Summoner Appreciation Week Discussion

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  • TitoBandito187TitoBandito187 Posts: 551 ★★★
    This is exactly why it’s not enough. I’m still not appreciated or happy and the same problems just keep on happening.

    Anytime I try to do something worthwhile in this fmgane it goes down and I have to refight and heal or back out and do it all over again.

    R.I.P. time, effort and resources again. It’s to the point where it’s not even worth trying any new content anymore because I’m more likely to get screwed than not.

    kwpxtkja92ft.png
    y9izva1nyxcr.png

  • WerewrymWerewrym Posts: 2,190 Guardian
    edited August 2018
    Jaffacaked wrote: »
    Jaffacaked wrote: »
    Jaffacaked wrote: »
    Levels are based on progression over time. That's not a value judgment on the Players. Level 60 people are not better, therefore more important, than Level 6 people. Do not assume what I do and do not need or make. It's not helping your case. If people are prevented from playing, the effect is the same. They can't play. Time and effort is the same in the real world. It's not separated by Tiers.

    Lol you’re ridiculous. I don’t need to assume that because you prove it post by post. This has nothing to do with importance it’s about what was lost. You can’t lose what you never had. Level 6 players aren’t getting 10k 5 star shards a week but higher level players are.

    How exactly was it lost if you need to earn it? It's not owed on a given. Not when we're talking about War and Arenas. You're not owed what you don't compete for. You can't assume it's yours until you put up the Points/Wins.

    Ok then when someone gets injured an has time off work an gets compensation why do they also compensate for loss of earnings when that person hasn't worked it ?

    @GroundedWisdom can you answer my question ?

    It's not a job. It's a game.

    But that what compensation is, doesn't matter if it's a game or not. You compensated for lost revenue, items etc. Kenan have even compensates many times before for things we should of earned but couldn't. Case an point is the Merc missions.

    It does matter. It's a game, not a job. It's not lost wages. It's not a Salary.
    Mercs was an Event that had the same Rewards. You do it, you get the Rewards. It's not based on how many Points you put up in relation to how many others put up. If you were affected, you got the same as everyone else.
    There are calculations going around for War and Arenas when no one is guaranteed those Rewards. I can do every Arena for 3 years and I'm not guaranteed Rewards from the next unless I put up enough Points.

    That reasoning does not necessarily justify doing nothing to compensate in said areas of the game. Sure its based off of other players scores, but that doesn't mean that doing nothing is a solution. I'm right with you on the fact that it really isn't possible to calculate what people missed out in wars and arena, however, I don't see the solution to be ignoring potential rewards that were missed in those modes. By doing that they are ignoring the two modes of the game with the highest potential rewards. People that missed out on those rewards aren't going to be happy and justifiably so. The problem we have is that instead of even partially compensating players for the missed rewards in arena and AW they completely ignored them and did nothing which, as I've stated above, is not a solution at all.
  • SandeepSSandeepS Posts: 201
    Summoner appreciation week is turning into summoner maintenance month
  • R4GER4GE Posts: 1,530 ★★★★
    You gotta love that 20% Appreciation boost though! LOL

    Phones were over heating, can't do much/any arenas. Game is down non stop, always kicked from arena....still. So for those who suffered all that, you have little battle chips to capitalize on. Such a great reward
  • BirdReynoldsBirdReynolds Posts: 522 ★★★
    @Thought50 finally reappeared. I can barely do arenas again. Submitted a ticket and they responded saying the issue was resolved, sent me a link to an article about the iPhone X overheating (I don’t have an X, I’m not rich like Kabam), and also a broken link about something. BUT I found the forum thread. https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/85718/ios-19-1-lag-crashing-and-performance-investigation#latest
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 19,994 ★★★★★
    Werewrym wrote: »
    Jaffacaked wrote: »
    Jaffacaked wrote: »
    Jaffacaked wrote: »
    Levels are based on progression over time. That's not a value judgment on the Players. Level 60 people are not better, therefore more important, than Level 6 people. Do not assume what I do and do not need or make. It's not helping your case. If people are prevented from playing, the effect is the same. They can't play. Time and effort is the same in the real world. It's not separated by Tiers.

    Lol you’re ridiculous. I don’t need to assume that because you prove it post by post. This has nothing to do with importance it’s about what was lost. You can’t lose what you never had. Level 6 players aren’t getting 10k 5 star shards a week but higher level players are.

    How exactly was it lost if you need to earn it? It's not owed on a given. Not when we're talking about War and Arenas. You're not owed what you don't compete for. You can't assume it's yours until you put up the Points/Wins.

    Ok then when someone gets injured an has time off work an gets compensation why do they also compensate for loss of earnings when that person hasn't worked it ?

    @GroundedWisdom can you answer my question ?

    It's not a job. It's a game.

    But that what compensation is, doesn't matter if it's a game or not. You compensated for lost revenue, items etc. Kenan have even compensates many times before for things we should of earned but couldn't. Case an point is the Merc missions.

    It does matter. It's a game, not a job. It's not lost wages. It's not a Salary.
    Mercs was an Event that had the same Rewards. You do it, you get the Rewards. It's not based on how many Points you put up in relation to how many others put up. If you were affected, you got the same as everyone else.
    There are calculations going around for War and Arenas when no one is guaranteed those Rewards. I can do every Arena for 3 years and I'm not guaranteed Rewards from the next unless I put up enough Points.

    That reasoning does not necessarily justify doing nothing to compensate in said areas of the game. Sure its based off of other players scores, but that doesn't mean that doing nothing is a solution. I'm right with you on the fact that it really isn't possible to calculate what people missed out in wars and arena, however, I don't see the solution to be ignoring potential rewards that were missed in those modes. By doing that they are ignoring the two modes of the game with the highest potential rewards. People that missed out on those rewards aren't going to be happy and justifiably so. The problem we have is that instead of even partially compensating players for the missed rewards in arena and AW they completely ignored them and did nothing which, as I've stated above, is not a solution at all.

    They did do something, in the form of allowing people to select what they needed. You could also choose a Universal Package for all areas. You can't calculate potential Rewards in a competition that is Ranked and based on performance.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 19,994 ★★★★★
    There's a fundamental difference between what you can potentially put up, and what you're owed.
  • axelelf_1axelelf_1 Posts: 775 ★★★
    Between the terrible offers, terrible "compensation," game outages, quartered SA time, and everything else, I think Kabam is drawing a clear line in the sand. We can either accept that they rule, or we can quit. After the last months fiasco's and the failed logout/boycott, they're swooping in to make their dominance clear. At least, that's what this Summoner Appreciation event tells me. And if they're not, and they actually think this is "appreciation" then ... I'm honestly lost for (unbannable) words.
  • Mr_PlatypusMr_Platypus Posts: 1,091 ★★★
    .
    Werewrym wrote: »
    Jaffacaked wrote: »
    Jaffacaked wrote: »
    Jaffacaked wrote: »
    Levels are based on progression over time. That's not a value judgment on the Players. Level 60 people are not better, therefore more important, than Level 6 people. Do not assume what I do and do not need or make. It's not helping your case. If people are prevented from playing, the effect is the same. They can't play. Time and effort is the same in the real world. It's not separated by Tiers.

    Lol you’re ridiculous. I don’t need to assume that because you prove it post by post. This has nothing to do with importance it’s about what was lost. You can’t lose what you never had. Level 6 players aren’t getting 10k 5 star shards a week but higher level players are.

    How exactly was it lost if you need to earn it? It's not owed on a given. Not when we're talking about War and Arenas. You're not owed what you don't compete for. You can't assume it's yours until you put up the Points/Wins.

    Ok then when someone gets injured an has time off work an gets compensation why do they also compensate for loss of earnings when that person hasn't worked it ?

    @GroundedWisdom can you answer my question ?

    It's not a job. It's a game.

    But that what compensation is, doesn't matter if it's a game or not. You compensated for lost revenue, items etc. Kenan have even compensates many times before for things we should of earned but couldn't. Case an point is the Merc missions.

    It does matter. It's a game, not a job. It's not lost wages. It's not a Salary.
    Mercs was an Event that had the same Rewards. You do it, you get the Rewards. It's not based on how many Points you put up in relation to how many others put up. If you were affected, you got the same as everyone else.
    There are calculations going around for War and Arenas when no one is guaranteed those Rewards. I can do every Arena for 3 years and I'm not guaranteed Rewards from the next unless I put up enough Points.

    That reasoning does not necessarily justify doing nothing to compensate in said areas of the game. Sure its based off of other players scores, but that doesn't mean that doing nothing is a solution. I'm right with you on the fact that it really isn't possible to calculate what people missed out in wars and arena, however, I don't see the solution to be ignoring potential rewards that were missed in those modes. By doing that they are ignoring the two modes of the game with the highest potential rewards. People that missed out on those rewards aren't going to be happy and justifiably so. The problem we have is that instead of even partially compensating players for the missed rewards in arena and AW they completely ignored them and did nothing which, as I've stated above, is not a solution at all.

    They did do something, in the form of allowing people to select what they needed. You could also choose a Universal Package for all areas. You can't calculate potential Rewards in a competition that is Ranked and based on performance.

    And you can’t hand out some incredibly minor packages as “compensation” and expect veteran players that can potentially earn 4-5x that per week to be happy, especially when part of what we are being compensated for - the excessive downtime (and it is incredibly excessive when compared to many, many other games) is still randomly coming up several times a week
  • Werewrym wrote: »
    There's a simple solution to all the unrest in the community... I've said it a million times and I'll say it again. Bracketed compensation. Will there still be some people who don't like this method? Of course, you can't please everyone. Will some people get more compensation? Yes, but that's the way it should be.

    That doesn't solve the problem of dissatisfaction so much as it shifts it to different people. And I wouldn't bet money on which group of players is larger, if the intended goal is to reduce the number of players dissatisfied.

    It *might* be more fair in a game-balance sense (it is in my judgment), but the only reason for implementing such a system would be if you were willing to implement your idea of fairness in spite of community reaction, not because of it.

    There's no such thing as a simple solution that simultaneously satisfies popularity and principles. If there were, we wouldn't need principles.
  • DarthPhalDarthPhal Posts: 804 ★★★
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  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 2,745 ★★★★★
    edited August 2018
    DarthPhal wrote: »
    j7ssdohq2ryd.png

    So the calendar was Summoner Appreciation too? As was Gwenpool Goes to the Movies? Someone needs to tell the other mods.

    Also, as a general rule, it isn’t cool to post DMs from
    others on the forums.

    Dr. Zola
  • DarthPhalDarthPhal Posts: 804 ★★★
    fyc2x8ark7me.jpeg
  • WhathappenedWhathappened Posts: 512 ★★★
    Well if Summoner appreciation week is supposed to be compensation for the last 2 months they really missed the mark. It's okay if you are a newer players but if you have been playing seriously for 2 plus years the rewards aren't much. The impact of this compensation is negligible on my main account but is just nice on my new account. Pretty sad really.
  • DNA3000 wrote: »
    Werewrym wrote: »
    There's a simple solution to all the unrest in the community... I've said it a million times and I'll say it again. Bracketed compensation. Will there still be some people who don't like this method? Of course, you can't please everyone. Will some people get more compensation? Yes, but that's the way it should be.

    That doesn't solve the problem of dissatisfaction so much as it shifts it to different people. And I wouldn't bet money on which group of players is larger, if the intended goal is to reduce the number of players dissatisfied.

    It *might* be more fair in a game-balance sense (it is in my judgment), but the only reason for implementing such a system would be if you were willing to implement your idea of fairness in spite of community reaction, not because of it.

    There's no such thing as a simple solution that simultaneously satisfies popularity and principles. If there were, we wouldn't need principles.

    While I do understand your point, I do believe that there would be far less dissatisfied players using bracketed compensation. Obviously the people that would get frustrated would be those that missed a cutoff by some small margin... It sucks, yeah but lines have to be drawn somewhere as they were with 12.0. Like I've said before I missed the 5* awakening gem for 12.0 by less than 1k rating, let me tell you it sucked, but I didn't complain because I realized there had to be a cutoff and I still got relatively good compensation.

    In the case of 19.0 compensation there wasn't even an attempt to compensate everyone. They just gave out a generic package that only worked to appropriately compensate a very small portion of players. And for the rest of us, it really does absolutely nothing. Like I mentioned in my previous post that you quoted, it makes absolutely no sense to start putting out compensation that "might not be for you." They were able to compensate far more players with the bracketed system at 12.0.

    There may be better ways to go about compensation that are far less simple than a bracketed system yet far more complex, but I really doubt that Kabam would try something any more complex than a bracketed system based on prestige or rating. My main point is that they could have satisfied far more players than they did in this compensation, but they failed to do so.
  • DarthPhal wrote: »
    fyc2x8ark7me.jpeg

    he = it

    akw8ff85ud07.gif
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 2,745 ★★★★★
    Actually, apologies to @DarthPhal for the point about posting DMs—I didn’t realize that was an actual forums post and am even more surprised. To borrow from Korg, the only thing that makes sense about all this “appreciation” is that nothing makes sense.

    Dr. Zola
  • Austin555555Austin555555 Posts: 1,961 ★★★★
    Suede wrote: »
    DarthPhal wrote: »
    j7ssdohq2ryd.png

    Haha the solution seems to be to just call all parts of the game compensation. Appreciation week = compensation. Login calendar = compensation. 10 year anniversary event = compensation.

    Also love that the response to all complaints is that we are all wrong and that the compensation was actually great...

    The confensation needed much improvement
  • Werewrym wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Werewrym wrote: »
    There's a simple solution to all the unrest in the community... I've said it a million times and I'll say it again. Bracketed compensation. Will there still be some people who don't like this method? Of course, you can't please everyone. Will some people get more compensation? Yes, but that's the way it should be.

    That doesn't solve the problem of dissatisfaction so much as it shifts it to different people. And I wouldn't bet money on which group of players is larger, if the intended goal is to reduce the number of players dissatisfied.

    It *might* be more fair in a game-balance sense (it is in my judgment), but the only reason for implementing such a system would be if you were willing to implement your idea of fairness in spite of community reaction, not because of it.

    There's no such thing as a simple solution that simultaneously satisfies popularity and principles. If there were, we wouldn't need principles.

    While I do understand your point, I do believe that there would be far less dissatisfied players using bracketed compensation. Obviously the people that would get frustrated would be those that missed a cutoff by some small margin... It sucks, yeah but lines have to be drawn somewhere as they were with 12.0.

    For the record, in 12.0.1 many players complained about bracketed compensation that were not close to the cutoff, but opposed it on principle, something that has happened at other times as well. Setting aside the issue of the validity of that position, those people do exist and in significant numbers. There is probably significant overlap with the "rich get richer" people when it comes to things like uncollected crystals, and that contingent is actually pretty big.

    Again: the question I'm discussing here is not who's right or wrong, but specifically whether there's an overwhelming consensus in one direction. I don't believe there is one here.
  • DNA3000 wrote: »
    Werewrym wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Werewrym wrote: »
    There's a simple solution to all the unrest in the community... I've said it a million times and I'll say it again. Bracketed compensation. Will there still be some people who don't like this method? Of course, you can't please everyone. Will some people get more compensation? Yes, but that's the way it should be.

    That doesn't solve the problem of dissatisfaction so much as it shifts it to different people. And I wouldn't bet money on which group of players is larger, if the intended goal is to reduce the number of players dissatisfied.

    It *might* be more fair in a game-balance sense (it is in my judgment), but the only reason for implementing such a system would be if you were willing to implement your idea of fairness in spite of community reaction, not because of it.

    There's no such thing as a simple solution that simultaneously satisfies popularity and principles. If there were, we wouldn't need principles.

    While I do understand your point, I do believe that there would be far less dissatisfied players using bracketed compensation. Obviously the people that would get frustrated would be those that missed a cutoff by some small margin... It sucks, yeah but lines have to be drawn somewhere as they were with 12.0.

    For the record, in 12.0.1 many players complained about bracketed compensation that were not close to the cutoff, but opposed it on principle, something that has happened at other times as well. Setting aside the issue of the validity of that position, those people do exist and in significant numbers. There is probably significant overlap with the "rich get richer" people when it comes to things like uncollected crystals, and that contingent is actually pretty big.

    Again: the question I'm discussing here is not who's right or wrong, but specifically whether there's an overwhelming consensus in one direction. I don't believe there is one here.

    It's not about the rich getting richer, it's about fairly compensating players for what they missed out on... I hope we can both at least agree that Kabam did not do a good job of this with their appreciation event.
  • Suede wrote: »
    DarthPhal wrote: »
    j7ssdohq2ryd.png

    Haha the solution seems to be to just call all parts of the game compensation. Appreciation week = compensation. Login calendar = compensation. 10 year anniversary event = compensation.

    Also love that the response to all complaints is that we are all wrong and that the compensation was actually great...

    Seriously, this is a gosh darn joke (don't want to be further banned from the forums). They can enjoy not another dime from me and many others

  • Werewrym wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Werewrym wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Werewrym wrote: »
    There's a simple solution to all the unrest in the community... I've said it a million times and I'll say it again. Bracketed compensation. Will there still be some people who don't like this method? Of course, you can't please everyone. Will some people get more compensation? Yes, but that's the way it should be.

    That doesn't solve the problem of dissatisfaction so much as it shifts it to different people. And I wouldn't bet money on which group of players is larger, if the intended goal is to reduce the number of players dissatisfied.

    It *might* be more fair in a game-balance sense (it is in my judgment), but the only reason for implementing such a system would be if you were willing to implement your idea of fairness in spite of community reaction, not because of it.

    There's no such thing as a simple solution that simultaneously satisfies popularity and principles. If there were, we wouldn't need principles.

    While I do understand your point, I do believe that there would be far less dissatisfied players using bracketed compensation. Obviously the people that would get frustrated would be those that missed a cutoff by some small margin... It sucks, yeah but lines have to be drawn somewhere as they were with 12.0.

    For the record, in 12.0.1 many players complained about bracketed compensation that were not close to the cutoff, but opposed it on principle, something that has happened at other times as well. Setting aside the issue of the validity of that position, those people do exist and in significant numbers. There is probably significant overlap with the "rich get richer" people when it comes to things like uncollected crystals, and that contingent is actually pretty big.

    Again: the question I'm discussing here is not who's right or wrong, but specifically whether there's an overwhelming consensus in one direction. I don't believe there is one here.

    It's not about the rich getting richer, it's about fairly compensating players for what they missed out on... I hope we can both at least agree that Kabam did not do a good job of this with their appreciation event.

    Again: it is not a question of how you or I see this, I was stating what I believe to be the fact that many players do not view bracketed compensation the same way, and you aren't going to convince them all to change their minds. Bracketed compensation isn't controversy-free. You have to decide to look at all of those thousands of players who won't agree, and actively decide to do something they won't like and never will. That's an unavoidable fact of being a game designer, and I'd bet a lot of real money this is true in this case as well.

    It is easy for us to "agree" when Kabam does something wrong. But hidden under that agreement is a lot of disagreement on what they should have done instead. Nowhere was that more evident than after 12.0. There are a lot of players who think 12.0.1 was the best example of the players changing Kabam's mind, and what seems to me to be an equal number of players who think it was all for nothing, because everything they hated about 12.0 wasn't changed.

    I know what I would have done, and it looks nothing like what Kabam did, what Kabam described, and how Kabam managed the situation. But I have no illusions about the playerbase being in love with how I would have done it. I would hope that I would have managed expectations and perspectives better, but I doubt an overwhelming majority of players would be "happy" with my decisions. To be straight-up honest, I'd do them anyway.

    It is precisely because there is no good solution to the kinds of problems players have been experiencing that I believe you're supposed to avoid them at all cost. And I mean that literally: at all cost.

    Which is probably why game operations manager is not on my resume.
  • Wsm10Wsm10 Posts: 162
    RogerRabs wrote: »
    Getting back to @Ad0ra_ post, it seems like this is the major disconnect between the players and Kabam. Her statement downplays the impact of 19.0, passing it off as a minor inconvenience to a select group of iOS users. In reality, I believe the issue was much greater. Sure I was able to log in and play during the 3 weeks, but it was 1) doing damage to my device and 2) limited to quick 10 minute windows where I would do a few fights before shutting down the app to avoid serious, long lasting damage. Many of my alliance mates and people on Reddit had serious issues. Enough people expressed that they couldn't play that it seems almost definitely a bigger issue than Kabam is making it out to be.

    She also states that we've received more items this month than any other non-12.0 related month. This is contradictory to things @Kabam Miike has stated about compensation not being about "free stuff". The Gwenpool event was a celebration of Marvel's 10 year anniversary and doubled as a marketing campaign. This was likely planned far in advance and really has nothing to do with the overheating. Sure the 5* was easily obtainable, but it was very similar to the 2* arena. Not only that, but it was our side event for the month, something they do each and every month. If they didn't add content like this every month, end-game players, who tend to be the largest spenders, would have nothing to do. Most monthly side events end up giving around 10k 5* shards and some other items. The Gwenpool event certainly gave more than that, but not enough that'd I'd consider it out of the normal course of things.

    Another item she states as being overly generous are the 7h SA login crystals. I believe this is the closest we've come to a legitimate answer. These crystals are probably the best value out of anything we've received during SA week. However, they are heavily RNG dependent, so some people will come out much farther ahead than others. I don't believe true compensation should be left to chance.

    Finally she brings up the calendar, which again, is not unprecedented. T2A has been given in the main monthly login calendar before, and likely will be again.

    It seems to me Kabam wants to pass off events and items that they would give to Summoners in the normal course of playing as compensation. We normally get Summoner Appreciation as a, oh I don't know, way of APPRECIATING US. It shouldn't be used as a way of compensating people for a serious issue. I appreciate @Ad0ra_ taking the time to explain their rationale, even if I may strongly disagree with it. I'm glad our complaints are being heard and hopefully you will continue this new trend of strong communication moving forward.

    I really appreciate you taking the time to break a few things down about what has been stated in a way I was thinking, but not able to say. I think your points are spot on, and I really hope things will be handled better down the line. Good luck playing and thanks again. This can't be agreed with enough.
  • MenkentMenkent Posts: 289 ★★
    Brackets have their own issues. When they did that last time people lost their minds because it was very unfair. Another problem caused by developers who don't really play and don't bother to ask the community about how to implement these things (in advance). They've learned nothing. I'd make a few suggestions on how it could work, but the only people reading this either agree or are just here to argue. Good news is this thread will be closed in a couple more days when "appreciation" is over.
This discussion has been closed.