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Show Up Difficulty Feedback [Title Edited for Clarity]

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Comments

  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 20,978 ★★★★★
    Adevati said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Adevati said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    lowlevelplayer said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    lowlevelplayer said:

    TheInfinty said:

    So uh when’s that nerf coming Kabam?

    should've come a minute of two ago. Or maybe, thanks to @Demonzfyre , they cancelled it
    One can hope.
    what exactly do you have against it? Is it that you don't like easy content? Or are you afraid that it sets a dangerous precedent?
    The latter. People wanted changed for the mere fact of they couldn't beat it. People ranked 4*'s for Variant 4 and didn't have a problem, what's one more champ? Stuff like this will keep happening when it's beyond their skill level or wanting to do what it takes to beat it. In this case, rank up a 4* or 2.

    We already do this for every bit of content in the game. Now, one small event is released and the community is against want to rank up a champ.
    The difference is most people expect Variants to be of high skill and end game content. The rewards alone show that—which lessens the cost of ranking up. They are marketed as end game content as well.

    However, this event was marketed as something everyone could enjoy, not just the top players. Had the show up been marketed as a warm up for top players, there would have been less complaints. There would be no reason to adjust the difficulty.

    The people that can complete show up without revives all have a legitimate chance to beat the tourney version or at least do fairly well. Of course, they may not score in the top without their synergies/multiple champs, but they’re in the same league.

    For those that needed revives, the rewards didn’t justify the cost for most.

    So the question is, “Who was the show up designed for?”

    If you say “Most Uncollected and above players”. What we got did not accomplish that goal.

    If you say “Top skilled players”. What we got did accomplish that goal. But again, Kabam didn’t market it that way.

    Thus, they got themselves in a bind. Raise rewards and tell players, “By everyone, we meant those that are really close to competing and high skill but lack top player skill and/or a specific roster.”? Or keep rewards the same, and follow through on their original message of the event being geared towards the average player.

    They chose the path of least resistance.

    It was designed so anyone that can't participate in the tournament could see what they could have been fighting. It wasn't marketed as "so everyone can enjoy". It was marketed as "so everyone can try". They said in the announcement that the fights were identical. But people glaze over that completely. We don't read carefully here in this community and we see what we want to see when it comes to reading. No where in the announcement does it say "we made this for you to enjoy". It was always anyone can try it. They never said everyone could beat it.
    We can argue semantics all we want. What Kabam meant by “no matter progression or level” no one can really say. I personally don’t believe that meant they expected the bulk of the player base to even not try because they had no shot or just die over and over.

    They also said, “If you’re not ready for the Showdown...”

    If the difficulty was left as-is, how many of those that completed it without revives/items/boosts would then go on to either beat the tourney version or at least get SS down below 30%? I’d say 99%. Which again, leaves the show up difficultly basically for the same group of players.

    You’re also choosing to take “just like... with key differences” to an extreme literal to serve your opinion. But that is a very vague comment. If I jump and flip kick a soccer ball, someone could rightfully say, “Wow, that looked just like David Beckham.... with some key differences.” Does that mean I should go pro? Does that mean I really executed it just like a pro?

    The fact remains that the player base did take the wording to mean a significantly easier fight than what the pros will get. Watching Seatin’s reaction when he loaded up show up is pretty telling. I wouldn’t classify him as someone that wants easier content, more rewards, compensation, etc. He genuinely thought the show up would be considerably easier; as did most based on Kabam’s announcement wording.
    That's their own fault for that interpretation. There's no way that could have read "easier". Maybe they really just need to lay out the entire event with pictures and everything instead.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 20,978 ★★★★★
    edited August 2020
    TRONG94 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Adevati said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    lowlevelplayer said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    lowlevelplayer said:

    TheInfinty said:

    So uh when’s that nerf coming Kabam?

    should've come a minute of two ago. Or maybe, thanks to @Demonzfyre , they cancelled it
    One can hope.
    what exactly do you have against it? Is it that you don't like easy content? Or are you afraid that it sets a dangerous precedent?
    The latter. People wanted changed for the mere fact of they couldn't beat it. People ranked 4*'s for Variant 4 and didn't have a problem, what's one more champ? Stuff like this will keep happening when it's beyond their skill level or wanting to do what it takes to beat it. In this case, rank up a 4* or 2.

    We already do this for every bit of content in the game. Now, one small event is released and the community is against want to rank up a champ.
    The difference is most people expect Variants to be of high skill and end game content. The rewards alone show that—which lessens the cost of ranking up. They are marketed as end game content as well.

    However, this event was marketed as something everyone could enjoy, not just the top players. Had the show up been marketed as a warm up for top players, there would have been less complaints. There would be no reason to adjust the difficulty.

    The people that can complete show up without revives all have a legitimate chance to beat the tourney version or at least do fairly well. Of course, they may not score in the top without their synergies/multiple champs, but they’re in the same league.

    For those that needed revives, the rewards didn’t justify the cost for most.

    So the question is, “Who was the show up designed for?”

    If you say “Most Uncollected and above players”. What we got did not accomplish that goal.

    If you say “Top skilled players”. What we got did accomplish that goal. But again, Kabam didn’t market it that way.

    Thus, they got themselves in a bind. Raise rewards and tell players, “By everyone, we meant those that are really close to competing and high skill but lack top player skill and/or a specific roster.”? Or keep rewards the same, and follow through on their original message of the event being geared towards the average player.

    They chose the path of least resistance.

    It was designed so anyone that can't participate in the tournament could see what they could have been fighting. It wasn't marketed as "so everyone can enjoy". It was marketed as "so everyone can try". They said in the announcement that the fights were identical. But people glaze over that completely. We don't read carefully here in this community and we see what we want to see when it comes to reading. No where in the announcement does it say "we made this for you to enjoy". It was always anyone can try it. They never said everyone could beat it.
    After the nerf Silver Surfer will have about 380k health with same attack rating and coldsnap remains. It is way easier than before but in no way is a thing that everyone can beat. It will still be a challenge for many uncollected players.

    If you want a challenge for yourself, bring your 3*s only after the nerf but let more people enjoy the 3k 5* shards. It is a one time side event not the main showdown tournament so I see nothing wrong with letting more players feeling involved in this event.

    And I agree if it is hard then skip it instead of begging for a nerf, however, when they already confirmed they would tune the fight down, they know what is right.
    440k health. I disagree completely but I've made my point several times on why it shouldn't change. Not gonna go through it all again.
  • ThecurlerThecurler Posts: 839 ★★★★
    Personally I'm a bit disheartened it got nerfed so much and so quickly although I understand the reasons why. I won't lose any sleep over a wasted 4* rank up.

    I think the fairest compromise for all would have been to keep the difficulty but scale it to 3*.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 20,978 ★★★★★
    Valentinos13 said:

    OneManArmy said:

    Valentinos13 said:

    OneManArmy said:

    Is this seriously what people wanted? We took a fun challenging fight we could do as many times as we wanted and turned it into yet another steamroll content. Takes about 30-60 seconds for havok. Ghost and colossus to do this fight now. Yayyy such fun...

    Use yr 2star man, will be even more challenging than what it was before.. Harder than main event even
    I beat it already as it was thanks. Was looking forward to the other weeks now not so much. Its the entitlement of some of you that gets to me
    U don't know me, neither u know if I am entitled to any of this, so don't jump to conclusions

    And I competed it also, whats yr point, for the next weeks use yr 2star or 3star and enjoy a challenge and leave the rest have the option to enjoy also

    What is that that will make u less to enjoy it?

    U are entitled also but from the other side of the coin,
    Wait.... we have to "enjoy it" now as it is but all the whiners couldn't enjoy it before the changes? Awesome. So now that you got your way, others' opinions are invalid and we just need to deal with it. Glad to see hypocrisy isn't gone in this world.
  • QfuryQfury Posts: 1,860 ★★★★★
    edited August 2020
    Fight was said and done in about 60 seconds.

    Used cmm, let surfer hit my block to get coldsnaped and build binary quicker, she literally melted 330k health in 50 hits kamikaze style, sp3d and finished off the the last 110k with torch lol, stoopid easy now
  • KDSuperFlash10KDSuperFlash10 Posts: 5,869 ★★★★★
    Ya_Boi_28 said:

    Imo, they nerfed him too hard. I was able to get a 34 hit solo:
    https://youtu.be/-Jt7aSqqy-o

    For the rewards, it's fair imo. The other difficulty should've been at least a 5 star crystal if it remained.
  • GreekhitGreekhit Posts: 2,819 ★★★★★
    Ya_Boi_28 said:

    Imo, they nerfed him too hard. I was able to get a 34 hit solo:
    https://youtu.be/-Jt7aSqqy-o

    Removing the coldsnap node from show up difficulty would be more than enough.
    The fight would be almost identical to the competitive difficulty.
    Players would experience the challenge, but they wouldn’t have to rank up specific 4* champs due to the fight being restrictive.
    Now the fight is a joke 🤣
  • KDoggg2017KDoggg2017 Posts: 1,208 ★★★★
    KDoggg2017 said:

    Kabam Miike said:

    Hey all,

    This is correct. This is a participation event for that want to be a part of the Summoner Showdown, but don't feel comfortable competing in the Showdown qualifiers. It's a taste of what our Competitors are facing and is not meant to be easy.

    It is still meant to be a challenge and a test of skill.

    But it's NOT a test of skill. It rewards the deepest 4* roster... which players have had to ignore to build their 5* and 6* rosters.

    A test of skill looks something like THIS:
    1) The playing field would be evened on a beta server allowing all players access to every single 4*.
    2) A progression of boss health. All players who 1-Shot a 250K Silver Surfer advance to face a 500K boss. Those who 1-Shot that boss advance to the 1 mil health boss. Etc etc.

    This let's all players participate AND let's the cream rise to the top. It's not perfect, of course. Just an idea! 🤷‍♂️
    I posted this nearly 40 pages ago. Bcuz you can't please this community. "It's too difficult"...Or "It's too easy!" 🤷‍♂️

    So next year...
    If I'm Kabam I put 3 bosses in ShowUp.
    Health pools of say 250K, 700K, and 1.4 mil.
    (You only hit the leader board of the highest difficulty you complete).

    Pick the boss you want, run it, and "Shut Up!" 🤫
  • jammasterpjammasterp Posts: 128 ★
    Now that the Show Up difficulty is getting nerfed, is there going to be compensation for those that completed it when it was harder?? @Kabam Miike
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,657 Guardian
    Adevati said:

    If the difficulty was left as-is, how many of those that completed it without revives/items/boosts would then go on to either beat the tourney version or at least get SS down below 30%? I’d say 99%. Which again, leaves the show up difficultly basically for the same group of players.

    That's an incredibly weird statement to make for two reasons. First, Show Up was a lot easier to do itemless for the simple reason you could bring a team of five. That's more attackers you can throw at the fight and more synergy options to leverage. Second, the extra "or at least get SS down below 30%" seems completely random, like you were trying to stick in a disclaimer just for argument's sake. The tournament is for players trying to compete. It seems pretty clear from the leaderboards that to be at all competitive you have to be able to bring down Surfer all the way to zero, and to do so while not even getting hit at all. If you can't do that, you won't even show up on the leaderboards to know where you placed.

    Showdown is for players who think they are, or can compete with, the best of the best. Showup is for players who think they can beat the challenge. In essence, Show Up is PvE content, Showdown is PvP content. Or to put it another way, Showup was something I could (and did) do. Showdown is probably outside my ability to be competitive at, even ignoring the fact that I'm ineligible. So I'm an exception to your assertion that Showdown and Showup were for an identical set of players, and I find it difficult to believe I'm alone.
  • BruhツBruhツ Posts: 2 ★
    Seraphion said:

    SpideyFunko said:

    Seraphion said:

    Okay this 3k 5* shards are not worth the time.

    If you still want to do it itemless:

    Bring Medusa (if you have her) and her Royal family + Heimdal. You can run full suicides no problem. 1 SP1 and then cycle only SP3s. You gain extra powergain if you bleed on your light attacks so going from SP3 to SP3 is not too hard.

    Willpower is key imo. His random heavys (watch out for them/ is like vs Mr Sinister) and SP1s give your armorbreaks = willpower healing.

    I stayed around 70% hp the whole fight.
    It was my 11th try or something.




    And look who haunts me now 😅



    when you have none of those options available (even willpower)

    And thats why this event is not good imo.

    At least put that coldsnap away so you can actuly use champs.
    That the only thing i want because the cold snap really limit the option you have to use
  • PulyamanPulyaman Posts: 2,365 ★★★★★
    Ganesh10a said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Faseeh said:

    For all of you that think the showup was a nerf to the ground, you are probably an endgame player or have completed ac5 maybe. This wasnt meant only for you. This was meant for those people that are finding it hard to beat the mestro or collector. They could benefit from 3k 5* shards unlike you guys. Imagine when they find the surfer has 1.3 mil health ? Their dreams,hopes,everything would be destroyed. It said "open to all"!!!! A 200k-300k health surfer might be doable by them and it could help them practice for the future i think. So overall thnx

    This nerfed version is in no way going to help you in anyway other than get gold and 5* shards. There's no skill left in the fight at all. People like you who can't handle a challenge and think everything has to be catered to your skill cap ruin events. It's disappointing they made the changes to this event and kept the rewards the same.
    You can still use your 4* in this fight. Even better, use 3 or 2 star and prove your skill. This nerf is for the people who needs that 3k 5* and Gold to improve their account. There is no need to be salty about it and blame other people.
    Reducing the health and removing the restrictions was too much. Either one should have left alone. I would have preferred the health be left alone since most people don't use 4 stars and If i wanted I could have used a 4 star. Now, its not that great. And some synergies are not available as a 3 star. So, you cannot just say, use your 3 star and do the same thing.
  • DariusYiDariusYi Posts: 171 ★
    Before it was nerfed, i just laugh and thought to myself, this isn't for me. Then i saw people doing the showup run in 4-10 minutes. Impressed but still think it's not for me.
    Then i saw the backlash in the forum. It's a bomb!

    I just would like to say, thank you kabam. For considering your players' feedback. I'm not a good player, i'll still need revives and pots. But thank you.
    Much appreciated. I just hope that you get to know that some players do appreciate your reconsideration.
  • PulyamanPulyaman Posts: 2,365 ★★★★★
    edited August 2020
    Faseeh said:

    Adevati said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Adevati said:

    If the difficulty was left as-is, how many of those that completed it without revives/items/boosts would then go on to either beat the tourney version or at least get SS down below 30%? I’d say 99%. Which again, leaves the show up difficultly basically for the same group of players.

    That's an incredibly weird statement to make for two reasons. First, Show Up was a lot easier to do itemless for the simple reason you could bring a team of five. That's more attackers you can throw at the fight and more synergy options to leverage. Second, the extra "or at least get SS down below 30%" seems completely random, like you were trying to stick in a disclaimer just for argument's sake. The tournament is for players trying to compete. It seems pretty clear from the leaderboards that to be at all competitive you have to be able to bring down Surfer all the way to zero, and to do so while not even getting hit at all. If you can't do that, you won't even show up on the leaderboards to know where you placed.

    Showdown is for players who think they are, or can compete with, the best of the best. Showup is for players who think they can beat the challenge. In essence, Show Up is PvE content, Showdown is PvP content. Or to put it another way, Showup was something I could (and did) do. Showdown is probably outside my ability to be competitive at, even ignoring the fact that I'm ineligible. So I'm an exception to your assertion that Showdown and Showup were for an identical set of players, and I find it difficult to believe I'm alone.
    You have a reasonable argument that I made arbitrary assertions. However, you also made arbitrary assertions for who the show up difficulty was for. In your mind, show up was for those that were ineligible or really close. In many others’ minds, it was a challenge for the bulk of the player base. And pre-nerf, the bulk of the player base had no shot. Thus, the widespread complaints. People generally don’t complain about content they can complete and have completed. Most of the people here that are criticizing Kabam for changing the difficulty completed the challenge as presented.

    Again, the issue here isn’t that Show Up was too hard. It’s that, as it was presented, most people assumed it would be fairly easy, say Uncollected level of difficulty. It’s perfectly fine if you or anyone else took it as a replica of the tournament. Fact remains, most did not. Many YouTubers, all who completed the challenge as is and most that have accounts loaded with champs and units, ranted about how absurd the difficulty was for the common player (which they thought was the target audience as well). Like I said before, had Kabam marketed this as a replica and warm up only for top players, then that would be fine. People would complain about not being included, but they really wouldn’t have had any leg to stand on. YouTubers wouldn’t have spread the rants like they did. Kabam could have even made it Cavalier only to further illustrate the point of it being difficult. But they did not. They instead made a mention about “any progression or level.”

    And of course you aren’t alone. Odds are whatever opinion you have, someone else has the same one. We see it in this thread. But fact remains, your line of thinking is in the vast minority. YouTubers pushed this message to their thousands of subscribers. The bulk of this thread is for the nerf. This isn’t a “we want everything handed to us.” This is a “we thought we were getting X based on your description, we got Y.” The volume of feedback clarified that statement.

    This will not set some precedent for the community strong arming Kabam into making everything easy mode. This will; however, force Kabam to provide more clarity in their release notes and set better expectations prior to new content being added. And that is not a bad thing by any means.


    Ur absolutely right. We were mislead by the announcement we were first given which is why people were surprised and pissed when they saw 1.4 mil surfer. But all of you that think the pre nerfed version was better keep it to your self now. Kabam isnt gonna un-nerf it .Whats done is done. And all of you that want compensation start another discussion or find one that is related to it. Your comments are gonna get lost in this mountain of a discussion. This thread is for the feedback
    Why do we need to keep it to our self? Whiners certainly did not when the content was perfectly fine. Kabam keeps catering to the lowest denomination in the community which honestly ticks me off. We cannot seem to have any content released now without people complaining and Kabam nerfing them. No one was mislead, the announcement was perfectly clear if you know how to read. Apparently that is a skill many need to master. The icing on the cake is now people will want compensation which seems to be the default mode for every single thing happening to the game.
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