Can we FINALLY nerf Ghost and Quake?

thehamtheham Member Posts: 186 ★★
edited July 2021 in Suggestions and Requests
And promise to never make another broken champ like them again?

I have both and know how to use them but their downstream affects are terrible. The devs can't even make proper content without affecting other attackers and the game in general.

Not saying this stuff lightly but get rid of them, they're terrible for the game!
Post edited by Kabam Zibiit on
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Comments

  • ChaosMax1012ChaosMax1012 Member Posts: 3,113 ★★★★★
    No need to nerf them. True focus is basically the no ghost or quake zone.
  • KnightZeroKnightZero Member Posts: 1,450 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    No. They don't need to be nerfed. Just figure out a tag system to eliminate them from boss island in war. I don't care what people use for story content. War is different.

    I suspect the top tier alliances would prefer something like a ban system on attackers and defenders to let them decide which champs are too valuable in the current meta, so that can change over time.

    Below the top tier of competition, I'm pretty sure nobody cares at all who uses what where: most lower tier players are just happy to beat the map without mortgaging their house, and don't care too much if the opponent does likewise.
    Yup. 100% agree with this. P3 alliance, I honestly don't care who is used and if Quake is broken. We've faced Alliances that had a ton of Wuakers and lost, but who cares. It lets us take troublesome nodes without dumping items for our decent bit not gamebreaking rewards.
  • MrInsanityMrInsanity Member Posts: 1,539 ★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    No. They don't need to be nerfed. Just figure out a tag system to eliminate them from boss island in war. I don't care what people use for story content. War is different.

    I suspect the top tier alliances would prefer something like a ban system on attackers and defenders to let them decide which champs are too valuable in the current meta, so that can change over time.

    Below the top tier of competition, I'm pretty sure nobody cares at all who uses what where: most lower tier players are just happy to beat the map without mortgaging their house, and don't care too much if the opponent does likewise.
    I feel like pretty much all the same champions would be banned. Or at least I know for a fact Quake and Ghost will always be banned.
  • xNigxNig Member Posts: 7,330 ★★★★★
    edited July 2021
    DNA3000 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    No. They don't need to be nerfed. Just figure out a tag system to eliminate them from boss island in war. I don't care what people use for story content. War is different.

    I suspect the top tier alliances would prefer something like a ban system on attackers and defenders to let them decide which champs are too valuable in the current meta, so that can change over time.

    Below the top tier of competition, I'm pretty sure nobody cares at all who uses what where: most lower tier players are just happy to beat the map without mortgaging their house, and don't care too much if the opponent does likewise.
    Why not just introduce a ban system for tiers 1/2 that allows them to ban up to 3 or 5 champs from being used for attack, similar to the Summoner Showndown later rounds?

    (I mentioned 5 because Quake and Ghost will always be on the list, which leaves 3 more slots to be banned.)
  • Malreck04Malreck04 Member Posts: 3,324 ★★★★★
    Balancing champs is unnecessary in any non-competitive game/gamemode. In single player modes, you can use whoever you want. If you don't want to see ghost/quake, don't rank them up. The only comp mode is alliance war, and putting true focus on the boss node/some minibosses would be a direct way of blocking them out, but I don't see the point because there are many good quakers/ghosters these days, many. Kabam has the power to control ghost and quake usage, they have shown us that with Summer of Pain.
  • Malreck04Malreck04 Member Posts: 3,324 ★★★★★
    Malreck04 said:

    Balancing champs is unnecessary in any non-competitive game/gamemode. In single player modes, you can use whoever you want. If you don't want to see ghost/quake, don't rank them up. The only comp mode is alliance war, and putting true focus on the boss node/some minibosses would be a direct way of blocking them out, but I don't see the point because there are many good quakers/ghosters these days, many. Kabam has the power to control ghost and quake usage, they have shown us that with Summer of Pain.

    I just realised that kabam have put true focus on boss island for next season.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,677 Guardian
    xNig said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    No. They don't need to be nerfed. Just figure out a tag system to eliminate them from boss island in war. I don't care what people use for story content. War is different.

    I suspect the top tier alliances would prefer something like a ban system on attackers and defenders to let them decide which champs are too valuable in the current meta, so that can change over time.

    Below the top tier of competition, I'm pretty sure nobody cares at all who uses what where: most lower tier players are just happy to beat the map without mortgaging their house, and don't care too much if the opponent does likewise.
    Why not just introduce a ban system for tiers 1/2 that allows them to ban up to 3 or 5 champs from being used for attack, similar to the Summoner Showndown later rounds?

    (I mentioned 5 because Quake and Ghost will always be on the list, which leaves 3 more slots to be banned.)
    We should probably go even farther and seat the top X alliances into a tournament to settle the masters bracket (maybe expanded to include a chunk of P1). In the tournament you can have all kinds of competitive rules specific to the alliances that are seated in it without impacting alliance war for the alliances that aren't interested in that kind of hyper competitive (for this game) environment.

    In particular, you can solve two problems simultaneously. The first is repeat match ups. In a tournament, no one gets repeat match ups (except for consolation/placement brackets). The second is ratings dumping. In tiered random match ups there's an advantage to ratings dumping. In a tournament that advantage can be eliminated using traditional best meets worst bracket seating. If #64 has to fight #1, there's no real benefit to ratings manipulation. In a tournament, higher rating offers an advantage in seating (in general). But everyone would eventually have to get past everyone else.
  • SkyLord7000SkyLord7000 Member Posts: 4,000 ★★★★★
    If you are gonna nerf quake/ghost don’t do it through true focus.

    Elsa sad 😢
  • KnightZeroKnightZero Member Posts: 1,450 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    xNig said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    No. They don't need to be nerfed. Just figure out a tag system to eliminate them from boss island in war. I don't care what people use for story content. War is different.

    I suspect the top tier alliances would prefer something like a ban system on attackers and defenders to let them decide which champs are too valuable in the current meta, so that can change over time.

    Below the top tier of competition, I'm pretty sure nobody cares at all who uses what where: most lower tier players are just happy to beat the map without mortgaging their house, and don't care too much if the opponent does likewise.
    Why not just introduce a ban system for tiers 1/2 that allows them to ban up to 3 or 5 champs from being used for attack, similar to the Summoner Showndown later rounds?

    (I mentioned 5 because Quake and Ghost will always be on the list, which leaves 3 more slots to be banned.)
    We should probably go even farther and seat the top X alliances into a tournament to settle the masters bracket (maybe expanded to include a chunk of P1). In the tournament you can have all kinds of competitive rules specific to the alliances that are seated in it without impacting alliance war for the alliances that aren't interested in that kind of hyper competitive (for this game) environment.

    In particular, you can solve two problems simultaneously. The first is repeat match ups. In a tournament, no one gets repeat match ups (except for consolation/placement brackets). The second is ratings dumping. In tiered random match ups there's an advantage to ratings dumping. In a tournament that advantage can be eliminated using traditional best meets worst bracket seating. If #64 has to fight #1, there's no real benefit to ratings manipulation. In a tournament, higher rating offers an advantage in seating (in general). But everyone would eventually have to get past everyone else.
    Prefer something like this. Or some kind of a split. Because there are chill alliances, alliances that want to be competitive but not over the top, and then the hyper competitive top alliances. Changes to make stuff more balanced/easier for the lower two makes it too easy for the top, changes to make it more fun for the top make it more annoying for the others.
    I don't understand the tie system workaround anyways. Because it still keeps the pressure of low deaths, but now makes it such that you want to finish each fight as fast as possible.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Member Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    StevieManWonder said:

    Worknprogress said:

    ChaosMax1012 said:


    And no, for reasons like this you can’t simply delete them.

    You definitely can. I have a R3 Ghost I used my Abyss generic on. Never use her anymore but as long as broken champs exist in the game, you need to have them to remain competetive since the devs can't balance around them to save their lives. Refund those resources and move on. Things like ruining other champs that are balanced to lazily deal with broken ones bc you're too scared to upset the cry babies is ridiculous.

    Sometimes unpleasant decisions have to be made. Don't dance around the issues they created and actually address them.
    If they straight up remove Ghost and Quake, not only should they give us all our resources back, but I really don’t think it’d be asking too much to get a legit champion selector instead of giving us a 5/6 six star crystal back.
    It's a moot point as they aren't going to remove them or alter them at this point bc this playerbase overreacts to absolutely everything. What they did though was about the laziest way they could have attempted to do something that also has a ton of collateral damage.
  • Avengers320Avengers320 Member Posts: 684 ★★★
    They already said they will not directly nerf champions anymore (unless it's a bug)
  • StevieManWonderStevieManWonder Member Posts: 5,019 ★★★★★
    Worknprogress said:

    StevieManWonder said:

    Worknprogress said:

    ChaosMax1012 said:


    And no, for reasons like this you can’t simply delete them.

    You definitely can. I have a R3 Ghost I used my Abyss generic on. Never use her anymore but as long as broken champs exist in the game, you need to have them to remain competetive since the devs can't balance around them to save their lives. Refund those resources and move on. Things like ruining other champs that are balanced to lazily deal with broken ones bc you're too scared to upset the cry babies is ridiculous.

    Sometimes unpleasant decisions have to be made. Don't dance around the issues they created and actually address them.
    If they straight up remove Ghost and Quake, not only should they give us all our resources back, but I really don’t think it’d be asking too much to get a legit champion selector instead of giving us a 5/6 six star crystal back.
    It's a moot point as they aren't going to remove them or alter them at this point bc this playerbase overreacts to absolutely everything. What they did though was about the laziest way they could have attempted to do something that also has a ton of collateral damage.
    Fair point.
    The change is terrible
  • shinchan2810shinchan2810 Member Posts: 23 ★
    theham said:

    And promise to never make another broken champ like them again?

    I have both and know how to use them but their downstream affects are terrible. The devs can't even make proper content without affecting other attackers and the game in general.

    Not saying this stuff lightly but get rid of them, they're terrible for the game!

    theham said:

    And promise to never make another broken champ like them again?

    I have both and know how to use them but their downstream affects are terrible. The devs can't even make proper content without affecting other attackers and the game in general.

    Not saying this stuff lightly but get rid of them, they're terrible for the game!

    So you're saying that kabam should take away both your ghost and quake.....nice suggestion hope Miike finds this in the best of health 🌝😂
  • shinchan2810shinchan2810 Member Posts: 23 ★
    theham said:

    Matthew950 said:

    Troll

    I have both and Ghost's at r3. I'm just tired of the devs tip toeing around them, man.
    No ghoster or Quaker would want their best champ to be nerfed it's illogical to say this and beyond understanding 😂.....so no meaning of this thread bbye
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • MordMord Member Posts: 147 ★★
    As some other pointed out, it would be better if these attacker bans are left to the players and not forced on them. After all it takes away an important piece of strategy. This way feels... artificial.

    Now, high tier players please correct me if I'm completely wrong, but nowadays I don't see quake everywhere as the main science attacker, or ghost as the most used tech in war. I do see lots of Torchs and Warlocks though. And army's of Dooms too. I can see cases where it might be more beneficial to ban Torch or some other top option instead.
  • KerneasKerneas Member Posts: 3,826 ★★★★★
    Too many items and too much money was spent on those champs by players. Nerfing them would sink the game.

    Also, it is up to players to decide to (not) play these champs. I for example have 2x dupped 5* Quake and she sits at 1/25 because I dislike her playstyle and don't wanna ruin the game to myself. Simple as that.
  • PulyamanPulyaman Member Posts: 2,365 ★★★★★
    Kerneas said:

    Too many items and too much money was spent on those champs by players. Nerfing them would sink the game.

    Also, it is up to players to decide to (not) play these champs. I for example have 2x dupped 5* Quake and she sits at 1/25 because I dislike her playstyle and don't wanna ruin the game to myself. Simple as that.

    I agree to a point. Nerfing them is not going to sink the game. Players decide who to play with and like me, many can choose not to play with ghost and quake. I also don't like quakes playstyle. There is a problem in designing content which kabam are facing. Whenever a difficult content comes out, we see people simply using these two champs and not even touching other champs. In trying to eliminate that, kabam have had to come up with more nodes that eliminate these two specifically. Problam is that they affect other champs too. So, Nerfing them is not that bad if an idea. Force people to learn other champs too. 😜
  • FiiNCHFiiNCH Member Posts: 1,671 ★★★★★
    Worknprogress said:

    ChaosMax1012 said:


    And no, for reasons like this you can’t simply delete them.

    You definitely can. I have a R3 Ghost I used my Abyss generic on. Never use her anymore but as long as broken champs exist in the game, you need to have them to remain competetive since the devs can't balance around them to save their lives. Refund those resources and move on. Things like ruining other champs that are balanced to lazily deal with broken ones bc you're too scared to upset the cry babies is ridiculous.

    Sometimes unpleasant decisions have to be made. Don't dance around the issues they created and actually address them.
    Such a terrible opinion, you can’t just delete champs from the game..
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Member Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    FiiNCH said:

    Worknprogress said:

    ChaosMax1012 said:


    And no, for reasons like this you can’t simply delete them.

    You definitely can. I have a R3 Ghost I used my Abyss generic on. Never use her anymore but as long as broken champs exist in the game, you need to have them to remain competetive since the devs can't balance around them to save their lives. Refund those resources and move on. Things like ruining other champs that are balanced to lazily deal with broken ones bc you're too scared to upset the cry babies is ridiculous.

    Sometimes unpleasant decisions have to be made. Don't dance around the issues they created and actually address them.
    Such a terrible opinion, you can’t just delete champs from the game..
    Sure you can. You could also nerf them to get them in line with game balance. There's absolutely nothing that says you can't do either of those things.

    Players of this game just have huge tendencies to do a bunch of mental gymnastics to justify that if something is "good for them" it has to also be good for the game when that just isn't true though.

    Again though, neither of those things is going to happen bc Kabam has gone full send on catering to complaining about everything they do instead of doing what they need to to fix their own game unfortunately. Instead they decided to do a complete hatchet job in half heatedly addressing a balance issue instead of directly doing something about a problem
  • FiiNCHFiiNCH Member Posts: 1,671 ★★★★★
    Worknprogress said:

    FiiNCH said:

    Worknprogress said:

    ChaosMax1012 said:


    And no, for reasons like this you can’t simply delete them.

    You definitely can. I have a R3 Ghost I used my Abyss generic on. Never use her anymore but as long as broken champs exist in the game, you need to have them to remain competetive since the devs can't balance around them to save their lives. Refund those resources and move on. Things like ruining other champs that are balanced to lazily deal with broken ones bc you're too scared to upset the cry babies is ridiculous.

    Sometimes unpleasant decisions have to be made. Don't dance around the issues they created and actually address them.
    Such a terrible opinion, you can’t just delete champs from the game..
    Sure you can. You could also nerf them to get them in line with game balance. There's absolutely nothing that says you can't do either of those things.

    Players of this game just have huge tendencies to do a bunch of mental gymnastics to justify that if something is "good for them" it has to also be good for the game when that just isn't true though.

    Again though, neither of those things is going to happen bc Kabam has gone full send on catering to complaining about everything they do instead of doing what they need to to fix their own game unfortunately. Instead they decided to do a complete hatchet job in half heatedly addressing a balance issue instead of directly doing something about a problem
    I mean I agree with most of what you’ve said tbh, just not the deleting champs part.

    I can’t see Kabam ever touching them, they’ll just continue to restrict them in future content though nodes.

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