back in days people also disagreed with GR having incinerate immune. same goes for phasing
Are you arguing ghost should get a buff?
no this isnt buff. even this goes for kitty aswell. when something phase it cannot be touch in anyway
If ghost can’t be missed then that makes her better. So you are arguing for a buff.
“I’m not saying Ghost should be buffed, I’m saying her core mechanic should be changed in a way that makes her better. These are different things, I decided.”
back in days people also disagreed with GR having incinerate immune. same goes for phasing
Are you arguing ghost should get a buff?
no this isnt buff. even this goes for kitty aswell. when something phase it cannot be touch in anyway
If ghost can’t be missed then that makes her better. So you are arguing for a buff.
“I’m not saying Ghost should be buffed, I’m saying her core mechanic should be changed in a way that makes her better. These are different things, I decided.”
It would do wonders for true focus, sorry Kabam designers, good luck trying to make true focus work - phasing means you can’t be touched in any way!
Makes perfect sense for DD to counter miss. Same as Torch countering miss because he gets really hot. Or Nick to counter miss for no apparent reason. Or for CGR to counter miss because he punches and shoots in the right order.
If you have an issue behind the logic of DD countering miss, then you need to have an issue with the logic of all game mechanics. Which just doesn’t make sense. It’s a game, not every mechanic makes sense in real world logic.
there's a different between invisibility and phasing. yes if someone is invisibile you can still hit them. but phasing?? you cant hit a ghost no matter how hot you are or how sharp you are
Weird that nobody ever has this issue that Nick can hit ghost phasing.
If you wanna petition Kabam to make the game more realistic sure, that’s a different matter. But I was replying to OP, not Reverend
well there should be some logics in game aswell also even zibiit stated my word that you cant hit ghost
Should Hulk be able to hit black widow without snapping her in two?
Well, according to their MCU romantic story arc, it is implied that Hulk had already did or was about to hit that before he went into space to become a gladiator ( what a way to sublimate his instinctive desires right? Lol)
Anyway, my point is that if in the MCU Hulk could have done so without splitting her in two ( err ... uhm... oh wait!) then in the game he should be able to do so as well. 😉
"Wah I want more logic but only the logic that I prescribe to in the video game about fictional characters in a fictional universe! Wah!"
there are logics even in fictional stuff. if you are shot, you're dead. if you are stabbed, you're dead. pretty simple
Tell that to Deadpool. Or Wolverine.
well both wolverin and deadpool got killed by the same things i stated lol
And both Deadpool and Wolverine have survived those things. So which logic are we going to go with?
nop both got killed in the last movies
And in the comics they have both survived this. So again. Which logic are we going by?
anything that makes sense and is applyable:)
Which nothing makes sense or is "applyable" (the word is applicable FYI) because it's a fictional universe within a fictional multiverse with fictional characters with a lot of fictional abilities. Just because you don't think the logic is sound, doesn't make your logic correct either.
MCOC isn't based in the MCU. It's not based in the mainline comics either.
back in days people also disagreed with GR having incinerate immune. same goes for phasing
Are you arguing ghost should get a buff?
no this isnt buff. even this goes for kitty aswell. when something phase it cannot be touch in anyway
If ghost can’t be missed then that makes her better. So you are arguing for a buff.
“I’m not saying Ghost should be buffed, I’m saying her core mechanic should be changed in a way that makes her better. These are different things, I decided.”
It would do wonders for true focus, sorry Kabam designers, good luck trying to make true focus work - phasing means you can’t be touched in any way!
Easy – True Focus gives you enough focus to access whatever weird quantum realm Ghost phases into, allowing you to hit her anyway
I don't really care if things evolves and game mechanics changes. But this was hilarious how they changed there own statements. Hint: Not the first time.
Makes perfect sense for DD to counter miss. Same as Torch countering miss because he gets really hot. Or Nick to counter miss for no apparent reason. Or for CGR to counter miss because he punches and shoots in the right order.
If you have an issue behind the logic of DD countering miss, then you need to have an issue with the logic of all game mechanics. Which just doesn’t make sense. It’s a game, not every mechanic makes sense in real world logic.
there's a different between invisibility and phasing. yes if someone is invisibile you can still hit them. but phasing?? you cant hit a ghost no matter how hot you are or how sharp you are
Weird that nobody ever has this issue that Nick can hit ghost phasing.
If you wanna petition Kabam to make the game more realistic sure, that’s a different matter. But I was replying to OP, not Reverend
well there should be some logics in game aswell also even zibiit stated my word that you cant hit ghost
Should Hulk be able to hit black widow without snapping her in two?
I've always had the headcanon that all the Iso-8 we feed into our champs brings them all on a equal playing field.
back in days people also disagreed with GR having incinerate immune. same goes for phasing
Are you arguing ghost should get a buff?
no this isnt buff. even this goes for kitty aswell. when something phase it cannot be touch in anyway
If ghost can’t be missed then that makes her better. So you are arguing for a buff.
“I’m not saying Ghost should be buffed, I’m saying her core mechanic should be changed in a way that makes her better. These are different things, I decided.”
It would do wonders for true focus, sorry Kabam designers, good luck trying to make true focus work - phasing means you can’t be touched in any way!
Easy – True Focus gives you enough focus to access whatever weird quantum realm Ghost phases into, allowing you to hit her anyway
I guess?
Not sure if I can explain Daredevil.
Nobody can explain daredevil really, on the big screen at least. If we saw DD hit ghost and she gasped and asked how he did it, and he said it’s because he’s blind. That makes 0 sense.
However, this is a game, it doesn’t *need* to make sense. He has an ability that counters another ability in the game. I think that’s all that matters really.
Nick fury can be bled, he can suffer from bleed. But why, when he knocks an opponent down does that bleed get removed? He’s been shot right, or clawed by wolverine. He’s bleeding heavily, but oh wait, he’s punched Wolverine hard enough so he’s flat on his back and the wound has magically healed?! Where’s the logic in that?
Makes perfect sense for DD to counter miss. Same as Torch countering miss because he gets really hot. Or Nick to counter miss for no apparent reason. Or for CGR to counter miss because he punches and shoots in the right order.
If you have an issue behind the logic of DD countering miss, then you need to have an issue with the logic of all game mechanics. Which just doesn’t make sense. It’s a game, not every mechanic makes sense in real world logic.
there's a different between invisibility and phasing. yes if someone is invisibile you can still hit them. but phasing?? you cant hit a ghost no matter how hot you are or how sharp you are
Weird that nobody ever has this issue that Nick can hit ghost phasing.
If you wanna petition Kabam to make the game more realistic sure, that’s a different matter. But I was replying to OP, not Reverend
well there should be some logics in game aswell also even zibiit stated my word that you cant hit ghost
Should Hulk be able to hit black widow without snapping her in two?
I've always had the headcanon that all the Iso-8 we feed into our champs brings them all on a equal playing field.
I’m actually pretty sure that’s been confirmed by Kabam in the past, given as an explanation to why some characters can survive hits from others. It’s why I use that example whenever people bring up real world logic.
This is one of the only good abilities of DD on offense and you are saying to nerf it. My boi is already such an average champ. Why you want to kill him?🥲
Makes perfect sense for DD to counter miss. Same as Torch countering miss because he gets really hot. Or Nick to counter miss for no apparent reason. Or for CGR to counter miss because he punches and shoots in the right order.
If you have an issue behind the logic of DD countering miss, then you need to have an issue with the logic of all game mechanics. Which just doesn’t make sense. It’s a game, not every mechanic makes sense in real world logic.
there's a different between invisibility and phasing. yes if someone is invisibile you can still hit them. but phasing?? you cant hit a ghost no matter how hot you are or how sharp you are
Weird that nobody ever has this issue that Nick can hit ghost phasing.
If you wanna petition Kabam to make the game more realistic sure, that’s a different matter. But I was replying to OP, not Reverend
well there should be some logics in game aswell also even zibiit stated my word that you cant hit ghost
Should Hulk be able to hit black widow without snapping her in two?
not every logic can be applied to the game. but some can. like GR having incinerate immunity. he didnt have it till CGR came into the game
It’s a video game my guy, some logic has to be suspended to play it. You can’t really pick one piece of logic to stick to, but then say not this one. It’s game balance and it’s the reason we can have Hulk fighting black widow, it’s the reason Nick fury can hit ghost while phasing, and it’s the reason DD can hit ghost too.
well that's the problem here.... i agree with the first part. thanos cant be as strong as comics or he will knock everyone out. hulk cant be like mcu or comics so champions can crush him. but this thing it's like not adding bleed immune to a champion that cant bleed. or saying bleed and poison are same because both are dots. even the wording is different phasing and invisibility. there should be a different between them!
You even admit yourself you can’t apply logic to the game, either you hold yourself to make everything logical, or you accept that you can’t make a video game logical. They’re game mechanics, not rules for a life-like simulation
There are hundreds of situations like this you can point out. You’d be here all month trying to fix them all. Morningstar can be poisoned, Angela’s sword doesn’t bleed, iceman isn’t coldsnap immune.
You can’t apply too much logic to a marvel film, let alone a mobile video game based on a mixture of comic books, tv shows and films.
Do you not see how it’s a little much now?
When champions are taken from their universe, they are given ISO-8 which affects their powers, meaning Nick fury can be stronger than thanos. That is all the logic you’re getting there my friend. If you want to complain and campaign Kabam to change it, by all means, but just know it doesn’t really make much sense.
as i said and will say, yes you cant apply every logic to this game. this doesnt mean you there shouldnt be some logics there. no matter how much iso-8 are given. you cant make a bleed immune champ bleed. same goes for phasing you cant hit something if you cant touch jt
The critical difference here is that it is the game mechanics that should function logically consistently, not that the game must implement the champion's fictional abilities consistent with their portrayals. Bleed immunity is not a fictional ability, it is a game mechanic. It should function within the game in a logically consistent manner so the players know what's going on in the game.
But "phasing" and "invisibility" are not game mechanics. They are fluff text. The actual game mechanic is "miss" (at least at the moment as far as I'm aware: that can change). If you want something to phase, or turn invisible, or whatever else in the game you have to map that idea to the game mechanics that exist. Miss works in a particular way and interacts with other abilities in a particular way, and if miss is the closest analog to what you want to do, you either pick miss or just don't make the champion at all.
Mechanics cost time and resources to implement, and the more mechanics you make the more complexity cost you incur the game overall, so you can't just make custom mechanics for every single champion. You have to pick and choose when to spend those resources. The game is not a simulation of comic book physics, the game only intends to evoke those comic book abilities.
To put it another way, the champions fit into the game, the game doesn't warp around the needs of the characters. That would simply be impractical. The question "what do I need to change in the game to implement the champion I want in the way I want" is an expensive question that champion designers generally don't get to ask. Instead, most champions in the game answers the question "how can I best implement this Marvel character given the game mechanics that exist now."
At the end of the day, the reason why Daredevil can hit a phasing object is the same reason why the horsey in Chess can jump over towers, but the pawns cannot step around the guy in the pointy hat. Chess is a game that evokes warfare but doesn't simulate warfare. MCOC is a game that evokes comic book fighting but doesn't simulate comic book fighting.
Makes perfect sense for DD to counter miss. Same as Torch countering miss because he gets really hot. Or Nick to counter miss for no apparent reason. Or for CGR to counter miss because he punches and shoots in the right order.
If you have an issue behind the logic of DD countering miss, then you need to have an issue with the logic of all game mechanics. Which just doesn’t make sense. It’s a game, not every mechanic makes sense in real world logic.
there's a different between invisibility and phasing. yes if someone is invisibile you can still hit them. but phasing?? you cant hit a ghost no matter how hot you are or how sharp you are
Weird that nobody ever has this issue that Nick can hit ghost phasing.
If you wanna petition Kabam to make the game more realistic sure, that’s a different matter. But I was replying to OP, not Reverend
well there should be some logics in game aswell also even zibiit stated my word that you cant hit ghost
Should Hulk be able to hit black widow without snapping her in two?
not every logic can be applied to the game. but some can. like GR having incinerate immunity. he didnt have it till CGR came into the game
It’s a video game my guy, some logic has to be suspended to play it. You can’t really pick one piece of logic to stick to, but then say not this one. It’s game balance and it’s the reason we can have Hulk fighting black widow, it’s the reason Nick fury can hit ghost while phasing, and it’s the reason DD can hit ghost too.
well that's the problem here.... i agree with the first part. thanos cant be as strong as comics or he will knock everyone out. hulk cant be like mcu or comics so champions can crush him. but this thing it's like not adding bleed immune to a champion that cant bleed. or saying bleed and poison are same because both are dots. even the wording is different phasing and invisibility. there should be a different between them!
You even admit yourself you can’t apply logic to the game, either you hold yourself to make everything logical, or you accept that you can’t make a video game logical. They’re game mechanics, not rules for a life-like simulation
There are hundreds of situations like this you can point out. You’d be here all month trying to fix them all. Morningstar can be poisoned, Angela’s sword doesn’t bleed, iceman isn’t coldsnap immune.
You can’t apply too much logic to a marvel film, let alone a mobile video game based on a mixture of comic books, tv shows and films.
Do you not see how it’s a little much now?
When champions are taken from their universe, they are given ISO-8 which affects their powers, meaning Nick fury can be stronger than thanos. That is all the logic you’re getting there my friend. If you want to complain and campaign Kabam to change it, by all means, but just know it doesn’t really make much sense.
as i said and will say, yes you cant apply every logic to this game. this doesnt mean you there shouldnt be some logics there. no matter how much iso-8 are given. you cant make a bleed immune champ bleed. same goes for phasing you cant hit something if you cant touch jt
The critical difference here is that it is the game mechanics that should function logically consistently, not that the game must implement the champion's fictional abilities consistent with their portrayals. Bleed immunity is not a fictional ability, it is a game mechanic. It should function within the game in a logically consistent manner so the players know what's going on in the game.
But "phasing" and "invisibility" are not game mechanics. They are fluff text. The actual game mechanic is "miss" (at least at the moment as far as I'm aware: that can change). If you want something to phase, or turn invisible, or whatever else in the game you have to map that idea to the game mechanics that exist. Miss works in a particular way and interacts with other abilities in a particular way, and if miss is the closest analog to what you want to do, you either pick miss or just don't make the champion at all.
Mechanics cost time and resources to implement, and the more mechanics you make the more complexity cost you incur the game overall, so you can't just make custom mechanics for every single champion. You have to pick and choose when to spend those resources. The game is not a simulation of comic book physics, the game only intends to evoke those comic book abilities.
To put it another way, the champions fit into the game, the game doesn't warp around the needs of the characters. That would simply be impractical. The question "what do I need to change in the game to implement the champion I want in the way I want" is an expensive question that champion designers generally don't get to ask. Instead, most champions in the game answers the question "how can I best implement this Marvel character given the game mechanics that exist now."
At the end of the day, the reason why Daredevil can hit a phasing object is the same reason why the horsey in Chess can jump over towers, but the pawns cannot step around the guy in the pointy hat. Chess is a game that evokes warfare but doesn't simulate warfare. MCOC is a game that evokes comic book fighting but doesn't simulate comic book fighting.
Great post. I couldn't have put it better myself even if I had tried to. Awesome.
Two groups of players talking about different kinds of logics, each side only look at their own arguments.
1) Are you talking about logic in real life vs logic in game based on a comic? 2) Are you talking about logic in-game which created by the game company but growing inconsistent when more and more champs with different capabilities are being introduced?
If talking about (1) then there is no point to discuss as most of the things in comic are supernatural. If you're talking about (2) such as hellfire vs incinerate or iceman vs coldsnap then it is debatable.
This is exactly how we should all view the game, IMO. This champ has this immunity based of his/her lore in the comics. Maybe not all the immunities, but Kabam - who runs this place - decided to give/not give this champ immunities. Or not.
In the comics Symbiotes are vulnerable to fire. We’re lucky they didn’t do something like +200% damage while a symbiote is incinerated as part of their base kit or something like that.
I believe we all want the most accurate depiction of a champion but in the end @Redslimm is correct IMO. It’s a game that is limited by rules.
back in days people also disagreed with GR having incinerate immune. same goes for phasing
Are you arguing ghost should get a buff?
no this isnt buff. even this goes for kitty aswell. when something phase it cannot be touch in anyway
If ghost can’t be missed then that makes her better. So you are arguing for a buff.
“I’m not saying Ghost should be buffed, I’m saying her core mechanic should be changed in a way that makes her better. These are different things, I decided.”
"Changing core mechanics and not calling it a buff is TIGHT!"
Comments
Well, according to their MCU romantic story arc, it is implied that Hulk had already did or was about to hit that before he went into space to become a gladiator ( what a way to sublimate his instinctive desires right? Lol)
Anyway, my point is that if in the MCU Hulk could have done so without splitting her in two ( err ... uhm... oh wait!) then in the game he should be able to do so as well. 😉
MCOC isn't based in the MCU. It's not based in the mainline comics either.
I guess?
Not sure if I can explain Daredevil.
Hint: Not the first time.
Just deal with it, like we all did.
Then i wouldn't miss her cause we'll always be together.
However, this is a game, it doesn’t *need* to make sense. He has an ability that counters another ability in the game. I think that’s all that matters really.
Nick fury can be bled, he can suffer from bleed. But why, when he knocks an opponent down does that bleed get removed? He’s been shot right, or clawed by wolverine. He’s bleeding heavily, but oh wait, he’s punched Wolverine hard enough so he’s flat on his back and the wound has magically healed?! Where’s the logic in that?
D³reDevil.
But "phasing" and "invisibility" are not game mechanics. They are fluff text. The actual game mechanic is "miss" (at least at the moment as far as I'm aware: that can change). If you want something to phase, or turn invisible, or whatever else in the game you have to map that idea to the game mechanics that exist. Miss works in a particular way and interacts with other abilities in a particular way, and if miss is the closest analog to what you want to do, you either pick miss or just don't make the champion at all.
Mechanics cost time and resources to implement, and the more mechanics you make the more complexity cost you incur the game overall, so you can't just make custom mechanics for every single champion. You have to pick and choose when to spend those resources. The game is not a simulation of comic book physics, the game only intends to evoke those comic book abilities.
To put it another way, the champions fit into the game, the game doesn't warp around the needs of the characters. That would simply be impractical. The question "what do I need to change in the game to implement the champion I want in the way I want" is an expensive question that champion designers generally don't get to ask. Instead, most champions in the game answers the question "how can I best implement this Marvel character given the game mechanics that exist now."
At the end of the day, the reason why Daredevil can hit a phasing object is the same reason why the horsey in Chess can jump over towers, but the pawns cannot step around the guy in the pointy hat. Chess is a game that evokes warfare but doesn't simulate warfare. MCOC is a game that evokes comic book fighting but doesn't simulate comic book fighting.
1) Are you talking about logic in real life vs logic in game based on a comic?
2) Are you talking about logic in-game which created by the game company but growing inconsistent when more and more champs with different capabilities are being introduced?
If talking about (1) then there is no point to discuss as most of the things in comic are supernatural. If you're talking about (2) such as hellfire vs incinerate or iceman vs coldsnap then it is debatable.
In the comics Symbiotes are vulnerable to fire. We’re lucky they didn’t do something like +200% damage while a symbiote is incinerated as part of their base kit or something like that.
I believe we all want the most accurate depiction of a champion but in the end @Redslimm is correct IMO. It’s a game that is limited by rules.