If you use the “Don’t Get Hit” approach sparky is still way way “Beyond God Tier”
Facts. I got so much more skill by wanting to master Spidy that the benefit goes beyond plying him. If I’m focused and I have a good song in the background, I can play most champs without so much as blocking a hit. OP also ignores the lack of reliance on any debuffs or buffs, and can manage perfectly fine without special attacks. He is still amazing for me. Definitely not completely “blown out of the water” by other bgts.
Last I check, I used him to explore variant 3 which is a 2019 content. Yup, definitely overrated.
He said overrated, not bad or useless. Dont see how you are disproving his point.
Calling a champ overrated pretty much sum up useless, not great, not living up to expectation. I laugh on how he praise the other champs’ abilities but ignore any con. I have some of those champs he praised at 4/55 or 5/65. Sparky always have a slot in my team.
If you use the “Don’t Get Hit” approach sparky is still way way “Beyond God Tier”
Facts. I got so much more skill by wanting to master Spidy that the benefit goes beyond plying him. If I’m focused and I have a good song in the background, I can play most champs without so much as blocking a hit. OP also ignores the lack of reliance on any debuffs or buffs, and can manage perfectly fine without special attacks. He is still amazing for me. Definitely not completely “blown out of the water” by other bgts.
Yup, getting good with sparky allows you to overcome so many difficult fights. If you can play mistake free he is so good. Big Damage, Awesome at creating space, Taunt is huge, Reliable power control with taunt/heavy. So many ways to play him. 10 poise then parry heavy is a good answer to a lot of thing’s especially evaders. He is amazing above 50% health but can still be very useful with only a 20% revive.
Last I check, I used him to explore variant 3 which is a 2019 content. Yup, definitely overrated.
He said overrated, not bad or useless. Dont see how you are disproving his point.
To be fair, the OP didn't prove his thesis either. If anything, he weakens his argument by claiming that many of the champs on Seatin's "beyond god tier" list are not champs he would consider beyond god tier. If Seatin only puts the highest of the high value champs on that list and also Sparky, that can imply Seatin is overvaluing Sparky relative to all other champs. But if Seatin puts other champs that you don't consider "beyond god tier" in that list, then that implies Seatin's criteria for inclusion on that list is lower than yours, and thus its much harder to prove that Seatin is overvaluing Sparky.
To me, the OP's analysis is extremely one-sided. He starts by discounting literally everything that Sparky can do as unimportant, and then focuses only on what other champs can do that Sparky can't do. Of course, that leads to the conclusion that everything else is better.
Thing is, not only has the game been moving away from linear comparisons for a while, even the players have been. There was a time when most of the talk was "who's better?' as if champions could be judged on a linear scale. Now, I think most sophisticated players and nearly all end game players don't talk that way. They talk about utility, and which champs have the best use cases. Sparky is still a top tier champ when it comes to use cases. Not because he's "better" or "god tier" but rather because he does a set of things very well, that set of things is a set of things that actual content actually benefits from, and in those situations few things are obviously better.
For beginning players, Sparky is going to be great. It doesn't matter who's better or worse for beginning players, what matters is what can the champ do for me right now, and Sparky can deliver. For intermediate players, Sparky is a champ that is well suited to intermediate content that tends to be less complex. For the end game players, nobody cares if Sparky is god tier anymore: they care if he is useful within their roster, and depending on how you've built up your roster, he can be in the core of your rank ups as a primary damage dealer.
By the time you're anywhere near the end game, you should be thinking less in terms of tiers, and more in terms of teams. Just like in MMOs, you want a tank, you want the damage dealer, you want that healer. If I build my roster around Sparky as a core damage dealer and you build around Hyperion, neither of us is right or wrong. It just means I get the evades with Sparky and you get the heals with Hype, and you're going to surround Hype with different champs than I'm going to surround Sparky with.
In one end game player's roster, Sparky can be critical, essential, supremely useful. In another end game player's roster, he can be completely superfluous. Neither the guy who thinks he's a god nor the guy who thinks he's unnecessary are wrong. Learning this is part of progressing in the game.
Last I check, I used him to explore variant 3 which is a 2019 content. Yup, definitely overrated.
He said overrated, not bad or useless. Dont see how you are disproving his point.
Calling a champ overrated pretty much sum up useless, not great, not living up to expectation. I laugh on how he praise the other champs’ abilities but ignore any con. I have some of those champs he praised at 4/55 or 5/65. Sparky always have a slot in my team.
False. I specifically stated that I thought we was still very good. I just don't think he's top of the meta or even of his class anymore.
I think OP should garner more experience under his belt before attempting to make a controversial statement like this.
@xNig That's an appeal to authority. Not a good argument. There are plenty of very high-level players who agree with me (such as KT1 and Brian Grant). Objectively speaking, he's not as strong as the champs at the top of the meta.
Last I check, I used him to explore variant 3 which is a 2019 content. Yup, definitely overrated.
He said overrated, not bad or useless. Dont see how you are disproving his point.
To be fair, the OP didn't prove his thesis either. If anything, he weakens his argument by claiming that many of the champs on Seatin's "beyond god tier" list are not champs he would consider beyond god tier. If Seatin only puts the highest of the high value champs on that list and also Sparky, that can imply Seatin is overvaluing Sparky relative to all other champs. But if Seatin puts other champs that you don't consider "beyond god tier" in that list, then that implies Seatin's criteria for inclusion on that list is lower than yours, and thus its much harder to prove that Seatin is overvaluing Sparky.
To me, the OP's analysis is extremely one-sided. He starts by discounting literally everything that Sparky can do as unimportant, and then focuses only on what other champs can do that Sparky can't do. Of course, that leads to the conclusion that everything else is better.
I think that "Beyond God-Tier" is a very high-tier category, and the majority of the champs on that list are much better than Starky. I think Seatin's rather overly-generous with his promotions regardless. Within the context of that list, Starky, AA, and others are over-valued imo. I used Seatin's tier list so I'd have a reference point that most people are at least somewhat familiar with. I by no means said that Starky's utility is pointless. I just said that a champion can't be judged solely on damage.
Take, for example, Wasp. Wasp has crazy damage (guaranteed crits on heavy, massive ramp-up on the SP3, extremely high base attack). Wasp never has to parry, and in most fights she can dominate the opponent and keep them locked in the corner. But I wouldn't consider Wasp Beyond God-Tier because she doesn't have enough essential things she can do to compare with Ghost, Quake, Omega, Namor, Corvus, etc. Just because Starky can be used very effectively in many matchups doesn't put him at the top of the meta.
You seriously are using brian grant as one of the people who agree with you?? XD dude is good at the game and has his own play style He does mainly what he wants Heck he ran Medusa and BB AND KARNAK for AW attack jsut because he liked her that much Dude stop just watching YouTube videos and actually play the game Come back and talk when you actually have all those champs and used them for content that requires higher skill and champs
The point I was making is there are serious endgame players who also dislike Starky and agree that he's overrated, as a lot of people were using the argument of inexperience against me. From my personal experience and the discussions I've had, I don't see that Starky's very good.
IMO he is a spectacular champ my only issue is in every match I use him I have to dex 10 times to reach his full potential which can get very boring and tedious but it does help me become a better player although doesn't change the fact that it is still boring
Why do you keep using endgame players to judge a champ? Once you get further in contents and a fuller roster, you will be taking the right team for the job, not the Beyond god tier team
You seriously are using brian grant as one of the people who agree with you?? XD dude is good at the game and has his own play style He does mainly what he wants Heck he ran Medusa and BB AND KARNAK for AW attack jsut because he liked her that much Dude stop just watching YouTube videos and actually play the game Come back and talk when you actually have all those champs and used them for content that requires higher skill and champs
The point I was making is there are serious endgame players who also dislike Starky and agree that he's overrated, as a lot of people were using the argument of inexperience against me. From my personal experience and the discussions I've had, I don't see that Starky's very good.
Ohh yeah that’s definitely iron clad evidence Confirmation bias at its finest Next go find a kabam employee that wants to throw him out of the game for being a bad champ Get outta here kid they’re is a reason why he is LOL option and a legends one as well Overrated and people still take him up to 5/65 😂 Goodness newbies sometimes think they know everything since they watch YouTube
I may not full agree with OP either but he is entitled to his own opinion
You seriously are using brian grant as one of the people who agree with you?? XD dude is good at the game and has his own play style He does mainly what he wants Heck he ran Medusa and BB AND KARNAK for AW attack jsut because he liked her that much Dude stop just watching YouTube videos and actually play the game Come back and talk when you actually have all those champs and used them for content that requires higher skill and champs
The point I was making is there are serious endgame players who also dislike Starky and agree that he's overrated, as a lot of people were using the argument of inexperience against me. From my personal experience and the discussions I've had, I don't see that Starky's very good.
Ohh yeah that’s definitely iron clad evidence Confirmation bias at its finest Next go find a kabam employee that wants to throw him out of the game for being a bad champ Get outta here kid they’re is a reason why he is LOL option and a legends one as well Overrated and people still take him up to 5/65 😂 Goodness newbies sometimes think they know everything since they watch YouTube
Been playing for just under eleven months now, so I've got some experience. I know he's popular; I don't think his popularity is warranted. And I've held that opinion long before anyone mentioned it on YouTube. In fact most YouTubers think he's great. I disagree. He's good. He's nowhere near the best. He's certainly got a good spot on many people's rosters.
Go try to do LOL with Hyperion, corvus, SS, capiw, sparkles, quake, void. I bet sparky would come out on top. Worry about which champ can do the job better than who is the best.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I disagree overall. While sparky cant be compared to ghost or some of the other dominant champs of the current meta, he's still incredibly useful for tons of end game content. He struggles in certain situations, to be sure. But every champ does. This game is increasingly about having the right champ for a specific scenario.
Gone are the days where you could cut thru anything with one top champ. You have to have a diverse roster to progress through the most difficult content. Sparky offers a lot of unique utility, combined with high damage output and that is very valuable.
Last I check, I used him to explore variant 3 which is a 2019 content. Yup, definitely overrated.
He said overrated, not bad or useless. Dont see how you are disproving his point.
To be fair, the OP didn't prove his thesis either. If anything, he weakens his argument by claiming that many of the champs on Seatin's "beyond god tier" list are not champs he would consider beyond god tier. If Seatin only puts the highest of the high value champs on that list and also Sparky, that can imply Seatin is overvaluing Sparky relative to all other champs. But if Seatin puts other champs that you don't consider "beyond god tier" in that list, then that implies Seatin's criteria for inclusion on that list is lower than yours, and thus its much harder to prove that Seatin is overvaluing Sparky.
To me, the OP's analysis is extremely one-sided. He starts by discounting literally everything that Sparky can do as unimportant, and then focuses only on what other champs can do that Sparky can't do. Of course, that leads to the conclusion that everything else is better.
I think that "Beyond God-Tier" is a very high-tier category, and the majority of the champs on that list are much better than Starky. I think Seatin's rather overly-generous with his promotions regardless.
Yes, but your assertion is that Sparky is "overrated." But if you're using Seatin's list, then you're trying to assert Seatin is overrating him. You can't use Seatin's list to prove anyone else is overrating Sparky, because how do you know how highly rated anyone else considers Sparky to be?
In fact, it is worth asking the obvious question. How highly rated do you think Sparky actually is? Saying he's at "the top of the meta" says nothing, because if I only have two lists, the top half and the bottom half, then lots of things will be at the "top."
It has been a long time since I've heard anyone say "Sparky is at the top of the meta" and in fact, he isn't. The current "meta" of the game, which is how the players value things in the game, doesn't currently value Sparky as the absolute best champ today. He's often valued as a top tier champ, but top 20%, top 10%, top 1%? Depends on who you ask. Seatin's spreadsheet has seven tiers. Would I say that Sparky is in the top 15% of all champions in the game? Maybe.
Let's reexamine some of your comparisons. I've loved Magik since she was buffed into her current form, in fact since well before she was considered worth anything at all in general chatter, back when I was saying she was good very few people were agreeing out loud. But to say off handedly that Sparky is just obviously better without analysis I think suggests you think their value is much farther apart than I think most higher tier players would agree with, even those that actually think Magik is better wouldn't be so quick to assume that should be so obvious.
CapIW is also suspect. He's got great potential, but that potential requires pseudo-synergies in the team and also requires high sig level. Sparky is much less reliant on high sig; in fact he's pretty good just awakened at all. This is a practical limitation that I think is extremely important to this comparison.
Even Corvus I think you're looking at very superficially. Corvus can be a god, for twenty hits. And then his staff breaks and you lose both your crits and your immunities. If you're in a situation where you can build charges and you can burst damage kill everything, Corvus is great. But outside of that? Sparky has way more sustainable damage. Otherwise everyone would be clearing Labyrinth with Corvus since he has huge damage and is effectively unkillable, right?
And finally Ghost. You say Ghost is immune to DoT, and actually benefits from DoT. That's not true. Iceman is immune to most DoT. Ghost can convert DoT into fury. But you still take the damage until you do, and this is a very skill-based thing to be able to control effectively. You hand the average player a 5/65 sig 200 Ghost and put him or her in front of a Biohazard node, and chances are they'll be dead. Heck, I wouldn't even like my chances in that situation, and I'm somewhat above average. Sparky has no immunities, but I might actually end up doing more damage with Sparky against a biohazard boss than with Ghost, at least today.
I think OP should garner more experience under his belt before attempting to make a controversial statement like this.
@xNig That's an appeal to authority. Not a good argument. There are plenty of very high-level players who agree with me (such as KT1 and Brian Grant). Objectively speaking, he's not as strong as the champs at the top of the meta.
That is not an appeal to authority. You saying KT1 and Brian Grant agree with you is an appeal to authority. Asking if you have the experience to make controversial statements about the capabilities of the champions is asking if you're basing your judgments on direct experience or analysis informed by first hand observation or not.
Half of what I know about the game is informed by other players. But if it isn't backed by my own direct experience, I am much more cautious about how far I'm willing to push that knowledge. If I don't have first hand experience, I cannot judge the credibility of other players' anecdotes.
You're free to judge the champions any way you want. You don't have to justify your preferences or your opinions. But if you say a champ is overrated, you aren't saying what you think about the champ, you're declaring that a lot of other people are wrong about that champ. That's different: now people have the right to question your credibility to make that statement.
Idk bout you guys but stark has been MVP for me in 5.3 on my mini account especially with cornered and power reserve lanes..no one can get close or outbeat him on those lanes lol
If I may put my input that would be older content around when he was added that hasn't changed I'm concerned whether or not the new content will render him useless.
Well, Sparky is also good in Variant and I've seen some very good uses in Act 6, so he isn't becoming obsolete yet. For example, regarding the "only evades specials" thing I recall seeing some gameplay (maybe Seatin) with Sparky verses the destructive feedback yellowjacket in 6.2. Yellowjacket's SP1 is not the easiest thing to avoid, and while you can dex it all by yourself using Sparky makes it far easier. And with destructive feedback your first mistake is your last, so Sparky can save you revives on that kind of node.
The "meta" of the game (really, the current design direction of the content) is not heading towards or away from any one particular champ, but rather towards diverse rosters as a whole. Or to put it another way, the current direction of the game is not to make some champs more useful and other champs less useful, it is to make individual champs less broadly useful and more champs situationally useful. To the extent that there are champs more broadly useful than Sparky, it is more likely that future content will make those champs less broadly useful than it is Sparky becoming increasingly less useful. Champs like Omega and Namor and Void aren't going to ever become useless, but future content is likely to contain increasingly more counters to them in some situations, while allowing them to shine in others.
You seriously are using brian grant as one of the people who agree with you?? XD dude is good at the game and has his own play style He does mainly what he wants Heck he ran Medusa and BB AND KARNAK for AW attack jsut because he liked her that much Dude stop just watching YouTube videos and actually play the game Come back and talk when you actually have all those champs and used them for content that requires higher skill and champs
The point I was making is there are serious endgame players who also dislike Starky and agree that he's overrated, as a lot of people were using the argument of inexperience against me. From my personal experience and the discussions I've had, I don't see that Starky's very good.
Actually, now that I think about it, I would be interested to see a reference to where you heard Brian Grant say that Sparky is "overrated." KT1 makes judgments like that (and there's nothing wrong with that: that's his editorial opinion) but Brian doesn't tend to, because he doesn't tend to look at champs that way. He might have said it, but I would be interested to see the context in which he said that.
Also, if some end game players say Sparky is overrated and others don't, it is very risky to believe you can pick which side is right without having the direct experience of knowing in what context they are having that disagreement. Top tier end game players sometimes say things just to be daring, because they know they're top tier players who can get away with it. Top tier players will take 3* Iron Fist into the Maze and claim he's the best champ in the game, just because they can.
Spark is definitely top tier, no doubts about that. High damage, some utility in terms of power control and auto evade.
However, his playstyle doesn’t appeal to me, which is why he’s sitting as a R3 arena fodder for me.
Tbh it doesn’t matter what OP thinks. If you think he’s bad, then he’s bad and don’t rank him up. What I’m questioning are your credentials and experience (11 months is nothing. There are players here clocking 4 years or more), to make an assessment on whether a champ is overrated, and to make a statement about it.
Spark is definitely top tier, no doubts about that. High damage, some utility in terms of power control and auto evade.
However, his playstyle doesn’t appeal to me, which is why he’s sitting as a R3 arena fodder for me.
Tbh it doesn’t matter what OP thinks. If you think he’s bad, then he’s bad and don’t rank him up. What I’m questioning are your credentials and experience (11 months is nothing. There are players here clocking 4 years or more), to make an assessment on whether a champ is overrated, and to make a statement about it.
You don't need credentials to make an argument. Certainly not to state an opinion: which at the end of the day is all this discussion is.
His that over rated, he needs a rework Maybe he could hit harder, stun longer, power drain more, taunt quicker , shock longer and evade better. And give his mate Blade bigger % bonus Then I’ll play my 5/65 Stark Spidey even more 👍 Then always.
Comments
To me, the OP's analysis is extremely one-sided. He starts by discounting literally everything that Sparky can do as unimportant, and then focuses only on what other champs can do that Sparky can't do. Of course, that leads to the conclusion that everything else is better.
Thing is, not only has the game been moving away from linear comparisons for a while, even the players have been. There was a time when most of the talk was "who's better?' as if champions could be judged on a linear scale. Now, I think most sophisticated players and nearly all end game players don't talk that way. They talk about utility, and which champs have the best use cases. Sparky is still a top tier champ when it comes to use cases. Not because he's "better" or "god tier" but rather because he does a set of things very well, that set of things is a set of things that actual content actually benefits from, and in those situations few things are obviously better.
For beginning players, Sparky is going to be great. It doesn't matter who's better or worse for beginning players, what matters is what can the champ do for me right now, and Sparky can deliver. For intermediate players, Sparky is a champ that is well suited to intermediate content that tends to be less complex. For the end game players, nobody cares if Sparky is god tier anymore: they care if he is useful within their roster, and depending on how you've built up your roster, he can be in the core of your rank ups as a primary damage dealer.
By the time you're anywhere near the end game, you should be thinking less in terms of tiers, and more in terms of teams. Just like in MMOs, you want a tank, you want the damage dealer, you want that healer. If I build my roster around Sparky as a core damage dealer and you build around Hyperion, neither of us is right or wrong. It just means I get the evades with Sparky and you get the heals with Hype, and you're going to surround Hype with different champs than I'm going to surround Sparky with.
In one end game player's roster, Sparky can be critical, essential, supremely useful. In another end game player's roster, he can be completely superfluous. Neither the guy who thinks he's a god nor the guy who thinks he's unnecessary are wrong. Learning this is part of progressing in the game.
Take, for example, Wasp. Wasp has crazy damage (guaranteed crits on heavy, massive ramp-up on the SP3, extremely high base attack). Wasp never has to parry, and in most fights she can dominate the opponent and keep them locked in the corner. But I wouldn't consider Wasp Beyond God-Tier because she doesn't have enough essential things she can do to compare with Ghost, Quake, Omega, Namor, Corvus, etc. Just because Starky can be used very effectively in many matchups doesn't put him at the top of the meta.
Losing ground doesn’t actually happen if you know how to bank their dashing mediums in the corner.
Check out one of dorks videos which displays it.
Gone are the days where you could cut thru anything with one top champ. You have to have a diverse roster to progress through the most difficult content. Sparky offers a lot of unique utility, combined with high damage output and that is very valuable.
In fact, it is worth asking the obvious question. How highly rated do you think Sparky actually is? Saying he's at "the top of the meta" says nothing, because if I only have two lists, the top half and the bottom half, then lots of things will be at the "top."
It has been a long time since I've heard anyone say "Sparky is at the top of the meta" and in fact, he isn't. The current "meta" of the game, which is how the players value things in the game, doesn't currently value Sparky as the absolute best champ today. He's often valued as a top tier champ, but top 20%, top 10%, top 1%? Depends on who you ask. Seatin's spreadsheet has seven tiers. Would I say that Sparky is in the top 15% of all champions in the game? Maybe.
Let's reexamine some of your comparisons. I've loved Magik since she was buffed into her current form, in fact since well before she was considered worth anything at all in general chatter, back when I was saying she was good very few people were agreeing out loud. But to say off handedly that Sparky is just obviously better without analysis I think suggests you think their value is much farther apart than I think most higher tier players would agree with, even those that actually think Magik is better wouldn't be so quick to assume that should be so obvious.
CapIW is also suspect. He's got great potential, but that potential requires pseudo-synergies in the team and also requires high sig level. Sparky is much less reliant on high sig; in fact he's pretty good just awakened at all. This is a practical limitation that I think is extremely important to this comparison.
Even Corvus I think you're looking at very superficially. Corvus can be a god, for twenty hits. And then his staff breaks and you lose both your crits and your immunities. If you're in a situation where you can build charges and you can burst damage kill everything, Corvus is great. But outside of that? Sparky has way more sustainable damage. Otherwise everyone would be clearing Labyrinth with Corvus since he has huge damage and is effectively unkillable, right?
And finally Ghost. You say Ghost is immune to DoT, and actually benefits from DoT. That's not true. Iceman is immune to most DoT. Ghost can convert DoT into fury. But you still take the damage until you do, and this is a very skill-based thing to be able to control effectively. You hand the average player a 5/65 sig 200 Ghost and put him or her in front of a Biohazard node, and chances are they'll be dead. Heck, I wouldn't even like my chances in that situation, and I'm somewhat above average. Sparky has no immunities, but I might actually end up doing more damage with Sparky against a biohazard boss than with Ghost, at least today.
Half of what I know about the game is informed by other players. But if it isn't backed by my own direct experience, I am much more cautious about how far I'm willing to push that knowledge. If I don't have first hand experience, I cannot judge the credibility of other players' anecdotes.
You're free to judge the champions any way you want. You don't have to justify your preferences or your opinions. But if you say a champ is overrated, you aren't saying what you think about the champ, you're declaring that a lot of other people are wrong about that champ. That's different: now people have the right to question your credibility to make that statement.
Also, if some end game players say Sparky is overrated and others don't, it is very risky to believe you can pick which side is right without having the direct experience of knowing in what context they are having that disagreement. Top tier end game players sometimes say things just to be daring, because they know they're top tier players who can get away with it. Top tier players will take 3* Iron Fist into the Maze and claim he's the best champ in the game, just because they can.
However, his playstyle doesn’t appeal to me, which is why he’s sitting as a R3 arena fodder for me.
Tbh it doesn’t matter what OP thinks. If you think he’s bad, then he’s bad and don’t rank him up. What I’m questioning are your credentials and experience (11 months is nothing. There are players here clocking 4 years or more), to make an assessment on whether a champ is overrated, and to make a statement about it.
And give his mate Blade bigger % bonus
Then I’ll play my 5/65 Stark Spidey even more 👍
Then always.