I see a lot of CGR and I used to agree. Brought him up to r3 at sig 20 and was like wow I'm not using him much. However I started using him for act 6 exploration, for act 7 paths, and the thing is he gets rid of all buffs, opponent can't gain power for a long time and the ease at which you hit massive combos is ridiculous. The fights are just over so quickly it doesn't matter if you take tons of blocked hits cuz you'll only take a few. It's easy to cycle sp2's, its not a cycle, mess up, and takes forever to recover. He just covers a lot of ground. Check out karatemike415.
She is very RNG based (very often goes 15-20 huts without a single fury). When she gets the fury, it is all about pushing the enemy over a bar and praying they throw the SP. One slight mistake or tiny stubborn AI and she loses everything. She allows for literally 0 fight flexibility, which is super impractical in endgame-ish content (Act 7 and so)
Imo, she is sometimes more RNG dependant than Domino.
I love Shulk and her utility isn't RNG dependent 🤷♀️
That is your holy right. I don't nees her utility. For heal reversal I have Void&Torch, for countering Unstop I have Kali and CapIW. Poison immunity is covered by all my robots and other champs. That's maybe why I dislike her
What about countering evade? Can cap and whoever the hell kali is do tbat?
Quake. I know people say she just requires skill, but so does every champ. She just takes forever and you have to get lucky every second that the IA doesn't do something different. The AI only has to get lucky once and its lights out for her.
Im on board with the others saying gully 2099, I didnt have her until recently, took her to R2 (unawakened still) and used her in 7.1 where the opponent gets more combat power for every crit-hit. Average hits per fight was around 170 or something ridiculous. Probably just me not understanding how to use her.
If you average 170 hits every fight with g99 you probably haven't realized you can carry over 100 combo...
Sasquatch, damage kinda sucks, very little utility, very overrated
Wasp is amazing. And i was thinking quite the opposite for sasquatch but that’s not what overrated means lol. Overrated = bad is just false. It’s just a bad word to the eye. Why is this the most misused word in forums. Let me elaborate. Ok, elsa is NOT a bad champ, far from it matter a fact. She has some solid utility, decent evade counter, and she’s good for that evade on parry. Burst damage is fun as well. But many claimed (in the past) for her to be a top 10 skill champ. She’s good but there are champs that are better that these people undermine in the process of overvaluing elsa. Like if i said CGR is the best cosmic because he has more damage than the other cosmics, that’s just putting too much value in his damage. They wouldn’t be called overrated otherwise.
I see a lot of CGR and I used to agree. Brought him up to r3 at sig 20 and was like wow I'm not using him much. However I started using him for act 6 exploration, for act 7 paths, and the thing is he gets rid of all buffs, opponent can't gain power for a long time and the ease at which you hit massive combos is ridiculous. The fights are just over so quickly it doesn't matter if you take tons of blocked hits cuz you'll only take a few. It's easy to cycle sp2's, its not a cycle, mess up, and takes forever to recover. He just covers a lot of ground. Check out karatemike415.
His damage is definitely crazy but people tend to ignore the downsides and all of his other utility too. If i claimed he were the best cosmic, i would say “CGR has power control which not many cosmics have, high damage output, stacks a lot of armor breaks, unblockable sp1, high crit rate with precision on sp2, and some solid synergies.”
Also his sig is pretty underrated ngl, people say he doesn’t need it but it’s worth putting into him
Also, Captain Marvel. Fell off like a ton of bricks. Although it’s probably more a function of the Cosmic class becoming jacked towards the top
This same exact statement about CMM can be said to Omega Red. Whatever happened to being the best mutant? Now he’s so out shined by mags/aa/prof/apoc. He’s mainly only relevant in AW nowadays, and he needs ST synergy to be in the same convo as those other mutants, but those mutants dont need anyone and they don’t need suicides or 200 sigs either. Omega red is falling off hard people, when will you realize this?
Also, Captain Marvel. Fell off like a ton of bricks. Although it’s probably more a function of the Cosmic class becoming jacked towards the top
This same exact statement about CMM can be said to Omega Red. Whatever happened to being the best mutant? Now he’s so out shined by mags/aa/prof/apoc. He’s mainly only relevant in AW nowadays, and he needs ST synergy to be in the same convo as those other mutants, but those mutants dont need anyone and they don’t need suicides or 200 sigs either. Omega red is falling off hard people, when will you realize this?
And Kitty, don't forget Kitty outshining all mutants rn.
She is very RNG based (very often goes 15-20 huts without a single fury). When she gets the fury, it is all about pushing the enemy over a bar and praying they throw the SP. One slight mistake or tiny stubborn AI and she loses everything. She allows for literally 0 fight flexibility, which is super impractical in endgame-ish content (Act 7 and so)
Imo, she is sometimes more RNG dependant than Domino.
My opinion is thing. His damage doesn't feel that good without synergies and nowadays even noobs can defeat thing boss. I know many will disagree but this is how I feel.
My opinion is thing. His damage doesn't feel that good without synergies and nowadays even noobs can defeat thing boss. I know many will disagree but this is how I feel.
CMM. Especially with the introduction of CGR and Herc.
Her main thing was destroying stuff before the fight caught up to you and you died. Well Herc and CGR both destroy stuff before the fight properly catches up to you and they both actually have some nice utility.
I still love my CMM, but I am slightly annoyed that she needs Nick to get extended binary, whereas Herc, CGR and Corvus don't need synergies. Without Nick, it's too stressful to play her, but it is possible to.
She was my first r3 champ for TB and she was unduped. At the time she was introduced she worked, now not so much because of the heal pool going up and up in endgame content. Even with NF synergy she still doesn’t cut it if the fight is gonna take some time. To keep her binary up the entire fight you need to be very aggressive and spam heavies. Now with opponents having long specials, AI becoming smarter and hesitant with throwing specials she’s doesn’t work like before. You’re more likely going to have to ramp her twice (or even more) in a single with the health pools we’ll be seeing from now onwards. I’m afraid she’ll needs more than NF synergy, another synergy with binary pause mechanic. Ex. During opponents specials, or whenever she increased charges pause for X secs or something. The downside is it MAY make her broken for earlier content like Act 5 or 6 but I doubt it. There are too many champs OP especially for Act 5.
It seems like a common thing on this thread that players see champs as "overrated" when they either don't have them (or have not understood their abilities as is obvious by descriptions), or barely ever play them. Not everyone, but a significant enough part that I find it a bit funny. Also, overrated is such a general term that it is difficult to accurately determine the overall player base's views toward a specific character.
Now to pull out my Matt Murdock or Jennifer Walters briefcase, let us sit down and defend some of these champions from takes that are a little too hot.
Aegon: RavenKeeper said: I agree to a point, however I don't think people really hype him up or use him outside of for AOL/LOL anyways. Maybe on a few paths in Act 7, but other than that he's not really used. He's the best champion in the game at 999 combo, but that's really only possible in AOL/LOL. So agree with you in a way. J0eySn0w said: I don’t think Ægon was design for your everyday quest and fights. He’s one of the best if not the best for marathon kind of fights which is okay. Still, think some champs could use some new synergies that gives them a little you know. Ægon for instance, maybe a synergy that allows him to double combo during his 1st fight or something. It’s nothing really but a little push for non-marathon fights. Another example is MS if duped requires 4 fights to reach max charges without synergy. Act 7 fights are mostly 6 fights to Boss (rarely you even see in other contents 6+ fights) some of which she may not be viable either due to nodes or defenders. She cannot be ramped up with suicides unless with synergy. Proxima another example, maybe a synergy to carry forward the last completed mission into the next fight or even a synergy that allows to shuffle through missions. All these little nuisances make some champs just not worth it to use often, thus we’re mostly using the same popular champs. Just my opinion or something I’d do.
Personally, I took my Aegon up to rank 5 and sig 200 almost immediately (I had to wait forever to pull him though). If my memory serves me correctly, I pulled him soon after beating the OG Champion 6.2 boss. I had waited on story content for a while, but had some extra units and wanted to complete Act 6 before Act 7 came out, so I blasted through 6.3 and 6.4 completion in a small amount of time with Aegon as my primary path clearer and often the best option for the boss. I have used him through Act 7, and in a variety of Cav EQ nodes (even nodes that were supposed to favor other classes). I get that he is basically the best champ in game at 999 combo, but I think that people overlook how much utility and damage that he can access even at 150|200 combo. Lets refresh: That is nuts. Not even including his unblockable ability or the 40% chance to shrug at 5 combo. After 50-75 combo, basically everything is a critical hit, even through block. If you take him into anything above Act 6.3, he can typically get to 100 banked combo in the first fight, especially if you use his sp1. That means you already have the bulk of his utility, and can probably get to 200-250 in the next fight or two. He excels in LOL and AOL, but counters a variety of nodes and difficult bosses throughout story content. Really the only things that he is below par on is restrictive variant content, which is not usually considered in gauging usefulness. Just because you d not use him does not make him useless. His combo is even one of the easiest to keep up with several of his abilities helping him, and other synergies like the Nick/Quake evades, or the starlord backup providing assistance. He will continue to dominate lots of content (unless drastic changes are made) for a while yet. He is one of my go-to champs unless I am just messing around and trying out fun champ combos.
Next, let us look at Shehulk Kerneas said:
That is your holy right. I don't nees her utility. For heal reversal I have Void&Torch, for countering Unstop I have Kali and CapIW. Poison immunity is covered by all my robots and other champs. That's maybe why I dislike her
Just because you don't need her utility does not mean that it is not a really solid amount of utility. A super versatile awakened ability, plus poison immunity, plus passive furies, one of the best unstoppable counters with guaranteed heavy landing + slow debuff + a 2x passive fury, access to exhaustion, petrify, weakness, and an often overlooked ability on the passive furies that functions as a scalable taunt.
The argument that you have several champions that do individual things that She hulk can do does not reduce her usefulness or effectiveness. Doom has shock, but so does Sentinel. Doom has power control, but so does Magik. Doom has a fury, but Venom can access 7 furies. It is the combination and potential of all those abilities in one champion that makes it a great champion. It is annoying when you lose her furies, but only the increased chance to throw sp and the damage is lost, not "everything". She still has okay base damage and all the rest of her utility. Also, what do you mean fight "flexibility"? I assume you mean that if the fight does not go exactly how you want it in terms of the opponent throwing an sp, then she is "super impractical". She may lose some damage overall, but in content where utility is being increasingly valued more than just raw damage output, she still shines. She is not seen as a super OP champ, but as a useful and reliable champ that can deal with a wide range of problems. At least that is what I get from the community.
Next, Quake and also a bit of BWCV: baskinrobbinsknows said: Quake. I know people say she just requires skill, but so does every champ. She just takes forever and you have to get lucky every second that the IA doesn't do something different. The AI only has to get lucky once and its lights out for her.
solopolo said: Morningstar, BWCV, Magik, Quake. Hear me out.
Morningstar - horrible damage output, takes too many fights to ramp up and ramping her just feels bad. Majority of other mystics do what she does better and faster.
Magik - alright, mostly joking with this one, but that 95% still bothers me every time I see it. Why couldn't they just make the power lock a guarantee? But no, Magik is a great champ, just... wanted an excuse to point that out.
BWCV/Quake - BEFORE THE PITCHFORKS COME OUT, yes, both of these are phenomenal champions with some of the best kits in the game. But, outside of quests/paths that they're built to counter, you will almost always find a better option. I consider them to be similar to Namor. They only really function well as counters. Maybe it's because I haven't r5'd her yet, and still working on suicides, but I don't see myself using BW over Doom or Voodoo in standard UC/Cav level fights. Quake is just... slow. At this point she's more of a safeguard for fights I'm not sure about, if I fail miserably with the champions I bring in I can throw out quake for a guaranteed win. But no way in hell am I taking quake through an entire path. Don't have the patience for that.
Personally I find the whole quake vs ghost debate pretty funny, because who in their right mind is gonna sit there and quake through entire quests every single day, regardless of how effective it is? Sounds brain-numbing to me.
First off, I agree with MS. Not a huge fan. Magik, I can appreciate the point made. BWCV I will tackle later. Both of these seem to come from a lack of use or knowledge on quake, but let me see if my input can help.
First, playing Quake in the way that makes her great does require a lot more skill than most champs. She may take forever, but if you actually have played her in the right way then it does not matter what moves the AI makes. I have played all kinds of AI with her and it is not based on luck, just on me getting distracted or not paying attention. I thought it was a joke before I learned how, but it really is possible with the heavy-dex method to correctly time out and miss all of the opponent's possible attacks. It is possible for you to mess up once and die, but if you play endgame content with any frequency, most fights are so stacked that most of my deaths come because of a single mistake. She actually can make up for unlucky player use with her concussion and self-managed evade. I have messed up a number of times but still had the champion evade for me because of her mechanics.
As for the BWCV/Quake comment, I think you are focusing on the wrong aspect of the two characters. Their fights might be a little slower (or a lot in terms of Quake) than the best single counter for a fight, but they work so well because they can take on such a wide variety of fights. You may not use them to clear a whole path (though I certainly have with BWCV and she has done great) but their value comes in because they can handle so many tough fights that path clearers might not. Their utility and abilities counter a huge percentage of the troublesome nodes/interactions in the game and that is why they are so great. I could also argue why I love Namor, but I will leave that for a different time. I will say that I don't run suicides anymore, but with full suicides, both of these champs become even better. BWCV can clear out both debuffs in four hits. She can then cycle back around and heal up any damage lost by recoil and end a long fight at 100% health. I played her and Doom with suicides for a while and Doom definitely had some great uses, but I much preferred to bring BWCV. I personally like her animations better, she has a similarly large amount of utility, but the healing set her apart for me. (in a comparison with 5* or 6* R2) For Doom to properly dismantle an endgame opponent with suicides, you will often lose 20-35% health even if you do not mess up badly. This is only sustainable if you have potions to burn or only want to use him for 2-3 fights. BWCV might take a few more hits (with that 9 hit sp2) or a little longer, but regeneration is an ability that I feel is often underrated in the community.
Apologies for a comment length that rivals a DNA post (love ya bud), but I thought some constructive comments might make this a more interesting thread than just me adding my own underrated champs into the mix. Also, I was bored.
I wouldn't say criminally overrated, but I really don't get the hype behind G99. Like, I get that she's good, got some good abilities, but I really don't see what puts her so high up with the best.
Such huge damage on basic hits.
She regens from 15-50% every fight which saves a lot of revives and health potions. Has a beefy armour up which makes block damage a lot more manageable, she can also crit when needed, power burn and life steal. She has lots of combo shields that also act as a protection in a way (if awakened) when getting hit can phase for a long time and it has saved my butt a couple of times. End fights with special three and it insta kills if they're at 4% (this does not override hit caps like rage or abyss) so every fight you finish with it your biggest hit is shown as a couple billion damage.You can power control super easily if needed even thru block (sp1), or get a bunch of hits and a heal reverse (sp2).
Basically, you don't need to heal her up, you go in with a big combo and within a few combos and a special two you're melting the opponent with passive damage and degeneration (which few champions are immune to). You won't take a lot of block damage, don't have to worry about losing your combo as much as with star lord or Aegon, and no matter the health pool that last four percent is an instant sp3 kill.
I didn't really get the hype either until I started using my 6*, she's at r2, can't see her going to r3. Very good tho. Don't use her all the time, but for instance the apoc sidequest she was great.
Ah well, that is pretty helpful. Probably won't end up using her anyway, since my tech roster overcompensates for everything at this point, but it's nice to know.
Anything she can do that Warlock, Guardian and Ghost don't cover?
I mean if you need a high combo ramp up champ that can do 14k a hit at 600 combo?
I just use her for different scenarios. TBF I ranked and sigged my guardian, never used him. Ghost I use all the time in story quest for dot and quick fights with minimal damage taken. Warlock is great against power and regen.
Guilly is good for lanes with poison and bleed and armour breaks if you need someone who can tank hits and just do damage. Ghost can only do so much without dot and especially without buffs, Guardian can ramp but its very slow and doesn't work on shock immunes, warlock is fantastic.
You sorta have to experiment with her for yourself. For me, she fills a couple gaps I have in my roster, but if you have Warlock, Gaurdian and Ghost up as well as not really feeling like you need her, guilly is fine to stay on the bench.
What? My 6* R2 gully does 25k combos at 300 combos. How is yours doing less??
I wouldn't say criminally overrated, but I really don't get the hype behind G99. Like, I get that she's good, got some good abilities, but I really don't see what puts her so high up with the best.
Such huge damage on basic hits.
She regens from 15-50% every fight which saves a lot of revives and health potions. Has a beefy armour up which makes block damage a lot more manageable, she can also crit when needed, power burn and life steal. She has lots of combo shields that also act as a protection in a way (if awakened) when getting hit can phase for a long time and it has saved my butt a couple of times. End fights with special three and it insta kills if they're at 4% (this does not override hit caps like rage or abyss) so every fight you finish with it your biggest hit is shown as a couple billion damage.You can power control super easily if needed even thru block (sp1), or get a bunch of hits and a heal reverse (sp2).
Basically, you don't need to heal her up, you go in with a big combo and within a few combos and a special two you're melting the opponent with passive damage and degeneration (which few champions are immune to). You won't take a lot of block damage, don't have to worry about losing your combo as much as with star lord or Aegon, and no matter the health pool that last four percent is an instant sp3 kill.
I didn't really get the hype either until I started using my 6*, she's at r2, can't see her going to r3. Very good tho. Don't use her all the time, but for instance the apoc sidequest she was great.
Ah well, that is pretty helpful. Probably won't end up using her anyway, since my tech roster overcompensates for everything at this point, but it's nice to know.
Anything she can do that Warlock, Guardian and Ghost don't cover?
I mean if you need a high combo ramp up champ that can do 14k a hit at 600 combo?
I just use her for different scenarios. TBF I ranked and sigged my guardian, never used him. Ghost I use all the time in story quest for dot and quick fights with minimal damage taken. Warlock is great against power and regen.
Guilly is good for lanes with poison and bleed and armour breaks if you need someone who can tank hits and just do damage. Ghost can only do so much without dot and especially without buffs, Guardian can ramp but its very slow and doesn't work on shock immunes, warlock is fantastic.
You sorta have to experiment with her for yourself. For me, she fills a couple gaps I have in my roster, but if you have Warlock, Gaurdian and Ghost up as well as not really feeling like you need her, guilly is fine to stay on the bench.
What? My 6* R2 gully does 25k combos at 300 combos. How is yours doing less??
My bad I was refrencing an msd video abyss solo so he was prolly using a two or three star.
Comments
These are some of the most overrated champs in the game as none of them are me, therefore they wiggity wiggity whack yo.
What about countering evade? Can cap and whoever the hell kali is do tbat?
Also his sig is pretty underrated ngl, people say he doesn’t need it but it’s worth putting into him
The downside is it MAY make her broken for earlier content like Act 5 or 6 but I doubt it. There are too many champs OP especially for Act 5.
Now to pull out my Matt Murdock or Jennifer Walters briefcase, let us sit down and defend some of these champions from takes that are a little too hot.
Aegon:
RavenKeeper said:
I agree to a point, however I don't think people really hype him up or use him outside of for AOL/LOL anyways. Maybe on a few paths in Act 7, but other than that he's not really used. He's the best champion in the game at 999 combo, but that's really only possible in AOL/LOL. So agree with you in a way.
J0eySn0w said:
I don’t think Ægon was design for your everyday quest and fights. He’s one of the best if not the best for marathon kind of fights which is okay.
Still, think some champs could use some new synergies that gives them a little you know. Ægon for instance, maybe a synergy that allows him to double combo during his 1st fight or something. It’s nothing really but a little push for non-marathon fights. Another example is MS if duped requires 4 fights to reach max charges without synergy. Act 7 fights are mostly 6 fights to Boss (rarely you even see in other contents 6+ fights) some of which she may not be viable either due to nodes or defenders. She cannot be ramped up with suicides unless with synergy. Proxima another example, maybe a synergy to carry forward the last completed mission into the next fight or even a synergy that allows to shuffle through missions. All these little nuisances make some champs just not worth it to use often, thus we’re mostly using the same popular champs. Just my opinion or something I’d do.
Personally, I took my Aegon up to rank 5 and sig 200 almost immediately (I had to wait forever to pull him though). If my memory serves me correctly, I pulled him soon after beating the OG Champion 6.2 boss. I had waited on story content for a while, but had some extra units and wanted to complete Act 6 before Act 7 came out, so I blasted through 6.3 and 6.4 completion in a small amount of time with Aegon as my primary path clearer and often the best option for the boss. I have used him through Act 7, and in a variety of Cav EQ nodes (even nodes that were supposed to favor other classes). I get that he is basically the best champ in game at 999 combo, but I think that people overlook how much utility and damage that he can access even at 150|200 combo. Lets refresh:
That is nuts. Not even including his unblockable ability or the 40% chance to shrug at 5 combo. After 50-75 combo, basically everything is a critical hit, even through block. If you take him into anything above Act 6.3, he can typically get to 100 banked combo in the first fight, especially if you use his sp1. That means you already have the bulk of his utility, and can probably get to 200-250 in the next fight or two. He excels in LOL and AOL, but counters a variety of nodes and difficult bosses throughout story content. Really the only things that he is below par on is restrictive variant content, which is not usually considered in gauging usefulness. Just because you d not use him does not make him useless. His combo is even one of the easiest to keep up with several of his abilities helping him, and other synergies like the Nick/Quake evades, or the starlord backup providing assistance. He will continue to dominate lots of content (unless drastic changes are made) for a while yet. He is one of my go-to champs unless I am just messing around and trying out fun champ combos.
Next, let us look at Shehulk
Kerneas said:
That is your holy right. I don't nees her utility. For heal reversal I have Void&Torch, for countering Unstop I have Kali and CapIW. Poison immunity is covered by all my robots and other champs. That's maybe why I dislike her
Just because you don't need her utility does not mean that it is not a really solid amount of utility. A super versatile awakened ability, plus poison immunity, plus passive furies, one of the best unstoppable counters with guaranteed heavy landing + slow debuff + a 2x passive fury, access to exhaustion, petrify, weakness, and an often overlooked ability on the passive furies that functions as a scalable taunt.
The argument that you have several champions that do individual things that She hulk can do does not reduce her usefulness or effectiveness. Doom has shock, but so does Sentinel. Doom has power control, but so does Magik. Doom has a fury, but Venom can access 7 furies. It is the combination and potential of all those abilities in one champion that makes it a great champion. It is annoying when you lose her furies, but only the increased chance to throw sp and the damage is lost, not "everything". She still has okay base damage and all the rest of her utility. Also, what do you mean fight "flexibility"? I assume you mean that if the fight does not go exactly how you want it in terms of the opponent throwing an sp, then she is "super impractical". She may lose some damage overall, but in content where utility is being increasingly valued more than just raw damage output, she still shines. She is not seen as a super OP champ, but as a useful and reliable champ that can deal with a wide range of problems. At least that is what I get from the community.
Next, Quake and also a bit of BWCV:
baskinrobbinsknows said:
Quake. I know people say she just requires skill, but so does every champ. She just takes forever and you have to get lucky every second that the IA doesn't do something different. The AI only has to get lucky once and its lights out for her.
solopolo said:
Morningstar, BWCV, Magik, Quake.
Hear me out.
Morningstar - horrible damage output, takes too many fights to ramp up and ramping her just feels bad. Majority of other mystics do what she does better and faster.
Magik - alright, mostly joking with this one, but that 95% still bothers me every time I see it. Why couldn't they just make the power lock a guarantee? But no, Magik is a great champ, just... wanted an excuse to point that out.
BWCV/Quake - BEFORE THE PITCHFORKS COME OUT, yes, both of these are phenomenal champions with some of the best kits in the game. But, outside of quests/paths that they're built to counter, you will almost always find a better option. I consider them to be similar to Namor. They only really function well as counters. Maybe it's because I haven't r5'd her yet, and still working on suicides, but I don't see myself using BW over Doom or Voodoo in standard UC/Cav level fights. Quake is just... slow. At this point she's more of a safeguard for fights I'm not sure about, if I fail miserably with the champions I bring in I can throw out quake for a guaranteed win. But no way in hell am I taking quake through an entire path. Don't have the patience for that.
Personally I find the whole quake vs ghost debate pretty funny, because who in their right mind is gonna sit there and quake through entire quests every single day, regardless of how effective it is? Sounds brain-numbing to me.
First off, I agree with MS. Not a huge fan. Magik, I can appreciate the point made. BWCV I will tackle later. Both of these seem to come from a lack of use or knowledge on quake, but let me see if my input can help.
First, playing Quake in the way that makes her great does require a lot more skill than most champs. She may take forever, but if you actually have played her in the right way then it does not matter what moves the AI makes. I have played all kinds of AI with her and it is not based on luck, just on me getting distracted or not paying attention. I thought it was a joke before I learned how, but it really is possible with the heavy-dex method to correctly time out and miss all of the opponent's possible attacks. It is possible for you to mess up once and die, but if you play endgame content with any frequency, most fights are so stacked that most of my deaths come because of a single mistake. She actually can make up for unlucky player use with her concussion and self-managed evade. I have messed up a number of times but still had the champion evade for me because of her mechanics.
As for the BWCV/Quake comment, I think you are focusing on the wrong aspect of the two characters. Their fights might be a little slower (or a lot in terms of Quake) than the best single counter for a fight, but they work so well because they can take on such a wide variety of fights. You may not use them to clear a whole path (though I certainly have with BWCV and she has done great) but their value comes in because they can handle so many tough fights that path clearers might not. Their utility and abilities counter a huge percentage of the troublesome nodes/interactions in the game and that is why they are so great. I could also argue why I love Namor, but I will leave that for a different time. I will say that I don't run suicides anymore, but with full suicides, both of these champs become even better. BWCV can clear out both debuffs in four hits. She can then cycle back around and heal up any damage lost by recoil and end a long fight at 100% health. I played her and Doom with suicides for a while and Doom definitely had some great uses, but I much preferred to bring BWCV. I personally like her animations better, she has a similarly large amount of utility, but the healing set her apart for me. (in a comparison with 5* or 6* R2) For Doom to properly dismantle an endgame opponent with suicides, you will often lose 20-35% health even if you do not mess up badly. This is only sustainable if you have potions to burn or only want to use him for 2-3 fights. BWCV might take a few more hits (with that 9 hit sp2) or a little longer, but regeneration is an ability that I feel is often underrated in the community.
Apologies for a comment length that rivals a DNA post (love ya bud), but I thought some constructive comments might make this a more interesting thread than just me adding my own underrated champs into the mix. Also, I was bored.