**Mastery Loadouts**
Due to issues related to the release of Mastery Loadouts, the "free swap" period will be extended.
The new end date will be May 1st.

People that complete content on day 1 are part of the problem

245

Comments

  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    Did I enjoy the GM fight more? Absolutely. We're not talking about what was more enjoyable though which is what some of you seem to have confused with skill based
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    Pulyaman said:

    People commenting the champion is skill based are absolutely wrong..it's not a skill fight..if it was many more would complete it and there would be less complaints. I agree many are complaining simply to complain..but that fight required skill and a huge bit of luck to get the required champion. I know 3 or 4 main people get in every post and say thats an skill based gate..but it's really not. We see the grandmaster fight done with all kinds of champion..I am yet to see the champion fight with even mid tier Champs. For me..the champion fight was good..I felt that dexing is special did not register many times..and I have seen people complain about the same thing.. If his specials were projectile based..it would make it easier. All I am seeing here is people who have completed act 6 looking down on people asking the fight to be made easier. Do I think the fight is tough? Yes.. Should it be nerfed? Only interms of removing no retreat and spite. Do I care if they nerf it? Nope. I know I will eventually explore that.

    Most people consider Hood mid tier at best and I personally know multiple people who've used him to beat the champion. People have also used Loki.

    Do certain champs make the fight easier? Sure but most of the champs people claim are NEEDED just aren't in reality.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    Pulyaman said:

    Worknprogress said:

    Pulyaman said:

    People commenting the champion is skill based are absolutely wrong..it's not a skill fight..if it was many more would complete it and there would be less complaints. I agree many are complaining simply to complain..but that fight required skill and a huge bit of luck to get the required champion. I know 3 or 4 main people get in every post and say thats an skill based gate..but it's really not. We see the grandmaster fight done with all kinds of champion..I am yet to see the champion fight with even mid tier Champs. For me..the champion fight was good..I felt that dexing is special did not register many times..and I have seen people complain about the same thing.. If his specials were projectile based..it would make it easier. All I am seeing here is people who have completed act 6 looking down on people asking the fight to be made easier. Do I think the fight is tough? Yes.. Should it be nerfed? Only interms of removing no retreat and spite. Do I care if they nerf it? Nope. I know I will eventually explore that.

    Most people consider Hood mid tier at best and I personally know multiple people who've used him to beat the champion. People have also used Loki.

    Do certain champs make the fight easier? Sure but most of the champs people claim are NEEDED just aren't in reality.
    Again, You NEED certain champ to do the fight. if it was really just skill based, we would be seeing Swedeah doing that fight with Kamala khan. I think you missed my main point in that it is not purely skill based. And there is no point in gating players from progressing in story mode when its not even just skill. If you want to give players will good skill and roster a challenge? Give maze every month with insane rewards. You don't stop people progressing in the main mode of the game.
    I would call grandmaster fight a gate, purely because as you said, it requires basic skills to progress. Champion fight does not do that.
    I get the point that it should not be an easy fight and it should not be done with unit man either. But the fight must end at some point. I heard a suggestion that every time you died the counter should increase and it should decrease for the dex. There must be some mechanism to make the fight possible. At its current state, its just impossible if you dont have a specific set of counters
    This game is all about needing counters. As long as they aren't so specific or rare that only a handful of champs can counter a fight it's not a problem. There are lots of counters to that fight at this point.

    Just bc a fight isn't 100% about skill doesn't mean it isn't skill based or BS. That's absurd. I used the do you bleed Medusa boss as an example earlier and I don't see you up in arms bc you HAVE to use specific type of champs there.

    Bottom line is getting through the champion fight is more skill gated than the grandmaster which is the whole point of this current discussion. Even if you unit down the first 90% if you don't eventually learn to get 5 dexs in one fight, you never finish it. That's just not true with the GM fight
  • WHOz_R4GEWHOz_R4GE Posts: 239 ★★
    People who complete content day 1 are the problem? Is this a troll thread? This can’t be real. Honestly I’m disappointed they delayed Act7, people need to develop their rosters and skill if they want to tackle end game content right away. All this entitlement for an easier game drives me crazy. If you aren’t skilled enough or have a roster developed enough to handle it, DONT DO IT. Let us who are enjoy the challenge.
  • GreekhitGreekhit Posts: 2,819 ★★★★★
    Worknprogress said:



    We have a fight that's based on skill and is pass/fail, 6.2.6 champion. It's also one of the most hated fights by the community. You guys can keep asking for "skill to be rewarded" but when you get it and can't beat something, just cry about it constantly

    It’s not exactly skill based. It’s a specific champion requirement fight in fact (not to mention a huge percentage of players took that fight down with the bugged She-Hulk,BWCV and MS). Also, it’s a ptw fight too, as spending thousands of units on the fight, will eventually bring result, unless you play the game with your toes 🤣
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    Pulyaman said:

    Worknprogress said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Worknprogress said:

    Pulyaman said:

    People commenting the champion is skill based are absolutely wrong..it's not a skill fight..if it was many more would complete it and there would be less complaints. I agree many are complaining simply to complain..but that fight required skill and a huge bit of luck to get the required champion. I know 3 or 4 main people get in every post and say thats an skill based gate..but it's really not. We see the grandmaster fight done with all kinds of champion..I am yet to see the champion fight with even mid tier Champs. For me..the champion fight was good..I felt that dexing is special did not register many times..and I have seen people complain about the same thing.. If his specials were projectile based..it would make it easier. All I am seeing here is people who have completed act 6 looking down on people asking the fight to be made easier. Do I think the fight is tough? Yes.. Should it be nerfed? Only interms of removing no retreat and spite. Do I care if they nerf it? Nope. I know I will eventually explore that.

    Most people consider Hood mid tier at best and I personally know multiple people who've used him to beat the champion. People have also used Loki.

    Do certain champs make the fight easier? Sure but most of the champs people claim are NEEDED just aren't in reality.
    Again, You NEED certain champ to do the fight. if it was really just skill based, we would be seeing Swedeah doing that fight with Kamala khan. I think you missed my main point in that it is not purely skill based. And there is no point in gating players from progressing in story mode when its not even just skill. If you want to give players will good skill and roster a challenge? Give maze every month with insane rewards. You don't stop people progressing in the main mode of the game.
    I would call grandmaster fight a gate, purely because as you said, it requires basic skills to progress. Champion fight does not do that.
    I get the point that it should not be an easy fight and it should not be done with unit man either. But the fight must end at some point. I heard a suggestion that every time you died the counter should increase and it should decrease for the dex. There must be some mechanism to make the fight possible. At its current state, its just impossible if you dont have a specific set of counters
    This game is all about needing counters. As long as they aren't so specific or rare that only a handful of champs can counter a fight it's not a problem. There are lots of counters to that fight at this point.

    Just bc a fight isn't 100% about skill doesn't mean it isn't skill based or BS. That's absurd. I used the do you bleed Medusa boss as an example earlier and I don't see you up in arms bc you HAVE to use specific type of champs there.

    Bottom line is getting through the champion fight is more skill gated than the grandmaster which is the whole point of this current discussion. Even if you unit down the first 90% if you don't eventually learn to get 5 dexs in one fight, you never finish it. That's just not true with the GM fight
    Sorry if I was not clear. But, I don't mind counters if they are a available in a wide range. Do you bleed has so many counters, not all of them good mind you but just make the fight longer. Champion boss requires a nullifying champs with either good block prof or regen during fight. Kabam are introducing more and more mystic champs that can counter him. But let's face it, rng makes it difficult to aim for champs.
    Dexing him 5 times is another issue altogether. I already said my dexes weren't registering sometimes, add to the fact that some champs have easier time dexing than others. I don't have a problem with the fight itself being what it is. But calling it a purely skill based is not correct. Whether it is more skilled based than GM or not is not something I can say because I have not reached that point. So, I am not going to go into that
    That's not even true bc neither Loki or Hood have amazing block prof or regen and both have been used for the champion fight. It's convenient to have those things but not even slightly necessary
  • GreekhitGreekhit Posts: 2,819 ★★★★★
    Worknprogress said:



    Posts like this are why the majority of the playerbase aren't taken seriously at all.

    Ooh toxicity 😆 truth hurts 🤣
  • Notsavage19Notsavage19 Posts: 2,817 ★★★★★
    Pulyaman said:

    Worknprogress said:

    Pulyaman said:

    People commenting the champion is skill based are absolutely wrong..it's not a skill fight..if it was many more would complete it and there would be less complaints. I agree many are complaining simply to complain..but that fight required skill and a huge bit of luck to get the required champion. I know 3 or 4 main people get in every post and say thats an skill based gate..but it's really not. We see the grandmaster fight done with all kinds of champion..I am yet to see the champion fight with even mid tier Champs. For me..the champion fight was good..I felt that dexing is special did not register many times..and I have seen people complain about the same thing.. If his specials were projectile based..it would make it easier. All I am seeing here is people who have completed act 6 looking down on people asking the fight to be made easier. Do I think the fight is tough? Yes.. Should it be nerfed? Only interms of removing no retreat and spite. Do I care if they nerf it? Nope. I know I will eventually explore that.

    Most people consider Hood mid tier at best and I personally know multiple people who've used him to beat the champion. People have also used Loki.

    Do certain champs make the fight easier? Sure but most of the champs people claim are NEEDED just aren't in reality.
    Again, You NEED certain champ to do the fight. if it was really just skill based, we would be seeing Swedeah doing that fight with Kamala khan. I think you missed my main point in that it is not purely skill based. And there is no point in gating players from progressing in story mode when its not even just skill. If you want to give players will good skill and roster a challenge? Give maze every month with insane rewards. You don't stop people progressing in the main mode of the game.
    I would call grandmaster fight a gate, purely because as you said, it requires basic skills to progress. Champion fight does not do that.
    I get the point that it should not be an easy fight and it should not be done with unit man either. But the fight must end at some point. I heard a suggestion that every time you died the counter should increase and it should decrease for the dex. There must be some mechanism to make the fight possible. At its current state, its just impossible if you dont have a specific set of counters
    But there has to be fights that require certain counters. There would be no need for new characters if fights were doable with anybody, like the GM.
  • PulyamanPulyaman Posts: 2,365 ★★★★★
    Notsavage19 said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Worknprogress said:

    Pulyaman said:

    People commenting the champion is skill based are absolutely wrong..it's not a skill fight..if it was many more would complete it and there would be less complaints. I agree many are complaining simply to complain..but that fight required skill and a huge bit of luck to get the required champion. I know 3 or 4 main people get in every post and say thats an skill based gate..but it's really not. We see the grandmaster fight done with all kinds of champion..I am yet to see the champion fight with even mid tier Champs. For me..the champion fight was good..I felt that dexing is special did not register many times..and I have seen people complain about the same thing.. If his specials were projectile based..it would make it easier. All I am seeing here is people who have completed act 6 looking down on people asking the fight to be made easier. Do I think the fight is tough? Yes.. Should it be nerfed? Only interms of removing no retreat and spite. Do I care if they nerf it? Nope. I know I will eventually explore that.

    Most people consider Hood mid tier at best and I personally know multiple people who've used him to beat the champion. People have also used Loki.

    Do certain champs make the fight easier? Sure but most of the champs people claim are NEEDED just aren't in reality.
    Again, You NEED certain champ to do the fight. if it was really just skill based, we would be seeing Swedeah doing that fight with Kamala khan. I think you missed my main point in that it is not purely skill based. And there is no point in gating players from progressing in story mode when its not even just skill. If you want to give players will good skill and roster a challenge? Give maze every month with insane rewards. You don't stop people progressing in the main mode of the game.
    I would call grandmaster fight a gate, purely because as you said, it requires basic skills to progress. Champion fight does not do that.
    I get the point that it should not be an easy fight and it should not be done with unit man either. But the fight must end at some point. I heard a suggestion that every time you died the counter should increase and it should decrease for the dex. There must be some mechanism to make the fight possible. At its current state, its just impossible if you dont have a specific set of counters
    But there has to be fights that require certain counters. There would be no need for new characters if fights were doable with anybody, like the GM.
    Then the acquisition of said counters also has to be somewhat easy. I still don't have loki or hood, two moderate counters for champ as per people here. I got SS after initial completion of 6.2 so things will be easier next time.But not everyone is that lucky
  • PulyamanPulyaman Posts: 2,365 ★★★★★
    Worknprogress said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Worknprogress said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Worknprogress said:

    Pulyaman said:

    People commenting the champion is skill based are absolutely wrong..it's not a skill fight..if it was many more would complete it and there would be less complaints. I agree many are complaining simply to complain..but that fight required skill and a huge bit of luck to get the required champion. I know 3 or 4 main people get in every post and say thats an skill based gate..but it's really not. We see the grandmaster fight done with all kinds of champion..I am yet to see the champion fight with even mid tier Champs. For me..the champion fight was good..I felt that dexing is special did not register many times..and I have seen people complain about the same thing.. If his specials were projectile based..it would make it easier. All I am seeing here is people who have completed act 6 looking down on people asking the fight to be made easier. Do I think the fight is tough? Yes.. Should it be nerfed? Only interms of removing no retreat and spite. Do I care if they nerf it? Nope. I know I will eventually explore that.

    Most people consider Hood mid tier at best and I personally know multiple people who've used him to beat the champion. People have also used Loki.

    Do certain champs make the fight easier? Sure but most of the champs people claim are NEEDED just aren't in reality.
    Again, You NEED certain champ to do the fight. if it was really just skill based, we would be seeing Swedeah doing that fight with Kamala khan. I think you missed my main point in that it is not purely skill based. And there is no point in gating players from progressing in story mode when its not even just skill. If you want to give players will good skill and roster a challenge? Give maze every month with insane rewards. You don't stop people progressing in the main mode of the game.
    I would call grandmaster fight a gate, purely because as you said, it requires basic skills to progress. Champion fight does not do that.
    I get the point that it should not be an easy fight and it should not be done with unit man either. But the fight must end at some point. I heard a suggestion that every time you died the counter should increase and it should decrease for the dex. There must be some mechanism to make the fight possible. At its current state, its just impossible if you dont have a specific set of counters
    This game is all about needing counters. As long as they aren't so specific or rare that only a handful of champs can counter a fight it's not a problem. There are lots of counters to that fight at this point.

    Just bc a fight isn't 100% about skill doesn't mean it isn't skill based or BS. That's absurd. I used the do you bleed Medusa boss as an example earlier and I don't see you up in arms bc you HAVE to use specific type of champs there.

    Bottom line is getting through the champion fight is more skill gated than the grandmaster which is the whole point of this current discussion. Even if you unit down the first 90% if you don't eventually learn to get 5 dexs in one fight, you never finish it. That's just not true with the GM fight
    Sorry if I was not clear. But, I don't mind counters if they are a available in a wide range. Do you bleed has so many counters, not all of them good mind you but just make the fight longer. Champion boss requires a nullifying champs with either good block prof or regen during fight. Kabam are introducing more and more mystic champs that can counter him. But let's face it, rng makes it difficult to aim for champs.
    Dexing him 5 times is another issue altogether. I already said my dexes weren't registering sometimes, add to the fact that some champs have easier time dexing than others. I don't have a problem with the fight itself being what it is. But calling it a purely skill based is not correct. Whether it is more skilled based than GM or not is not something I can say because I have not reached that point. So, I am not going to go into that
    That's not even true bc neither Loki or Hood have amazing block prof or regen and both have been used for the champion fight. It's convenient to have those things but not even slightly necessary
    Hood and Loki can regen. Hood has it in his toolkit and Loki can steal regen from champion. But, I have not seen many videos of Loki one shot. One of the video was that of my alliance mate and he had CAIW in his team.
  • danielmathdanielmath Posts: 4,045 ★★★★★
    lowlevelplayer said:

    Worknprogress said:

    xNig said:

    @Worknprogress the definition of a “skill based fight” in this community is somewhat weird.

    To most, a “skill based fight” is a fight that, without the right amount of skill, cannot be passed by anyone, and is a challenging fight.

    To most aspiring members of this community, a “skill based fight” is one which is challenging that they can complete (the last part is the most important part lol).

    Why the Grandmaster fight is celebrated? Cause he’s easy. He only tests you on 3 skills, parry/block, intercept, get hit (whether this is a “skill” or not is up for debate), which arguably are the core fundamentals on which this game is built on. Dexing specials, nope, not a core skill (even a champ like RG is introduced to block the unblockable).

    So yeah, I’m hoping for more “skill based fights” like the Champion, which requires a ton of hard work, practice, and absolutely gates those without the right skill and roster out.

    I'll be the absolute last person to call myself a top tier player
    says the one in 4loki
    nearly spit out my water reading this, WNP is alright but top tier? get outa here with that nonsense!
  • WerewrymWerewrym Posts: 2,830 ★★★★★
    gianleo said:

    Worknprogress said:

    Knation said:

    Worknprogress said:

    lowlevelplayer said:

    Worknprogress said:

    lowlevelplayer said:

    Worknprogress said:

    SummonerNR said:

    Maybe make some content where you CANNOT USE any Revives/Heals.

    It would then be just based on pure skill and strength of team as to how far you can get.
    And if your team dies, them you have to start all over and try again. And again, and again...

    Not sure where the money would come from, maybe from having to buy more Energy Refills instead of Potions. Or maybe limited number of free entrance tickets after which you would have to buy more (with Units, or ultimately money if you run out of units)

    We have a fight that's based on skill and is pass/fail, 6.2.6 champion. It's also one of the most hated fights by the community. You guys can keep asking for "skill to be rewarded" but when you get it and can't beat something, just cry about it constantly
    there's another skill based fight - 6.4 grandmaster. Everyone loves it
    You can absolutely unit the grandmaster down though.
    really? how? You have to complete challenges, get him wounded......
    I don't see how you can do the fight without having at least a bit of skill. Unless you're talking about mercs......
    You don't HAVE to get him wounded it would just be an insanely long fight without doing so. You still do damage while he isn't. The only part you can't actually unit down is the last phase but that's just playing keep away for a few seconds
    I think the reason people like the grandmaster more then the champion is that pretty much any champion can do it
    I liked the champion fight outside of no retreat though
    Oh I get that completely. My point was just that "the community" doesn't always actually want what they ask for. The champion fight is just a prime example of that. They want skill based but still with a unit safety net in the end in actuality
    His fight is a huge problem because the number of possible counter for it is way too narrow, his block penetration is way too high and the challenge to dex his short-range multi-hit special attack is annoying and not fun.
    You can’t really make a generic statement like this and apply it to all players. While I do agree that the fight requires a specific counter if you want to beat him, I don’t think that inherently means the fight is not skill based. No retreat node aside the fight is actually highly skill based especially in the last 10%.

    The issue a lot of people run into is not putting in any time to practice. If you want something skill based that doesn’t mean that it will require no practice. What tells me this fight is, in fact, skill based is that the skills you need to beat Champion can be obtained by dedicating time to practice. I beat champion every one of my runs with very minimal item use (excluding no retreat) because I spent time practicing.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    danielmath said:

    lowlevelplayer said:

    Worknprogress said:

    xNig said:

    @Worknprogress the definition of a “skill based fight” in this community is somewhat weird.

    To most, a “skill based fight” is a fight that, without the right amount of skill, cannot be passed by anyone, and is a challenging fight.

    To most aspiring members of this community, a “skill based fight” is one which is challenging that they can complete (the last part is the most important part lol).

    Why the Grandmaster fight is celebrated? Cause he’s easy. He only tests you on 3 skills, parry/block, intercept, get hit (whether this is a “skill” or not is up for debate), which arguably are the core fundamentals on which this game is built on. Dexing specials, nope, not a core skill (even a champ like RG is introduced to block the unblockable).

    So yeah, I’m hoping for more “skill based fights” like the Champion, which requires a ton of hard work, practice, and absolutely gates those without the right skill and roster out.

    I'll be the absolute last person to call myself a top tier player
    says the one in 4loki
    nearly spit out my water reading this, WNP is alright but top tier? get outa here with that nonsense!
    I certainly didn't agree with it lol
  • lowlevelplayerlowlevelplayer Posts: 4,292 ★★★★★
    danielmath said:

    lowlevelplayer said:

    Worknprogress said:

    xNig said:

    @Worknprogress the definition of a “skill based fight” in this community is somewhat weird.

    To most, a “skill based fight” is a fight that, without the right amount of skill, cannot be passed by anyone, and is a challenging fight.

    To most aspiring members of this community, a “skill based fight” is one which is challenging that they can complete (the last part is the most important part lol).

    Why the Grandmaster fight is celebrated? Cause he’s easy. He only tests you on 3 skills, parry/block, intercept, get hit (whether this is a “skill” or not is up for debate), which arguably are the core fundamentals on which this game is built on. Dexing specials, nope, not a core skill (even a champ like RG is introduced to block the unblockable).

    So yeah, I’m hoping for more “skill based fights” like the Champion, which requires a ton of hard work, practice, and absolutely gates those without the right skill and roster out.

    I'll be the absolute last person to call myself a top tier player
    says the one in 4loki
    nearly spit out my water reading this, WNP is alright but top tier? get outa here with that nonsense!
    top tier doesn't mean top 100 imo. When I say top tier, I mean completion/100% of all content, in a top alliance, and knows just about anything to know about the game
  • Notsavage19Notsavage19 Posts: 2,817 ★★★★★
    Pulyaman said:

    Notsavage19 said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Worknprogress said:

    Pulyaman said:

    People commenting the champion is skill based are absolutely wrong..it's not a skill fight..if it was many more would complete it and there would be less complaints. I agree many are complaining simply to complain..but that fight required skill and a huge bit of luck to get the required champion. I know 3 or 4 main people get in every post and say thats an skill based gate..but it's really not. We see the grandmaster fight done with all kinds of champion..I am yet to see the champion fight with even mid tier Champs. For me..the champion fight was good..I felt that dexing is special did not register many times..and I have seen people complain about the same thing.. If his specials were projectile based..it would make it easier. All I am seeing here is people who have completed act 6 looking down on people asking the fight to be made easier. Do I think the fight is tough? Yes.. Should it be nerfed? Only interms of removing no retreat and spite. Do I care if they nerf it? Nope. I know I will eventually explore that.

    Most people consider Hood mid tier at best and I personally know multiple people who've used him to beat the champion. People have also used Loki.

    Do certain champs make the fight easier? Sure but most of the champs people claim are NEEDED just aren't in reality.
    Again, You NEED certain champ to do the fight. if it was really just skill based, we would be seeing Swedeah doing that fight with Kamala khan. I think you missed my main point in that it is not purely skill based. And there is no point in gating players from progressing in story mode when its not even just skill. If you want to give players will good skill and roster a challenge? Give maze every month with insane rewards. You don't stop people progressing in the main mode of the game.
    I would call grandmaster fight a gate, purely because as you said, it requires basic skills to progress. Champion fight does not do that.
    I get the point that it should not be an easy fight and it should not be done with unit man either. But the fight must end at some point. I heard a suggestion that every time you died the counter should increase and it should decrease for the dex. There must be some mechanism to make the fight possible. At its current state, its just impossible if you dont have a specific set of counters
    But there has to be fights that require certain counters. There would be no need for new characters if fights were doable with anybody, like the GM.
    Then the acquisition of said counters also has to be somewhat easy. I still don't have loki or hood, two moderate counters for champ as per people here. I got SS after initial completion of 6.2 so things will be easier next time.But not everyone is that lucky
    Why though? Act 6 is a test of roster breadth. That's why they don't allow 4*s. Why should Kabam make it any easier to obtain the right champs?
  • danielmathdanielmath Posts: 4,045 ★★★★★
    lowlevelplayer said:

    danielmath said:

    lowlevelplayer said:

    Worknprogress said:

    xNig said:

    @Worknprogress the definition of a “skill based fight” in this community is somewhat weird.

    To most, a “skill based fight” is a fight that, without the right amount of skill, cannot be passed by anyone, and is a challenging fight.

    To most aspiring members of this community, a “skill based fight” is one which is challenging that they can complete (the last part is the most important part lol).

    Why the Grandmaster fight is celebrated? Cause he’s easy. He only tests you on 3 skills, parry/block, intercept, get hit (whether this is a “skill” or not is up for debate), which arguably are the core fundamentals on which this game is built on. Dexing specials, nope, not a core skill (even a champ like RG is introduced to block the unblockable).

    So yeah, I’m hoping for more “skill based fights” like the Champion, which requires a ton of hard work, practice, and absolutely gates those without the right skill and roster out.

    I'll be the absolute last person to call myself a top tier player
    says the one in 4loki
    nearly spit out my water reading this, WNP is alright but top tier? get outa here with that nonsense!
    top tier doesn't mean top 100 imo. When I say top tier, I mean completion/100% of all content, in a top alliance, and knows just about anything to know about the game
    he's in my alliance, trust me when i say he knows nothing :smile:
  • TheTalentsTheTalents Posts: 2,254 ★★★★★
    The Champion fight is not that skilled based at all. Give everyone perfect block and they could complete the fight. You just need the right champs. When you remove the block damage where's the skill needed? Please explain?
  • Monk1Monk1 Posts: 745 ★★★★
    TheTalents said:

    The Champion fight is not that skilled based at all. Give everyone perfect block and they could complete the fight. You just need the right champs. When you remove the block damage where's the skill needed? Please explain?

    U just answered your own question. Everyone don’t have perfect t block, cause you can’t just block you need the skill to evade and dex at right moment and manage/counter his mechanics
  • TheTalentsTheTalents Posts: 2,254 ★★★★★
    Worknprogress said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Worknprogress said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Worknprogress said:

    Pulyaman said:

    People commenting the champion is skill based are absolutely wrong..it's not a skill fight..if it was many more would complete it and there would be less complaints. I agree many are complaining simply to complain..but that fight required skill and a huge bit of luck to get the required champion. I know 3 or 4 main people get in every post and say thats an skill based gate..but it's really not. We see the grandmaster fight done with all kinds of champion..I am yet to see the champion fight with even mid tier Champs. For me..the champion fight was good..I felt that dexing is special did not register many times..and I have seen people complain about the same thing.. If his specials were projectile based..it would make it easier. All I am seeing here is people who have completed act 6 looking down on people asking the fight to be made easier. Do I think the fight is tough? Yes.. Should it be nerfed? Only interms of removing no retreat and spite. Do I care if they nerf it? Nope. I know I will eventually explore that.

    Most people consider Hood mid tier at best and I personally know multiple people who've used him to beat the champion. People have also used Loki.

    Do certain champs make the fight easier? Sure but most of the champs people claim are NEEDED just aren't in reality.
    Again, You NEED certain champ to do the fight. if it was really just skill based, we would be seeing Swedeah doing that fight with Kamala khan. I think you missed my main point in that it is not purely skill based. And there is no point in gating players from progressing in story mode when its not even just skill. If you want to give players will good skill and roster a challenge? Give maze every month with insane rewards. You don't stop people progressing in the main mode of the game.
    I would call grandmaster fight a gate, purely because as you said, it requires basic skills to progress. Champion fight does not do that.
    I get the point that it should not be an easy fight and it should not be done with unit man either. But the fight must end at some point. I heard a suggestion that every time you died the counter should increase and it should decrease for the dex. There must be some mechanism to make the fight possible. At its current state, its just impossible if you dont have a specific set of counters
    This game is all about needing counters. As long as they aren't so specific or rare that only a handful of champs can counter a fight it's not a problem. There are lots of counters to that fight at this point.

    Just bc a fight isn't 100% about skill doesn't mean it isn't skill based or BS. That's absurd. I used the do you bleed Medusa boss as an example earlier and I don't see you up in arms bc you HAVE to use specific type of champs there.

    Bottom line is getting through the champion fight is more skill gated than the grandmaster which is the whole point of this current discussion. Even if you unit down the first 90% if you don't eventually learn to get 5 dexs in one fight, you never finish it. That's just not true with the GM fight
    Sorry if I was not clear. But, I don't mind counters if they are a available in a wide range. Do you bleed has so many counters, not all of them good mind you but just make the fight longer. Champion boss requires a nullifying champs with either good block prof or regen during fight. Kabam are introducing more and more mystic champs that can counter him. But let's face it, rng makes it difficult to aim for champs.
    Dexing him 5 times is another issue altogether. I already said my dexes weren't registering sometimes, add to the fact that some champs have easier time dexing than others. I don't have a problem with the fight itself being what it is. But calling it a purely skill based is not correct. Whether it is more skilled based than GM or not is not something I can say because I have not reached that point. So, I am not going to go into that
    That's not even true bc neither Loki or Hood have amazing block prof or regen and both have been used for the champion fight. It's convenient to have those things but not even slightly necessary
    If you're talking initial clear. To 100% clear Loki and Hood are not counters for no retreat. Anybody can do inital clear with any mystic champion with md4 or above.
  • PulyamanPulyaman Posts: 2,365 ★★★★★
    Notsavage19 said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Notsavage19 said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Worknprogress said:

    Pulyaman said:

    People commenting the champion is skill based are absolutely wrong..it's not a skill fight..if it was many more would complete it and there would be less complaints. I agree many are complaining simply to complain..but that fight required skill and a huge bit of luck to get the required champion. I know 3 or 4 main people get in every post and say thats an skill based gate..but it's really not. We see the grandmaster fight done with all kinds of champion..I am yet to see the champion fight with even mid tier Champs. For me..the champion fight was good..I felt that dexing is special did not register many times..and I have seen people complain about the same thing.. If his specials were projectile based..it would make it easier. All I am seeing here is people who have completed act 6 looking down on people asking the fight to be made easier. Do I think the fight is tough? Yes.. Should it be nerfed? Only interms of removing no retreat and spite. Do I care if they nerf it? Nope. I know I will eventually explore that.

    Most people consider Hood mid tier at best and I personally know multiple people who've used him to beat the champion. People have also used Loki.

    Do certain champs make the fight easier? Sure but most of the champs people claim are NEEDED just aren't in reality.
    Again, You NEED certain champ to do the fight. if it was really just skill based, we would be seeing Swedeah doing that fight with Kamala khan. I think you missed my main point in that it is not purely skill based. And there is no point in gating players from progressing in story mode when its not even just skill. If you want to give players will good skill and roster a challenge? Give maze every month with insane rewards. You don't stop people progressing in the main mode of the game.
    I would call grandmaster fight a gate, purely because as you said, it requires basic skills to progress. Champion fight does not do that.
    I get the point that it should not be an easy fight and it should not be done with unit man either. But the fight must end at some point. I heard a suggestion that every time you died the counter should increase and it should decrease for the dex. There must be some mechanism to make the fight possible. At its current state, its just impossible if you dont have a specific set of counters
    But there has to be fights that require certain counters. There would be no need for new characters if fights were doable with anybody, like the GM.
    Then the acquisition of said counters also has to be somewhat easy. I still don't have loki or hood, two moderate counters for champ as per people here. I got SS after initial completion of 6.2 so things will be easier next time.But not everyone is that lucky
    Why though? Act 6 is a test of roster breadth. That's why they don't allow 4*s. Why should Kabam make it any easier to obtain the right champs?
    I already explained the same. How do you measure roster breadth though? If the act forced you to use all your champs? sure. But, if they keep narrowing the requirements for the fights, then they are testing rng. People may counter me here and say, the more you open, the more chances of you getting the champ. But, even that's not true is it. I just said I don't have Loki or hood as a 5 star and I have opened 100s of 5 stars, legendary, grandmaster, cavalier and featured cavalier crystals. It is even possible that I may never land a loki, hood or a corvus as a 5 star or 6 star. But, I have over 100 5 star champs. When do you consider your roster wide enough? You cannot decide that because you only required rng to be on your side and even opening 10 5 stars you could have an answer to all the nodes in act 6, which is wrong.
  • TheTalentsTheTalents Posts: 2,254 ★★★★★
    Monk1 said:

    TheTalents said:

    The Champion fight is not that skilled based at all. Give everyone perfect block and they could complete the fight. You just need the right champs. When you remove the block damage where's the skill needed? Please explain?

    U just answered your own question. Everyone don’t have perfect t block, cause you can’t just block you need the skill to evade and dex at right moment and manage/counter his mechanics
    You're also forgetting the dex doesn't register everytime if you dodge the headbutt. Its a bs fight. If you play it a bunch of times like we all did he eventually goes down.
    Give grandmaster 50k attk and lets see which fight involves more skill. This praising of the champion fight is annoying. I swear yall think it deserves a gold medal. Just cause you beat the champion doesn't mean you're better.
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