Throne Breaker Title Discussion [Merged Threads]

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  • Aziz5253Aziz5253 Posts: 476 ★★★

    even so

    Etjama said:

    Etjama said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Etjama said:

    Kappa2g said:

    I'm pretty sure you guys have the statistics, but how many players actually had a R3 6 star when they completed their first run of 6.4?
    The two milestone requirements simply do not match up or have any close relationship between them.

    They are meant to be separate. They are 2 fold here. We could have just made it get 1x Rank 3, but then somewhere down the line, people will get Rank 3s before they complete Act 6, and that doesn't hit both milestones.
    Honestly, if you guys want people to 100% Abyss before getting this title, do it. It just makes way more sense than involving RNG into titles.
    100% Abyss is still lower than we're aiming for, honestly. This title is aimed at people that probably already have teams of Rank 3 6-Stars, but we want to make it more accessible. Again, this was originally going to be for somewhere in the next Act, which would have been aimed at players with multiple Rank 3 Champions.
    So what I am I hearing is that this was planned to roll out in book 2 as part of long term plans and isn’t something you can put off. Being that you pushed back book 2 due to feedback you now need to get this into the game before upcoming events so future plans are not also disrupted.

    The progression requirements were meant to be much more restrictive but since the content to meet those requirements has been delayed you need to at least put in something similar?
    I suspect it might be less an issue of delay, and more an issue of structure. Act 6 and Book 2 were originally envisioned as traditional end game content in my opinion. They were designed under the idea that if most players can't do it, too bad. But as the philosophy has changed to be more like everyone should *eventually* be able to do it, and the difficulty and rewards should be more of a graceful step up from Uncollected to Cav to beyond within that content, the title made less sense to embed within Book 2, because Book 2 would not place as high of a progressional burden.

    At the risk of oversimplifying, I think Thronebreaker is intended to be an end game title (today, before future titles supplant it), but completing Act 6 and even Book 2 is no longer seen as only an end gamer's activity. So instead Kabam wanted to shift from a content-clearing title like Uncollected or Cav to something else that is more correlated with end game accomplishments, and rank 3 rank ups was the obvious next choice. But while content-clearing titles are pretty binary, either you did them or you didn't, rank ups are more hazy because different people rank up at different paces. Some players rank up quickly, some want to rank up more deliberately, and of course things like spending affect how much rank 3 resources a player might have independent of progress. So Kabam decided to ease off of "multiple rank 3s" as being the marker of an end game player for the purposes of the title, and require just one to make sure that the requirement wasn't so high that it cut off too many end game players from the title.
    Pretty much how I feel. With the severe reduction in story content difficulty, there's not really too many other ways they can segment off sections of the playerbase besides also including a measure of roster strength/size.

    I understand people not liking it but with the new direction in content design it's not surprising they also revisited title requirements
    So explain to me how someone who has barely completed Act 6 belongs in that group while someone who has explored everything doesn't.
    The likelihood of someone that has explored "everything" having zero R3 options is basically slim to none. Is it possible and are there probably a small number of people out there in that situation? Absolutely. It's not remotely going to be the norm or even slightly common
    It doesn't have to be everything, there are so many players with no R3 that have explored Act 6. Why should people that lack the skill or time to do so be rewarded because their luck is good while those who do have the skill and/or time don't get rewarded because they aren't lucky?
    They have to draw a line somewhere. An act 6 completion is barely much more tasking than getting cavalier now. The gap between the bottom of cavalier and the top is so massive its almost people playing different games.

    I wish the title would have been behind 100% act 6 AND a R3 personally. They've given a much more lenient requirement. The fact that so many people are upset just shows you how easy it is to get a completion run done now.
    Might I remind you that completing Act 6 and exploring is itself heavily Rng dependent as you need a lot of right Champs for it. Atleast setting the limit to completion is reasonable. I may partially disagree with the r3 thing but I feel they should instead set the limit to 5 r2s to make it more reasonable.
  • Tonym7879Tonym7879 Posts: 17
    Tonym7879 said:

    Arsoz said:

    Rookiie said:

    Because of the requirement to Rank 3 a 6-star, which puts pressure on summoners who don't have good 6-stars to R3, or the right T5CC

    Eventually you will get the needed resources and a good 6 star
    Why should it be about RNG instead of skill? That makes zero sense! The whole rank 3 thing is just dumb.
  • SwarmOfRavensSwarmOfRavens Posts: 494 ★★★

    I think locking it behind Act 6 100% and having at least 1 6r3 is a great idea. It doesn't make sense to have it available after completion since you're likely not going to have the resources to r3 a six star yet. Also, again, make the 14 day calendar a 7 day one.

    Realistically this wouldn't change much. The same complaint would come up, RNG can cause you to miss out on the title despite 100% act 6
  • DarkSoulDLXDarkSoulDLX Posts: 676 ★★★

    HI_guys said:

    Kaloco14 said:

    I appreciate this and the benefits look awesome overall especially the ones you’ll be adding progressively overtime but I don’t understand the r3 restriction seriously I’ve had act 6 completed for a couple months now and I’m almost half way done with exploration and I did everything else else in the game accept abyss and I’m still only half way there too a tech and cosmic t5cc I feel like it shouldn’t have that restriction cuz most players th at just completed act6 won’t have a r3

    I know that nobody wants to hear this, but if there's where you're at in progress, you're just simply not ready for this yet. This is not aimed at Summoners that are still completing this content.
    How about this people who have explored act 6 and still don't meet the requirements? Theya r also not ready?
    No, they are not. Unless you have Rank 3 6-Stars on your team, this is not aimed at you.
    So this progression point update is far from the reach of free to play players

    Though I applaud you but I don't have any money to sprinkle in the air as I clap
    Not really. If you've noticed, T5CCs have become more available the last few months. Not in spades, mind you. They're still being paced. There will be more in the future, and part of that means having requirements for future perks such as this which aren't immediately accessible, but not unreasonably attainable. There will be more. It's also not necessary to spend. Perhaps if you have less patience, but spending has only ever accelerated things. That's all it does. Speed up time.
    Well said I was just comprehensive wether this act will increase the gap between free to play players and 'the whales' further

    Kabam have alot of uncertainty ongoing right now perhaps this is not yet the wisest option
  • MattstafariMattstafari Posts: 389 ★★
    If the last few months are anything to go by, I'm expecting resources and 5* / 6* shards to become more available. Act 6 is very reliant on the right champs and only 5* / 6*. So even if you aren't going to get the title for a while, you should be building up your roster a bit faster now.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 5,726 ★★★★★
    ValBr111 said:

    HI_guys said:

    Odachi said:

    I know that there have been a few cases recently where a lot of public outburst has caused kabam to reverse their decisions but I have to ask please do NOT reverse this decision. I'm fairly sure this thread is just a lot of loud people saying the same time (rng yadayadayada) but I also think the loudest might not of even done 6.2.6 let alone the grandmaster as just like to complain.

    Yeah I'm really hoping they find their spine again on this one
    You act like responding and rectifying based on feedback is a bad thing
    No I'm acting like constantly caving to the loudest people just incentivizes more crying. It's like feeding a stray cat, they just keep coming back. The things people complain endlessly about now are absolutely ridiculous.
    Except that the complaints are completely justified. At least the people against it are actually posting viable evidence, unlike you.
    You think the complaints about cav EQ were justified? Lol

    I didn't even have a problem with most of Act 6. The only things I really wanted to see changed were the sinister fight and mordo. Instead they completely gutted it and made it a cakewalk. Honestly if they really wanted to separate the playerbase they'd have made this title for people who explored Act 6 in its original state and then just stayed course with the next title somewhere in Book 2
  • HI_guysHI_guys Posts: 4,542 ★★★★★

    HI_guys said:

    Odachi said:

    I know that there have been a few cases recently where a lot of public outburst has caused kabam to reverse their decisions but I have to ask please do NOT reverse this decision. I'm fairly sure this thread is just a lot of loud people saying the same time (rng yadayadayada) but I also think the loudest might not of even done 6.2.6 let alone the grandmaster as just like to complain.

    Yeah I'm really hoping they find their spine again on this one
    You act like responding and rectifying based on feedback is a bad thing
    No I'm acting like constantly caving to the loudest people just incentivizes more crying. It's like feeding a stray cat, they just keep coming back. The things people complain endlessly about now are absolutely ridiculous.
    But it's justified here no matter what you say. No amount of mental gymnastics can convince me that a person who got lucky or spend a lot of money is more worth for the title than the person with the skill to fcking explore act 6.
  • EtjamaEtjama Posts: 7,165 ★★★★★

    ValBr111 said:

    HI_guys said:

    Odachi said:

    I know that there have been a few cases recently where a lot of public outburst has caused kabam to reverse their decisions but I have to ask please do NOT reverse this decision. I'm fairly sure this thread is just a lot of loud people saying the same time (rng yadayadayada) but I also think the loudest might not of even done 6.2.6 let alone the grandmaster as just like to complain.

    Yeah I'm really hoping they find their spine again on this one
    You act like responding and rectifying based on feedback is a bad thing
    No I'm acting like constantly caving to the loudest people just incentivizes more crying. It's like feeding a stray cat, they just keep coming back. The things people complain endlessly about now are absolutely ridiculous.
    Except that the complaints are completely justified. At least the people against it are actually posting viable evidence, unlike you.
    You think the complaints about cav EQ were justified? Lol

    I didn't even have a problem with most of Act 6. The only things I really wanted to see changed were the sinister fight and mordo. Instead they completely gutted it and made it a cakewalk. Honestly if they really wanted to separate the playerbase they'd have made this title for people who explored Act 6 in its original state and then just stayed course with the next title somewhere in Book 2
    Now this, this is exactly how I feel. But not Act 6 in it's completely original state. As you said, Sinister and Mordo need nerfed.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 26,734 ★★★★★
    HI_guys said:

    HI_guys said:

    Odachi said:

    I know that there have been a few cases recently where a lot of public outburst has caused kabam to reverse their decisions but I have to ask please do NOT reverse this decision. I'm fairly sure this thread is just a lot of loud people saying the same time (rng yadayadayada) but I also think the loudest might not of even done 6.2.6 let alone the grandmaster as just like to complain.

    Yeah I'm really hoping they find their spine again on this one
    You act like responding and rectifying based on feedback is a bad thing
    No I'm acting like constantly caving to the loudest people just incentivizes more crying. It's like feeding a stray cat, they just keep coming back. The things people complain endlessly about now are absolutely ridiculous.
    But it's justified here no matter what you say. No amount of mental gymnastics can convince me that a person who got lucky or spend a lot of money is more worth for the title than the person with the skill to fcking explore act 6.
    Actually, I think the opposite is a larger concern. If people are getting through everything and not developing their Accounts properly, that worries me about many things.
  • ChriissRChriissR Posts: 376 ★★★
    gsil6374 said:

    The strong are going to get even stronger now with this. People like me who have beaten 6.4 won't get the benefits. Not only do you NEED a great 6 star, but the Kabam gods make it so you NEED to have enough T5CC to rank up that champion. It is no longer about being good enough at this game to achieve what is a huge milestone. Times are changing.

    Well, I figure someone like you would complain regardless even if they made it 100% Act 6.
  • DarkSoulDLXDarkSoulDLX Posts: 676 ★★★

    Aziz5253 said:

    even so

    Etjama said:

    Etjama said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Etjama said:

    Kappa2g said:

    I'm pretty sure you guys have the statistics, but how many players actually had a R3 6 star when they completed their first run of 6.4?
    The two milestone requirements simply do not match up or have any close relationship between them.

    They are meant to be separate. They are 2 fold here. We could have just made it get 1x Rank 3, but then somewhere down the line, people will get Rank 3s before they complete Act 6, and that doesn't hit both milestones.
    Honestly, if you guys want people to 100% Abyss before getting this title, do it. It just makes way more sense than involving RNG into titles.
    100% Abyss is still lower than we're aiming for, honestly. This title is aimed at people that probably already have teams of Rank 3 6-Stars, but we want to make it more accessible. Again, this was originally going to be for somewhere in the next Act, which would have been aimed at players with multiple Rank 3 Champions.
    So what I am I hearing is that this was planned to roll out in book 2 as part of long term plans and isn’t something you can put off. Being that you pushed back book 2 due to feedback you now need to get this into the game before upcoming events so future plans are not also disrupted.

    The progression requirements were meant to be much more restrictive but since the content to meet those requirements has been delayed you need to at least put in something similar?
    I suspect it might be less an issue of delay, and more an issue of structure. Act 6 and Book 2 were originally envisioned as traditional end game content in my opinion. They were designed under the idea that if most players can't do it, too bad. But as the philosophy has changed to be more like everyone should *eventually* be able to do it, and the difficulty and rewards should be more of a graceful step up from Uncollected to Cav to beyond within that content, the title made less sense to embed within Book 2, because Book 2 would not place as high of a progressional burden.

    At the risk of oversimplifying, I think Thronebreaker is intended to be an end game title (today, before future titles supplant it), but completing Act 6 and even Book 2 is no longer seen as only an end gamer's activity. So instead Kabam wanted to shift from a content-clearing title like Uncollected or Cav to something else that is more correlated with end game accomplishments, and rank 3 rank ups was the obvious next choice. But while content-clearing titles are pretty binary, either you did them or you didn't, rank ups are more hazy because different people rank up at different paces. Some players rank up quickly, some want to rank up more deliberately, and of course things like spending affect how much rank 3 resources a player might have independent of progress. So Kabam decided to ease off of "multiple rank 3s" as being the marker of an end game player for the purposes of the title, and require just one to make sure that the requirement wasn't so high that it cut off too many end game players from the title.
    Pretty much how I feel. With the severe reduction in story content difficulty, there's not really too many other ways they can segment off sections of the playerbase besides also including a measure of roster strength/size.

    I understand people not liking it but with the new direction in content design it's not surprising they also revisited title requirements
    So explain to me how someone who has barely completed Act 6 belongs in that group while someone who has explored everything doesn't.
    The likelihood of someone that has explored "everything" having zero R3 options is basically slim to none. Is it possible and are there probably a small number of people out there in that situation? Absolutely. It's not remotely going to be the norm or even slightly common
    It doesn't have to be everything, there are so many players with no R3 that have explored Act 6. Why should people that lack the skill or time to do so be rewarded because their luck is good while those who do have the skill and/or time don't get rewarded because they aren't lucky?
    They have to draw a line somewhere. An act 6 completion is barely much more tasking than getting cavalier now. The gap between the bottom of cavalier and the top is so massive its almost people playing different games.

    I wish the title would have been behind 100% act 6 AND a R3 personally. They've given a much more lenient requirement. The fact that so many people are upset just shows you how easy it is to get a completion run done now.
    Might I remind you that completing Act 6 and exploring is itself heavily Rng dependent as you need a lot of right Champs for it. Atleast setting the limit to completion is reasonable. I may partially disagree with the r3 thing but I feel they should instead set the limit to 5 r2s to make it more reasonable.
    This entire game is built around RNG. I cannot fathom how some of you continue to play the game but fail to accept this
    Yes only a minority of the game does not but this is only based around aged items such as Tier 4 class catalyst selectors and the 5 star awakening gem selector offer
  • Lvernon15Lvernon15 Posts: 10,433 ★★★★★
    FRITO_Man said:



    R3 THAT PHONEIX FOR FAT PRESTIGE
    I have an ally member who took Phoenix to r3 for prestige 😂
  • JadedJaded Posts: 2,888 ★★★★★
    Jestress said:

    HI_guys said:

    To be really clear here (and let the dislikes pour in), this is meant to be a differentiating factor between players in the Cavalier progression level, and those that are far advanced from there.

    As you guys are well aware, there is a huge breadth of players that have hit Cavalier status, from those that have beaten Act 6 Chapter 1 just once, to those that have explored Abyss of Legends, and take on the Grandmaster and Champion bosses daily just for fun.

    It becomes extremely difficult for us to make content that targets everybody in that group when one end is so far ahead of the other. As we moved away from making Act content our measuring stick for Summoner Roster and Skill Progression, we had to move to other measurements. Having 1x Rank 3 6-Star is quite low on the scale of differentiation since many of these Summoners have quite a lot more.

    If you haven't hit that point yet, that's okay. There's still a lot for you to benefit from as a Cavalier, and those benefits will help you as you progress and grow towards the next level.

    I’ve completed Act 6. I can 100% Cavalier difficulty. I’m no where near a R3 because RNG won’t go my way. If you plan on making t5cc truly available to where I don’t have to 100% Act or complete an AOL path just to know you’ll have a full one, then this is ok. However if you’re just going to keep giving 20% a month and in that 20% you’re giving 2% crystals that FURTHER make it an RNG dependent title, then it’s a load of BS.
    There's a pretty great special Nexus Crystal and T5CC in the Abyss Rewards.

    Before somebody else posts it, let me: "Don't have an R3? Kabam Miike just said beat Abyss to get this, like that's easy!"

    The Abyss of Legends is an option but it's not the only way. And to be frank, this title is more aimed at those that can 100% Abyss of Legends. We just chose to make it easier than that for those that choose alternate ways to progress their Rosters.

    If we hadn't shifted the philosophy for where to put this, you would have gotten it probably after Chapter 2 of Book 2 Act 1. This would have been aimed at Summoners with teams of Rank 3 Champions.

    You have time. You don't have to do this today, or even right when this comes out. Use your Cavalier Benefits to help you progress our team.

    EDIT: I had mistakenly said there's a T5CC Selector in the Abyss Rewards.
    The edit shows how aware you are of the game and progression. So stop defending the 6* r3 restriction
    Hey man, I've got to keep info on every part of the game in my head. I will definitely make mistakes, and I am going to double down on defending this requirement because this is much lower than originally intended when it was just based on Act Progression.
    I don't get it. Why didn't you just leave it till Act 7 chapter 2. You keep bringing that up, again and again, defending this decision by saying that you were being generous by doing it now rather than in Act 7 chapter 2. I'd much rather have had this in Act 7 chapter 2 where it is progression based, not rank up based. You should get titles by completing challenging content, not making rank ups based on RNG.
    We made a pretty fundamental shift in the way in which we're treating Act Content. It's not longer just meant to be harder and harder, and a hard check on your Roster (check out Beta Footage of the new Act Content, versus the one that came out earlier this Summer before we went back to the drawing board).

    It's not a progression point the way that Act 5 or 6 was anymore, so we had to look for other ways to measure progress.
    So completing difficult content is no longer considered "progress?"

    Let's throw out a scenario here. Let's call it... 6.2. In 6.2 you introduced class and champion gates that greatly restricted a players ability to complete the content. You became Cavalier after you beat 6.2. Even you, Kabam, acknowledged that class and rarity gates were poorly designed. Now, you're granting players the opportunity to become a Throne Breaker by beating 6.4... and by having a 6* R3 champion.

    Please explain to me how we learned and evolved from 6.2?
    Being cavalier means beating 6.1...
  • EtjamaEtjama Posts: 7,165 ★★★★★
    edited September 2020
    ChriissR said:

    Should be 100% Act 6. Shouldn't even be available to people who do one run of 6.4.

    Exactly, people are acting like we want it to be available for those that have completed Act 6. That's not the case. Abyss completion or Act 6 exploration guarantee you a T5CC. What it doesn't guarantee you is the right T5CC or the right 6* to use it on. So I don't get why in the world it can't be based off those points in story.
  • SwarmOfRavensSwarmOfRavens Posts: 494 ★★★
    Lvernon15 said:

    FRITO_Man said:



    R3 THAT PHONEIX FOR FAT PRESTIGE
    I have an ally member who took Phoenix to r3 for prestige 😂
    Not a bad Choice if she serves a purpose. I've already resigned to the fact that my skill rank up will be for prestige
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