Why Relics Aren’t as Bad as You Might Think!!

Demonzfyre · May 2021

MikeHock said:

Demonzfyre said:

MikeHock said:
There was talk about “gears” a few months before 12.0 and the playerbase was very much against it.
The problem with that is that was like 5 years ago. We didn't have or barely had/saw 5*'s at that point. There was still tons of room for roster progression. We did NEED any gearing system back there because we knew 5*'s were coming.

We don't really know if 7*'s will ever be introduced but seeing as 6*'s have been in the contest for roughly 3 years and we can just now take them to R3 recently. Kabam has to look at ways of roster progression that may not include 7*'s. Gear or Relics are that way to keep growing a roster without adding in star rarities.
Well it didn’t work out too well for injustice and that’s why I stopped playing that game. So far most of the feedback on relics/gear is the same as it was in 2016-2017.

Well how many of the people who are against Relics know what that system entails? How much information do you have to go off of currently? Zero other than Kabam is floating the idea of Relics out there. I'd like to see what the concept is before going off the deep end.

Did you see all the people who said the new AQ system with links won't work? They all said they won't be able to finish the map etc... well after they actually did the map, you don't see the complaints anymore.

Maybe save the harsh judgement until you get some more information.

Gamer · May 2021

Demonzfyre said:

MikeHock said:

Demonzfyre said:

MikeHock said:
There was talk about “gears” a few months before 12.0 and the playerbase was very much against it.
The problem with that is that was like 5 years ago. We didn't have or barely had/saw 5*'s at that point. There was still tons of room for roster progression. We did NEED any gearing system back there because we knew 5*'s were coming.

We don't really know if 7*'s will ever be introduced but seeing as 6*'s have been in the contest for roughly 3 years and we can just now take them to R3 recently. Kabam has to look at ways of roster progression that may not include 7*'s. Gear or Relics are that way to keep growing a roster without adding in star rarities.
Well it didn’t work out too well for injustice and that’s why I stopped playing that game. So far most of the feedback on relics/gear is the same as it was in 2016-2017.
Well how many of the people who are against Relics know what that system entails? How much information do you have to go off of currently? Zero other than Kabam is floating the idea of Relics out there. I'd like to see what the concept is before going off the deep end.

Did you see all the people who said the new AQ system with links won't work? They all said they won't be able to finish the map etc... well after they actually did the map, you don't see the complaints anymore.

Maybe save the harsh judgement until you get some more information.

I’m Agerd with that’s can’t said a lot about if it where u hav to get it to keep op it a no for me and that wil be the end for me playing the game but if it in Ofer game mode where u can hav fun with I’m happy to try it out

VABBI2003 · May 2021

It was me with the double edged sword comment

Greekhit · May 2021

DNA3000 said:

Mauled said:
I mean the game model is hugely successful and I dunno why they’d risk changing it. RuneScape did something very similar to their combat system nigh on 10 years ago and it virtually killed the game to the point that 2 years later they reintroduced a legacy version of the game which is more popular than the ‘live’ game.

People who want a different core system play a different game.
This is the million dollar question. And the answer is that the playerbase is divided on post 6* advancement. Some players have no problem with introducing 7* champions and rebooting roster progress again. Some would rather have a system that builds upon 6* champs. Some would rather not even do anything at all, and just have roster progress end (in the upward direction) with 6* r5.

First things first. The last one is impossible. Period end of story, if that's a deal breaker for you, might as well quit now. The game will always have at least one high end pursuit goal. Progress ends when the dev team moves on to something else and puts the game in maintenance mode to die a slow death.

Both of the actual post 6* progress options have problems. Rebooting progress with 7* champs can cause a feeling that all prior investment has been lost, which weakens engagement in the game. Of course, *all* progress hasn't been lost because even with 6* champs it was obviously the players with the largest and most powerful 5* rosters that were in the best position to build 6* rosters, but this was still an issue. In my opinion, not as big an issue as some made it out to be, but it is true that this disengagement can get worse over time if it happens repeatedly.

Building on 6* champs also has problems, namely it can create a sense among newer players that progression is hopeless, because there is no way to even begin to approach the top players in the game. I'm not talking about the top 1% of 1% of mega whales with the 4 million rating roster, I'm talking about even players like me with the 2.4 million roster. The game can't accelerate new players getting 6* champs faster to accelerate them towards veterans like me, because that will also accelerate me. The less approachable the game is, the more long term damage you do to the playerbase. Without a constant influx of new players replacing older players and keeping things fresh, the game would once again die a slow death.

In my opinion, Relics are a transition system. It is not going to be as powerful as a new rarity will be. It doesn't replace whatever has to come next. But it can squeeze more life out of 6* champions, so the inevitable day when the devs will have to confront the same decision they had with 6* champs gets pushed out a little longer, and progression is allowed to continue upward for a little longer before something else comes along to upset the apple cart again.

They can simply add rank 6 or even rank 7 to 6*s, if they want to squeeze more out of them and delay 7*s introduction.
Relics seem like the riskiest decision to do that transition.
Changing the core of the contest, despite that is already successful as it is, might turn to a v.12 situation.
I personally not looking forward to relics, cause I’m concerned if the game I loved playing for so many years, will turn to something different.
Hope it’s not...

IronGladiator22 · May 2021

I heard of relics and I got really excited. Why are people so hesitant about them?I don’t love gear in games either, but this dosnt seem as complex as most other gear systems. I’m waiting for release for full opinion

Demonzfyre · May 2021

Greekhit said:

DNA3000 said:

Mauled said:
I mean the game model is hugely successful and I dunno why they’d risk changing it. RuneScape did something very similar to their combat system nigh on 10 years ago and it virtually killed the game to the point that 2 years later they reintroduced a legacy version of the game which is more popular than the ‘live’ game.

People who want a different core system play a different game.
This is the million dollar question. And the answer is that the playerbase is divided on post 6* advancement. Some players have no problem with introducing 7* champions and rebooting roster progress again. Some would rather have a system that builds upon 6* champs. Some would rather not even do anything at all, and just have roster progress end (in the upward direction) with 6* r5.

First things first. The last one is impossible. Period end of story, if that's a deal breaker for you, might as well quit now. The game will always have at least one high end pursuit goal. Progress ends when the dev team moves on to something else and puts the game in maintenance mode to die a slow death.

Both of the actual post 6* progress options have problems. Rebooting progress with 7* champs can cause a feeling that all prior investment has been lost, which weakens engagement in the game. Of course, *all* progress hasn't been lost because even with 6* champs it was obviously the players with the largest and most powerful 5* rosters that were in the best position to build 6* rosters, but this was still an issue. In my opinion, not as big an issue as some made it out to be, but it is true that this disengagement can get worse over time if it happens repeatedly.

Building on 6* champs also has problems, namely it can create a sense among newer players that progression is hopeless, because there is no way to even begin to approach the top players in the game. I'm not talking about the top 1% of 1% of mega whales with the 4 million rating roster, I'm talking about even players like me with the 2.4 million roster. The game can't accelerate new players getting 6* champs faster to accelerate them towards veterans like me, because that will also accelerate me. The less approachable the game is, the more long term damage you do to the playerbase. Without a constant influx of new players replacing older players and keeping things fresh, the game would once again die a slow death.

In my opinion, Relics are a transition system. It is not going to be as powerful as a new rarity will be. It doesn't replace whatever has to come next. But it can squeeze more life out of 6* champions, so the inevitable day when the devs will have to confront the same decision they had with 6* champs gets pushed out a little longer, and progression is allowed to continue upward for a little longer before something else comes along to upset the apple cart again.
They can simply add rank 6 or even rank 7 to 6*s, if they want to squeeze more out of them and delay 7*s introduction.
Relics seem like the riskiest decision to do that transition.
Changing the core of the contest, despite that is already successful as it is, might turn to a v.12 situation.
I personally not looking forward to relics, cause I’m concerned if the game I loved playing for so many years, will turn to something different.
Hope it’s not...

How are relics any different than boosts we currently have? We had Act specific boosts for act 6, we have war boosts and we have general boosts.

Relics/gear only enhance a champions attributes so how's that any different than popping 30% attack/health boosts?

SkyLord7000 · May 2021

Demonzfyre said:

Greekhit said:

DNA3000 said:

Mauled said:
I mean the game model is hugely successful and I dunno why they’d risk changing it. RuneScape did something very similar to their combat system nigh on 10 years ago and it virtually killed the game to the point that 2 years later they reintroduced a legacy version of the game which is more popular than the ‘live’ game.

People who want a different core system play a different game.
This is the million dollar question. And the answer is that the playerbase is divided on post 6* advancement. Some players have no problem with introducing 7* champions and rebooting roster progress again. Some would rather have a system that builds upon 6* champs. Some would rather not even do anything at all, and just have roster progress end (in the upward direction) with 6* r5.

First things first. The last one is impossible. Period end of story, if that's a deal breaker for you, might as well quit now. The game will always have at least one high end pursuit goal. Progress ends when the dev team moves on to something else and puts the game in maintenance mode to die a slow death.

Both of the actual post 6* progress options have problems. Rebooting progress with 7* champs can cause a feeling that all prior investment has been lost, which weakens engagement in the game. Of course, *all* progress hasn't been lost because even with 6* champs it was obviously the players with the largest and most powerful 5* rosters that were in the best position to build 6* rosters, but this was still an issue. In my opinion, not as big an issue as some made it out to be, but it is true that this disengagement can get worse over time if it happens repeatedly.

Building on 6* champs also has problems, namely it can create a sense among newer players that progression is hopeless, because there is no way to even begin to approach the top players in the game. I'm not talking about the top 1% of 1% of mega whales with the 4 million rating roster, I'm talking about even players like me with the 2.4 million roster. The game can't accelerate new players getting 6* champs faster to accelerate them towards veterans like me, because that will also accelerate me. The less approachable the game is, the more long term damage you do to the playerbase. Without a constant influx of new players replacing older players and keeping things fresh, the game would once again die a slow death.

In my opinion, Relics are a transition system. It is not going to be as powerful as a new rarity will be. It doesn't replace whatever has to come next. But it can squeeze more life out of 6* champions, so the inevitable day when the devs will have to confront the same decision they had with 6* champs gets pushed out a little longer, and progression is allowed to continue upward for a little longer before something else comes along to upset the apple cart again.
They can simply add rank 6 or even rank 7 to 6*s, if they want to squeeze more out of them and delay 7*s introduction.
Relics seem like the riskiest decision to do that transition.
Changing the core of the contest, despite that is already successful as it is, might turn to a v.12 situation.
I personally not looking forward to relics, cause I’m concerned if the game I loved playing for so many years, will turn to something different.
Hope it’s not...
How are relics any different than boosts we currently have? We had Act specific boosts for act 6, we have war boosts and we have general boosts.

Relics/gear only enhance a champions attributes so how's that any different than popping 30% attack/health boosts?

Relic should change a champs animation through strikers. Depending on release, having let’s say Nicks ending light could be added to ANY champ. Would be an insane buff to many champs in the game. To early to even suggest that be possible yet but that’s the potential of these relics.

Wongo · May 2021

Demonzfyre said:

Greekhit said:

DNA3000 said:

Mauled said:
I mean the game model is hugely successful and I dunno why they’d risk changing it. RuneScape did something very similar to their combat system nigh on 10 years ago and it virtually killed the game to the point that 2 years later they reintroduced a legacy version of the game which is more popular than the ‘live’ game.

People who want a different core system play a different game.
This is the million dollar question. And the answer is that the playerbase is divided on post 6* advancement. Some players have no problem with introducing 7* champions and rebooting roster progress again. Some would rather have a system that builds upon 6* champs. Some would rather not even do anything at all, and just have roster progress end (in the upward direction) with 6* r5.

First things first. The last one is impossible. Period end of story, if that's a deal breaker for you, might as well quit now. The game will always have at least one high end pursuit goal. Progress ends when the dev team moves on to something else and puts the game in maintenance mode to die a slow death.

Both of the actual post 6* progress options have problems. Rebooting progress with 7* champs can cause a feeling that all prior investment has been lost, which weakens engagement in the game. Of course, *all* progress hasn't been lost because even with 6* champs it was obviously the players with the largest and most powerful 5* rosters that were in the best position to build 6* rosters, but this was still an issue. In my opinion, not as big an issue as some made it out to be, but it is true that this disengagement can get worse over time if it happens repeatedly.

Building on 6* champs also has problems, namely it can create a sense among newer players that progression is hopeless, because there is no way to even begin to approach the top players in the game. I'm not talking about the top 1% of 1% of mega whales with the 4 million rating roster, I'm talking about even players like me with the 2.4 million roster. The game can't accelerate new players getting 6* champs faster to accelerate them towards veterans like me, because that will also accelerate me. The less approachable the game is, the more long term damage you do to the playerbase. Without a constant influx of new players replacing older players and keeping things fresh, the game would once again die a slow death.

In my opinion, Relics are a transition system. It is not going to be as powerful as a new rarity will be. It doesn't replace whatever has to come next. But it can squeeze more life out of 6* champions, so the inevitable day when the devs will have to confront the same decision they had with 6* champs gets pushed out a little longer, and progression is allowed to continue upward for a little longer before something else comes along to upset the apple cart again.
They can simply add rank 6 or even rank 7 to 6*s, if they want to squeeze more out of them and delay 7*s introduction.
Relics seem like the riskiest decision to do that transition.
Changing the core of the contest, despite that is already successful as it is, might turn to a v.12 situation.
I personally not looking forward to relics, cause I’m concerned if the game I loved playing for so many years, will turn to something different.
Hope it’s not...
How are relics any different than boosts we currently have? We had Act specific boosts for act 6, we have war boosts and we have general boosts.

Relics/gear only enhance a champions attributes so how's that any different than popping 30% attack/health boosts?

Because those “gears” are going to end up in a 300 unit Crystal where you have a chance to get a 3-6* equipment. And going off by how horrible Realm of champions gear pieces are (go watch Seatins video) and knowing how incompetent kabam is so they will copy pasta this over. The gear you get from said crystal will have randomized sub stats. So even if you get lucky and get a 6* gear piece. If you got **** rolls you better open up some more gear crystals.

ESF · May 2021

I think this, as it was noted in earlier comments: Kabam cannot just stop the game at 6-stars. There will either be 7-stars, or something added onto 6-stars like gears.

Just as people feel strongly about gears and might quit...hey. I understand. Nothing lasts forever.

But I feel just as strongly about 7-stars.

I am not gonna make some frantic, dramatic statement about what I am going to do if 7-stars come. What if Kabam made it so you could somehow advance 6-stars you already have to 7? Something like that might interest me. You never know what might happen.

But I know me well enough to know this: I truly enjoy this game. I will always find ways to play it.

But I just don’t have any desire to rebuild another rarity.

Now, again, that’s just me. Totally speaking for myself.

But I started with the other old players, when all we had was 1, 2, and 3-stars. I might be missing three or four 3-stars, total, because I always want to have something to chase there. I am missing maybe eight or so four-stars, maximum. Maybe 12-15 five-stars. I only have 50 or so 6-stars, with a bare handful duped, none over Sig 50.

I mean, come on. Yes, they might make it so 6-stars become as easy to get as 4-stars and even 5-stars, now.

But come on, now.

It’s gonna take me YEARS — YEARS — to even pretend like I will have as many 6-stars as I currently have 5-stars. Factor in duping and ranking them up...LOL

No.

Again, speaking for myself: That will keep me busy for YEARS.

I won’t be quitting, and I won’t make any dramatic statements.

I am just saying I will wish folks well who embark on a 7-star world, should that come, because I just don’t think I will be joining that chase

GroundedWisdom · May 2021

I'm torn on this one. On one hand, I can see the potential. On the other, it feels ominous. I have to actually see the execution of this to form a better opinion. What I do know is another Rarity is inevitable if the game is to continue long-term. If not, and this is the method of extension (as much as it pains me to say it), I don't see this going over well in the long run. If it is as DNA suggests and it is a stepping stone, that has me questioning a number of things. There's a fine line between pacing our progress and overstretching it. T5CCs as it is are trickling, and that's for an R3. There's only so much you can lengthen the process before it has an adverse effect.

Pulyaman · May 2021

I am not sure what this gear system is. Is it something like the spoiler and the decal that we add in NFS games? If yes, I don't know how that will prolong the introduction of the next rarity. I could see some interesting things like giving immunity to a particular champ with a particular gear and adding a projectile attack to a physical attack based champ and so on. But, with the number of champs in the game, I feel it could get real tedious real quick.

Destroy4589 · May 2021

If it's something like the gear is introduced then star levels/rarity are added and then refinement then it's going to be just awful. Games like injustice really made me hate gear so much. That game became so grindy that you basically had to invest your whole life just to get the gear and to level it up. It's so grindy and you can bet that it will be put behind some crystal for the whales and stuff like legends runs/AW will get affected among other things. If Kabam doesn't implement this properly then it will just become game ruining. I hope they get it right I guess.

Ercarret · May 2021

One thing I really dislike about AW currently is that you never know what mastery setup an opponent has until you fight them. There's a massive difference between fighting someone with one point in Limber and fighting someone with maxed-out Limber, as is fighting someone with or without Mystic Dispersion maxed-out. It's like going into a story fight with random nodes thrown in. I hate that aspect of AW.

AW Relics could be this problem on steroids, which I'm wary of. However, I'm excited about playing around with Relics in various PvE situations.

AMS94 · May 2021

There's no way Kabam introduces a system like relics or gears or enhancements & doesn't add a pay to win element to it
F2P players might be able to get them or grind fr them, but the relics will surely have comparatively easier accessibility to spenders
Relics implementation will decide the future of MCOC
If it's just nice to have bonuses that aren't game breaking, & it's restricted to content like Arena or PvP challenge modes etc then it's fine
If it adds too much value to the champion & affects AW AQ or becomes a necessary element to go through story content, then it will be a problem

DNA3000 · May 2021

Wongo said:

Demonzfyre said:

Greekhit said:

DNA3000 said:

Mauled said:
I mean the game model is hugely successful and I dunno why they’d risk changing it. RuneScape did something very similar to their combat system nigh on 10 years ago and it virtually killed the game to the point that 2 years later they reintroduced a legacy version of the game which is more popular than the ‘live’ game.

People who want a different core system play a different game.
This is the million dollar question. And the answer is that the playerbase is divided on post 6* advancement. Some players have no problem with introducing 7* champions and rebooting roster progress again. Some would rather have a system that builds upon 6* champs. Some would rather not even do anything at all, and just have roster progress end (in the upward direction) with 6* r5.

First things first. The last one is impossible. Period end of story, if that's a deal breaker for you, might as well quit now. The game will always have at least one high end pursuit goal. Progress ends when the dev team moves on to something else and puts the game in maintenance mode to die a slow death.

Both of the actual post 6* progress options have problems. Rebooting progress with 7* champs can cause a feeling that all prior investment has been lost, which weakens engagement in the game. Of course, *all* progress hasn't been lost because even with 6* champs it was obviously the players with the largest and most powerful 5* rosters that were in the best position to build 6* rosters, but this was still an issue. In my opinion, not as big an issue as some made it out to be, but it is true that this disengagement can get worse over time if it happens repeatedly.

Building on 6* champs also has problems, namely it can create a sense among newer players that progression is hopeless, because there is no way to even begin to approach the top players in the game. I'm not talking about the top 1% of 1% of mega whales with the 4 million rating roster, I'm talking about even players like me with the 2.4 million roster. The game can't accelerate new players getting 6* champs faster to accelerate them towards veterans like me, because that will also accelerate me. The less approachable the game is, the more long term damage you do to the playerbase. Without a constant influx of new players replacing older players and keeping things fresh, the game would once again die a slow death.

In my opinion, Relics are a transition system. It is not going to be as powerful as a new rarity will be. It doesn't replace whatever has to come next. But it can squeeze more life out of 6* champions, so the inevitable day when the devs will have to confront the same decision they had with 6* champs gets pushed out a little longer, and progression is allowed to continue upward for a little longer before something else comes along to upset the apple cart again.
They can simply add rank 6 or even rank 7 to 6*s, if they want to squeeze more out of them and delay 7*s introduction.
Relics seem like the riskiest decision to do that transition.
Changing the core of the contest, despite that is already successful as it is, might turn to a v.12 situation.
I personally not looking forward to relics, cause I’m concerned if the game I loved playing for so many years, will turn to something different.
Hope it’s not...
How are relics any different than boosts we currently have? We had Act specific boosts for act 6, we have war boosts and we have general boosts.

Relics/gear only enhance a champions attributes so how's that any different than popping 30% attack/health boosts?
Because those “gears” are going to end up in a 300 unit Crystal where you have a chance to get a 3-6* equipment.

That would be awesome if it happens. Because that will make it accessible to F2P players.

Wongo said:
And going off by how horrible Realm of champions gear pieces are (go watch Seatins video) and knowing how incompetent kabam is so they will copy pasta this over. The gear you get from said crystal will have randomized sub stats. So even if you get lucky and get a 6* gear piece. If you got **** rolls you better open up some more gear crystals.

Relics aren't going to work the way Realm of Champions gear works. As described in the dev diary, a Relic functions more like a "framework" of buffs, and individual buffs are "slotted" into the Relic to activate them. And the buffs (at least initially) appear to be on the order of (lower strength) masteries.

So the Relic system, at least initially, is going to function more like champion-specific masteries. You equip a Relic, and that Relic contains a number of "mastery slots." Then you collect "mastery nodes" and slot them into the Relic.

The exception to this seems to be the top tier Relic stuff which is Strikers. Between what the devs originally stated about Strikers and what they are saying now in the dev diary, Strikers seem to be a special kind of Relic node that you have to hunt for, and you probably need a high tier Relic capable of housing it applied to a champion to use it. It is probably meant to be the top tier pursuit goal for the whales and hard core grinders to chase. And there's always going to be such a thing everywhere in the game, whether it is Relics or something else.

None of this looks remotely like the Realm of Champions gear system, which is a much more conventional gear system that is tied to the core stats of the playable entities. In other words, without the top tier gear, your champion simply isn't competitive in the game. Relics seems to be the difference between someone with an optimized mastery tree and someone that has haphazard masteries. A noteworthy difference, but not the difference between competitive and worthless.

Strikers are the wild card unknowable in all of this. But those top tier chasers have to chase something, and if it is not strikers then it will be something like 7* champs. You can pick your poison there, but you can't eliminate it. In this game, the top chasers will always have something to chase, and it is always going to be something that offers some significant advantage in the game. Strikers don't seem to be any more problematic than anything else.

Will3808 · May 2021

Relics sound super cool but they should be able to be used other than in the content you get them from. It makes no sense to let us use them in permanent content that was released before they were.

DNA3000 · May 2021

butter_ball20 said:

DNA3000 said:

Wongo said:

Demonzfyre said:

Greekhit said:

DNA3000 said:

Mauled said:
I mean the game model is hugely successful and I dunno why they’d risk changing it. RuneScape did something very similar to their combat system nigh on 10 years ago and it virtually killed the game to the point that 2 years later they reintroduced a legacy version of the game which is more popular than the ‘live’ game.

People who want a different core system play a different game.
This is the million dollar question. And the answer is that the playerbase is divided on post 6* advancement. Some players have no problem with introducing 7* champions and rebooting roster progress again. Some would rather have a system that builds upon 6* champs. Some would rather not even do anything at all, and just have roster progress end (in the upward direction) with 6* r5.

First things first. The last one is impossible. Period end of story, if that's a deal breaker for you, might as well quit now. The game will always have at least one high end pursuit goal. Progress ends when the dev team moves on to something else and puts the game in maintenance mode to die a slow death.

Both of the actual post 6* progress options have problems. Rebooting progress with 7* champs can cause a feeling that all prior investment has been lost, which weakens engagement in the game. Of course, *all* progress hasn't been lost because even with 6* champs it was obviously the players with the largest and most powerful 5* rosters that were in the best position to build 6* rosters, but this was still an issue. In my opinion, not as big an issue as some made it out to be, but it is true that this disengagement can get worse over time if it happens repeatedly.

Building on 6* champs also has problems, namely it can create a sense among newer players that progression is hopeless, because there is no way to even begin to approach the top players in the game. I'm not talking about the top 1% of 1% of mega whales with the 4 million rating roster, I'm talking about even players like me with the 2.4 million roster. The game can't accelerate new players getting 6* champs faster to accelerate them towards veterans like me, because that will also accelerate me. The less approachable the game is, the more long term damage you do to the playerbase. Without a constant influx of new players replacing older players and keeping things fresh, the game would once again die a slow death.

In my opinion, Relics are a transition system. It is not going to be as powerful as a new rarity will be. It doesn't replace whatever has to come next. But it can squeeze more life out of 6* champions, so the inevitable day when the devs will have to confront the same decision they had with 6* champs gets pushed out a little longer, and progression is allowed to continue upward for a little longer before something else comes along to upset the apple cart again.
They can simply add rank 6 or even rank 7 to 6*s, if they want to squeeze more out of them and delay 7*s introduction.
Relics seem like the riskiest decision to do that transition.
Changing the core of the contest, despite that is already successful as it is, might turn to a v.12 situation.
I personally not looking forward to relics, cause I’m concerned if the game I loved playing for so many years, will turn to something different.
Hope it’s not...
How are relics any different than boosts we currently have? We had Act specific boosts for act 6, we have war boosts and we have general boosts.

Relics/gear only enhance a champions attributes so how's that any different than popping 30% attack/health boosts?
Because those “gears” are going to end up in a 300 unit Crystal where you have a chance to get a 3-6* equipment.
That would be awesome if it happens. Because that will make it accessible to F2P players.
That's like saying that Cav crystals are awesome because they're accessible to f2p players. Technically true, but extremely inaccessible in practice.

300 unit crystals are one of the lowest value items in the game and any f2p player that has to carefully manage their inventory avoids them like the plague. Crystals are designed for massively repeated, bulk, 1-click unit buyers, not for f2p grinders.

Actually, I used to spend the units I grinded out of arena on Cav crystals, before I started spending them on the Cav completion bundle. Depending on where you are in the game, they had decent value. They have even better value now.

What matters is not what it costs, but what you get in return. The current Cav crystals cost 175 units for Thronebreaker players and have a 3% chance to drop a 6* champ and a 16% chance to drop a 5* champ. Assuming the 5* drop earns you at least 275 6* shards for a single dup, that means the average Cav crystal contains the equivalent of 3% * 10000 + 16% * 275 = 344 6* shards. It therefore takes, on average, about 29 Cav crystals to gain a 6* champion, or about 5087 units.

That's not amazing value, but it is not bad, and that doesn't count any of the other drops, or the ISO or gold that come with champion duplication. I switched from Cav crystals to the Cav completion bundle because it simply has higher value.

I know a lot of people thought Cav crystals had horrible value, and if you're spending cash they do. But if you're an arena grinder, and you're looking for places to spend those units, Cav crystals were/are a pretty good deal. Not the best value overall, but not bad I did the math, and found the arguments against them unconvincing.

DNA3000 · May 2021

Wongo said:

DNA3000 said:

Wongo said:

Demonzfyre said:

Greekhit said:

DNA3000 said:

Mauled said:
I mean the game model is hugely successful and I dunno why they’d risk changing it. RuneScape did something very similar to their combat system nigh on 10 years ago and it virtually killed the game to the point that 2 years later they reintroduced a legacy version of the game which is more popular than the ‘live’ game.

People who want a different core system play a different game.
This is the million dollar question. And the answer is that the playerbase is divided on post 6* advancement. Some players have no problem with introducing 7* champions and rebooting roster progress again. Some would rather have a system that builds upon 6* champs. Some would rather not even do anything at all, and just have roster progress end (in the upward direction) with 6* r5.

First things first. The last one is impossible. Period end of story, if that's a deal breaker for you, might as well quit now. The game will always have at least one high end pursuit goal. Progress ends when the dev team moves on to something else and puts the game in maintenance mode to die a slow death.

Both of the actual post 6* progress options have problems. Rebooting progress with 7* champs can cause a feeling that all prior investment has been lost, which weakens engagement in the game. Of course, *all* progress hasn't been lost because even with 6* champs it was obviously the players with the largest and most powerful 5* rosters that were in the best position to build 6* rosters, but this was still an issue. In my opinion, not as big an issue as some made it out to be, but it is true that this disengagement can get worse over time if it happens repeatedly.

Building on 6* champs also has problems, namely it can create a sense among newer players that progression is hopeless, because there is no way to even begin to approach the top players in the game. I'm not talking about the top 1% of 1% of mega whales with the 4 million rating roster, I'm talking about even players like me with the 2.4 million roster. The game can't accelerate new players getting 6* champs faster to accelerate them towards veterans like me, because that will also accelerate me. The less approachable the game is, the more long term damage you do to the playerbase. Without a constant influx of new players replacing older players and keeping things fresh, the game would once again die a slow death.

In my opinion, Relics are a transition system. It is not going to be as powerful as a new rarity will be. It doesn't replace whatever has to come next. But it can squeeze more life out of 6* champions, so the inevitable day when the devs will have to confront the same decision they had with 6* champs gets pushed out a little longer, and progression is allowed to continue upward for a little longer before something else comes along to upset the apple cart again.
They can simply add rank 6 or even rank 7 to 6*s, if they want to squeeze more out of them and delay 7*s introduction.
Relics seem like the riskiest decision to do that transition.
Changing the core of the contest, despite that is already successful as it is, might turn to a v.12 situation.
I personally not looking forward to relics, cause I’m concerned if the game I loved playing for so many years, will turn to something different.
Hope it’s not...
How are relics any different than boosts we currently have? We had Act specific boosts for act 6, we have war boosts and we have general boosts.

Relics/gear only enhance a champions attributes so how's that any different than popping 30% attack/health boosts?
Because those “gears” are going to end up in a 300 unit Crystal where you have a chance to get a 3-6* equipment.
That would be awesome if it happens. Because that will make it accessible to F2P players.
Wongo said:
And going off by how horrible Realm of champions gear pieces are (go watch Seatins video) and knowing how incompetent kabam is so they will copy pasta this over. The gear you get from said crystal will have randomized sub stats. So even if you get lucky and get a 6* gear piece. If you got **** rolls you better open up some more gear crystals.
Relics aren't going to work the way Realm of Champions gear works. As described in the dev diary, a Relic functions more like a "framework" of buffs, and individual buffs are "slotted" into the Relic to activate them. And the buffs (at least initially) appear to be on the order of (lower strength) masteries.

So the Relic system, at least initially, is going to function more like champion-specific masteries. You equip a Relic, and that Relic contains a number of "mastery slots." Then you collect "mastery nodes" and slot them into the Relic.

The exception to this seems to be the top tier Relic stuff which is Strikers. Between what the devs originally stated about Strikers and what they are saying now in the dev diary, Strikers seem to be a special kind of Relic node that you have to hunt for, and you probably need a high tier Relic capable of housing it applied to a champion to use it. It is probably meant to be the top tier pursuit goal for the whales and hard core grinders to chase. And there's always going to be such a thing everywhere in the game, whether it is Relics or something else.

None of this looks remotely like the Realm of Champions gear system, which is a much more conventional gear system that is tied to the core stats of the playable entities. In other words, without the top tier gear, your champion simply isn't competitive in the game. Relics seems to be the difference between someone with an optimized mastery tree and someone that has haphazard masteries. A noteworthy difference, but not the difference between competitive and worthless.

Strikers are the wild card unknowable in all of this. But those top tier chasers have to chase something, and if it is not strikers then it will be something like 7* champs. You can pick your poison there, but you can't eliminate it. In this game, the top chasers will always have something to chase, and it is always going to be something that offers some significant advantage in the game. Strikers don't seem to be any more problematic than anything else.
If the poison you speak of is 7* or a convoluted gear system which will become another unit crystal drain. I'll take the 7*s. I'm playing this game cuz of the hero collecting and using aspect not what optimal jewelry should I put on my 900 Ironmans. Or i'd be playing a MMO if i cared so much about gear and doing high dmg on some dps meter.

Now all you have to do is convince everyone else. Good luck.

cookiedealer · May 2021

As long as these relics have small impacts, and aren't difficult to acquire/behind a pay wall, this could add strategy to the game.

I am currently indifferent to relics, but I'd rather they add things to do/pursue/new modes/gameplay/features/masteries than to let the game grow staler.

DNA3000 · May 2021

butter_ball20 said:
The only f2p grinders who could afford Relic crystals are the retired or super casual ones! The one's who might actually need can't afford it

I think that's not the right way to look at it. The ones who need relics *will* chase them. That's what "need" means. A lot of people say Alliance War, especially at tier 1, is unaffordable. But they do it anyway: they figure out a way.

Relics are a kind of roster progress system. Those who need it will figure out a way to chase after it, whether they are F2P or not. But "need" is almost irrelevant. There are those that say R3s aren't "needed" in the game, and they are mostly right: there's nothing I can do with R3s that I can't do with R2s. But I still have them. Most of the people who have them don't "need" them in some absolute sense. We all get them, because they are the next thing, and we all play a progression game. Progress *is* the game. Whatever is next, is what we chase.

The chase will affect different players differently. For example, as you hint at, some people chase prestige, and burn sig stones in the pursuit of prestige. Some don't, and for them sig stones are more of a power thing: they place them into the champs that best benefit from them. But we all ultimately sig up champs. Relics will probably be the same: some will chase them as a min/max option towards prestige or alliance war. Some will chase them just to add cool features to their favorite champs. But most of us will ultimately chase them, in at least some form, simply because they are what's next. Need will factor into how we chase them, but not if we chase them.

And that's perfectly fine. Anything that gives the strongest chasers something to chase hard, that everyone else can accept at their own pace, is generally good for the game.

DNA3000 · May 2021

Wongo said:
Pretty sure you’re going to have to convince everyone more to be cool with relics than me and 7*s but thanks I guess?

Pretty sure I don't, since relics are coming regardless. The burden is on people trying to convince the devs not to add them to the game. And that's an extremely high burden for two reasons. First, the devs aren't coming to your house and discussing the system with you. So you can't argue specifics: anything you say here the devs can just think "well, we're not doing that." And that would be the end of the argument, so that's unwinnable. The alternative is to convince so many players that it is a bad idea that they would be forced to acknowledge the problem. The problem here is the doomsayers have cried wolf so many times they have burned up all their credibility. They said 6* champs would be the ruin of the game. It wasn't. They said diminishing returns would be the ruin of the game. It wasn't. Try even *saying* the word boycott either here or on the Reddit, and see how long it takes to get laughed off the stage.

A logical reasoned argument can't win if the other side isn't present and you don't know what their arguments even are. A player protest is only going to work if it is virtually universal, and that requires convincing a ton of people to get off the fence. All I want is to see the system launched and examine its details, and offer feedback on how it could be steered in the best possible direction. All I have to do to make that happen is nothing. I don't need luck.

GroundedWisdom · May 2021

DNA3000 said:

Wongo said:

DNA3000 said:

Wongo said:

Demonzfyre said:

Greekhit said:

DNA3000 said:

Mauled said:
I mean the game model is hugely successful and I dunno why they’d risk changing it. RuneScape did something very similar to their combat system nigh on 10 years ago and it virtually killed the game to the point that 2 years later they reintroduced a legacy version of the game which is more popular than the ‘live’ game.

People who want a different core system play a different game.
This is the million dollar question. And the answer is that the playerbase is divided on post 6* advancement. Some players have no problem with introducing 7* champions and rebooting roster progress again. Some would rather have a system that builds upon 6* champs. Some would rather not even do anything at all, and just have roster progress end (in the upward direction) with 6* r5.

First things first. The last one is impossible. Period end of story, if that's a deal breaker for you, might as well quit now. The game will always have at least one high end pursuit goal. Progress ends when the dev team moves on to something else and puts the game in maintenance mode to die a slow death.

Both of the actual post 6* progress options have problems. Rebooting progress with 7* champs can cause a feeling that all prior investment has been lost, which weakens engagement in the game. Of course, *all* progress hasn't been lost because even with 6* champs it was obviously the players with the largest and most powerful 5* rosters that were in the best position to build 6* rosters, but this was still an issue. In my opinion, not as big an issue as some made it out to be, but it is true that this disengagement can get worse over time if it happens repeatedly.

Building on 6* champs also has problems, namely it can create a sense among newer players that progression is hopeless, because there is no way to even begin to approach the top players in the game. I'm not talking about the top 1% of 1% of mega whales with the 4 million rating roster, I'm talking about even players like me with the 2.4 million roster. The game can't accelerate new players getting 6* champs faster to accelerate them towards veterans like me, because that will also accelerate me. The less approachable the game is, the more long term damage you do to the playerbase. Without a constant influx of new players replacing older players and keeping things fresh, the game would once again die a slow death.

In my opinion, Relics are a transition system. It is not going to be as powerful as a new rarity will be. It doesn't replace whatever has to come next. But it can squeeze more life out of 6* champions, so the inevitable day when the devs will have to confront the same decision they had with 6* champs gets pushed out a little longer, and progression is allowed to continue upward for a little longer before something else comes along to upset the apple cart again.
They can simply add rank 6 or even rank 7 to 6*s, if they want to squeeze more out of them and delay 7*s introduction.
Relics seem like the riskiest decision to do that transition.
Changing the core of the contest, despite that is already successful as it is, might turn to a v.12 situation.
I personally not looking forward to relics, cause I’m concerned if the game I loved playing for so many years, will turn to something different.
Hope it’s not...
How are relics any different than boosts we currently have? We had Act specific boosts for act 6, we have war boosts and we have general boosts.

Relics/gear only enhance a champions attributes so how's that any different than popping 30% attack/health boosts?
Because those “gears” are going to end up in a 300 unit Crystal where you have a chance to get a 3-6* equipment.
That would be awesome if it happens. Because that will make it accessible to F2P players.
Wongo said:
And going off by how horrible Realm of champions gear pieces are (go watch Seatins video) and knowing how incompetent kabam is so they will copy pasta this over. The gear you get from said crystal will have randomized sub stats. So even if you get lucky and get a 6* gear piece. If you got **** rolls you better open up some more gear crystals.
Relics aren't going to work the way Realm of Champions gear works. As described in the dev diary, a Relic functions more like a "framework" of buffs, and individual buffs are "slotted" into the Relic to activate them. And the buffs (at least initially) appear to be on the order of (lower strength) masteries.

So the Relic system, at least initially, is going to function more like champion-specific masteries. You equip a Relic, and that Relic contains a number of "mastery slots." Then you collect "mastery nodes" and slot them into the Relic.

The exception to this seems to be the top tier Relic stuff which is Strikers. Between what the devs originally stated about Strikers and what they are saying now in the dev diary, Strikers seem to be a special kind of Relic node that you have to hunt for, and you probably need a high tier Relic capable of housing it applied to a champion to use it. It is probably meant to be the top tier pursuit goal for the whales and hard core grinders to chase. And there's always going to be such a thing everywhere in the game, whether it is Relics or something else.

None of this looks remotely like the Realm of Champions gear system, which is a much more conventional gear system that is tied to the core stats of the playable entities. In other words, without the top tier gear, your champion simply isn't competitive in the game. Relics seems to be the difference between someone with an optimized mastery tree and someone that has haphazard masteries. A noteworthy difference, but not the difference between competitive and worthless.

Strikers are the wild card unknowable in all of this. But those top tier chasers have to chase something, and if it is not strikers then it will be something like 7* champs. You can pick your poison there, but you can't eliminate it. In this game, the top chasers will always have something to chase, and it is always going to be something that offers some significant advantage in the game. Strikers don't seem to be any more problematic than anything else.
If the poison you speak of is 7* or a convoluted gear system which will become another unit crystal drain. I'll take the 7*s. I'm playing this game cuz of the hero collecting and using aspect not what optimal jewelry should I put on my 900 Ironmans. Or i'd be playing a MMO if i cared so much about gear and doing high dmg on some dps meter.
Now all you have to do is convince everyone else. Good luck.

That's my fear. If the game stops adding Rarities and moves in the direction of a gear system, it's not going to bode well. I'm not usually one to catastrophize, but I can't see that ending well.

GroundedWisdom · May 2021

Then again, that's projecting on my part. I'm still adopting and wait-and-see attitude.

GroundedWisdom · May 2021

I think people SAY they don't want 7*s, but what they actually want is a Roster to rest on, and that spells death for this game.

The_Sentry06 · May 2021

Tbh, relics actually has a lot of potential. It all depends on how Kabam choose to implement it. There are many successful games with a good gear system too.

We need more info to judge it properly.

Xva23 · May 2021

Relics would be cool if they were like equippable incursion hacks, but just one per champ. Also, I wouldn't mind it one bit if it was not allowed in Alliance content. If it's just questing, I'm OK with it. But that's just my opinion

firemoon712 · May 2021

SkyLord7000 said:
Relics will be fine as long as:

1. One relic too a champ (think this was stated in the roadmap)
2. Stays in the new mode till people are comfortable with it.

The devs are bouncing around with Ideas and it seems like a fun way to mix up the contest. I saw a comment saying “It’s a double edged sword” (unsure who said it). Seems right that it can backfire which is fine as long as it stays to one Game mode. If it doesn’t and people like it, it could be a really fun aspect to the game!

I wouldn't mind using relics(especially strikers) in Story mode, Event Quests, and arena. But I really think relics should stay out of AW, just for the sake of everyone's sanity.
Also, just the thought of using Elsa's SP2 and Doom's SP2 at the same time has me jumping in hype.

At the same time, Injustice 2 has relics and not only are they next to impossible to get but from what I've seen, they're pointless.

Terra · May 2021

I'm personally holding out of my opinion on them. Highly dependant if they are restricted to normal questing or allowed in AW/AQ (AW specially) can sour that view of them.
Not looking forward to them, but not damning them yet either. Just hope Kabam learns from their mistakes and makes the gear system properly.

Why Relics Aren’t as Bad as You Might Think!!

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