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Why doesnt Falcon‘s redwing shut down Spider man evade
StarkyTone
Posts: 34 ★
In the new side quest, the spidey boss still evades when Falcon locks on. Why?
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So when a champion has enhanced abilities with 20% increased ability accuracy, falcon can’t reduce it to a 0% chance, due to the way the game calculates percentage chances.
1) it stops the buff/ability from triggering. This is a -100% ability accuracy
2) it stops the ability from having any effect (opponent can’t evade or be unstoppable, as in ignore the impact of a hit). This is a simple on off switch, outside of any ability accuracy reduction.
The first point means that if you have slow applied when the opponent triggers unstoppable it reduces the ability accuracy of that unstoppable and it won’t trigger. But this also means that if the opponent has enhanced abilities then the buff itself can still trigger.
However, this is when the second point kicks in. The effect of the buff is cancelled out by slow, whether or not the opponent has enhanced ability accuracy or not. This means that if an opponent is already unstoppable you can still slow them.
Imagine if only point one was in effect and slow only stopped unstoppable buffs from triggering, you wouldn’t be able to slow someone while they’re unstoppable, because you can’t stop a buff after it’s triggered. So slow has to cancel the effect of the unstoppable too.
So an enemy with enhanced abilities, can still trigger the buff because they ignore the reduction of the first point, but because the impact of the attack isn’t ignored when an opponent is unstoppable, that part of the ability isn’t affected by enhanced abilities.
100-100 = 0
Enhanced abilities
120-100 =/= 0
In this context, there’s two potential meanings for the percent sign: as a (pseudo) unit, and as a multiplicative ratio. The only logical conclusion is that ambiguity must be resolved in context. Someone who doesn’t recognize there’s any ambiguity at all gets an F in basic math.
It's also worth noting that Spider-Man doesn't have a base 100% chance to evade attacks, he has about a 30% chance at max sig. So wouldn't the extra 50% from the node land him at around 80% chance, which Falcon would still counter fully?
It is absolutely possible and within the confines of reality to use percentage as a flat number, or as a pseudo unit as DNA pointed out. So you saying, no it’s not logical, also I don’t believe Kabam when they say it’s not bugged, and also that 120-100 not being 0 doesn’t make sense is pretty much ignoring the context that DNA is referring to.
Nobody is saying that 100% of 120 isn’t 120. We’re saying, in this context, it’s not being used in that way. You can accept that, or continue grumbling any time you use falcon.
It’s about a Night crawler on enhanced ability node.
Here’s the link if you want to read the whole thread:
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/1625156#Comment_1625156
Here’s the comment if you don’t:
“Ability Accuracy is an actual stat, think of it like attack or critical rating. For discussion purposes (the technical details are a bit different) think of it as a base 100%. Nightcrawler has an evade ability that gives him a 22% chance to evade. In fact, the actual chance to activate that ability is the ability's intrinsic ability accuracy multiplied by the champion's ability accuracy stat. By default that's 100%, so the evade chance is 22% x 100% = 22%.
When Falcon locks on, his attacks reduce ability accuracy by 100%. That doesn't touch Nightcrawler's evade ability, it reduces Nightcrawler's ability accuracy stat. So NC goes from 100% AA to 100%-100% = 0% AA (for defensive abilities, which I'm simplifying here for discussion purposes). This should completely shut down his evade, because 22% x 0% = 0%. However, the node NC sits on here has a +20% ability accuracy buff. Now, NC's ability accuracy when Falcon attacks is 100% + 20% - 100% = 20%. His chance to Evade is now 22% x 20% = 4.4%. Low, but not zero.
On top of that, NC's chance to evade attacks increases by 15% when attacks deal physical damage, which I believe (but I'm not 100% certain) means his evade ability accuracy is 37%. Which would make his actual chance to evade here now 37% x 20% = 7.4%.
Finally, after NC uses SP1 his chance to evade increases by 33%. Again, I'm not absolutely certain about this one but I believe this implies his evade ability accuracy increases to 22% + 15% + 37% = 74% against physical attacks after SP1. This means his chance to activate an evade in this situation would now be 74% x 20% = 14.8%.
There's actually been a loading screen message that explains (or at least mentions) how ability accuracy works going back years, but I suspect no one reads those. Also, if you don't believe loading screens, Longshot's design also highlights how ability accuracy works. He doesn't have 100% base ability accuracy, he has 300% base ability accuracy. So when he has, say, a 51% chance to gain Good Karma, that's actually an intrinsic 17% chance to gain Good Karma multiplied by his base 300% ability accuracy to get 51% (that's almost certainly why this chance appears to be a weird number: it isn't weird when you consider Longshot's base 300% AA). If you debuff Longshot's AA by -100%, it doesn't shut him down, it just reduces his AA stat from 300% to 200%, and his chance to gain Good Karma would drop from 51% to 34%. It is almost as if Longshot "resists" ability accuracy debuffs, which was the intent of his design”
100% base + 50% from the node - 100% from lock-on = 50% (0,5).
0.5 x 0.3 (30%) evade chance = 0,15 = 15% remaining evade chance while locked-on?
I think my main problem with this is that it's a lot of math in order to understand if a champ is useful. I also think that it's a valid assumption that -100% ability accuracy would mean that that ability has absolutely no chance of activating under any circumstances. I understand the line of thinking that leads it to not be and I won't argue against its logic, but there's still something deep in my core that retches against the idea that [something]-100% is anything but 0.
If we still have to discuss how it works on the forum 7 years into the game's life, and whip out calculators to find out exactly how much of a chance a 100% reduction to that chance leaves us with, it all just seems like a rather inelegant solution to me.
It's not exactly complex. And when you take it a step further and say, well any time I see the enhanced ability node and I’m using falcon, all I need to do is take whatever number it enhances by (20%, 25%, 50% etc) and multiply it by the chance of the ability, that's literally one calculation. I see a 50% node enhancement and I think oh, he's got an extra 50% ability accuracy, so falcon has to deal with half the chance of an evader.
Yes it's a valid assumption, but based on what actually happens and based on what Kabam have told us that assumption proves wrong. And it still makes sense when you consider ability accuracy a stat, and not some wishy-washy concept. A stat is increased by + or - X in this context. And it comes in handy for players sometimes with Longshot, who can increase his ability accuracy stat to 300%, meaning nodes and hacks in incursions trigger much more often.
You can feel however you like about it, and if you dislike the idea that 150% - 100% can = 50%, then I guess I can't change your mind about it. But try to think it less that you are taking an evasion chance and reducing it by 100%, and more that you're taking their ability accuracy stat and reducing it by 100. If their stat is above 100, then they clearly have a chance to trigger that ability.
The last thing I would say is another way to explain it is that if spider-man has 25% chance to evade, falcon can reduce that by 100% of that 25%, which is... 25%. But when he get's enhanced ability accuracy, he now has an extra 50% chance, so 37.5% chance to evade now. But falcon can only reduce the chance by his original amount defined in his abilities, 100% of the 25%. Think of it like a base ability accuracy, falcon can't reduce further than that base value, he can't do 150% reduction. So that 37.5% chance to evade, minus the 25% value comes to 12.5% chance to evade, in other words, 50% of the original chance to evade. This is extra maths, and not needed for when you come across it in day to day content. Just consider that enhanced ability nodes increase their ability accuracy stat, and falcon can't reduce more than their base ability.
Her description has since been changed back to "opponents cannot trigger their evade abilities"