Suicides and Cavalier Difficulty

Prior to 2019 I had been on the fence about switching to Suicides. I had plenty of champs that worked with it, most notably CG, but was successful without all the extra damage. I was able to slice and dice my way through most content. Then Omega Red drops in my lap. Instantly taken to rank 5, and with a nice mutant gem, the switch became a no brainer. For months on end, I cherished the insane damage I've been able to put out. When little to no damage was done to my Suicide friendly champs, I laughed at how awesome it was. Even my champs that would suffer (HT, CAIW, Starky and Void) proved to be strong to be stifled by a little recoil and poison damage.

Low and behold, the introduction of Cavalier difficulty and the health pools associated with them, it's left me in a rather unsure position. What was once a fairly rewarding health loss has become a struggle to even persevere through. Sure, Omega red will thrive. But even CG, with the health allotted takes about 2 cycles to get a champ down. The list goes on.

TLDR: What I'm asking is, are the mastery points, and units still worth it with such a low ROI in the more difficult content? This is less of a discussion about suicides in general and more about whether or not those who have been using it are jumping off the fence.

Comments

  • BerjibsBerjibs Member Posts: 1,540 ★★★★
    I play two accounts only one with suicides.

    Main suicide acc champs are omega, Corvus, warlock, CV. Gotta say I went through cav eq pretty easily, was using Corvus mainly on the last quest and it was fine. I don’t remember going through two sets of charges, using ML combos to get two sp2s out of one set.

    On my other acc it’s still fairly easy going but yeah the fights are clearly a lot longer. For eg the path on the tech quest with korg and storm px was really long and annoying, I didn’t even blink through it comparatively with the suicides.

    Not removing them personally as found they made cav quite a bit easier but it’s all roster dependent I guess. Diss track aside I had strong suicide options in every quest.
  • BerjibsBerjibs Member Posts: 1,540 ★★★★
    As a side note the two new mutants are making them even more appealing. AA that heals from suicides? Yes please.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Member Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    You realize for cav EQ that in most of the quests you get a bigger benefit from using an ideal champ without suicides that plays to the node buffs as opposed to someone not ideal with suicides right?
  • Kill_GreyKill_Grey Member Posts: 8,666 ★★★★★
    Suicides makes it faster, and that's all I'm down for.

    Also, that 4* challenge is quite unbearable without suicides.
  • BerjibsBerjibs Member Posts: 1,540 ★★★★
    edited September 2020

    You realize for cav EQ that in most of the quests you get a bigger benefit from using an ideal champ without suicides that plays to the node buffs as opposed to someone not ideal with suicides right?

    If that’s directed at me, well yeah I guess you could make that point but in most cases with mine I picked champs where they overlapped. Hyperion, Angela, CV, Warlock, G99, Omega, off the top of my head benefitted both from the buff nodes and suicides. Can’t say I ever truly worked out the tech one though...

    Plus, the boss fights and some midpoints aren’t boosted by the nodes.

    Last quest, depending on the path I’d ramp up g99, aegon or Corvus in a fight or two to help with Apocalypse.

    Worked for me at least, I used one revive on the whole thing in the diss track quest, which wasn’t the best for my smallish roster and so had to revert to 4*s for most of it.

    Certainly there were paths where it was much more beneficial using the right champs for the fights rather than trying to shoehorn a class boosted champ in who isn’t really suited.
  • Trizzy_MillzTrizzy_Millz Member Posts: 30
    Berjibs said:

    I play two accounts only one with suicides.

    Main suicide acc champs are omega, Corvus, warlock, CV. Gotta say I went through cav eq pretty easily, was using Corvus mainly on the last quest and it was fine. I don’t remember going through two sets of charges, using ML combos to get two sp2s out of one set.

    On my other acc it’s still fairly easy going but yeah the fights are clearly a lot longer. For eg the path on the tech quest with korg and storm px was really long and annoying, I didn’t even blink through it comparatively with the suicides.

    Not removing them personally as found they made cav quite a bit easier but it’s all roster dependent I guess. Diss track aside I had strong suicide options in every quest.


    But the diss track and buffed up nodes, you can't even use Corvus. He starts with the True strike and nothing else. how were you getting to three buffs. Also, I have a 5/65 Corvus and and running full suicides. with no charges he's doing about 3200-4k per medium. and an s2 can. drop 25k. they have 200k hp. How are you not going through 2 cycles?
  • allinashesallinashes Member Posts: 856 ★★★
    I turned off my suicides for the cav difficulty. I was having difficulty sustaining CAIW with Diss Track and I wanted to toss off those Sp1 for bleeds. I found it much easier to run without suicides and it was kinda fun to throw as many specials as I wanted. Only downside was BWCV felt gimped without suicides, but she still destroyed paths in the last quest so easily.

    I haven't put them back because of cost and I'm not grinding arena much right now, but I'll eventually put them back. They do make most fights much faster and there's so many champs they actually help with little downside.
  • Trizzy_MillzTrizzy_Millz Member Posts: 30
    @allinashes yea, he's another guy that needs that Special damage to realize his potential. I'm really considering dropping back to regular. I am running another account, not nearly as large, but with some strong champs- Namor, G99, CAIW- and the damage isn't as bad as I thought it would be.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Member Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    I haven't run suicides regularly since some time last year. Honestly the only place it hurts is arena. The rest of the game is fine
  • BerjibsBerjibs Member Posts: 1,540 ★★★★

    Berjibs said:

    I play two accounts only one with suicides.

    Main suicide acc champs are omega, Corvus, warlock, CV. Gotta say I went through cav eq pretty easily, was using Corvus mainly on the last quest and it was fine. I don’t remember going through two sets of charges, using ML combos to get two sp2s out of one set.

    On my other acc it’s still fairly easy going but yeah the fights are clearly a lot longer. For eg the path on the tech quest with korg and storm px was really long and annoying, I didn’t even blink through it comparatively with the suicides.

    Not removing them personally as found they made cav quite a bit easier but it’s all roster dependent I guess. Diss track aside I had strong suicide options in every quest.


    But the diss track and buffed up nodes, you can't even use Corvus. He starts with the True strike and nothing else. how were you getting to three buffs. Also, I have a 5/65 Corvus and and running full suicides. with no charges he's doing about 3200-4k per medium. and an s2 can. drop 25k. they have 200k hp. How are you not going through 2 cycles?

    I never said I used him throughout the whole thing, I ramped him up a bit to help with apocalypse on the last quest. Maybe the post is a little ambiguous.

    If you look at my other post you can see there were plenty of times where I was able to use champs that benefit from both the suicide masteries and the nodes.

    Anyway, Corvus, 20 charges = 100k basic hit damage (20 mediums, 20 lights, 5k per pair), 2x sp2 (more like 35k each) plus assassins boost plus hitting into block (1k+ per medium) so 200k damage is easily possible.

    I just tried it again to make sure I’m not going crazy. Vision on the last quest goes down in one set of charges. He is 250k health but obv you have class advantage.

    There are plenty tech champs on other paths you can ramp up on. I grabbed a screenshot halfway so you can see the hit count and healthbar after the first sp2 and 10 glaive charges.



  • Trizzy_MillzTrizzy_Millz Member Posts: 30
    @Berjibs Not trying to be argumentative, just looking at the reward vs risk. I just ran CG against the first Sunspot and I barely got through 60% of his health after a full set. Granted, he's only one champ in the grand scheme of things. But he is a large reason, for my switch to suicides. Being able to to throw unlimited specials for 30% less damage is starting to feel like a better option with these longer fights.
  • Kill_GreyKill_Grey Member Posts: 8,666 ★★★★★

    @Berjibs Not trying to be argumentative, just looking at the reward vs risk. I just ran CG against the first Sunspot and I barely got through 60% of his health after a full set. Granted, he's only one champ in the grand scheme of things. But he is a large reason, for my switch to suicides. Being able to to throw unlimited specials for 30% less damage is starting to feel like a better option with these longer fights.

    For about 50% less actually
  • MattstafariMattstafari Member Posts: 691 ★★★
    I switched off suicides to be able to throw unlimited specials at the start of the year and haven't put them back on. Hyperion is loads of fun and BWCV too.
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  • BerjibsBerjibs Member Posts: 1,540 ★★★★
    Sure @Trizzy_Millz you just gotta do whatever works for you, not arguing against that either, just giving my own experience.

    It’s hugely roster and playstyle dependent, there’s no blanket answer to your question.

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  • Trizzy_MillzTrizzy_Millz Member Posts: 30
    So I'm revisiting this after a little more time going through Cavalier difficulty. The health pools are still large but the shock has worn off. I was able to find some more specific counters and get through without turning suicides off. I do end up losing a bit more health, but it's still working out.
  • Kill_GreyKill_Grey Member Posts: 8,666 ★★★★★
    edited September 2020
    You should check out my thread @Trizzy_Millz
    I used suicides for the entire thing, and didn't suffer one bit. Actually helped me save items, if I think about it.

    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/224690/my-experience-exploring-cavalier-difficulty-plus-my-thoughts-on-the-rewards#latest
  • RapRap Member Posts: 3,233 ★★★★
    Pretty sad the entire game is coming down to one Mastery build and a handful of champs! They have practically eliminated the skill masties usefulness, dexterity no longer works, parry, perfect block all in favor of suicides and OP unblockable champs that any no skill player should be able to win with.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Member Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    Rap said:

    Pretty sad the entire game is coming down to one Mastery build and a handful of champs! They have practically eliminated the skill masties usefulness, dexterity no longer works, parry, perfect block all in favor of suicides and OP unblockable champs that any no skill player should be able to win with.

    Is anything you post not utter nonsense?
  • MauledMauled Member, Guardian Posts: 3,957 Guardian
    I personally find suicides too limiting. Sure it makes certain champions an order of magnitude more powerful but it makes even more champions almost unusable.

    I have OR/Ghost/CG who certainly benefit, a few like Hyperion/Domino/Blade who you could argue aren’t really affected but you have to modify your playstyle for.

    Then there’s the rest - all my mystics, most of my techs, skill, science certainly and frankly I just like throwing special attacks.
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