v18.1 Discussion Thread

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  • TranminhbaoTranminhbao Posts: 127
    may I ask this. The new game version have 2 new character: Massacre and Domino, right?
  • TranminhbaoTranminhbao Posts: 127
    they should have an Acid-vomiting character, or maybe Massacre can vomit acid. The guy have no super power in the comic.
  • VTA92VTA92 Posts: 350
    I feel like This whole AA and what is a bug conversation can beat be compared to the NFL and it’s inability to clearly determine what is a catch.
  • jaylerdjaylerd Posts: 113
    they should have an Acid-vomiting character, or maybe Massacre can vomit acid. The guy have no super power in the comic.

    The entire skill class is based on champs without powers. Gwenpool's one of the best, no need to change anything.
  • Vale84Vale84 Posts: 308 ★★★
    Jank39 wrote: »
    Some good changes. Any word on when you will fix the issue of random heavies happening mid combo?

    man this all way. i thought it was me touching my pad somewhere!
  • Vale84Vale84 Posts: 308 ★★★
    Hey Everybody,

    I'm sorry to report that a moderator gave you incorrect information when this was first reported. We know how important it is for us to be sure that we are giving you the most accurate information that we possibly can.

    This was a bug, and although it was a long standing one, it doesn't mean that we didn't have to fix it. Archangel’s Stun was not acting like every other stun in the game.

    The issue with having a Stun that does not act like a debuff is that it was causing a lot of problems, and with more new content and modes being added, this was becoming a bigger and bigger problem. Archangel was not only able to bypass Stun Immune nodes, but his stun would bypass other Champions abilities, like Agent Venom's Tenacity or Black Panther (Civil War)'s Reflect Stun, as well as not interact with Masteries like Willpower.

    With this interaction becoming more and more prevalent in different game modes, we started seeing more of these problems come up, and this bug was one that became more of a priority.

    We don’t have any plans to distribute Rank Down tickets as this is resolving a bug and not changing an intended fundamental Champion mechanic in a significant way.

    Miike, what you are stating here isn't bad per se, as the change in AA isn't that terrible. The point is that once more there is clear indication that not only the ones acting as proxies for Kabam can be not turstwhorty, but also that the controls over them aren't a thing. Whatever a Mod or Admin speaks on forums is and should be considered as Kabam speaking to users. And being so, should be subjected to controls.

    Honestly, after reading the Sentry Info fiasco months ago, and numerous other istances in which you went back on your words, this creates a bad precedent. When champion's infos are describing them in a completely different way, or their abilities are, just to be conveniently adjusted whenever needed, then how do you think the community can trust you?

    On top, the change wasn't even needed, unless one of the new to be released champions would have had In that specific AA ability a great counter. I hope this is not the case, cause it would cleraly mean you're just taking out pre existing counters to be able to release new ones later and cash more on them.

    time will tell.

    Meanwhile, RD specific champ tickets are due.
  • JC1900JC1900 Posts: 1
    AA was always my MVP in AW because I always used him against the boss knowing that his neurotoxin will grant me a stun against the boss.
    Those that said they didn't know about this feature until now just didn't know how to use him. It was written right on the character description that neurotoxin does not count as a debuff.
    It's not a "it's safe to assume" thing... it's written right on his description.
    If the stun was not suppose to be "does not count as a debuff".. then it should have been in a separate section. They do this with every other character when they want to separate properties (Medusa, Hela, etc).
    The real answer is "we made a mistake in the text. it not actually a bug"... but well, it doesn't matter though. The mods are actively looking at this thread and will continue to not reply.
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 2,813 ★★★★★
    edited June 2018
    Gore wrote: »
    @Kabam Miike I need to understand 2 things from your post and please clear me on this
    Now if I fight with AA against Black Panther Civil after neurotoxins expire I get stunned cause that’s BP civil ability ?

    Regarding Agent Venom Tenacity read closely AA abilities
    Passive: AA Ability Accuracy can not be decreased by his opponents abilities

    That in particular means that after a neurotoxin expire AA 100% chance to stun for 1.5 seconds can’t be shut down

    So please be very explicit on this part cause I want to know if my rank 5 5* Archangel becomes **** now after I invested all I’ve got with hard work in him to help me pass some events or nodes more easy.u8qtwt3ov1bh.png

    If the Neurotoxin expires on Black Panther (Civil War) and causes a Stun while you are attacking him, it can reflect the Stun back to you. This is still a rare occurence.

    Agent Venom's Tenacity gives him a chance to shrug off the Stun from the Neurotoxin. So, he would still become stunned, but then might tenacity it away, like he does with every stun. This is not a reduction to anybody's ability accuracy.

    In an effort to take a few baby steps toward candor here, I’d like to clarify that a stun on CWBP generated by Neurotoxins will not be reflected unless AA is hitting CWBP at the precise moment of the Neurotoxin triggering stun. I ask this because my understanding is that only physical stuns are reflected by CWBP.

    Is this correct @Kabamwhoever? And if so, why?

    Dr. Zola
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 8,863 Guardian
    DrZola wrote: »
    Gore wrote: »
    @Kabam Miike I need to understand 2 things from your post and please clear me on this
    Now if I fight with AA against Black Panther Civil after neurotoxins expire I get stunned cause that’s BP civil ability ?

    Regarding Agent Venom Tenacity read closely AA abilities
    Passive: AA Ability Accuracy can not be decreased by his opponents abilities

    That in particular means that after a neurotoxin expire AA 100% chance to stun for 1.5 seconds can’t be shut down

    So please be very explicit on this part cause I want to know if my rank 5 5* Archangel becomes **** now after I invested all I’ve got with hard work in him to help me pass some events or nodes more easy.u8qtwt3ov1bh.png

    If the Neurotoxin expires on Black Panther (Civil War) and causes a Stun while you are attacking him, it can reflect the Stun back to you. This is still a rare occurence.

    Agent Venom's Tenacity gives him a chance to shrug off the Stun from the Neurotoxin. So, he would still become stunned, but then might tenacity it away, like he does with every stun. This is not a reduction to anybody's ability accuracy.

    In an effort to take a few baby steps toward candor here, I’d like to clarify that a stun on CWBP generated by Neurotoxins will not be reflected unless AA is hitting CWBP at the precise moment of the Neurotoxin triggering stun. I ask this because my understanding is that only physical stuns are reflected by CWBP.

    Is this correct @Kabamwhoever? And if so, why?

    Dr. Zola

    I believe the answer to your question is yes, based on other comments made. My reading of Kabam statements about this is that the game has designed BPCW so that when a stun is triggered on him, the game checks to see if his opponent is making contact. If so, the stun is reflected. It is an implementation quirk that the game logic does a check for contact, but doesn't do a check to see if the stun was the result of the same contact. It may be that at the moment the game tech (i.e. the game engine) doesn't have a way to check whether a stun was generated from a specific action that is currently making contact because there is no state variable that tracks that information.

    The fact that it is considered a rare event is probably because the timing must be very close, within one or two frames of the moment of contact to be considered simultaneous.
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 2,813 ★★★★★
    @DNA3000 and @Guy_Noir I’m just trying to give the game team a shot at constructive dialogue here in lieu of further alienating their customer base with deletions, infractions and thread closings.

    With that said, I think the analysis from @DNA3000 is correct. If so, that’s actually a limitation that doesn’t bother me too much because it seldom happens. Split-second frame timing issue are understandable.

    Dr. Zola
  • Crimson8399Crimson8399 Posts: 248 ★★
    Basically they are "fixing" him now because they plan to put in more stun immune in the future content and don't want to hear everyone complain about rank down tickets. Typical Kabam.
  • Basically they are "fixing" him now because they plan to put in more stun immune in the future content and don't want to hear everyone complain about rank down tickets. Typical Kabam.

    Exactly, they only make changes prior to something that may be beneficial to players in upcoming content. Check the history of changes.

  • ILOVEMCOCILOVEMCOC Posts: 21
    @Kabam Miike Will the problem with Quake not evading spiderman type heavies while in the corner be adressed in this update? So far, no moderator has acknowledged that they are aware this issue exists and there are many players who are concerned with this sudden change.

    Many here have theorized on why this is suddenly happening. Would Kabam be able to provide a definitive answer for us please?

    The most popular theory is that because both feet are used in the attack, it causes 2 hits and therefore one of them hits her. It seems to me that this is just a glitch or a change in the reach of that attack. I will explain why by going into detail on the game mechanics:

    First let me state that I hope this wasn't a "fix" done by Kabam purposely, because they thought that this was some sort of bug in the game, or a type of character exploit (like the recent changes with AA for example). The 2 hits detail should not matter and wasnt some sort of bug or exploit that she was fully evading both of these hits in the heavy attack. The reason behind her evade of both hits was because both hits happen in such a short time, relatively simultaneously, that when the first hit triggers evade, she is still in the evade process when the second hit comes and therefore it cannot hit her. Simply put, when the 2nd hit of the attack comes it is so similtaneous with the first that her evade buff from the first is still active (as you can clearly see when fully evading this heavy while in the middle of the screen.)

    The second reason based on game mechanics, is that the evade puts enough space between them temporarily, that the 2nd hit just misses. The 2nd hit is actually a shorter hit than the first and should not be able to cover the distance between them that the first hit could not. Think if you are walking down a crowded hallway and u lean to the side to avoid bumping shoulders with someone coming towards you, but there is a second person you dont see right behind them. You would lean to the side and avoid bumping into both oncomers, even without seeing the other one coming because you were still leaning away to avoid the first.... Now, picture that same scenario but the second person that you dont see is a couple of seconds pace behind them, u would stand back upright and bump their shoulder.

    Quake was always working correctly by avoiding both hits of that attack because she is still leaning backwards when the second hit comes. This game mechanic was never a flaw in the game or something that was a bug with Quake that needed to be fixed. The issue was with the heavy attack itsself, the hits are so close in the timing of when they are supposed to make contact that the 2nd hit still went by. Im not saying this is some sort of bug for that type of heavy attack, it is just how this heavy was designed to work. You can undertand this point better by looking at Quakes reaction while cornered by other different types of multi hit heavy attacks by other champions. Lets take Magik for example. She has more than 2 hits, but the timing of the second hit is so that it will hit you, unless you learn to dex out of it (which takes practice, but it definitely possible). Therefore, logically following game mechanics, if the second hit of the spiderman type heavy attack is able to hit you, then that means the 2nd hit MUST come AFTER Quake has recovered from the evade of the first hit. If that were truly what was happening, then there would be an opening to use dexterity to avoid that 2nd hit, as supposedly she was fully recovered from the evade.

    Hopefully this helps to understand that there was no fix to be made. Everything was working according to the proper mechanics of the game. NOTE ALSO: Any evade type champion, Spiderman himself for example, still fully evades this type of heavy attack in the corner WITH A SINGLE EVADE. Quakes evade has always responded in the same exact manner, as it should have. There was no glitch here. an evade is an evade, whether you are Quake or whether you are Spiderman. One of these characters evade responding differently to the same exact attack is the glitch, not the other way around.

    I hope that Kabam has taken the time to read this. If they did change this on purpose, I hope that they can now understand that there was nothing that needed to be fixed, everything was working exactly as it should have.


  • ILOVEMCOCILOVEMCOC Posts: 21
    Let me explain this a little bit better why this is a glitch, not a fix. If this change was made on purpose because Kabam thought they were fixing something, let me show you that there was nothing that needed to be fixed:

    Many here have theorized on why this is suddenly happening. Would Kabam be able to provide a definitive answer for us please?

    The most popular theory is that because both feet are used in the attack, it causes 2 hits and therefore one of them hits her. It seems to me that this is just a glitch or a change in the reach of that attack. I will explain why by going into detail on the game mechanics:

    First let me state that I hope this wasn't a "fix" done by Kabam purposely, because they thought that this was some sort of bug in the game, or a type of character exploit (like the recent changes with AA for example). The 2 hits detail should not matter and wasnt some sort of bug or exploit that she was fully evading both of these hits in the heavy attack. The reason behind her evade of both hits was because both hits happen in such a short time, relatively simultaneously, that when the first hit triggers evade, she is still in the evade process when the second hit comes and therefore it cannot hit her. Simply put, when the 2nd hit of the attack comes it is so similtaneous with the first that her evade buff from the first is still active (as you can clearly see when fully evading this heavy while in the middle of the screen.)

    The second reason based on game mechanics, is that the evade puts enough space between them temporarily, that the 2nd hit just misses. The 2nd hit is actually a shorter hit than the first and should not be able to cover the distance between them that the first hit could not. Think if you are walking down a crowded hallway and u lean to the side to avoid bumping shoulders with someone coming towards you, but there is a second person you dont see right behind them. You would lean to the side and avoid bumping into both oncomers, even without seeing the other one coming because you were still leaning away to avoid the first.... Now, picture that same scenario but the second person that you dont see is a couple of seconds pace behind them, u would stand back upright and bump their shoulder.

    Quake was always working correctly by avoiding both hits of that attack because she is still leaning backwards when the second hit comes. This game mechanic was never a flaw in the game or something that was a bug with Quake that needed to be fixed. The issue was with the heavy attack itsself, the hits are so close in the timing of when they are supposed to make contact that the 2nd hit still went by. Im not saying this is some sort of bug for that type of heavy attack, it is just how this heavy was designed to work. You can undertand this point better by looking at Quakes reaction while cornered by other different types of multi hit heavy attacks by other champions. Lets take Magik for example. She has more than 2 hits, but the timing of the second hit is so that it will hit you, unless you learn to dex out of it (which takes practice, but it definitely possible). Therefore, logically following game mechanics, if the second hit of the spiderman type heavy attack is able to hit you, then that means the 2nd hit MUST come AFTER Quake has recovered from the evade of the first hit. If that were truly what was happening, then there would be an opening to use dexterity to avoid that 2nd hit, as supposedly she was fully recovered from the evade.

    Hopefully this helps to understand that there was no fix to be made. Everything was working according to the proper mechanics of the game. NOTE ALSO: Any evade type champion, Spiderman himself for example, still fully evades this type of heavy attack in the corner WITH A SINGLE EVADE. Quakes evade has always responded in the same exact manner, as it should have. There was no glitch here. an evade is an evade, whether you are Quake or whether you are Spiderman. One of these characters evade responding differently to the same exact attack is the glitch, not the other way around.

    I hope that Kabam has taken the time to read this. If they did change this on purpose, I hope that they can now understand that there was nothing that needed to be fixed, everything was working exactly as it should have.

    Thank you for your time and consideration!

    @Kabam Zibiit
    @Kabam Loto
    @Kabam Vydious
    @Kabam Miike
    @Kabam Rose
  • ILOVEMCOCILOVEMCOC Posts: 21
    I apologize for the back to back post, that was unintentional.
  • Kabam this is wrong you are re-nerffing a good champion archangel just like dr.strange
  • Praetor_Zwei153Praetor_Zwei153 Posts: 54
    I obtained 5* Archangel after completing act 5 100% back in January 2018. The first thing I did was use my 5* generic awakening gem on him and ranked him from 0 to 4/55 right away. Why? Because of his unique ability. Now Kabam is trying to take that away in the next update suggesting it was a bug all along. There is no way I would have invested this heavily on him had this unique ability not existed back in January 2018. I've thrown at least 40+ generic and mutant sig stones on him.

    This is unacceptable Kabam and the MCoC community will not tolerate it. What's to stop you doing it to our other high level champs like blade and medusa who we've all heavily invested loads of money and time on? This will stop now and I won't be spending a dime on this game until you provide those with AA compensation as suggested by the plethora of players in the MCoC community who have been severely affected by this sudden announcement.

    I agree with the simple solution Brother Idelest, some of the other youtubers/redditors and MCoC forum posters with providing players with rank down tickets and generic 5* awakening gems specifically for Archangel. This compensation needs to be provided asap to prevent a further boycott and further tension between the MCoC community and Kabam.

  • TomerPTomerP Posts: 58
    I'm sorry, but as you can see by the flags on your post, everyone in the community think of this move by kabbam as a bad joke.

    Either post compensation or reinstate thr "bug".

    P. S. Why should this stun should be reflected by BPCW?
  • I think archangel specific rank down tickets are in order I ranked my 4* to 5/50 to counter stun immune if it was cause he didn't cause agent venoms tenacity or black panthers reflective stun FIX THAT don't nerf a champion hard I would like to rank my archangel from 5/50 to 4/40 and take either sabretooth to rank 5 save and rank 4 my 5 star x-23 or rank 3 my 5 star psylocke please as we had false indo and no clue it was a bug
  • StikyStiky Posts: 76
    I perform used to play AA almost all the time but changing such things or (fixing) which I'm pretty sure sure it was not caused alot of pain to those who use him regularly for an example if I stunned BpCw I'll be stunned back I mean like wtf the AA I know is not here anymore I personally ranked him because of he's stuns and then bleed (notice that stun comes first) know he's just a decent champ but that's all what there's to him i personally feel that this fixing or change no matter on how kabam put is a game changing at the end and they should man up and take responsibilities for there actions or at least to apologize for the mistakes that being done by there co-workers issuing rank down tickets won't mean the end of world kabam. Suck it up and stand up for your actions u guys give me the feeling that by giving those rank down tickets the world will end do as an apology is it really that's hard ????? Those type of things is called maintaining relations with the costmers instead of focusing on milking those whales do something good for once
  • StikyStiky Posts: 76
    If kabam didn't issue them it will selfish and unfair for them it's like a child who knows that he's mistaken but tries to find an excuse to cover he's **** up. Like kabam mile saying it's not a change it's fixing that's so lame and what type of fixing takes more than a year it becomes a very known fact by everyone don't try to use different words to come up with excuse kabam we're reaching our limits with those type of stuff
  • nopenope Posts: 134
    I think all the best reasons for how the aa nerf was mishandled have been laid out in the proper way. This is akin to 12.0 in that kabam tried to be stubborn and tell people to get over it and move on. Community outcry is what made the difference there. The compensation/restitution/whatever you want to call it didn't come because kabam benevolently decided to do the right thing. It was solely because the players reacted the way they did. So I don't think I'll be dropping a dime til this is made right.

    There's a great video explaining some thoughts on the matter along with a reddit link to a discussion about it. I'm not posting this in an attempt to get the pitchforks out... I'm posting in hopes a moderator will actually pay attention to it and take it to whoever makes the real decisions. It's a simple thing to make this right and give players the confirmation that although this is an overall small change to a champion... They won't get screwed over in the future. That's 100% the worry that needs to be addressed.

  • I strongly believe for those that have AA should get a rank down ticket and have one day to decide. I believe that is fair. Because it will give us the option to keep him ranked up or move forward with a different champ @Kabam Miike
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