Bait and switch. All crystals since April 8 are supposed to be buffed. Kabam should make it right. Submit a ticket. If they don't, take it up with the correct OS store, but give Kabam a little time to respond.
I'm not sure why you would specifically go out of your way to post a picture that directly hurts your cause. The picture shows that Kabam explicitly named two types of crystals that would be buffed: the generic and the featured. They specifically did not name the nexus Cavalier crystal.
Also, I wish people would use the term "bait and switch" correctly. Bait and switch is when a company advertises one thing to entice customers, then tries to convince those customers to buy something else instead.
Also, the nexus Cav crystals actually conforms to Apple's requirements on displaying drop odds before purchase. You'd be asking Apple to take action against one of its app developers for doing exactly what they were told to do. You're not saying they failed to disclose the odds, you're saying the app developer owes you a very specific set of odds you believe they promised you, by quoting a message that actually goes out of its way to specifically not do that.
Right but a Cavalier crystal should have the same odds as a cavalier nexus crystal. The only difference should be that one is a nexus, and one is not. It is still a cavalier crystal. So why would it have different odds? Every nexus crystal has the same odds as its non-nexus counterpart, including PHC. This shouldn't be that difficult to understand.
You're willing to make that assumption when it works in your favor. Are you willing to make it when it operates counter to your interests?
I'm honestly not sure if the odds are an error or not, but when I looked at the crystal I thought there were two possibilities: one: the odds were an error and were intended to be updated, and two: the odds were correct and the nexus crystal was actually intended to give players exactly what they've asked for, just using different technology.
Here's some math. Suppose we assume that in general, players will always pick the highest rarity that shows up, or pick from that highest rarity if multiple champs of the same rarity show up. If we make this assumption, we can calculate the odds of pulling each rarity from the crystal, starting from the base odds (and assuming nexus drops equal their rarity) of 1%, 11%, 38%, 50%. We get:
6* 2.97% 5* 28.88% 4* 55.64% 3* 12.5%
Compare this to the current basic Cav:
6* 3% 5* 16% 4* 31% 3* 50%
The Nexus Cav is basically an improved version of the Basic Cav where the odds of 3* pulls is dramatically lowered and the odds of 4* and 5* are dramatically increased. Granted the odds of pulling a 6* champ are marginally lower, but that difference is all but negligable. This is basically what people have been asking for Cav crystals to move towards. If they actually made a Cav+ crystal with those odds, I suspect people would love them.
Now, the question is whether Kabam *intended* to do this. I have no idea. It seems to me to be a basically 50/50 proposition that either someone at Kabam got clever but didn't feel they needed to explain that cleverness, or made an error and intended to release a mega Cav nexus but didn't update the odds.
For the record, if the Nexus actually did obey the current basic drop odds for each Nexus pull, this is what the equivalent expected drop rate would be:
6* 8.73% 5* 38.12% 4* 40.64% 3* 12.5%
That seems awfully high, but not so high so as to be obviously ridiculous. So I think both possibilities are not beyond the realm of possibility.
But you expect the average summoner to do that prior to purchase? A bit out of the realm of possibility as well.
Didn’t know someone had to give a deep dive into the logic… oh wait we didn’t get one only the potential for a nexus which has always been 3x the rates essentially. So as illogical as it may seem not impossible
All I am saying is I guess I will have to check the drop rates of every crystal I go to purchase more closely. A cavalier nexus crystal is still a cavalier crystal. The only difference is there is a choice it basically takes three Cav spins and let's you choose from them that's all. So the drop rates should technically be what the are in the everyday Cav crystal now. But it is possible that since it was worded as a "Cavalier Nexus Crystal" in the card and we have never seen a post actually confirming that the drop rates were the same for those as a regular Cavalier Crystal that Kabam won't be liable to fix anything. Because technically it's not a mistake if it was never stated prior that the drop rates were the same and I bought the offer so I'm just as upset as most. It's frustrating getting eight 3*, one 4*, and one 5* from 10 "Updated Cav Crystals". But I'm guilty just like most of just assuming that Kabam would do the normal thing and make the rates identical. Kabam never does things as intended but yet here we all are spending hard earned dollar after dollar going through the same problems just different aspects of it every month. So if I'm Kabam I'm going to keep shoveling us whatever they want to because until we either get smarter or become more united things aren't going to change.
I'm honestly not sure if the odds are an error or not, but when I looked at the crystal I thought there were two possibilities: one: the odds were an error and were intended to be updated, and two: the odds were correct and the nexus crystal was actually intended to give players exactly what they've asked for, just using different technology.
Here's some math. Suppose we assume that in general, players will always pick the highest rarity that shows up, or pick from that highest rarity if multiple champs of the same rarity show up. If we make this assumption, we can calculate the odds of pulling each rarity from the crystal, starting from the base odds (and assuming nexus drops equal their rarity) of 1%, 11%, 38%, 50%. We get:
6* 2.97% 5* 28.88% 4* 55.64% 3* 12.5%
Compare this to the current basic Cav:
6* 3% 5* 16% 4* 31% 3* 50%
The Nexus Cav is basically an improved version of the Basic Cav where the odds of 3* pulls is dramatically lowered and the odds of 4* and 5* are dramatically increased. Granted the odds of pulling a 6* champ are marginally lower, but that difference is all but negligable. This is basically what people have been asking for Cav crystals to move towards. If they actually made a Cav+ crystal with those odds, I suspect people would love them.
Now, the question is whether Kabam *intended* to do this. I have no idea. It seems to me to be a basically 50/50 proposition that either someone at Kabam got clever but didn't feel they needed to explain that cleverness, or made an error and intended to release a mega Cav nexus but didn't update the odds.
For the record, if the Nexus actually did obey the current basic drop odds for each Nexus pull, this is what the equivalent expected drop rate would be:
6* 8.73% 5* 38.12% 4* 40.64% 3* 12.5%
That seems awfully high, but not so high so as to be obviously ridiculous. So I think both possibilities are not beyond the realm of possibility.
But you expect the average summoner to do that prior to purchase? A bit out of the realm of possibility as well.
I do not expect the average summoner to do that, because if I did I wouldn't bother to post it.
I also don't expect players to check the drop odds with every single crystal they open, although I do. I do believe it is reasonable to expect them to do so for novel crystals, and the Nexus Cav is a novel crystal. Mind you, I don't expect everyone to do that. I specifically stated I believe that would be a reasonable expectation. What I actually expect people to do is to not read the drop odds and then complain about them. Not all players to be sure, just a marginally small but vocal number of them.
I'm honestly not sure if the odds are an error or not, but when I looked at the crystal I thought there were two possibilities: one: the odds were an error and were intended to be updated, and two: the odds were correct and the nexus crystal was actually intended to give players exactly what they've asked for, just using different technology.
Here's some math. Suppose we assume that in general, players will always pick the highest rarity that shows up, or pick from that highest rarity if multiple champs of the same rarity show up. If we make this assumption, we can calculate the odds of pulling each rarity from the crystal, starting from the base odds (and assuming nexus drops equal their rarity) of 1%, 11%, 38%, 50%. We get:
6* 2.97% 5* 28.88% 4* 55.64% 3* 12.5%
Compare this to the current basic Cav:
6* 3% 5* 16% 4* 31% 3* 50%
The Nexus Cav is basically an improved version of the Basic Cav where the odds of 3* pulls is dramatically lowered and the odds of 4* and 5* are dramatically increased. Granted the odds of pulling a 6* champ are marginally lower, but that difference is all but negligable. This is basically what people have been asking for Cav crystals to move towards. If they actually made a Cav+ crystal with those odds, I suspect people would love them.
Now, the question is whether Kabam *intended* to do this. I have no idea. It seems to me to be a basically 50/50 proposition that either someone at Kabam got clever but didn't feel they needed to explain that cleverness, or made an error and intended to release a mega Cav nexus but didn't update the odds.
For the record, if the Nexus actually did obey the current basic drop odds for each Nexus pull, this is what the equivalent expected drop rate would be:
6* 8.73% 5* 38.12% 4* 40.64% 3* 12.5%
That seems awfully high, but not so high so as to be obviously ridiculous. So I think both possibilities are not beyond the realm of possibility.
But they already offered nexus cavs with a 4.5% 6 star drop rate
So when rolled it had a 12.9% chance of rolling atleast 1 6 star. So this isn't so farfetched
Well, yeah. Wouldn't that be a more effective retort to someone claiming a Nexus with updated odds would be farfetched?
I'm honestly not sure if the odds are an error or not, but when I looked at the crystal I thought there were two possibilities: one: the odds were an error and were intended to be updated, and two: the odds were correct and the nexus crystal was actually intended to give players exactly what they've asked for, just using different technology.
Here's some math. Suppose we assume that in general, players will always pick the highest rarity that shows up, or pick from that highest rarity if multiple champs of the same rarity show up. If we make this assumption, we can calculate the odds of pulling each rarity from the crystal, starting from the base odds (and assuming nexus drops equal their rarity) of 1%, 11%, 38%, 50%. We get:
6* 2.97% 5* 28.88% 4* 55.64% 3* 12.5%
Compare this to the current basic Cav:
6* 3% 5* 16% 4* 31% 3* 50%
The Nexus Cav is basically an improved version of the Basic Cav where the odds of 3* pulls is dramatically lowered and the odds of 4* and 5* are dramatically increased. Granted the odds of pulling a 6* champ are marginally lower, but that difference is all but negligable. This is basically what people have been asking for Cav crystals to move towards. If they actually made a Cav+ crystal with those odds, I suspect people would love them.
Now, the question is whether Kabam *intended* to do this. I have no idea. It seems to me to be a basically 50/50 proposition that either someone at Kabam got clever but didn't feel they needed to explain that cleverness, or made an error and intended to release a mega Cav nexus but didn't update the odds.
For the record, if the Nexus actually did obey the current basic drop odds for each Nexus pull, this is what the equivalent expected drop rate would be:
6* 8.73% 5* 38.12% 4* 40.64% 3* 12.5%
That seems awfully high, but not so high so as to be obviously ridiculous. So I think both possibilities are not beyond the realm of possibility.
But they already offered nexus cavs with a 4.5% 6 star drop rate
So when rolled it had a 12.9% chance of rolling atleast 1 6 star. So this isn't so farfetched
Well, yeah. Wouldn't that be a more effective retort to someone claiming a Nexus with updated odds would be farfetched?
They have been saying that is an unreasonable statement for a while as an argumentative point. That it is far fetched and therefore shouldn’t be expected.
I'm honestly not sure if the odds are an error or not, but when I looked at the crystal I thought there were two possibilities: one: the odds were an error and were intended to be updated, and two: the odds were correct and the nexus crystal was actually intended to give players exactly what they've asked for, just using different technology.
Here's some math. Suppose we assume that in general, players will always pick the highest rarity that shows up, or pick from that highest rarity if multiple champs of the same rarity show up. If we make this assumption, we can calculate the odds of pulling each rarity from the crystal, starting from the base odds (and assuming nexus drops equal their rarity) of 1%, 11%, 38%, 50%. We get:
6* 2.97% 5* 28.88% 4* 55.64% 3* 12.5%
Compare this to the current basic Cav:
6* 3% 5* 16% 4* 31% 3* 50%
The Nexus Cav is basically an improved version of the Basic Cav where the odds of 3* pulls is dramatically lowered and the odds of 4* and 5* are dramatically increased. Granted the odds of pulling a 6* champ are marginally lower, but that difference is all but negligable. This is basically what people have been asking for Cav crystals to move towards. If they actually made a Cav+ crystal with those odds, I suspect people would love them.
Now, the question is whether Kabam *intended* to do this. I have no idea. It seems to me to be a basically 50/50 proposition that either someone at Kabam got clever but didn't feel they needed to explain that cleverness, or made an error and intended to release a mega Cav nexus but didn't update the odds.
For the record, if the Nexus actually did obey the current basic drop odds for each Nexus pull, this is what the equivalent expected drop rate would be:
6* 8.73% 5* 38.12% 4* 40.64% 3* 12.5%
That seems awfully high, but not so high so as to be obviously ridiculous. So I think both possibilities are not beyond the realm of possibility.
For once, I actually beat you to doing actual math!
Trust me, I tried to tell them this a day ago. All it got me was 50 pounds of 'disagree's. Didn't get called a troll though. That one's new.
Anyways, he's right. From what I saw, the old Class Cav Nexii didn't conform to the '4.5% per spin' ideal either, making me think the previous nexii were actually the ones calculated wrong. In which case the argument the players currently have vanishes into thin air...
This offer is from before they updated the drop rates
Seatin uploaded this on the 22nd of March and the drop rates got updated in April. So in these crystals the drop rates are the same as a regular crystal
Correct. Video is from March where I grabbed the screen shot. Odds updated in April.
Bait and switch. All crystals since April 8 are supposed to be buffed. Kabam should make it right. Submit a ticket. If they don't, take it up with the correct OS store, but give Kabam a little time to respond.
I'm honestly not sure if the odds are an error or not, but when I looked at the crystal I thought there were two possibilities: one: the odds were an error and were intended to be updated, and two: the odds were correct and the nexus crystal was actually intended to give players exactly what they've asked for, just using different technology.
Here's some math. Suppose we assume that in general, players will always pick the highest rarity that shows up, or pick from that highest rarity if multiple champs of the same rarity show up. If we make this assumption, we can calculate the odds of pulling each rarity from the crystal, starting from the base odds (and assuming nexus drops equal their rarity) of 1%, 11%, 38%, 50%. We get:
6* 2.97% 5* 28.88% 4* 55.64% 3* 12.5%
Compare this to the current basic Cav:
6* 3% 5* 16% 4* 31% 3* 50%
The Nexus Cav is basically an improved version of the Basic Cav where the odds of 3* pulls is dramatically lowered and the odds of 4* and 5* are dramatically increased. Granted the odds of pulling a 6* champ are marginally lower, but that difference is all but negligable. This is basically what people have been asking for Cav crystals to move towards. If they actually made a Cav+ crystal with those odds, I suspect people would love them.
Now, the question is whether Kabam *intended* to do this. I have no idea. It seems to me to be a basically 50/50 proposition that either someone at Kabam got clever but didn't feel they needed to explain that cleverness, or made an error and intended to release a mega Cav nexus but didn't update the odds.
For the record, if the Nexus actually did obey the current basic drop odds for each Nexus pull, this is what the equivalent expected drop rate would be:
6* 8.73% 5* 38.12% 4* 40.64% 3* 12.5%
That seems awfully high, but not so high so as to be obviously ridiculous. So I think both possibilities are not beyond the realm of possibility.
For once, I actually beat you to doing actual math!
Trust me, I tried to tell them this a day ago. All it got me was 50 pounds of 'disagree's. Didn't get called a troll though. That one's new.
Anyways, he's right. From what I saw, the old Class Cav Nexii didn't conform to the '4.5% per spin' ideal either, making me think the previous nexii were actually the ones calculated wrong. In which case the argument the players currently have vanishes into thin air...
I haven't completely caught up with weekend posts yet, as I normally take a break from the forums during the weekend (for sanity purposes). If this is a repeat, my apologies for ninjaing your calculations.
As to the disagrees, 49 is a lot but spread out over that many posts it dilutes the achievement somewhat.
This was obviously a mistake. Kabam should make it right. $50 is some serious money, and I bet a lot of players wouldn't have bought them if they were clearly advertised as the old drop rates.
Bait and switch. All crystals since April 8 are supposed to be buffed. Kabam should make it right. Submit a ticket. If they don't, take it up with the correct OS store, but give Kabam a little time to respond.
I also got this deal and halfway through these nexus crystals, I checked the drop rates because I had only had 3 and 4 stars out of the first 5! I definitely feel misled. If Kabam lowered the rates on purpose, they should have made it more clear. Why raise drop rates and then lower them just for this deal? I feel misled.
Comments
I also don't expect players to check the drop odds with every single crystal they open, although I do. I do believe it is reasonable to expect them to do so for novel crystals, and the Nexus Cav is a novel crystal. Mind you, I don't expect everyone to do that. I specifically stated I believe that would be a reasonable expectation. What I actually expect people to do is to not read the drop odds and then complain about them. Not all players to be sure, just a marginally small but vocal number of them.
Odds taken from a Seatin video.
Trust me, I tried to tell them this a day ago. All it got me was 50 pounds of 'disagree's. Didn't get called a troll though. That one's new.
Anyways, he's right. From what I saw, the old Class Cav Nexii didn't conform to the '4.5% per spin' ideal either, making me think the previous nexii were actually the ones calculated wrong. In which case the argument the players currently have vanishes into thin air...
Correct. Video is from March where I grabbed the screen shot. Odds updated in April.
As to the disagrees, 49 is a lot but spread out over that many posts it dilutes the achievement somewhat.