Degeneration

ButtehrsButtehrs Posts: 945 ★★★
If your going to insist of using degen every where in this game now then I think its high time you introduce some degen immune champs. Just sayin.

Comments

  • I_ZERO_II_ZERO_I Posts: 104
    Gulk isn’t bad.
  • ButtehrsButtehrs Posts: 945 ★★★
    Gotta have one first lol
  • If it is the same type of degen that I'm thinking of then there will be no immune champ to it.
  • ButtehrsButtehrs Posts: 945 ★★★
    That's what I'm saying. Time to introduce degen immune champs lol.
  • Lambda1Lambda1 Posts: 196 ★★
    Yeah why not... Since there's a shock immune champ, degeneration is now the only one left.
  • Buttehrs wrote: »
    That's what I'm saying. Time to introduce degen immune champs lol.

    Like I said, it won't happen.
    There is a possibility to introduce a champion immune to the degen caused by other champion (like mordo or cable), but there will be no champion immune to the degen caused by a node (like act 5 nodes). Those were designed not to be bypassed by any champion, and encourage players to use another fightning style in order to avoid the incoming degen
  • ChampioncriticChampioncritic Posts: 2,105 ★★★
    whose shock immune?
  • whose shock immune?

    Corvus glaive is kinda shock immune
  • IronFist34IronFist34 Posts: 366
    Buttehrs wrote: »
    and encourage players to use another fightning style in order to avoid the incoming degen

    lol ummm, Bane node aside, there is no "fighting style" or skill to be used to avoid degen. Champs that cause degen should have another champ immune to it
  • GamerGamer Posts: 4,447 ★★★★
    Also flare node wuld be a joke if ther get deg imuns champ
  • 1haunted_memory1haunted_memory Posts: 790 ★★★
    willpower doesn't counter it either, which it should to a point at least lessen it
  • The1_NuclearOnionThe1_NuclearOnion Posts: 893 ★★★
    There should be a champ with the ability to reverse debuffs on them as opposed to shaking them off.
    Ex:
    Weakness becomes Fury
    Degen becomes regen

    Like what Guilly does only on the champ using it and for their benefit. Based on a timeframe after special or swipe back and block or something to trigger for a certain timeframe.
  • Colonaut123Colonaut123 Posts: 1,144 ★★★
    It makes sense that champions who are immune to disease (Hulk, symbiotes) are also immune to degeneration.
  • The1_NuclearOnionThe1_NuclearOnion Posts: 893 ★★★
    How about Nerf-Immune?
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 8,452 Guardian
    It makes sense that champions who are immune to disease (Hulk, symbiotes) are also immune to degeneration.

    It doesn't make sense that Kabam would invent degeneration so they could make damage effects that aren't covered by immunity, then make immunity to that damage. If they ever make degen immune champs, there is a lot of degeneration in the game that will just get changed to whatever they call the next no-immunity damage.
  • Dexman1349Dexman1349 Posts: 3,060 ★★★★★
    Perhaps a middle-ground could be made with a differentiation between active and passive degen debuffs.

    For example, node-based degen (like Bane and Flare) would be a passive effect that cannot be removed. However, champ-based degen (like getting hit by Cable's heavy attack, or against Dormammu) is an active debuff that can be made immune to.

    This would be very similar to the difference between active armor-up (like Civil Warrior) and passive armor up (IWIM) and how they're effected against champs that can armor break and/or nullify.
  • ShadPrinceShadPrince Posts: 826 ★★★
    Dexman1349 wrote: »
    Perhaps a middle-ground could be made with a differentiation between active and passive degen debuffs.

    For example, node-based degen (like Bane and Flare) would be a passive effect that cannot be removed. However, champ-based degen (like getting hit by Cable's heavy attack, or against Dormammu) is an active debuff that can be made immune to.

    This would be very similar to the difference between active armor-up (like Civil Warrior) and passive armor up (IWIM) and how they're effected against champs that can armor break and/or nullify.

    That would need to be reshuffled a bit tho, especially with Gulk in the game now.
    Starburst, Dorm's degen and Limbo all count as passive damage over time (which triggers face me), and to be honest Gulk is pretty good at dealing with degen.
    Bane and Flare are considered to be active degen, and if it gets changed this all needs to be cycled around with how Gulk works, and how he responds (because it's passive DoT, not just degen).
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 8,452 Guardian
    Dexman1349 wrote: »
    Perhaps a middle-ground could be made with a differentiation between active and passive degen debuffs.

    For example, node-based degen (like Bane and Flare) would be a passive effect that cannot be removed. However, champ-based degen (like getting hit by Cable's heavy attack, or against Dormammu) is an active debuff that can be made immune to.

    This would be very similar to the difference between active armor-up (like Civil Warrior) and passive armor up (IWIM) and how they're effected against champs that can armor break and/or nullify.

    They could do that, but why would they? Degen almost certainly exists to be the damage type that no one has immunity to. It is obvious to me the content designers *want* a damage type that no one has immunities to. You're in effect saying that the content creators of the game shouldn't be allowed to have such a damage type.

    I don't think it is accidental that no one is immune to degen. The content creators wanted it that way. So the problem isn't adding degen resistance: that's the easy part. The hard part is convincing the content creators that this thing they added because they wanted it to work that way, you feel they should just change because you like it better that way. I think you'll need a stronger argument for why they should add resistance and immunity to the thing they explicitly wanted to be unresistable and unavoidable by everyone.

    Put it another way. Suppose you somehow win and get degen resistance and/or immunity added to the game, and then added to whatever champions you feel appropriate. What stops the content creators from saying "please add a new damage type called disintegration" and then proceed to change starburst to do disintegration damage, which no one has immunity to, in order to restore their original intent?

    This isn't really about degen. This is about how you would go about convincing a Kabam developer that every kind of damage must have some subset of champions that easily shrug off that damage, and no damage should affect everyone equally. How do you tell a content creator, no, you aren't allowed to do that. We forbid you from doing that. That seems to be an incredibly high hurdle to me.
  • Dexman1349Dexman1349 Posts: 3,060 ★★★★★
    I'm not saying every part should have an immunity. I'm saying there should be a way to counter every champion (and their abilities) in the game. If a champion is able to proc something as a champ-based mechanic, then another character should be able to counter it. In the case of degen, this would mean a form of degen-immunity. A prime example of this would be a modified regen ability for Wolverine.

    That being said, it's about making the differentiation between active degen and passive degen. I'm saying passive should always be a part of the game. Things like Bane, Starburst, et.al would remain in the game as unavoidable damage as a node-based mechanic. Champ-based degen (limbo, Cable, Dorm) would all be active debuffs.

    It would require things like Limbo and Gulk to be rebuilt to adjust to this, but it creates a win-win scenario. Developers are able to keep their unavoidable damage, but players are also able to counter some aspect of it
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 8,452 Guardian
    Dexman1349 wrote: »
    If a champion is able to proc something as a champ-based mechanic, then another character should be able to counter it.

    That seems reasonable, but reasonable is not enough to change most people's minds. On top of demonstrating your suggestion is reasonable, you also have to demonstrate the status quo is unreasonable. Kabam has often stated that the "counter" to things like degen is healing. Whether I agree or not is immaterial so long as I'm not a developer. I think you'd have to overwhelmingly demonstrate that position is invalid to make progress here.

    Or wait for developer turnover. That creates more game mechanics changes than anything else in my experience.
  • _ASDF__ASDF_ Posts: 1,106 ★★★
    CA IW reduces degen by 50% with synergy as well. They are adding some champs that are better against it.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 8,452 Guardian
    _ASDF_ wrote: »
    CA IW reduces degen by 50% with synergy as well. They are adding some champs that are better against it.

    If I recall correctly CAIW's science synergy debuffs opponent attack, it doesn't directly affect degen. Because that synergy reduces opponent attack it will reduce all of the damage coming from that opponent except for attacks that directly strike CAIW, as the effect is suppressed while being struck by attacks.

    This means CAIW with the right synergy can affect degen indirectly, but he's not actually reducing degen damage. It does, however, somewhat address the question of affecting enemy champion sources of degen without touching non-champion sources like node debuffs. But technically speaking, doesn't anything that apply a weakness debuff do something similar, if not better (because no suppression on attack)?
  • _ASDF__ASDF_ Posts: 1,106 ★★★
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    _ASDF_ wrote: »
    CA IW reduces degen by 50% with synergy as well. They are adding some champs that are better against it.

    If I recall correctly CAIW's science synergy debuffs opponent attack, it doesn't directly affect degen. Because that synergy reduces opponent attack it will reduce all of the damage coming from that opponent except for attacks that directly strike CAIW, as the effect is suppressed while being struck by attacks.

    This means CAIW with the right synergy can affect degen indirectly, but he's not actually reducing degen damage. It does, however, somewhat address the question of affecting enemy champion sources of degen without touching non-champion sources like node debuffs. But technically speaking, doesn't anything that apply a weakness debuff do something similar, if not better (because no suppression on attack)?

    I think we’re in agreement lol. 🧐 so if CA isn’t being struck, the enemies attack is reduced by 50%, I assume and by experience, degen is then basically reduced by half. Although.. being Dormammu’s sig is effected by its level and not just attack, it would have less of an effect with him. Compared to Magik.
Sign In or Register to comment.