So what’s coming up? Anything exciting?

135

Comments

  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 4,429 ★★★★★
    Nah01 said:

    These days sometimes I think about logging in, then realized I have nothing to do, then I went to this forum, and youtube, then realized nothing to see, all I could see is AW which is repetitive and boring as hell, rank up and crystal opening, Abyss and Grandmaster fights lol lol.

    Act 7 was like a nightmare which destroyed this game for me.

    BuT HaVe YoU trIEd UsInG 3* in AbySs

    /s
  • TheTalentsTheTalents Posts: 1,905 ★★★★★
    I don't even like playing the 4 star challenge with Cavalier difficulty so I refuse to play any game mode with 3 stars lol. Kabam just needs to put out more content whether its hard or not but preferably not easy.
  • Wicket329Wicket329 Posts: 531 ★★★

    I don't even like playing the 4 star challenge with Cavalier difficulty so I refuse to play any game mode with 3 stars lol. Kabam just needs to put out more content whether its hard or not but preferably not easy.

    I actually kinda dig the 4* challenges. I don’t love ranking up 4* champs (I graduated from 4* to 5* back when OG hulk was a top champ, so I didn’t exactly have the meta 4*s available), but the cav EQ nodes make for some fun challenges in there.

    But yes, something new. I’m still pitching that seasonal EQ, the more I talk about it on here the better of an idea I think it is.
  • abn86abn86 Posts: 87
    Haji_Saab said:

    People think this game is Street Fighter where this game is actually Diablo. That has been the main issue plaguing us. Kabam, who developed the game, understood this (obviously) but then caved in to the Street Fighter crowd.

    Act 3 Thanos tested our 3* champs, Act 4 was difficult for the rosters at that time (4* 3/30 old champs), Act 5 was difficult, Act 6 was difficult ... Act 7 is absurdly easy for the rosters of its time.

    It's not just Diablo and it's not just Street Fighter because it's also part Pokemon (gotta catch 'em all) - the collection aspect. To me, you're balancing three different types of games, and as such, you get competing ideas on what makes it best. Your opinion is still an opinion, though. I very much enjoyed rocking Thanos back in the day with 3* Cap. And this was back when 4* weren't accessible like that so everyone had to bring out their big guns - which always involved Gamora, for some reason.

    I love the idea of Act 6, pre-nerf, but I hated it because we all have personal RNG and mine is the worst. Or was the worst, anyway. I found a way to get better champs, I just have to pay the featured markup. Act 6 was too niche, but in perspective, it does make sense. Act 6 was the culmination of Book 1. Anytime you ever meet the Big Bad you usually got a helluva fight on your hands. You needed to think about counters constantly. A game inside a game inside the game.

    My counter is that Act 7 is the beginning. Everyone saying 7.1 is too easy is right. 7.1 is the first chapter of the new book. You instinctively want to compare it with Act 6 because it immediately preceded 7, but it's more akin to Act 1. I think the foundation they set for Act 7 does allow it to get incredibly more difficult. Honestly, imo the difficult level in 7.1 is right, but the paths are short. That's what I was the most taken with. It feels like an EQ with a handful of fights and then the boss. I guess I got used to fighting for what feels like forever before I can FINALLY get to the boss. I love that it's not like some super long path, but I wouldn't mind dropping the energy/step and adding more fights.

  • TRONG94TRONG94 Posts: 705 ★★★
    Monk1 said:

    IKON said:

    One persons fun is another persons boring. I gravitate to this game because of the difficulty.

    What do you define as "difficult"?
    Monk1 said:

    I don’t understand how anyone found 7.1 fun...

    It was stupid. Too easy, only a few nodes that even required thought, otherwise you could just blast through it. The only slight restriction was energy refills - this was also not an issue as the act 6 compensation provided 20 of them that had to be used straight away.

    What aspect of act6 did you find fun?
    I liked the gated paths - makes you use different champs and think about your team and counters.

    I liked the champion fight - except no retreat node - that was too much and made a hard/skill fight a bit of a unit grab.

    6.4 in general was fun - the GM is still a great fight.

    Parts of 6.3 were stupid - mysterio on poison node springs to mind and the mysterio boss were both stupid - would be easier now with some of newer champs

    If you enjoy the game then learning new skills, trying new nodes and slowly working through story content as your roster grows is what it’s meant to be like.

    7.1.. 2 days.. straight through, no thinking just fight after fight prob less than 10 revives on whole thing.
    So fun means 1000 revives?
  • Monk1Monk1 Posts: 536 ★★★
    TRONG94 said:

    Monk1 said:

    IKON said:

    One persons fun is another persons boring. I gravitate to this game because of the difficulty.

    What do you define as "difficult"?
    Monk1 said:

    I don’t understand how anyone found 7.1 fun...

    It was stupid. Too easy, only a few nodes that even required thought, otherwise you could just blast through it. The only slight restriction was energy refills - this was also not an issue as the act 6 compensation provided 20 of them that had to be used straight away.

    What aspect of act6 did you find fun?
    I liked the gated paths - makes you use different champs and think about your team and counters.

    I liked the champion fight - except no retreat node - that was too much and made a hard/skill fight a bit of a unit grab.

    6.4 in general was fun - the GM is still a great fight.

    Parts of 6.3 were stupid - mysterio on poison node springs to mind and the mysterio boss were both stupid - would be easier now with some of newer champs

    If you enjoy the game then learning new skills, trying new nodes and slowly working through story content as your roster grows is what it’s meant to be like.

    7.1.. 2 days.. straight through, no thinking just fight after fight prob less than 10 revives on whole thing.
    So fun means 1000 revives?
    Where did it say a 1000 revives. I did not even use half that amount 100% abyss and I counted them.

    Revives and pots come free in game so have no issue using them and also not issue using them
    If I mess up in fight. In act 6 u mess u you get punished and die - I’m ok with this. Play perfect fight you don’t die.

    I’m now sat watching the revives and pots expire every few days, unless I remember to sell them in time
  • Wicket329Wicket329 Posts: 531 ★★★
    @abn86 your point about the length of the quest is an interesting one. I remember doing the Flare path in 7.1 and it was super fun but I just had to do a fight with each of my champs and then one champ had to go twice. The downside of the node never kicked in because the path was just over too quickly. Never had to play around it at all, so it wasn’t really much of a challenge.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 4,429 ★★★★★
    abn86 said:

    Haji_Saab said:

    People think this game is Street Fighter where this game is actually Diablo. That has been the main issue plaguing us. Kabam, who developed the game, understood this (obviously) but then caved in to the Street Fighter crowd.

    Act 3 Thanos tested our 3* champs, Act 4 was difficult for the rosters at that time (4* 3/30 old champs), Act 5 was difficult, Act 6 was difficult ... Act 7 is absurdly easy for the rosters of its time.

    It's not just Diablo and it's not just Street Fighter because it's also part Pokemon (gotta catch 'em all) - the collection aspect. To me, you're balancing three different types of games, and as such, you get competing ideas on what makes it best. Your opinion is still an opinion, though. I very much enjoyed rocking Thanos back in the day with 3* Cap. And this was back when 4* weren't accessible like that so everyone had to bring out their big guns - which always involved Gamora, for some reason.

    I love the idea of Act 6, pre-nerf, but I hated it because we all have personal RNG and mine is the worst. Or was the worst, anyway. I found a way to get better champs, I just have to pay the featured markup. Act 6 was too niche, but in perspective, it does make sense. Act 6 was the culmination of Book 1. Anytime you ever meet the Big Bad you usually got a helluva fight on your hands. You needed to think about counters constantly. A game inside a game inside the game.

    My counter is that Act 7 is the beginning. Everyone saying 7.1 is too easy is right. 7.1 is the first chapter of the new book. You instinctively want to compare it with Act 6 because it immediately preceded 7, but it's more akin to Act 1. I think the foundation they set for Act 7 does allow it to get incredibly more difficult. Honestly, imo the difficult level in 7.1 is right, but the paths are short. That's what I was the most taken with. It feels like an EQ with a handful of fights and then the boss. I guess I got used to fighting for what feels like forever before I can FINALLY get to the boss. I love that it's not like some super long path, but I wouldn't mind dropping the energy/step and adding more fights.

    Ok I get your point. But how long do we need to wait until act 7 gets hard? 7.2 won’t be out for a month or so, 7.3 won’t be here for half a year 7.4 maybe towards the end of the year. Is the answer to when are we getting hard content really just wait a year?

    People are bored now, people want more challenging content now. And if people have to wait 1/6th of the games life so far for it to be challenging something is wrong.
  • Wicket329Wicket329 Posts: 531 ★★★
    TRONG94 said:

    Monk1 said:

    IKON said:

    One persons fun is another persons boring. I gravitate to this game because of the difficulty.

    What do you define as "difficult"?
    Monk1 said:

    I don’t understand how anyone found 7.1 fun...

    It was stupid. Too easy, only a few nodes that even required thought, otherwise you could just blast through it. The only slight restriction was energy refills - this was also not an issue as the act 6 compensation provided 20 of them that had to be used straight away.

    What aspect of act6 did you find fun?
    I liked the gated paths - makes you use different champs and think about your team and counters.

    I liked the champion fight - except no retreat node - that was too much and made a hard/skill fight a bit of a unit grab.

    6.4 in general was fun - the GM is still a great fight.

    Parts of 6.3 were stupid - mysterio on poison node springs to mind and the mysterio boss were both stupid - would be easier now with some of newer champs

    If you enjoy the game then learning new skills, trying new nodes and slowly working through story content as your roster grows is what it’s meant to be like.

    7.1.. 2 days.. straight through, no thinking just fight after fight prob less than 10 revives on whole thing.
    So fun means 1000 revives?
    It’s fun when I have to stop and think and strategize and then I get to see that strategy pay off. A personal highlight for me in this game was figuring out to backdraft intercept during the final phase of the Grandmaster fight when you need to intercept rapidly to take away his unstoppable.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 4,429 ★★★★★
    Wicket329 said:

    TRONG94 said:

    Monk1 said:

    IKON said:

    One persons fun is another persons boring. I gravitate to this game because of the difficulty.

    What do you define as "difficult"?
    Monk1 said:

    I don’t understand how anyone found 7.1 fun...

    It was stupid. Too easy, only a few nodes that even required thought, otherwise you could just blast through it. The only slight restriction was energy refills - this was also not an issue as the act 6 compensation provided 20 of them that had to be used straight away.

    What aspect of act6 did you find fun?
    I liked the gated paths - makes you use different champs and think about your team and counters.

    I liked the champion fight - except no retreat node - that was too much and made a hard/skill fight a bit of a unit grab.

    6.4 in general was fun - the GM is still a great fight.

    Parts of 6.3 were stupid - mysterio on poison node springs to mind and the mysterio boss were both stupid - would be easier now with some of newer champs

    If you enjoy the game then learning new skills, trying new nodes and slowly working through story content as your roster grows is what it’s meant to be like.

    7.1.. 2 days.. straight through, no thinking just fight after fight prob less than 10 revives on whole thing.
    So fun means 1000 revives?
    It’s fun when I have to stop and think and strategize and then I get to see that strategy pay off. A personal highlight for me in this game was figuring out to backdraft intercept during the final phase of the Grandmaster fight when you need to intercept rapidly to take away his unstoppable.
    Exactly, 6.4 made you strategise and think. The extend of strategy in act 7 is pretty much see which champions of a class you have out of war or Aq.
  • Nah01Nah01 Posts: 238 ★★
    I can see that 7.2 will be another disappointment, not as huge as 7.1 but can't reach the level I want it to be so 2021 will be lost in term of story quest for me.
  • richardrod33richardrod33 Posts: 8
    I've always wondered why they don't utilize the summoner journey tab to include some challenges in the permanent content. Maybe some extra rewards for completing labyrinth with a team of 4 stars or defeating the 6.2.6 champion with a Kamala Kahn or something like that. They have the tool in the game now but its never really utilized besides the 4 stars in cav quest. That would give players some incentive to replay the content already in game and keep them occupied.
  • Wicket329Wicket329 Posts: 531 ★★★

    I've always wondered why they don't utilize the summoner journey tab to include some challenges in the permanent content. Maybe some extra rewards for completing labyrinth with a team of 4 stars or defeating the 6.2.6 champion with a Kamala Kahn or something like that. They have the tool in the game now but its never really utilized besides the 4 stars in cav quest. That would give players some incentive to replay the content already in game and keep them occupied.

    I think this recent incursions challenge is aimed at that kind of idea. Unfortunately Kabam have kinda shot themselves in the foot with low-star challenges in end-game content by putting in the star restrictions.
  • OGAvengerOGAvenger Posts: 557 ★★★
    My biggest issue with Act 6 pre nerf was the attack values. Playing around the difficult nodes and insane block damage was brutal and just wasn’t fun. You could play a fight near perfect and lose most if not all of your health. The first beta for 7.1 was headed in the exact same direction. If they kept it as it was then you’d die from 4 parries in 7.2.

    It’s time to make the node combinations TOUGH again but keep lower attack values. It allows room for a mistake here and there.

    7.1 was definitely too easy, but I think it helped get them going in a good direction. The 7.2 beta was certainly harder than 7.1 but still kept the fun aspect. I’m excited for its release
  • TheTalentsTheTalents Posts: 1,905 ★★★★★
    OGAvenger said:

    My biggest issue with Act 6 pre nerf was the attack values. Playing around the difficult nodes and insane block damage was brutal and just wasn’t fun. You could play a fight near perfect and lose most if not all of your health. The first beta for 7.1 was headed in the exact same direction. If they kept it as it was then you’d die from 4 parries in 7.2.

    It’s time to make the node combinations TOUGH again but keep lower attack values. It allows room for a mistake here and there.

    7.1 was definitely too easy, but I think it helped get them going in a good direction. The 7.2 beta was certainly harder than 7.1 but still kept the fun aspect. I’m excited for its release

    Excellent post, I think the niche content with lower attacks work because there's so many more useful champions compared to the time act 6 was launched. A lot is riding on 7.2 but I think more content period is necessary.
  • abn86abn86 Posts: 87
    @Wicket329 just did a quick look at the two just to see if my inclination was on the right track. So opened 7.1.2 and counted out 6 on Static Blast path before Rhino boss. 6.4.5 vivified I counted out 9 before Hydra Adaptoid. 6.4.4 counted out 9 also on Dont Go Gentle. It's only 3 but I think it is definitely noticeable.



    Ok I get your point. But how long do we need to wait until act 7 gets hard? 7.2 won’t be out for a month or so, 7.3 won’t be here for half a year 7.4 maybe towards the end of the year. Is the answer to when are we getting hard content really just wait a year?

    People are bored now, people want more challenging content now. And if people have to wait 1/6th of the games life so far for it to be challenging something is wrong.


    No, I do feel you. I was really only speaking for the "act 7 too easy" part of it. I don't know when the difficulty will ramp up or if they will ever see story content as endgame content again (thinking about their dev diaries and why they nerfed act 6).

    I think they need to redefine endgame, because it sounds better than what it is - end of game. Being an end of game player means that you have nothing left to do. I like playing Assassins Creed, but once you beat the story in any open world game, you just kind of run around looking for side missions and doing full completion. But the "game" is over.

    I don't know what the answer is, but I think the challenges for endgame players do need not be fixed content. I understand entirely the need to grow into something and eventually there will be an abyss replacement, but I don't know that I agree that it needs to be story content. I say that because unlike in video games, I can't change the difficulty level in story content.

    I think some people could benefit from the Hard/Insane/Crazy difficulty choices video games provide our varying skill levels. To me, story mode is 'Normal' mode and always has been. I want to challenge myself, but I also enjoy the story aspect. To me, I think the idea of endgame content to grow into should be a floating target (that floats around much more often, like Wicket's seasonal pain idea).

    The concept of incursions is badass. Why not create a version that scales specifically for solo players? You can do a live leaderboard and have some prizes that rotate out "seasonally". Could they do the same thing with the concept of The Maze? I don't know, I haven't given it much thought, but I think once you reach endgame, the game should evolve. I think that's where you start getting into how you rank against others. I just think that's the natural evolution after you've 'graduated' to endgame player without forcing those players to look for another game.

    Alternatively, I guess they could create a 'variant' difficulty for story.
  • doctorbdoctorb Posts: 1,124 ★★★

    doctorb said:

    Wicket329 said:

    doctorb said:

    Wicket329 said:

    Having 100% Act 6 pre-nerf, I get why it was done. It was a slog, and it was brutally difficult after Act 5. It just didn’t follow the linear progression of the game.

    The problem, however, was that a not insignificant number of people rose to meet that challenge, and they came to expect that level of difficulty from future content. When Act 6 was tuned down, again as it should have been, the issue is that there was no content left in the game that provided that kind of difficulty.

    So now you’ve got this group of players who developed the skills and roster to take down the hardest content in the game at that time, but all of the content released since then has been substantially easier. That’s not fun.

    Story quests, especially if we continue to gate title progression behind them, should not be the summit of this game. But there needs to be some kind of aspirational content for people after they’ve completed the story. Abyss is an example of that, but realistically it’s just a unit pit. There are very few fights in there that can roadblock you if you’ve farmed/bought enough units (this is good, roadblocks in something like Abyss would be bad!). But there should be shorter quests with real, genuine challenges.

    The Maze is a community favorite that gets brought up. I personally enjoyed the Mulaney challenge as well. I also think that difficult quests that give you an item cap would be something worth considering.

    Something I’d love to see would be a kind of Seasonal Event Quest. In the game for three months, extremely difficult content. Designed to take a very long time to complete/explore, and with rewards like 6* AG crystals and sig stones.

    I also liked the idea from this month’s side quest being a gauntlet that could scale up way higher. That format could also lend itself to aspirational content. Anyway, I’ve rambled enough. Thanks for coming to my TED talk, the three of you who read the whole thing.

    Like u said, if ppl farmed or bought enough units then nothing would be challenging anymore. Kabam could release a challenge where enemies have 1 trillion health points and it won't matter cause some ppl would just keep buying units till they finished it. At some point, the players need to take it upon themselves to create the challenge, like maybe try using heroes one star done from what ur using. Maybe try using 3* or 4*. Other than something like that then there's not much kabam can do. Cause like I said, regardless of how challenging it is, if u have deep pockets then ull b able to finish it.
    Your argument essentially states “there will always be people who will pay-to-win through any difficulty of content, so we shouldn’t make content difficult at all.” If I am wrong on that interpretation, please feel free to correct me.

    I don’t agree with your conclusion. Kabam could easily implement item limitations within a quest if they wanted to create true challenge content. They typically don’t because they want to sell units and this is first and foremost a business, which I get. From a financial incentives standpoint, I would argue that setting an item limit could cause additional item usage because people may get roadblocked and have to start again rather than just infinitely chipping away at it, but I’m sure Kabam’s got finance people who know far more about it than I.

    Or, if people want to spend all those units on potions that’s okay! They can do that! But the idea is that this is lengthy content that I’m proposing. It’s not meant to be done in a Legends Run format, so those of us who are looking for a challenge will have one. This isn’t supposed to be impossible content, it’s supposed to be difficult. There is a difference.

    But that’s not the point here. It’s not that we *can* unitman our way through, it’s that there’s literally no reason to do so. I 100% 7.1 pretty close to itemless, and I know a lot of others who did that too with less developed rosters. I’m not saying content should be designed to siphon off potions and revives, but it should make a player stop and think before entering a quest “am I able to do this fight with my current ability and roster” rather than “there is literally no chance that anything in this quest challenges my ability and roster.”

    And, I’m sorry, but the “use lower ranked champions” suggestion is not a good one. It’s very common, but the entire point of this game is to collect and rank up champions so you can use them, not so they can collect dust.
    You did miss my point. I'm not saying do not come out with more difficult challenges but the truth is what I said, that no matter how difficult the content, if u have deep enough pockets then it will never be difficult enough.

    I think kabam has enough to deal with every month to not have to hear more complaints about how easy it is. Have u seen all the issues in the bug tab??? Not to mention having to come up with new contents and new ideas every month as well as trying to buff old heroes just right. I know it's a business but u have to feel bad for them with more unnecessary complaints.

    I remember a time when less skilled players kept complaining how hard things were and the more skilled players were telling them to stop complaining and just get good. And now it seems like the tables r turned.

    As for u, if ur not a deep pocket person but just highly skilled, then congrats to you. My advice is either challenge urself by playing with weaker heroes (like I posted b4) or maybe take a break from this game and find one more suited to ur skill levels. Might I suggest chess 😊

    And I'm not mocking u with the chess suggestion. I actually enjoy playing it as well.

    As for kabam, thank you for coming out with new contents every month and keeping me entertained. Please keep up the good and difficult work.
    With your “get good point”, those are two very different situations and you’re acting like it’s comparable.

    If a player cannot do permanent content, they can go away, practice and get better. Get better champions, learn to intercept, learn to use better champions etc. That’s why people say “get better, or practice or whatever”. Your issue if you can’t do something is solvable in the future.

    But if permanent content is too easy, you cannot come back and do it. You have no challenge presented, you can’t use your 6* rank 3 you ranked up because you enjoy them because they kill the content in two specials. I have a rank 3 Professor X who does some act 7 content as quickly as Cav EQ. It’s not fun to use him there and I ranked him up because he’s fun.

    Exaggerating to make a point: Imagine if all content to you was as easy as uncollected EQ, and you wanted to use your champions there but they’re vastly overpowered. They do the content in 30-40 hits and the fights are over. You can’t use your favourite champions, so you ask kabam for some harder content. And people who aren’t even on that content come and say to you oh why don’t you try and use 4*, or lower ranked champions for it. Nope, you wanted to use your new ranked up champions there. People say use weaker champions, what if I don’t enjoy playing them?

    I don’t even have a 5* professor X, and if I did why should I rank him up to use a worse version?

    I’ve done act 6, 7.1, abyss, everything 100%. The only places in the game that prof X has a challenge is act 6 and abyss, and that’s done. Why would I do it again, I want to earn rewards by being challenged. And the only content coming out is act 7.2 which by all accounts seems to be slightly harder 7.1, so he won’t be challenged there.

    Why should the response to asking for harder content be redo old content, for no rewards, with worse champions and lower stars. That’s ridiculous and everyone knows it.

    Especially when the alternative is to just release harder content, and anyone who can’t do it right away can gosh darn well deal with it. They can go away and learn how to get round it. This game is meant to be a contest, a challenge. Not top rewards for easy fights. You can get 75% of a t5cc from 7.1 and select 25% of that. That is crazy to me, when you had to slog through the difficulty of act 6 before.

    Some of the community jump to complain within the first hour of something going live just because their top champion didn’t do it. Go away, learn and come back. That’s how this game stays interesting
    Based on ur argument, u don't enjoy using a hero, u enjoy using a 6*, r3 version of the hero. Keep in mind, I am not telling you who you can or cannot use. Its ur roster, u can use whoever u want.
    You say those who complain it's too hard can rectify the situation by practicing, getting better and stronger heroes, and so on.
    Well, u can rectify ur situation as well by trying to complete these challenges with weaker heroes. U just choose not to. Right now, they have 3* versions of every hero except maybe the exclusive ones.
  • Wicket329Wicket329 Posts: 531 ★★★
    doctorb said:

    doctorb said:

    Wicket329 said:

    doctorb said:

    Wicket329 said:

    Having 100% Act 6 pre-nerf, I get why it was done. It was a slog, and it was brutally difficult after Act 5. It just didn’t follow the linear progression of the game.

    The problem, however, was that a not insignificant number of people rose to meet that challenge, and they came to expect that level of difficulty from future content. When Act 6 was tuned down, again as it should have been, the issue is that there was no content left in the game that provided that kind of difficulty.

    So now you’ve got this group of players who developed the skills and roster to take down the hardest content in the game at that time, but all of the content released since then has been substantially easier. That’s not fun.

    Story quests, especially if we continue to gate title progression behind them, should not be the summit of this game. But there needs to be some kind of aspirational content for people after they’ve completed the story. Abyss is an example of that, but realistically it’s just a unit pit. There are very few fights in there that can roadblock you if you’ve farmed/bought enough units (this is good, roadblocks in something like Abyss would be bad!). But there should be shorter quests with real, genuine challenges.

    The Maze is a community favorite that gets brought up. I personally enjoyed the Mulaney challenge as well. I also think that difficult quests that give you an item cap would be something worth considering.

    Something I’d love to see would be a kind of Seasonal Event Quest. In the game for three months, extremely difficult content. Designed to take a very long time to complete/explore, and with rewards like 6* AG crystals and sig stones.

    I also liked the idea from this month’s side quest being a gauntlet that could scale up way higher. That format could also lend itself to aspirational content. Anyway, I’ve rambled enough. Thanks for coming to my TED talk, the three of you who read the whole thing.

    Like u said, if ppl farmed or bought enough units then nothing would be challenging anymore. Kabam could release a challenge where enemies have 1 trillion health points and it won't matter cause some ppl would just keep buying units till they finished it. At some point, the players need to take it upon themselves to create the challenge, like maybe try using heroes one star done from what ur using. Maybe try using 3* or 4*. Other than something like that then there's not much kabam can do. Cause like I said, regardless of how challenging it is, if u have deep pockets then ull b able to finish it.
    Your argument essentially states “there will always be people who will pay-to-win through any difficulty of content, so we shouldn’t make content difficult at all.” If I am wrong on that interpretation, please feel free to correct me.

    I don’t agree with your conclusion. Kabam could easily implement item limitations within a quest if they wanted to create true challenge content. They typically don’t because they want to sell units and this is first and foremost a business, which I get. From a financial incentives standpoint, I would argue that setting an item limit could cause additional item usage because people may get roadblocked and have to start again rather than just infinitely chipping away at it, but I’m sure Kabam’s got finance people who know far more about it than I.

    Or, if people want to spend all those units on potions that’s okay! They can do that! But the idea is that this is lengthy content that I’m proposing. It’s not meant to be done in a Legends Run format, so those of us who are looking for a challenge will have one. This isn’t supposed to be impossible content, it’s supposed to be difficult. There is a difference.

    But that’s not the point here. It’s not that we *can* unitman our way through, it’s that there’s literally no reason to do so. I 100% 7.1 pretty close to itemless, and I know a lot of others who did that too with less developed rosters. I’m not saying content should be designed to siphon off potions and revives, but it should make a player stop and think before entering a quest “am I able to do this fight with my current ability and roster” rather than “there is literally no chance that anything in this quest challenges my ability and roster.”

    And, I’m sorry, but the “use lower ranked champions” suggestion is not a good one. It’s very common, but the entire point of this game is to collect and rank up champions so you can use them, not so they can collect dust.
    You did miss my point. I'm not saying do not come out with more difficult challenges but the truth is what I said, that no matter how difficult the content, if u have deep enough pockets then it will never be difficult enough.

    I think kabam has enough to deal with every month to not have to hear more complaints about how easy it is. Have u seen all the issues in the bug tab??? Not to mention having to come up with new contents and new ideas every month as well as trying to buff old heroes just right. I know it's a business but u have to feel bad for them with more unnecessary complaints.

    I remember a time when less skilled players kept complaining how hard things were and the more skilled players were telling them to stop complaining and just get good. And now it seems like the tables r turned.

    As for u, if ur not a deep pocket person but just highly skilled, then congrats to you. My advice is either challenge urself by playing with weaker heroes (like I posted b4) or maybe take a break from this game and find one more suited to ur skill levels. Might I suggest chess 😊

    And I'm not mocking u with the chess suggestion. I actually enjoy playing it as well.

    As for kabam, thank you for coming out with new contents every month and keeping me entertained. Please keep up the good and difficult work.
    With your “get good point”, those are two very different situations and you’re acting like it’s comparable.

    If a player cannot do permanent content, they can go away, practice and get better. Get better champions, learn to intercept, learn to use better champions etc. That’s why people say “get better, or practice or whatever”. Your issue if you can’t do something is solvable in the future.

    But if permanent content is too easy, you cannot come back and do it. You have no challenge presented, you can’t use your 6* rank 3 you ranked up because you enjoy them because they kill the content in two specials. I have a rank 3 Professor X who does some act 7 content as quickly as Cav EQ. It’s not fun to use him there and I ranked him up because he’s fun.

    Exaggerating to make a point: Imagine if all content to you was as easy as uncollected EQ, and you wanted to use your champions there but they’re vastly overpowered. They do the content in 30-40 hits and the fights are over. You can’t use your favourite champions, so you ask kabam for some harder content. And people who aren’t even on that content come and say to you oh why don’t you try and use 4*, or lower ranked champions for it. Nope, you wanted to use your new ranked up champions there. People say use weaker champions, what if I don’t enjoy playing them?

    I don’t even have a 5* professor X, and if I did why should I rank him up to use a worse version?

    I’ve done act 6, 7.1, abyss, everything 100%. The only places in the game that prof X has a challenge is act 6 and abyss, and that’s done. Why would I do it again, I want to earn rewards by being challenged. And the only content coming out is act 7.2 which by all accounts seems to be slightly harder 7.1, so he won’t be challenged there.

    Why should the response to asking for harder content be redo old content, for no rewards, with worse champions and lower stars. That’s ridiculous and everyone knows it.

    Especially when the alternative is to just release harder content, and anyone who can’t do it right away can gosh darn well deal with it. They can go away and learn how to get round it. This game is meant to be a contest, a challenge. Not top rewards for easy fights. You can get 75% of a t5cc from 7.1 and select 25% of that. That is crazy to me, when you had to slog through the difficulty of act 6 before.

    Some of the community jump to complain within the first hour of something going live just because their top champion didn’t do it. Go away, learn and come back. That’s how this game stays interesting
    Based on ur argument, u don't enjoy using a hero, u enjoy using a 6*, r3 version of the hero. Keep in mind, I am not telling you who you can or cannot use. Its ur roster, u can use whoever u want.
    You say those who complain it's too hard can rectify the situation by practicing, getting better and stronger heroes, and so on.
    Well, u can rectify ur situation as well by trying to complete these challenges with weaker heroes. U just choose not to. Right now, they have 3* versions of every hero except maybe the exclusive ones.
    You literally can’t bring lower star champions into Act 6/7 content. The game doesn’t allow it. You’re talking about bringing low star level champions into EQ only because that’s the only content where we can bring them. That’s already a thing that gets done occasionally with the 4* challenges we get from time to time. It’s a fun novelty once every couple months and that’s it. You are not making a compelling case.
  • TheTalentsTheTalents Posts: 1,905 ★★★★★
    Wicket329 said:

    doctorb said:

    doctorb said:

    Wicket329 said:

    doctorb said:

    Wicket329 said:

    Having 100% Act 6 pre-nerf, I get why it was done. It was a slog, and it was brutally difficult after Act 5. It just didn’t follow the linear progression of the game.

    The problem, however, was that a not insignificant number of people rose to meet that challenge, and they came to expect that level of difficulty from future content. When Act 6 was tuned down, again as it should have been, the issue is that there was no content left in the game that provided that kind of difficulty.

    So now you’ve got this group of players who developed the skills and roster to take down the hardest content in the game at that time, but all of the content released since then has been substantially easier. That’s not fun.

    Story quests, especially if we continue to gate title progression behind them, should not be the summit of this game. But there needs to be some kind of aspirational content for people after they’ve completed the story. Abyss is an example of that, but realistically it’s just a unit pit. There are very few fights in there that can roadblock you if you’ve farmed/bought enough units (this is good, roadblocks in something like Abyss would be bad!). But there should be shorter quests with real, genuine challenges.

    The Maze is a community favorite that gets brought up. I personally enjoyed the Mulaney challenge as well. I also think that difficult quests that give you an item cap would be something worth considering.

    Something I’d love to see would be a kind of Seasonal Event Quest. In the game for three months, extremely difficult content. Designed to take a very long time to complete/explore, and with rewards like 6* AG crystals and sig stones.

    I also liked the idea from this month’s side quest being a gauntlet that could scale up way higher. That format could also lend itself to aspirational content. Anyway, I’ve rambled enough. Thanks for coming to my TED talk, the three of you who read the whole thing.

    Like u said, if ppl farmed or bought enough units then nothing would be challenging anymore. Kabam could release a challenge where enemies have 1 trillion health points and it won't matter cause some ppl would just keep buying units till they finished it. At some point, the players need to take it upon themselves to create the challenge, like maybe try using heroes one star done from what ur using. Maybe try using 3* or 4*. Other than something like that then there's not much kabam can do. Cause like I said, regardless of how challenging it is, if u have deep pockets then ull b able to finish it.
    Your argument essentially states “there will always be people who will pay-to-win through any difficulty of content, so we shouldn’t make content difficult at all.” If I am wrong on that interpretation, please feel free to correct me.

    I don’t agree with your conclusion. Kabam could easily implement item limitations within a quest if they wanted to create true challenge content. They typically don’t because they want to sell units and this is first and foremost a business, which I get. From a financial incentives standpoint, I would argue that setting an item limit could cause additional item usage because people may get roadblocked and have to start again rather than just infinitely chipping away at it, but I’m sure Kabam’s got finance people who know far more about it than I.

    Or, if people want to spend all those units on potions that’s okay! They can do that! But the idea is that this is lengthy content that I’m proposing. It’s not meant to be done in a Legends Run format, so those of us who are looking for a challenge will have one. This isn’t supposed to be impossible content, it’s supposed to be difficult. There is a difference.

    But that’s not the point here. It’s not that we *can* unitman our way through, it’s that there’s literally no reason to do so. I 100% 7.1 pretty close to itemless, and I know a lot of others who did that too with less developed rosters. I’m not saying content should be designed to siphon off potions and revives, but it should make a player stop and think before entering a quest “am I able to do this fight with my current ability and roster” rather than “there is literally no chance that anything in this quest challenges my ability and roster.”

    And, I’m sorry, but the “use lower ranked champions” suggestion is not a good one. It’s very common, but the entire point of this game is to collect and rank up champions so you can use them, not so they can collect dust.
    You did miss my point. I'm not saying do not come out with more difficult challenges but the truth is what I said, that no matter how difficult the content, if u have deep enough pockets then it will never be difficult enough.

    I think kabam has enough to deal with every month to not have to hear more complaints about how easy it is. Have u seen all the issues in the bug tab??? Not to mention having to come up with new contents and new ideas every month as well as trying to buff old heroes just right. I know it's a business but u have to feel bad for them with more unnecessary complaints.

    I remember a time when less skilled players kept complaining how hard things were and the more skilled players were telling them to stop complaining and just get good. And now it seems like the tables r turned.

    As for u, if ur not a deep pocket person but just highly skilled, then congrats to you. My advice is either challenge urself by playing with weaker heroes (like I posted b4) or maybe take a break from this game and find one more suited to ur skill levels. Might I suggest chess 😊

    And I'm not mocking u with the chess suggestion. I actually enjoy playing it as well.

    As for kabam, thank you for coming out with new contents every month and keeping me entertained. Please keep up the good and difficult work.
    With your “get good point”, those are two very different situations and you’re acting like it’s comparable.

    If a player cannot do permanent content, they can go away, practice and get better. Get better champions, learn to intercept, learn to use better champions etc. That’s why people say “get better, or practice or whatever”. Your issue if you can’t do something is solvable in the future.

    But if permanent content is too easy, you cannot come back and do it. You have no challenge presented, you can’t use your 6* rank 3 you ranked up because you enjoy them because they kill the content in two specials. I have a rank 3 Professor X who does some act 7 content as quickly as Cav EQ. It’s not fun to use him there and I ranked him up because he’s fun.

    Exaggerating to make a point: Imagine if all content to you was as easy as uncollected EQ, and you wanted to use your champions there but they’re vastly overpowered. They do the content in 30-40 hits and the fights are over. You can’t use your favourite champions, so you ask kabam for some harder content. And people who aren’t even on that content come and say to you oh why don’t you try and use 4*, or lower ranked champions for it. Nope, you wanted to use your new ranked up champions there. People say use weaker champions, what if I don’t enjoy playing them?

    I don’t even have a 5* professor X, and if I did why should I rank him up to use a worse version?

    I’ve done act 6, 7.1, abyss, everything 100%. The only places in the game that prof X has a challenge is act 6 and abyss, and that’s done. Why would I do it again, I want to earn rewards by being challenged. And the only content coming out is act 7.2 which by all accounts seems to be slightly harder 7.1, so he won’t be challenged there.

    Why should the response to asking for harder content be redo old content, for no rewards, with worse champions and lower stars. That’s ridiculous and everyone knows it.

    Especially when the alternative is to just release harder content, and anyone who can’t do it right away can gosh darn well deal with it. They can go away and learn how to get round it. This game is meant to be a contest, a challenge. Not top rewards for easy fights. You can get 75% of a t5cc from 7.1 and select 25% of that. That is crazy to me, when you had to slog through the difficulty of act 6 before.

    Some of the community jump to complain within the first hour of something going live just because their top champion didn’t do it. Go away, learn and come back. That’s how this game stays interesting
    Based on ur argument, u don't enjoy using a hero, u enjoy using a 6*, r3 version of the hero. Keep in mind, I am not telling you who you can or cannot use. Its ur roster, u can use whoever u want.
    You say those who complain it's too hard can rectify the situation by practicing, getting better and stronger heroes, and so on.
    Well, u can rectify ur situation as well by trying to complete these challenges with weaker heroes. U just choose not to. Right now, they have 3* versions of every hero except maybe the exclusive ones.
    You literally can’t bring lower star champions into Act 6/7 content. The game doesn’t allow it. You’re talking about bringing low star level champions into EQ only because that’s the only content where we can bring them. That’s already a thing that gets done occasionally with the 4* challenges we get from time to time. It’s a fun novelty once every couple months and that’s it. You are not making a compelling case.
    I'm just going to say it. Bringing in lower champions to fight content when you have higher champs available is just a waste of time and frankly not that smart unless you have a youtube channel.
  • doctorbdoctorb Posts: 1,124 ★★★
    Wicket329 said:

    doctorb said:

    doctorb said:

    Wicket329 said:

    doctorb said:

    Wicket329 said:

    Having 100% Act 6 pre-nerf, I get why it was done. It was a slog, and it was brutally difficult after Act 5. It just didn’t follow the linear progression of the game.

    The problem, however, was that a not insignificant number of people rose to meet that challenge, and they came to expect that level of difficulty from future content. When Act 6 was tuned down, again as it should have been, the issue is that there was no content left in the game that provided that kind of difficulty.

    So now you’ve got this group of players who developed the skills and roster to take down the hardest content in the game at that time, but all of the content released since then has been substantially easier. That’s not fun.

    Story quests, especially if we continue to gate title progression behind them, should not be the summit of this game. But there needs to be some kind of aspirational content for people after they’ve completed the story. Abyss is an example of that, but realistically it’s just a unit pit. There are very few fights in there that can roadblock you if you’ve farmed/bought enough units (this is good, roadblocks in something like Abyss would be bad!). But there should be shorter quests with real, genuine challenges.

    The Maze is a community favorite that gets brought up. I personally enjoyed the Mulaney challenge as well. I also think that difficult quests that give you an item cap would be something worth considering.

    Something I’d love to see would be a kind of Seasonal Event Quest. In the game for three months, extremely difficult content. Designed to take a very long time to complete/explore, and with rewards like 6* AG crystals and sig stones.

    I also liked the idea from this month’s side quest being a gauntlet that could scale up way higher. That format could also lend itself to aspirational content. Anyway, I’ve rambled enough. Thanks for coming to my TED talk, the three of you who read the whole thing.

    Like u said, if ppl farmed or bought enough units then nothing would be challenging anymore. Kabam could release a challenge where enemies have 1 trillion health points and it won't matter cause some ppl would just keep buying units till they finished it. At some point, the players need to take it upon themselves to create the challenge, like maybe try using heroes one star done from what ur using. Maybe try using 3* or 4*. Other than something like that then there's not much kabam can do. Cause like I said, regardless of how challenging it is, if u have deep pockets then ull b able to finish it.
    Your argument essentially states “there will always be people who will pay-to-win through any difficulty of content, so we shouldn’t make content difficult at all.” If I am wrong on that interpretation, please feel free to correct me.

    I don’t agree with your conclusion. Kabam could easily implement item limitations within a quest if they wanted to create true challenge content. They typically don’t because they want to sell units and this is first and foremost a business, which I get. From a financial incentives standpoint, I would argue that setting an item limit could cause additional item usage because people may get roadblocked and have to start again rather than just infinitely chipping away at it, but I’m sure Kabam’s got finance people who know far more about it than I.

    Or, if people want to spend all those units on potions that’s okay! They can do that! But the idea is that this is lengthy content that I’m proposing. It’s not meant to be done in a Legends Run format, so those of us who are looking for a challenge will have one. This isn’t supposed to be impossible content, it’s supposed to be difficult. There is a difference.

    But that’s not the point here. It’s not that we *can* unitman our way through, it’s that there’s literally no reason to do so. I 100% 7.1 pretty close to itemless, and I know a lot of others who did that too with less developed rosters. I’m not saying content should be designed to siphon off potions and revives, but it should make a player stop and think before entering a quest “am I able to do this fight with my current ability and roster” rather than “there is literally no chance that anything in this quest challenges my ability and roster.”

    And, I’m sorry, but the “use lower ranked champions” suggestion is not a good one. It’s very common, but the entire point of this game is to collect and rank up champions so you can use them, not so they can collect dust.
    You did miss my point. I'm not saying do not come out with more difficult challenges but the truth is what I said, that no matter how difficult the content, if u have deep enough pockets then it will never be difficult enough.

    I think kabam has enough to deal with every month to not have to hear more complaints about how easy it is. Have u seen all the issues in the bug tab??? Not to mention having to come up with new contents and new ideas every month as well as trying to buff old heroes just right. I know it's a business but u have to feel bad for them with more unnecessary complaints.

    I remember a time when less skilled players kept complaining how hard things were and the more skilled players were telling them to stop complaining and just get good. And now it seems like the tables r turned.

    As for u, if ur not a deep pocket person but just highly skilled, then congrats to you. My advice is either challenge urself by playing with weaker heroes (like I posted b4) or maybe take a break from this game and find one more suited to ur skill levels. Might I suggest chess 😊

    And I'm not mocking u with the chess suggestion. I actually enjoy playing it as well.

    As for kabam, thank you for coming out with new contents every month and keeping me entertained. Please keep up the good and difficult work.
    With your “get good point”, those are two very different situations and you’re acting like it’s comparable.

    If a player cannot do permanent content, they can go away, practice and get better. Get better champions, learn to intercept, learn to use better champions etc. That’s why people say “get better, or practice or whatever”. Your issue if you can’t do something is solvable in the future.

    But if permanent content is too easy, you cannot come back and do it. You have no challenge presented, you can’t use your 6* rank 3 you ranked up because you enjoy them because they kill the content in two specials. I have a rank 3 Professor X who does some act 7 content as quickly as Cav EQ. It’s not fun to use him there and I ranked him up because he’s fun.

    Exaggerating to make a point: Imagine if all content to you was as easy as uncollected EQ, and you wanted to use your champions there but they’re vastly overpowered. They do the content in 30-40 hits and the fights are over. You can’t use your favourite champions, so you ask kabam for some harder content. And people who aren’t even on that content come and say to you oh why don’t you try and use 4*, or lower ranked champions for it. Nope, you wanted to use your new ranked up champions there. People say use weaker champions, what if I don’t enjoy playing them?

    I don’t even have a 5* professor X, and if I did why should I rank him up to use a worse version?

    I’ve done act 6, 7.1, abyss, everything 100%. The only places in the game that prof X has a challenge is act 6 and abyss, and that’s done. Why would I do it again, I want to earn rewards by being challenged. And the only content coming out is act 7.2 which by all accounts seems to be slightly harder 7.1, so he won’t be challenged there.

    Why should the response to asking for harder content be redo old content, for no rewards, with worse champions and lower stars. That’s ridiculous and everyone knows it.

    Especially when the alternative is to just release harder content, and anyone who can’t do it right away can gosh darn well deal with it. They can go away and learn how to get round it. This game is meant to be a contest, a challenge. Not top rewards for easy fights. You can get 75% of a t5cc from 7.1 and select 25% of that. That is crazy to me, when you had to slog through the difficulty of act 6 before.

    Some of the community jump to complain within the first hour of something going live just because their top champion didn’t do it. Go away, learn and come back. That’s how this game stays interesting
    Based on ur argument, u don't enjoy using a hero, u enjoy using a 6*, r3 version of the hero. Keep in mind, I am not telling you who you can or cannot use. Its ur roster, u can use whoever u want.
    You say those who complain it's too hard can rectify the situation by practicing, getting better and stronger heroes, and so on.
    Well, u can rectify ur situation as well by trying to complete these challenges with weaker heroes. U just choose not to. Right now, they have 3* versions of every hero except maybe the exclusive ones.
    You literally can’t bring lower star champions into Act 6/7 content. The game doesn’t allow it. You’re talking about bringing low star level champions into EQ only because that’s the only content where we can bring them. That’s already a thing that gets done occasionally with the 4* challenges we get from time to time. It’s a fun novelty once every couple months and that’s it. You are not making a compelling case.
    I know u cant bring it into Act 6 or 7 but u can use lower * in monthly EQ and side quests. Again, u just choose not to.
    You talk about wanting a challenge. Well, nothing more
  • abn86abn86 Posts: 87
    Wicket329 said:

    @abn86 your point about the length of the quest is an interesting one. I remember doing the Flare path in 7.1 and it was super fun but I just had to do a fight with each of my champs and then one champ had to go twice. The downside of the node never kicked in because the path was just over too quickly. Never had to play around it at all, so it wasn’t really much of a challenge.

    Did some checking to see if I could confirm my inclinations. Checked a path in 7.1.2 (Static Blast) and it was 6 before the Rhino boss. Checked a path in 6.4.5 (vivified) and 6.4.4 (Dont go gentle) and they both came in at 9 before the boss. Three fights is for sure noticeable, not sure if that's all of it.

    abn86 said:

    Haji_Saab said:

    People think this game is Street Fighter where this game is actually Diablo. That has been the main issue plaguing us. Kabam, who developed the game, understood this (obviously) but then caved in to the Street Fighter crowd.

    Act 3 Thanos tested our 3* champs, Act 4 was difficult for the rosters at that time (4* 3/30 old champs), Act 5 was difficult, Act 6 was difficult ... Act 7 is absurdly easy for the rosters of its time.

    It's not just Diablo and it's not just Street Fighter because it's also part Pokemon (gotta catch 'em all) - the collection aspect. To me, you're balancing three different types of games, and as such, you get competing ideas on what makes it best. Your opinion is still an opinion, though. I very much enjoyed rocking Thanos back in the day with 3* Cap. And this was back when 4* weren't accessible like that so everyone had to bring out their big guns - which always involved Gamora, for some reason.

    I love the idea of Act 6, pre-nerf, but I hated it because we all have personal RNG and mine is the worst. Or was the worst, anyway. I found a way to get better champs, I just have to pay the featured markup. Act 6 was too niche, but in perspective, it does make sense. Act 6 was the culmination of Book 1. Anytime you ever meet the Big Bad you usually got a helluva fight on your hands. You needed to think about counters constantly. A game inside a game inside the game.

    My counter is that Act 7 is the beginning. Everyone saying 7.1 is too easy is right. 7.1 is the first chapter of the new book. You instinctively want to compare it with Act 6 because it immediately preceded 7, but it's more akin to Act 1. I think the foundation they set for Act 7 does allow it to get incredibly more difficult. Honestly, imo the difficult level in 7.1 is right, but the paths are short. That's what I was the most taken with. It feels like an EQ with a handful of fights and then the boss. I guess I got used to fighting for what feels like forever before I can FINALLY get to the boss. I love that it's not like some super long path, but I wouldn't mind dropping the energy/step and adding more fights.

    Ok I get your point. But how long do we need to wait until act 7 gets hard? 7.2 won’t be out for a month or so, 7.3 won’t be here for half a year 7.4 maybe towards the end of the year. Is the answer to when are we getting hard content really just wait a year?

    People are bored now, people want more challenging content now. And if people have to wait 1/6th of the games life so far for it to be challenging something is wrong.
    I feel you. I wasn't really trying to speak on more than "act 7 is too easy".

    But I agree that there needs to be challenging content. I just don't know if that challenging content should be fixed content like story. I say that because we don't have a variant difficulty on story that can become the insane/God-mode/brutal difficulty that other video games offer.

    The problem is endgame means just that, end of game. If you run out of game what do you do? Honestly few options. Sit around and wait for new content to drop, or quit. And fwiw, I've put in 6 years and quite a bit of cash into this game, so I definitely understand how invested someone else could be.

    But I agree with the general consensus is that the challenging content should return more often. Whether that's season of pain, the maze, mulaney's challenge or something entirely new - there should always be a new challenge. And they keep using Cav as the filter, but it should be TB. Even though there are two types of TB (new and old) they are closer to the type of endgame player that Kabam is targeting than a Cav player (and I say that as a cav waiting for my first formed t5cc)
  • Wicket329Wicket329 Posts: 531 ★★★

    Wicket329 said:

    doctorb said:

    doctorb said:

    Wicket329 said:

    doctorb said:

    Wicket329 said:

    Having 100% Act 6 pre-nerf, I get why it was done. It was a slog, and it was brutally difficult after Act 5. It just didn’t follow the linear progression of the game.

    The problem, however, was that a not insignificant number of people rose to meet that challenge, and they came to expect that level of difficulty from future content. When Act 6 was tuned down, again as it should have been, the issue is that there was no content left in the game that provided that kind of difficulty.

    So now you’ve got this group of players who developed the skills and roster to take down the hardest content in the game at that time, but all of the content released since then has been substantially easier. That’s not fun.

    Story quests, especially if we continue to gate title progression behind them, should not be the summit of this game. But there needs to be some kind of aspirational content for people after they’ve completed the story. Abyss is an example of that, but realistically it’s just a unit pit. There are very few fights in there that can roadblock you if you’ve farmed/bought enough units (this is good, roadblocks in something like Abyss would be bad!). But there should be shorter quests with real, genuine challenges.

    The Maze is a community favorite that gets brought up. I personally enjoyed the Mulaney challenge as well. I also think that difficult quests that give you an item cap would be something worth considering.

    Something I’d love to see would be a kind of Seasonal Event Quest. In the game for three months, extremely difficult content. Designed to take a very long time to complete/explore, and with rewards like 6* AG crystals and sig stones.

    I also liked the idea from this month’s side quest being a gauntlet that could scale up way higher. That format could also lend itself to aspirational content. Anyway, I’ve rambled enough. Thanks for coming to my TED talk, the three of you who read the whole thing.

    Like u said, if ppl farmed or bought enough units then nothing would be challenging anymore. Kabam could release a challenge where enemies have 1 trillion health points and it won't matter cause some ppl would just keep buying units till they finished it. At some point, the players need to take it upon themselves to create the challenge, like maybe try using heroes one star done from what ur using. Maybe try using 3* or 4*. Other than something like that then there's not much kabam can do. Cause like I said, regardless of how challenging it is, if u have deep pockets then ull b able to finish it.
    Your argument essentially states “there will always be people who will pay-to-win through any difficulty of content, so we shouldn’t make content difficult at all.” If I am wrong on that interpretation, please feel free to correct me.

    I don’t agree with your conclusion. Kabam could easily implement item limitations within a quest if they wanted to create true challenge content. They typically don’t because they want to sell units and this is first and foremost a business, which I get. From a financial incentives standpoint, I would argue that setting an item limit could cause additional item usage because people may get roadblocked and have to start again rather than just infinitely chipping away at it, but I’m sure Kabam’s got finance people who know far more about it than I.

    Or, if people want to spend all those units on potions that’s okay! They can do that! But the idea is that this is lengthy content that I’m proposing. It’s not meant to be done in a Legends Run format, so those of us who are looking for a challenge will have one. This isn’t supposed to be impossible content, it’s supposed to be difficult. There is a difference.

    But that’s not the point here. It’s not that we *can* unitman our way through, it’s that there’s literally no reason to do so. I 100% 7.1 pretty close to itemless, and I know a lot of others who did that too with less developed rosters. I’m not saying content should be designed to siphon off potions and revives, but it should make a player stop and think before entering a quest “am I able to do this fight with my current ability and roster” rather than “there is literally no chance that anything in this quest challenges my ability and roster.”

    And, I’m sorry, but the “use lower ranked champions” suggestion is not a good one. It’s very common, but the entire point of this game is to collect and rank up champions so you can use them, not so they can collect dust.
    You did miss my point. I'm not saying do not come out with more difficult challenges but the truth is what I said, that no matter how difficult the content, if u have deep enough pockets then it will never be difficult enough.

    I think kabam has enough to deal with every month to not have to hear more complaints about how easy it is. Have u seen all the issues in the bug tab??? Not to mention having to come up with new contents and new ideas every month as well as trying to buff old heroes just right. I know it's a business but u have to feel bad for them with more unnecessary complaints.

    I remember a time when less skilled players kept complaining how hard things were and the more skilled players were telling them to stop complaining and just get good. And now it seems like the tables r turned.

    As for u, if ur not a deep pocket person but just highly skilled, then congrats to you. My advice is either challenge urself by playing with weaker heroes (like I posted b4) or maybe take a break from this game and find one more suited to ur skill levels. Might I suggest chess 😊

    And I'm not mocking u with the chess suggestion. I actually enjoy playing it as well.

    As for kabam, thank you for coming out with new contents every month and keeping me entertained. Please keep up the good and difficult work.
    With your “get good point”, those are two very different situations and you’re acting like it’s comparable.

    If a player cannot do permanent content, they can go away, practice and get better. Get better champions, learn to intercept, learn to use better champions etc. That’s why people say “get better, or practice or whatever”. Your issue if you can’t do something is solvable in the future.

    But if permanent content is too easy, you cannot come back and do it. You have no challenge presented, you can’t use your 6* rank 3 you ranked up because you enjoy them because they kill the content in two specials. I have a rank 3 Professor X who does some act 7 content as quickly as Cav EQ. It’s not fun to use him there and I ranked him up because he’s fun.

    Exaggerating to make a point: Imagine if all content to you was as easy as uncollected EQ, and you wanted to use your champions there but they’re vastly overpowered. They do the content in 30-40 hits and the fights are over. You can’t use your favourite champions, so you ask kabam for some harder content. And people who aren’t even on that content come and say to you oh why don’t you try and use 4*, or lower ranked champions for it. Nope, you wanted to use your new ranked up champions there. People say use weaker champions, what if I don’t enjoy playing them?

    I don’t even have a 5* professor X, and if I did why should I rank him up to use a worse version?

    I’ve done act 6, 7.1, abyss, everything 100%. The only places in the game that prof X has a challenge is act 6 and abyss, and that’s done. Why would I do it again, I want to earn rewards by being challenged. And the only content coming out is act 7.2 which by all accounts seems to be slightly harder 7.1, so he won’t be challenged there.

    Why should the response to asking for harder content be redo old content, for no rewards, with worse champions and lower stars. That’s ridiculous and everyone knows it.

    Especially when the alternative is to just release harder content, and anyone who can’t do it right away can gosh darn well deal with it. They can go away and learn how to get round it. This game is meant to be a contest, a challenge. Not top rewards for easy fights. You can get 75% of a t5cc from 7.1 and select 25% of that. That is crazy to me, when you had to slog through the difficulty of act 6 before.

    Some of the community jump to complain within the first hour of something going live just because their top champion didn’t do it. Go away, learn and come back. That’s how this game stays interesting
    Based on ur argument, u don't enjoy using a hero, u enjoy using a 6*, r3 version of the hero. Keep in mind, I am not telling you who you can or cannot use. Its ur roster, u can use whoever u want.
    You say those who complain it's too hard can rectify the situation by practicing, getting better and stronger heroes, and so on.
    Well, u can rectify ur situation as well by trying to complete these challenges with weaker heroes. U just choose not to. Right now, they have 3* versions of every hero except maybe the exclusive ones.
    You literally can’t bring lower star champions into Act 6/7 content. The game doesn’t allow it. You’re talking about bringing low star level champions into EQ only because that’s the only content where we can bring them. That’s already a thing that gets done occasionally with the 4* challenges we get from time to time. It’s a fun novelty once every couple months and that’s it. You are not making a compelling case.
    I'm just going to say it. Bringing in lower champions to fight content when you have higher champs available is just a waste of time and frankly not that smart unless you have a youtube channel.
    Yeah honestly this is what it boils down to. The game is about collecting and ranking champions. A suggestion to use champions worse than the ones I’ve collected and ranked is against the point of the game.

    It’s like going through Pokémon with only a ratata. Sure, you can do it, but why do you hate yourself
  • TyEdgeTyEdge Posts: 1,071 ★★★★
    edited March 25
    Wicket329 said:

    Wicket329 said:

    doctorb said:

    doctorb said:

    Wicket329 said:

    doctorb said:

    Wicket329 said:

    Having 100% Act 6 pre-nerf, I get why it was done. It was a slog, and it was brutally difficult after Act 5. It just didn’t follow the linear progression of the game.

    The problem, however, was that a not insignificant number of people rose to meet that challenge, and they came to expect that level of difficulty from future content. When Act 6 was tuned down, again as it should have been, the issue is that there was no content left in the game that provided that kind of difficulty.

    So now you’ve got this group of players who developed the skills and roster to take down the hardest content in the game at that time, but all of the content released since then has been substantially easier. That’s not fun.

    Story quests, especially if we continue to gate title progression behind them, should not be the summit of this game. But there needs to be some kind of aspirational content for people after they’ve completed the story. Abyss is an example of that, but realistically it’s just a unit pit. There are very few fights in there that can roadblock you if you’ve farmed/bought enough units (this is good, roadblocks in something like Abyss would be bad!). But there should be shorter quests with real, genuine challenges.

    The Maze is a community favorite that gets brought up. I personally enjoyed the Mulaney challenge as well. I also think that difficult quests that give you an item cap would be something worth considering.

    Something I’d love to see would be a kind of Seasonal Event Quest. In the game for three months, extremely difficult content. Designed to take a very long time to complete/explore, and with rewards like 6* AG crystals and sig stones.

    I also liked the idea from this month’s side quest being a gauntlet that could scale up way higher. That format could also lend itself to aspirational content. Anyway, I’ve rambled enough. Thanks for coming to my TED talk, the three of you who read the whole thing.

    Like u said, if ppl farmed or bought enough units then nothing would be challenging anymore. Kabam could release a challenge where enemies have 1 trillion health points and it won't matter cause some ppl would just keep buying units till they finished it. At some point, the players need to take it upon themselves to create the challenge, like maybe try using heroes one star done from what ur using. Maybe try using 3* or 4*. Other than something like that then there's not much kabam can do. Cause like I said, regardless of how challenging it is, if u have deep pockets then ull b able to finish it.
    Your argument essentially states “there will always be people who will pay-to-win through any difficulty of content, so we shouldn’t make content difficult at all.” If I am wrong on that interpretation, please feel free to correct me.

    I don’t agree with your conclusion. Kabam could easily implement item limitations within a quest if they wanted to create true challenge content. They typically don’t because they want to sell units and this is first and foremost a business, which I get. From a financial incentives standpoint, I would argue that setting an item limit could cause additional item usage because people may get roadblocked and have to start again rather than just infinitely chipping away at it, but I’m sure Kabam’s got finance people who know far more about it than I.

    Or, if people want to spend all those units on potions that’s okay! They can do that! But the idea is that this is lengthy content that I’m proposing. It’s not meant to be done in a Legends Run format, so those of us who are looking for a challenge will have one. This isn’t supposed to be impossible content, it’s supposed to be difficult. There is a difference.

    But that’s not the point here. It’s not that we *can* unitman our way through, it’s that there’s literally no reason to do so. I 100% 7.1 pretty close to itemless, and I know a lot of others who did that too with less developed rosters. I’m not saying content should be designed to siphon off potions and revives, but it should make a player stop and think before entering a quest “am I able to do this fight with my current ability and roster” rather than “there is literally no chance that anything in this quest challenges my ability and roster.”

    And, I’m sorry, but the “use lower ranked champions” suggestion is not a good one. It’s very common, but the entire point of this game is to collect and rank up champions so you can use them, not so they can collect dust.
    You did miss my point. I'm not saying do not come out with more difficult challenges but the truth is what I said, that no matter how difficult the content, if u have deep enough pockets then it will never be difficult enough.

    I think kabam has enough to deal with every month to not have to hear more complaints about how easy it is. Have u seen all the issues in the bug tab??? Not to mention having to come up with new contents and new ideas every month as well as trying to buff old heroes just right. I know it's a business but u have to feel bad for them with more unnecessary complaints.

    I remember a time when less skilled players kept complaining how hard things were and the more skilled players were telling them to stop complaining and just get good. And now it seems like the tables r turned.

    As for u, if ur not a deep pocket person but just highly skilled, then congrats to you. My advice is either challenge urself by playing with weaker heroes (like I posted b4) or maybe take a break from this game and find one more suited to ur skill levels. Might I suggest chess 😊

    And I'm not mocking u with the chess suggestion. I actually enjoy playing it as well.

    As for kabam, thank you for coming out with new contents every month and keeping me entertained. Please keep up the good and difficult work.
    With your “get good point”, those are two very different situations and you’re acting like it’s comparable.

    If a player cannot do permanent content, they can go away, practice and get better. Get better champions, learn to intercept, learn to use better champions etc. That’s why people say “get better, or practice or whatever”. Your issue if you can’t do something is solvable in the future.

    But if permanent content is too easy, you cannot come back and do it. You have no challenge presented, you can’t use your 6* rank 3 you ranked up because you enjoy them because they kill the content in two specials. I have a rank 3 Professor X who does some act 7 content as quickly as Cav EQ. It’s not fun to use him there and I ranked him up because he’s fun.

    Exaggerating to make a point: Imagine if all content to you was as easy as uncollected EQ, and you wanted to use your champions there but they’re vastly overpowered. They do the content in 30-40 hits and the fights are over. You can’t use your favourite champions, so you ask kabam for some harder content. And people who aren’t even on that content come and say to you oh why don’t you try and use 4*, or lower ranked champions for it. Nope, you wanted to use your new ranked up champions there. People say use weaker champions, what if I don’t enjoy playing them?

    I don’t even have a 5* professor X, and if I did why should I rank him up to use a worse version?

    I’ve done act 6, 7.1, abyss, everything 100%. The only places in the game that prof X has a challenge is act 6 and abyss, and that’s done. Why would I do it again, I want to earn rewards by being challenged. And the only content coming out is act 7.2 which by all accounts seems to be slightly harder 7.1, so he won’t be challenged there.

    Why should the response to asking for harder content be redo old content, for no rewards, with worse champions and lower stars. That’s ridiculous and everyone knows it.

    Especially when the alternative is to just release harder content, and anyone who can’t do it right away can gosh darn well deal with it. They can go away and learn how to get round it. This game is meant to be a contest, a challenge. Not top rewards for easy fights. You can get 75% of a t5cc from 7.1 and select 25% of that. That is crazy to me, when you had to slog through the difficulty of act 6 before.

    Some of the community jump to complain within the first hour of something going live just because their top champion didn’t do it. Go away, learn and come back. That’s how this game stays interesting
    Based on ur argument, u don't enjoy using a hero, u enjoy using a 6*, r3 version of the hero. Keep in mind, I am not telling you who you can or cannot use. Its ur roster, u can use whoever u want.
    You say those who complain it's too hard can rectify the situation by practicing, getting better and stronger heroes, and so on.
    Well, u can rectify ur situation as well by trying to complete these challenges with weaker heroes. U just choose not to. Right now, they have 3* versions of every hero except maybe the exclusive ones.
    You literally can’t bring lower star champions into Act 6/7 content. The game doesn’t allow it. You’re talking about bringing low star level champions into EQ only because that’s the only content where we can bring them. That’s already a thing that gets done occasionally with the 4* challenges we get from time to time. It’s a fun novelty once every couple months and that’s it. You are not making a compelling case.
    I'm just going to say it. Bringing in lower champions to fight content when you have higher champs available is just a waste of time and frankly not that smart unless you have a youtube channel.
    Yeah honestly this is what it boils down to. The game is about collecting and ranking champions. A suggestion to use champions worse than the ones I’ve collected and ranked is against the point of the game.

    It’s like going through Pokémon with only a ratata. Sure, you can do it, but why do you hate yourself
    I’ll follow up with this - the 4-star challenge for t5cc is trash. The difficulty could just as easily be recreatd by having a chapter 4 where the easy paths from each quest had double attack and health, and it wouldn’t require you to waste 8 t4b per champ. It’s an especially insulting proposal in a world where 4-stars are barred from act 6.
  • ElwindElwind Posts: 237 ★★★
    Every month we interested cavalier diff. but 1 week and it is done.Then nothing interesting in remaning 3 week.Wait new month event and repeat.This routine is very bored.

    This game definitely need new modes or new exciting contents...
  • CreeseazCreeseaz Posts: 179
    Wicket329 said:

    Having 100% Act 6 pre-nerf, I get why it was done. It was a slog, and it was brutally difficult after Act 5. It just didn’t follow the linear progression of the game.

    The problem, however, was that a not insignificant number of people rose to meet that challenge, and they came to expect that level of difficulty from future content. When Act 6 was tuned down, again as it should have been, the issue is that there was no content left in the game that provided that kind of difficulty.

    So now you’ve got this group of players who developed the skills and roster to take down the hardest content in the game at that time, but all of the content released since then has been substantially easier. That’s not fun.

    Story quests, especially if we continue to gate title progression behind them, should not be the summit of this game. But there needs to be some kind of aspirational content for people after they’ve completed the story. Abyss is an example of that, but realistically it’s just a unit pit. There are very few fights in there that can roadblock you if you’ve farmed/bought enough units (this is good, roadblocks in something like Abyss would be bad!). But there should be shorter quests with real, genuine challenges.

    The Maze is a community favorite that gets brought up. I personally enjoyed the Mulaney challenge as well. I also think that difficult quests that give you an item cap would be something worth considering.

    Something I’d love to see would be a kind of Seasonal Event Quest. In the game for three months, extremely difficult content. Designed to take a very long time to complete/explore, and with rewards like 6* AG crystals and sig stones.

    I also liked the idea from this month’s side quest being a gauntlet that could scale up way higher. That format could also lend itself to aspirational content. Anyway, I’ve rambled enough. Thanks for coming to my TED talk, the three of you who read the whole thing.

    I completely agree and I would love that kind of free month event Quest idea I'm almost in the same situation as you I have everything done except exploring Abyss have a few past left but as I'm doing Arena and saving up units for the foreseeable future it is like nothing else for me to freaking do except maybe some Alliance stuff I think that kind of EQ would be literally perfect Edition
  • The_Sentry06The_Sentry06 Posts: 5,916 ★★★★★

    Really hoping we get either 7.2, Variant 7, or _____ of Pain next month. Past 3 months have been so dry new content wise.

    One of these are coming next month!
    Yess. Is it Variant 7 or the ___ of Pain?
  • CrcrcrcCrcrcrc Posts: 7,199 ★★★★★

    Really hoping we get either 7.2, Variant 7, or _____ of Pain next month. Past 3 months have been so dry new content wise.

    One of these are coming next month!
    Yess. Is it Variant 7 or the ___ of Pain?
    I really hope it's the Season of Pain
  • abn86abn86 Posts: 87
    @doctorb Have you ever played a console/PC game? If so, what do you do once you beat the game? Some people may re-run it under a higher difficulty. But what if you already ran it at the highest difficulty? Then what?

    You're talking to people who beat the game at the highest difficulty (because there is no variant MCoC) and then said well make it more difficult on your own.

    One of my favorite games is Assassin's Creed. Once I beat the story, I am endgame. Now, I have to figure out what to do. I still want something to do with my fully "maxed" character that I've invested all the time into building. Why would I want to start over? Instead, I want to continue the story. I can buy the season pass there though. Not the same here. So I would have to wait.

    This is where the endgame player is in MCoC. Waiting. Probably for a fight that's longer than a minute.
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