Falcon's Lock on Vs. Tunnel Vision

Blackadder17996Blackadder17996 Member Posts: 62 ★
edited November 2020 in General Discussion
I just got wrecked by the Stealth Spidey on 6.4.1 when using Falcon's Lock-On. Falter works and Falcon misses. Is that how it is intended to work? @Kabam Miike
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Comments

  • MagrailothosMagrailothos Member Posts: 5,964 ★★★★★
    In fairness, Rage does at least say it's not susceptible to AAR; although I'm not sure if always has.

    Hate it, though!
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  • Colonaut123Colonaut123 Member Posts: 3,091 ★★★★★
    I think falter is offensive AA, as it is a debuff applied on you. As soon you have the debuff on you, it is guaranteed to cause miss, unless you've a champion that can't miss. So Falcon's Locked On works correctly.

    I agree for consistency sake, miss should be subject to AAR like evade or auto-block. I also think champions who are immune to reverse control should also be immune to falter.
  • Colonaut123Colonaut123 Member Posts: 3,091 ★★★★★
    HI_guys said:

    Colonaut123 said:

    I think falter is offensive AA, as it is a debuff applied on you. As soon you have the debuff on you, it is guaranteed to cause miss, unless you've a champion that can't miss. So Falcon's Locked On works correctly.

    I agree for consistency sake, miss should be subject to AAR like evade or auto-block. I also think champions who are immune to reverse control should also be immune to falter.

    Offensive AA s those abulities triggered when the opponent attacks you. Not those debuffs applied in you
    It is for all abilities the opponent applies on you, which includes falter. Not all offensive abilities are triggered when you get hit.
  • K00shMaanK00shMaan Member Posts: 1,289 ★★★★
    edited November 2020
    Colonaut123 said:

    HI_guys said:

    Colonaut123 said:

    I think falter is offensive AA, as it is a debuff applied on you. As soon you have the debuff on you, it is guaranteed to cause miss, unless you've a champion that can't miss. So Falcon's Locked On works correctly.

    I agree for consistency sake, miss should be subject to AAR like evade or auto-block. I also think champions who are immune to reverse control should also be immune to falter.

    Offensive AA s those abulities triggered when the opponent attacks you. Not those debuffs applied in you
    It is for all abilities the opponent applies on you, which includes falter. Not all offensive abilities are triggered when you get hit.
    It's all semantics. The AAR should prevent the Falter from being applied not stop a character with Falter from missing. It's similar to the interaction with Slow and Unstoppable. Slow prevents the Ability Accuracy of Unstoppable effects but if you're already Unstoppable it won't have an effect on that one.
  • Agent_X_zzzAgent_X_zzz Member Posts: 4,498 ★★★★★
    Magrailothos said:

    Annoyingly, Miss appears to be a mechanic that isn't susceptible to AAR. It also bypasses True Strike/True Accuracy. You need a champ who "Can't Miss" for that such as Nick Fury, Human Torch, or Stealthy.

    There are also various nodes that you might expect Falcon to bypass that he can't, such as Rage and Crit me with Your Best Shot

    Working this out is one reason I decided not to take up my Falcon. At least, not yet.

    True Strike is not built to counter any "Miss Mechanics" Only resistances, armour, evasion and autoblock.
  • Iron_Patriot_is_litIron_Patriot_is_lit Member Posts: 1,860 ★★★★★
    Magrailothos said:

    In fairness, Rage does at least say it's not susceptible to AAR; although I'm not sure if always has.

    Hate it, though!

    Rage is weird man. AAR wasn’t working for me on that rage path in EQ, but it was working just fine on the corvus in V4.
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  • VinkskeVinkske Member Posts: 12 ★
    Auto block also triggers when you hit the opponent but is considered defensive mechanic so switched off during lock on.

    Is there a list of abilities per champ that are considered defensive AA? For example: korg rock shield doesn’t give damage back. But shrug off parry still works during lock on. Invisible woman shield still causes miss even though in my opinion this is defensive ability.

    I can’t find anywhere which abilities are considered defensive (so switched off by lock on).

    Thanks!
  • WOLF_LINKWOLF_LINK Member Posts: 1,376 ★★★★
    edited November 2020
    @Vinkske
    I think defensive abilities are those affecting the Defender (like AutoBlock, shields and stuff) while anything affecting your Champ = the Attacker are considered offensive abilities. Like you bleeding when hitting Morningstar or you getting any other debuff.

    Korg‘s Rocks ... I think they are Passives and can‘t be eaten by Symbios or other Buff removing Champs. They are probably not affected by any AAR and will always be able to shrug off Parrys.
  • VinkskeVinkske Member Posts: 12 ★
    Thx. But this is not really helpful. Why is agent venoms shrug off disabled by lock on en why is korg still shrugging off parry? How is force field of invisible woman not a defensive ability but rock stacks of thing are? I miss the logic behind this.

    So I’d like to be able to see the defensive abilities of each champ. Then I know what should be disabled by falcons lock on and what isn’t.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Member Posts: 4,965 ★★★★★
    Defensive Abilities are those that activate when being hit/struck (blocking or not) while Offensive Abilities are those that activate when hit/struck (blocking or not).

    Agent Venom’s Tenacity will trigger when Falcon attempts to parry stun him (offensive ability, since it was the result of AV striking Falcon) but not when Falcon applies a bleed (defensive ability, since it was the result of Falcon striking AV), while locked on.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Member Posts: 4,965 ★★★★★
    And to the thread.
    Kabam Zibiit said:

    Hey there, I checked with the team and this interaction is working correctly. For Champions like Darkhawk, Ghost, and Hood, you can do things to help prevent them from going into their modes that cause Miss, but once they are in those modes, Miss can't be prevented by ability accuracy reduction. It can still be prevented by abilities that prevent Miss outright though, such as Nick Fury at 5+ Tactical Charges or Human Torch above 10 Temperature.

  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Member Posts: 4,965 ★★★★★
    CoatHang3r said:

    while Offensive Abilities are those that activate when hit/struck (blocking or not).

    I screwed that up. *while Offensive Abilities are those that activate when hitting/striking (blocking or not).

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  • VinkskeVinkske Member Posts: 12 ★
    @CoatHang3r howcome miss is not disabled by lock on? This is a mechanic when being struck so a defensive mechanic?
  • magnus_xixmagnus_xix Member Posts: 2,019 ★★★★★
    The same way u can't prevent DOT debuffs from ticking u can't prevent a falter from missing.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Member Posts: 4,965 ★★★★★
    Vinkske said:

    @CoatHang3r howcome miss is not disabled by lock on? This is a mechanic when being struck so a defensive mechanic?

    CoatHang3r said:

    And to the thread.

    Kabam Zibiit said:

    Hey there, I checked with the team and this interaction is working correctly. For Champions like Darkhawk, Ghost, and Hood, you can do things to help prevent them from going into their modes that cause Miss, but once they are in those modes, Miss can't be prevented by ability accuracy reduction. It can still be prevented by abilities that prevent Miss outright though, such as Nick Fury at 5+ Tactical Charges or Human Torch above 10 Temperature.

  • DjinDjin Member Posts: 1,962 ★★★★★
    magnus_xix said:

    The same way u can't prevent DOT debuffs from ticking u can't prevent a falter from missing.

    This^
    Falter is an effect. If it activates successfully it can't be stopped untill it is expired no matter how strong your ability accuracy reduction is.
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  • DjinDjin Member Posts: 1,962 ★★★★★
    HI_guys said:

    Djin said:

    magnus_xix said:

    The same way u can't prevent DOT debuffs from ticking u can't prevent a falter from missing.

    This^
    Falter is an effect. If it activates successfully it can't be stopped untill it is expired no matter how strong your ability accuracy reduction is.
    Lock on is an effect right? It shouldn't be prevented by anything right? Why does glancing prevent it?
    Glancing has priority over Lock On. When falcon hits Glancings OAAR reduces LockOn's DAAR.

    Now explain this..

    Juggs have unstoppable and Lock On...
    According to Lock On it will reduce defensive ability by 100%.... I hit Juggs so unstoppable is defensive right?.... It should have no effect.... But that doesn't happen.
  • VinkskeVinkske Member Posts: 12 ★
    @djin according to The explained I received above defensive abilities are abilities triggered upon being struck. Unstoppable is active also when you’re not struck so I guess it’s not considered being a defensive mechanism
  • DjinDjin Member Posts: 1,962 ★★★★★
    edited November 2020
    Vinkske said:

    @djin according to The explained I received above defensive abilities are abilities triggered upon being struck. Unstoppable is active also when you’re not struck so I guess it’s not considered being a defensive mechanism

    You don't understand defensive and offensive abilities.
    Let's take two champ X and Y.
    Let X hit Y
    •If Y activates any ability it's defensive.
    •If X activates any ability it's offensive.

    In this case Falc hit Juggs and Juggs activate unstoppable so it's defensive.
    Edit:
    If what you're saying is true, champs with evade buff should be able evade even with Lock On.
  • VinkskeVinkske Member Posts: 12 ★
    Defensive is an ability that triggers when being struck. Jugs unstoppable triggers at anytime not just being struck. So it’s no defensive ability.
    Evade triggers only when being struck so this is defensive ability.

    I agree it’s not always logical because in my opinion miss is also a mechanic that only triggers when being struck as well as glancing but this was explained in this topic already.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Member Posts: 4,965 ★★★★★
    Or Unstoppable is like Miss, it is not subject to AAR? Entering unstoppable can be affected by AAR but once Unstoppable countering it requires mechanics specific to Unstoppable like Slow.

    You can evidence this easily by dueling an unstoppable opponent with Quake then striking them while they are both concussed and unstoppable.


  • DjinDjin Member Posts: 1,962 ★★★★★
    Lol I know Unstoppable is similar to falter. I was trying to see how HI_guys would explain Lock on and Unstoppable interaction.
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