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Thronebreaker monthly quest is needed-here's why

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    OGAvengerOGAvenger Posts: 1,116 ★★★★★
    You’d think when they roll out a new difficulty they’d also have plans already being worked on for an EQ of that same difficulty. Give it a month or two to work some kinks out but then have the monthly EQ ready to go.

    But what do I know?
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    Andyball270Andyball270 Posts: 303 ★★★

    I’m strongly against TB level difficulty monthly quests...

    It’s just a game, no need to “push” players to experience TB challenge every single month...

    One-time challenge like endgame boss rush every several months is sufficient

    Why would you be strongly against it? if you dont want to play it you can stick to cavalier. Thats the benefit of having multiple difficultys so you can choose where is right for your skill and roster. At the moment cavalier isnt right for my skill and roster
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    Andyball270Andyball270 Posts: 303 ★★★
    OGAvenger said:

    You’d think when they roll out a new difficulty they’d also have plans already being worked on for an EQ of that same difficulty. Give it a month or two to work some kinks out but then have the monthly EQ ready to go.

    But what do I know?

    You would think. And people have been crying out for thronebreaker since the title was lauched so its not like its a new request
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    OGAvengerOGAvenger Posts: 1,116 ★★★★★

    I’m strongly against TB level difficulty monthly quests...

    It’s just a game, no need to “push” players to experience TB challenge every single month...

    One-time challenge like endgame boss rush every several months is sufficient

    Your reasoning doesn’t make any sense but to play devils advocate the main reasoning I can see them holding on new EQ difficulties is because they obviously have to bump the rewards significantly for that group. Then you have players grinding out resources and shards from UC, Cav and TB every month getting quite a large amount of stuff.

    But I’m sure they could find a way to slightly limit that or even accept that these players are using 50+ energy refills worth of energy to complete all that nonsense so if they put in all that time then give them those “extra” rewards
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    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,781 Guardian

    DrZola said:

    I think the issue cavalier difficulty has is it isn't particularly clear who it is for. The endgame thronebreaker level players have the size and depth of roster to do 5 high level champs of each class in a team + boss counters ,which whilst not a requirement makes it substantially easier, are too high level to find the rewards exciting. The lower early cav end of players find the rewards exciting as their is a lot of t5b and t2a compared to uncollected to help to establish a strong 5/65 roster, however to get them they need roster depth for some of the niche stuff like global biohazard or diss track nodes. Cav difficulty was a request of the community for a while but because it was only released very close to thronebreaker title, the endgame level players had moved beyond what the early cavs needed and since we don't have thronebreaker monthly EQ they end up doing the highest difficulty available for sub-par (for their level) rewards. so unhappy endgamers, but to make sure that endgame players have something to do they they are continuing to tune the nodes to favour depth of roster over skill adding in mechanics like evade and healing as supposed to stuff that is skill based, to create end-game content which leaves the average player in need of te rewards struggling.

    This is why I think cav should be tuned to be inclusive allowing cav players to build up rosters as they transition to endgame players in readiness for niche stuff in act 6 exploration and future variants, and then having thronebreaker difficulty on a monthly basis with higher level rewards and the similar niche nodes to fit the depth of roster endgame players have, as well as higher health and just difficult champions to provide a monthly endgame level challenge for the highest level rewards in game such a 25% T5cc selector for 100% or some such.

    finally have this difficulty as breaker of thrones as in for act 6 completion but not r3 6* so that late cav players have better access to t5cc and could perhaps do initial completion of this endgame challenge with some item use to get a say 10% selector and help build them towards eventually becoming throne-breaker

    I don't understand why you want to call it Thronebreaker difficulty and it's not for Thronebreakers only.
    not fixated on that just wanted to try to prevent a problem before it starts, if thronebreaker EQ was introduced as the main to get t5 CC and you need a fully formed t5cc to get access to that diff EQ (for a r3 6*)t I could see it causing a problem if mismanaged since kabam particularly during the launch if thronebreaker began to detract cavalier as well as push thronebreaker, so I could see a bottleneck forming as kabam drives cost of t5cc higher for cav players and move a lot of available t5cc to thronebreaker only progression level.
    Well first off, Kabam will never have a "main" place to get a single resource. They are spread out over all the content has to offer. If Cavalier difficulty is for those with the Cav title, Thronebreaker difficulty will be for those with the TB title. They shouldn't change that progression path because Cav players feel they don't have enough T5CC. The problem for Cav players that aren't TB is that they aren't doing everything they can to get the T5CC that is available to them but expect the same treatment as TB players.

    The only thing Cav players can say where Kabam did them dirty was cyber weekend deals. That's really about it. The requirements for TB are so low right now that having that level of difficulty but still allowing anyone who doesn't have R3 6*'s but 1 run through Act 6 will only lead to so many complaints about how hard the content is. We saw it with UC, we saw it with Cav and we'll still see it with the next level.

    What Kabam really needs to do is find a better why to qualify people for content they are suited to for EQ's so we can stop all this title nonsense.
    I hear “content qualification” and I think: what else is there?

    The team tried Summoner Level (and still uses it), but odometers have been stuck on L60 forever it seems.

    The team tried rarity gates and got blasted for it.

    The team tried a title system using a combo of story progression and rarity+rankup and that has gone over poorly.

    It’s too late now, but it would have been worth a try to be able to restart the Summoner Level in increments only after certain story progression points—say, you can’t get beyond L60 unless you 100% Acts 1-5, or you are stuck at max L70 until you 100% Act 6, and so on. Those subsequent Summoner levels should have been fairly consequential.

    I tend to think unlocking content should be tied to Story progression, but I’d even be willing to consider some form of locked content that requires special quest completion.

    As a side note, the perqs of the TB title are good, but not what I would call game-changing (apart from last year’s offers, which I agree were tone deaf). You get some already available cats, a couple more Cav crystals and a glory-shot of weekly 5% T5c and a monthly 10% T5c.

    Not bad, but it’s nothing worth having a conniption over (yet).

    Dr. Zola
    I'm at the point now that they should just open all content to everyone. If they can't do it, they can't do it. No matter what Kabam does to lock content so they don't get overconfident summoners, we always see the same results. Everyone assumes that now I have title "X", I can beat that type of content. We then see them on here complaining about how hard it is and that the content should be tuned down etc...

    I don't know what the true solution is. I won't ever pretend to know either. None of this will ever be perfect because there will always be players who think they deserve something someone else has just because. Open it all to everyone and let them try. Of course then Kabam will be blamed for content being a cash grab lol.
    The idea being that every player is now responsible for their own actions and choices. If they get a bad experience it is 100% their own fault.

    Except if you let people have that option and too many take it, pretty soon you don't have a game. It is easy to say let everyone do whatever they want, but people who believe this don't make games as a service. They make sandboxes. And if you *really* believe in the principle that players should be allowed to do whatever they want to and have the capability of doing, you are far more likely to make a *single player game* where you can better deliver that experience.

    This may seem too obvious to state, but games are made by game developers. And most games attract the kind of people who believe in the kind of game that game actually is. You don't join the MCOC team because you believe lootboxes are evil, or Marvel characters suck, or fighting games are stupid. And you probably don't join a games as a service dev team if you don't believe in experience curation.
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    ShrimpRShrimpR Posts: 245
    Agree, we don't have many things to play in this game after all quests were complete
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    DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 21,193 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    DrZola said:

    I think the issue cavalier difficulty has is it isn't particularly clear who it is for. The endgame thronebreaker level players have the size and depth of roster to do 5 high level champs of each class in a team + boss counters ,which whilst not a requirement makes it substantially easier, are too high level to find the rewards exciting. The lower early cav end of players find the rewards exciting as their is a lot of t5b and t2a compared to uncollected to help to establish a strong 5/65 roster, however to get them they need roster depth for some of the niche stuff like global biohazard or diss track nodes. Cav difficulty was a request of the community for a while but because it was only released very close to thronebreaker title, the endgame level players had moved beyond what the early cavs needed and since we don't have thronebreaker monthly EQ they end up doing the highest difficulty available for sub-par (for their level) rewards. so unhappy endgamers, but to make sure that endgame players have something to do they they are continuing to tune the nodes to favour depth of roster over skill adding in mechanics like evade and healing as supposed to stuff that is skill based, to create end-game content which leaves the average player in need of te rewards struggling.

    This is why I think cav should be tuned to be inclusive allowing cav players to build up rosters as they transition to endgame players in readiness for niche stuff in act 6 exploration and future variants, and then having thronebreaker difficulty on a monthly basis with higher level rewards and the similar niche nodes to fit the depth of roster endgame players have, as well as higher health and just difficult champions to provide a monthly endgame level challenge for the highest level rewards in game such a 25% T5cc selector for 100% or some such.

    finally have this difficulty as breaker of thrones as in for act 6 completion but not r3 6* so that late cav players have better access to t5cc and could perhaps do initial completion of this endgame challenge with some item use to get a say 10% selector and help build them towards eventually becoming throne-breaker

    I don't understand why you want to call it Thronebreaker difficulty and it's not for Thronebreakers only.
    not fixated on that just wanted to try to prevent a problem before it starts, if thronebreaker EQ was introduced as the main to get t5 CC and you need a fully formed t5cc to get access to that diff EQ (for a r3 6*)t I could see it causing a problem if mismanaged since kabam particularly during the launch if thronebreaker began to detract cavalier as well as push thronebreaker, so I could see a bottleneck forming as kabam drives cost of t5cc higher for cav players and move a lot of available t5cc to thronebreaker only progression level.
    Well first off, Kabam will never have a "main" place to get a single resource. They are spread out over all the content has to offer. If Cavalier difficulty is for those with the Cav title, Thronebreaker difficulty will be for those with the TB title. They shouldn't change that progression path because Cav players feel they don't have enough T5CC. The problem for Cav players that aren't TB is that they aren't doing everything they can to get the T5CC that is available to them but expect the same treatment as TB players.

    The only thing Cav players can say where Kabam did them dirty was cyber weekend deals. That's really about it. The requirements for TB are so low right now that having that level of difficulty but still allowing anyone who doesn't have R3 6*'s but 1 run through Act 6 will only lead to so many complaints about how hard the content is. We saw it with UC, we saw it with Cav and we'll still see it with the next level.

    What Kabam really needs to do is find a better why to qualify people for content they are suited to for EQ's so we can stop all this title nonsense.
    I hear “content qualification” and I think: what else is there?

    The team tried Summoner Level (and still uses it), but odometers have been stuck on L60 forever it seems.

    The team tried rarity gates and got blasted for it.

    The team tried a title system using a combo of story progression and rarity+rankup and that has gone over poorly.

    It’s too late now, but it would have been worth a try to be able to restart the Summoner Level in increments only after certain story progression points—say, you can’t get beyond L60 unless you 100% Acts 1-5, or you are stuck at max L70 until you 100% Act 6, and so on. Those subsequent Summoner levels should have been fairly consequential.

    I tend to think unlocking content should be tied to Story progression, but I’d even be willing to consider some form of locked content that requires special quest completion.

    As a side note, the perqs of the TB title are good, but not what I would call game-changing (apart from last year’s offers, which I agree were tone deaf). You get some already available cats, a couple more Cav crystals and a glory-shot of weekly 5% T5c and a monthly 10% T5c.

    Not bad, but it’s nothing worth having a conniption over (yet).

    Dr. Zola
    I'm at the point now that they should just open all content to everyone. If they can't do it, they can't do it. No matter what Kabam does to lock content so they don't get overconfident summoners, we always see the same results. Everyone assumes that now I have title "X", I can beat that type of content. We then see them on here complaining about how hard it is and that the content should be tuned down etc...

    I don't know what the true solution is. I won't ever pretend to know either. None of this will ever be perfect because there will always be players who think they deserve something someone else has just because. Open it all to everyone and let them try. Of course then Kabam will be blamed for content being a cash grab lol.
    The idea being that every player is now responsible for their own actions and choices. If they get a bad experience it is 100% their own fault.

    Except if you let people have that option and too many take it, pretty soon you don't have a game. It is easy to say let everyone do whatever they want, but people who believe this don't make games as a service. They make sandboxes. And if you *really* believe in the principle that players should be allowed to do whatever they want to and have the capability of doing, you are far more likely to make a *single player game* where you can better deliver that experience.

    This may seem too obvious to state, but games are made by game developers. And most games attract the kind of people who believe in the kind of game that game actually is. You don't join the MCOC team because you believe lootboxes are evil, or Marvel characters suck, or fighting games are stupid. And you probably don't join a games as a service dev team if you don't believe in experience curation.
    I fully don't don't believe us as players should have all content available to them. There are people that play this game that fully believe they CAN do everything regardless of what their progression level is. We've seen this several times with different pieces of content. For me, most famously, the summoner showdown. It was truly meant for people who couldn't participate in the actual tourney, the chance to experience what those who were competing were up against. Because that piece of content was literally available to everyone, the mindset was that it should be doable for everyone. You even get 4 extra champs to take down the defender than the competitors did and people still complained it was too hard and rewards weren't worth it etc..

    We saw it with the introduction of UC MEQ's. Someone who beat the Collector thought they could do UC right after when UC was meant for people who've done more than just 5.1-2. We are seeing it now with Cav difficulty and people who have progressed way too fast in this game and don't have sufficient rosters to cover the content. Complaints about health-pools too high or difficult nodes like buffed up and diss track.

    I feel Kabam needs a way to slow progression between UC and Cav. People really don't understand the importance of roster development and it's impact on this game. If TB difficulty is released, then those people who took up any old champ to R3 and haven't done diddly to improve their roster, they will be the first to complain about the difficulty because they have 7 R5's and 1 R3. And if there is a TB difficulty, it should be TB players and above only.
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    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,781 Guardian

    I feel Kabam needs a way to slow progression between UC and Cav. People really don't understand the importance of roster development and it's impact on this game. If TB difficulty is released, then those people who took up any old champ to R3 and haven't done diddly to improve their roster, they will be the first to complain about the difficulty because they have 7 R5's and 1 R3. And if there is a TB difficulty, it should be TB players and above only.

    I think unfortunately Kabam can't retroactively address that. The issue here is that 5.3, 5.4, and 6.1 were not built with the new "roster gate" philosophy of newer content that promotes wider rosters. But 6.2+ to a degree and Act 7 even more does have that aspect, which makes roster growth more important going from Cav to TB. I think this issue will require time for basically the game to move to the point where UC is really the first real progress marker, and TB and TB+ strengthen that trend, making the jump from UC to Cav less important overall. That's probably many years down the road. Until then, I suspect Act 7 itself will be the soft-gate to progress before TB+ becomes a thing, and TB EQ tier becomes a thing.

    Also, I think TB EQ is probably quite a bit away yet. There simply aren't enough TB players to justify the cost, and I think it will be harder to add TBEQ than Cav. Cav was kind of easy, in that they could jettison beginner difficulty and add Cav and keep the workload at least nominally similar. But it won't be as easy to delete Normal difficulty to make room for TB, and of course it seems impossible to delete heroic to make room for a hypothetical TB+ difficulty tier. The devs aren't going to be in a rush to tackle that problem, when they are still getting used to the much more rapid cadence of champion buffs and Cav difficulty map tweaks.
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    DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 21,193 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    I feel Kabam needs a way to slow progression between UC and Cav. People really don't understand the importance of roster development and it's impact on this game. If TB difficulty is released, then those people who took up any old champ to R3 and haven't done diddly to improve their roster, they will be the first to complain about the difficulty because they have 7 R5's and 1 R3. And if there is a TB difficulty, it should be TB players and above only.

    I think unfortunately Kabam can't retroactively address that. The issue here is that 5.3, 5.4, and 6.1 were not built with the new "roster gate" philosophy of newer content that promotes wider rosters. But 6.2+ to a degree and Act 7 even more does have that aspect, which makes roster growth more important going from Cav to TB. I think this issue will require time for basically the game to move to the point where UC is really the first real progress marker, and TB and TB+ strengthen that trend, making the jump from UC to Cav less important overall. That's probably many years down the road. Until then, I suspect Act 7 itself will be the soft-gate to progress before TB+ becomes a thing, and TB EQ tier becomes a thing.

    Also, I think TB EQ is probably quite a bit away yet. There simply aren't enough TB players to justify the cost, and I think it will be harder to add TBEQ than Cav. Cav was kind of easy, in that they could jettison beginner difficulty and add Cav and keep the workload at least nominally similar. But it won't be as easy to delete Normal difficulty to make room for TB, and of course it seems impossible to delete heroic to make room for a hypothetical TB+ difficulty tier. The devs aren't going to be in a rush to tackle that problem, when they are still getting used to the much more rapid cadence of champion buffs and Cav difficulty map tweaks.
    I completely agree. I think Cav difficulty came later than should of really. I am not even sure TB difficulty will ever be a thing. An idea i've been toying with in my head since there are many who have 100% of everything done and Cav difficulty doesn't present a challenge, is that those TB types need something between book 2 releases. So instead of creating a full blown MEQ's quest for TB, make something less undertaking like a mini EQ that gives some additional rewards like a boss rush type of quest. It won't have full blown rewards like a regular MEQ but just add-on rewards. Something that's hard enough for higher end TB's with wide rosters would find challenging. This gives them something to do aside from the MEQ's they are bored with.

    Or another way to add to that is adding in objectives like the Cav's ones but more creative. Maybe like 6-8 of them monthly to keep them busy.
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    TitoBandito187TitoBandito187 Posts: 2,072 ★★★★
    Here's my unpopular opinion but I'm gonna flip this on its head since others on this thread have established the previous argument already...

    Stay with me before you judge...

    In numerous threads, people state there is a shortage of something (gold was the big item for awhile, now it's about iso, t1a and T2A) and their response from top level players is usually , you're not budgeting right, you need to make better rankup decisions, etc. This is even though we know kabam has increased the resource requirement, but not added more ways to get those resources into the game in that time frame. Not to mention were not all on the same playing field as let's face it, RNG can be downright lopsided so those who have great RNG will be better set to tackle more (1* hulk anyone?)

    Hang with me here...

    And now, some of those same people who provide those responses to players in need are now saying they want more and harder difficulty because they've progressed more quickly than the majority of the community? But again, they have the have best rosters, blew through the content and are now waiting for something newer and harder because they sprinted to be the best and are bored as a result?

    I'd recommend taking a page from their own advice and slow down some. Pace yourself the same way others were told to manage their resources better (even though there is data to support how the shortages came to be and that some players have better RNG and some have more money to pump into their accounts and never experience issues that the normal player base does).

    I'm TB and don't mind the cav event anymore than I did UC when it was the top monthly EQ. Sure, it can be repetitive at times, but what content in this game isn't after it's lost its newly released appeal? I can guarantee more people prefer getting through CAV EQ as it is now for the rewards, while using minimal items (or itemless) than getting similar rewards for content that is so challenging that they have to use more items to get them or simply can't because their progression is slowed by not being able to stomp down nee content immediately. And that's the real issue, the best of the best aren't challenged and anything truky challenging to them is going to be a nightmare for just about everyone else.

    Cav eq is still the middle ground for both sides right now and I'm fine with it. Players with the best rosters (playing since beginning, have amazing RNG or deep pockets) and rush to be the best will never be satisfied, period. I don't need those first world MCOC problems to impact my progression by expanding the divide to the top players any more.

    I get that top players want more, but you're always wanting more because your progression is unhindered and you keep rushing to the top and are immediately bored again.
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    PintzzPintzz Posts: 297 ★★
    Personally have found all the “endgame geared” content is not even close to that. 7.1 was fun nowhere near a challenge at all. Though act 6 was a pain I found some of the challenge fun to try and work around. Minus 6.2.5
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    BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,254 ★★★★★

    I’m strongly against TB level difficulty monthly quests...

    It’s just a game, no need to “push” players to experience TB challenge every single month...

    One-time challenge like endgame boss rush every several months is sufficient

    Easy solution, kabam should introduce thronebreaker difficulty level every month for the thronebreakers, and GAMEOVERJames can give it a miss if he doesn’t want to be pushed every month.
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    jdrum663jdrum663 Posts: 551 ★★
    I think they should fix the game before doing anything whatsoever. Just my humble opinion though.
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    DNA3000 said:

    I feel Kabam needs a way to slow progression between UC and Cav. People really don't understand the importance of roster development and it's impact on this game. If TB difficulty is released, then those people who took up any old champ to R3 and haven't done diddly to improve their roster, they will be the first to complain about the difficulty because they have 7 R5's and 1 R3. And if there is a TB difficulty, it should be TB players and above only.

    I think unfortunately Kabam can't retroactively address that. The issue here is that 5.3, 5.4, and 6.1 were not built with the new "roster gate" philosophy of newer content that promotes wider rosters. But 6.2+ to a degree and Act 7 even more does have that aspect, which makes roster growth more important going from Cav to TB. I think this issue will require time for basically the game to move to the point where UC is really the first real progress marker, and TB and TB+ strengthen that trend, making the jump from UC to Cav less important overall. That's probably many years down the road. Until then, I suspect Act 7 itself will be the soft-gate to progress before TB+ becomes a thing, and TB EQ tier becomes a thing.

    Also, I think TB EQ is probably quite a bit away yet. There simply aren't enough TB players to justify the cost, and I think it will be harder to add TBEQ than Cav. Cav was kind of easy, in that they could jettison beginner difficulty and add Cav and keep the workload at least nominally similar. But it won't be as easy to delete Normal difficulty to make room for TB, and of course it seems impossible to delete heroic to make room for a hypothetical TB+ difficulty tier. The devs aren't going to be in a rush to tackle that problem, when they are still getting used to the much more rapid cadence of champion buffs and Cav difficulty map tweaks.
    Unfortunately now the 5* gate is barely an obstacle to cavalier now. To complete 6.1 you only need a counter to Crossbones, so a decent poison immune of which there are a hell of a lot. There’s a pretty easy path across all 6 quests that don’t really need anything specific at all. If you’re active you can probably be knocking on the gates of Act 6 inside a couple of months and you’re likely going to have 15-20 5*, of which one will likely be poison immune.

    There’s also a huge difference between the cavaliers who completed the content pre and post nerf other than just the extra 6 months roster development - their minds are a little bit more inured to harder content which makes running into the proverbial brick wall a little bit easier. I usually considered it a challenge - certain pieces of content did still rouse my ire but a lot of people seem to find it an offence.
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    LilMaddogHTLilMaddogHT Posts: 1,175 ★★★★
    I proposed this idea back when Cavalier difficulty was introduced and Kabam Miike liked this idea so much with an immediate response (literally - like within a 30 seconds)... :D


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    ahock101ahock101 Posts: 118
    I disagree with this. There is plenty of content for end game players, the problem is that most endgame players complete the content too quickly. Cavalier difficulty just came out, we don't need another difficulty on top of that. I do think the rewards should be buffed a little for cavalier. Adding another difficulty would just add to what is already a grind. And if you do add throne breaker difficulty what's to stop kabam saying you have to be throne breaker to enter? This would upset too many summoners.
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    The_Sentry06The_Sentry06 Posts: 7,781 ★★★★★
    ahock101 said:

    I disagree with this. There is plenty of content for end game players, the problem is that most endgame players complete the content too quickly. Cavalier difficulty just came out, we don't need another difficulty on top of that. I do think the rewards should be buffed a little for cavalier. Adding another difficulty would just add to what is already a grind. And if you do add throne breaker difficulty what's to stop kabam saying you have to be throne breaker to enter? This would upset too many summoners.

    1)Act 6 has been nerfed and act 7 while challenging isn't anywhere close to the level of difficulty that these people want. That only leaves us with Abyss which is more farming resources and there is no point in doing abyss again and again for no rewards.

    2)The point of thronebreaker difficulty is that it should only be for thronebreaker summoners.
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