. He is on explosive personality node..... you are waitin out his armor to expire.... he hits your block.... gains a couple armour.... wat do you do now.... wait and repeat cus u sure as hel cant hit him.... now he hits your block and gains another armor..... booooom... he explodes.... ur hit hard..... repeat process....
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    IW cap with a cosmic on your team.....
    Will armor break on parry......

    That is one potential solution
  • Hulk_77Hulk_77 Posts: 782 ★★★
    Maat1985 wrote: »
    IW cap with a cosmic on your team.....
    Will armor break on parry......

    That is one potential solution

    Good luck parrying his unblockable medium and dash.
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    Hulk_77 wrote: »
    Maat1985 wrote: »
    IW cap with a cosmic on your team.....
    Will armor break on parry......

    That is one potential solution

    Good luck parrying his unblockable medium and dash.

    For one you are wrong it is not unblockable..... it cannot be parried.... there is a difference....

    And jeez dude i am trying to offer help. Cus matter how much u think imiw sucks we are gunna have to deal woth him. This will work better than other solutions i have heard....
  • cAncAmOcAncAmO Posts: 379 ★★
    i leave my alliance today, i don´t want to play wars with this kind of defenders...

    this is an authentic mokery for the community.

    Please, stop of realese this kind of fighters please, people is leaving this game
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 2,897 ★★★★★
    Hulk_77 wrote: »
    Maat1985 wrote: »
    IW cap with a cosmic on your team.....
    Will armor break on parry......

    That is one potential solution

    Good luck parrying his unblockable medium and dash.

    It’s on well timed block so you don’t need to stun them. Just parry (it won’t stun but will armour break)
  • RiegelRiegel Posts: 1,089 ★★★★
    edited May 2018
    No with GP vs Mordo your stun procs his counter. You have NO WAY of know when you will proc a stun to be prepared for his astral evade you'd have to pay attention to every hit. With IM IF you know exactly when he will auto block. At 4 armors and at or below 15% HP.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 2,897 ★★★★★
    Riegel wrote: »
    No with GP vs Mordo your stun procs his counter. You have NO WAY of know when you will proc a stun to be prepared for his astral evade you'd have to pay attention to every hit. With IM IF you know exactly when he will auto block. At 4 armors and at or below 15% HP.

    No, you’re misunderstanding me again. I am talking about under below 15%. Only below 15%, not the 4 armour autoblock.

    You say you have no way of knowing when you will proc stun to be prepared for his astral evade. Then assuming iron man is under 15% and he has no armours on him, you also have no way of knowing when you will proc armour so you have to pay attention to every hit. That is my point.
This discussion has been closed.