Games been broken for months. The fun is nearly gone for me. Map 8 was a nice addition but wars are beyond terrible. Too many bugs, fixes take too long. Then buffing champions have either been good or worse than before. Game still has a ton of potential but they really need to invest heavily on fixing it.
The summer 2020 roadmap came at a crucial time when discontent was high, just before a generous (and lucrative) July 4. I think it should honestly be re-examined to see where they’ve fallen back on their promises.
Off the top of my head, they promised these things that didn’t work out:
Nerfs to all attack values across 6.1 and 6.2. None were touched. Never gonna bother exploring act 6, personally.
More frequent variant content - canceled and returned to the usual schedule
Crystal/champion control - 4-star and 5-star dual class crystals were great. It has been nearly a year and a half. The 6-star pool has more champs than the 5-star pool iirc, and we’ve got an extra 30-35 champs released since the dual class crystal rollout. Do we have 6-star dual class crystals? Nope. Meaningful access to awakening gems? Nope. Any other crystals besides 300-unit cavaliers or 15,000-shard features to control our champion pool? Nope.
Dude, Act 6 was nerfed into the ground, what are you talking about?
They promised to nerf attack values for path fights and boss fights across the entire act. Every single fight in 6.1 and 6.2 has the exact same attack value as before. They made mostly-sideways adjustments to Crossbones, made Sinister and Mordo easier, and that was it for those two chapters IIRC.
I’m not gonna run 54 pain-in-the-*** paths of act 6 for a measly 25% t5cc and no meaningful amount of shards.
*If* anything further were to be done to the front half of Act 6, which to be clear I don’t think is necessary, it should not have anything to do with the attack values in 6.1 and 6.2. Instead, it should be reducing the total number of paths to 6 per quest rather than the current 10.
When I did my Act 6 exploration (which was well before any changes were made to the content), 6.1 and 6.2 weren’t difficult. They were just ungodly long. That’s the only thing that could justifiably be altered still.
The summer 2020 roadmap came at a crucial time when discontent was high, just before a generous (and lucrative) July 4. I think it should honestly be re-examined to see where they’ve fallen back on their promises.
Off the top of my head, they promised these things that didn’t work out:
Nerfs to all attack values across 6.1 and 6.2. None were touched. Never gonna bother exploring act 6, personally.
More frequent variant content - canceled and returned to the usual schedule
Crystal/champion control - 4-star and 5-star dual class crystals were great. It has been nearly a year and a half. The 6-star pool has more champs than the 5-star pool iirc, and we’ve got an extra 30-35 champs released since the dual class crystal rollout. Do we have 6-star dual class crystals? Nope. Meaningful access to awakening gems? Nope. Any other crystals besides 300-unit cavaliers or 15,000-shard features to control our champion pool? Nope.
Dude, Act 6 was nerfed into the ground, what are you talking about?
They promised to nerf attack values for path fights and boss fights across the entire act. Every single fight in 6.1 and 6.2 has the exact same attack value as before. They made mostly-sideways adjustments to Crossbones, made Sinister and Mordo easier, and that was it for those two chapters IIRC.
I’m not gonna run 54 pain-in-the-*** paths of act 6 for a measly 25% t5cc and no meaningful amount of shards.
*If* anything further were to be done to the front half of Act 6, which to be clear I don’t think is necessary, it should not have anything to do with the attack values in 6.1 and 6.2. Instead, it should be reducing the total number of paths to 6 per quest rather than the current 10.
When I did my Act 6 exploration (which was well before any changes were made to the content), 6.1 and 6.2 weren’t difficult. They were just ungodly long. That’s the only thing that could justifiably be altered still.
And I have no doubt that if you were in charge of the game, you wouldn’t have promised changes in the first place. Yet, here we are. They promised. They lied.
@Seatin himself said that he's not playing the game anymore! So I dont think his video is that much entitled to be discussed here. Its better to listen to other Youtubers who are regularly playing than this casual Youtuber. Granted Seatin was a voice of the players and made an okish list or tier or whatever but he WAS the voice. Now I dont think he's doing anything for the community except maybe putting a video in a week. Lastly Kabam are trying to do everything to better the game. Give it sometime!
He clearly said these were his opinions as a casual player.
If AW need to be shut down for a while, then so be it. I feel the only reason they keep Seasons alive is to appease to the top tier whales, which is ridiculous. As if they don’t make enough money from Cav crystals. A majority of the community don’t like Season as they are, so why keep it as it is?
For many it's the only game mode worth playing. Who enjoys AQ? It's the same paths, defenders, and fights 5 days a week.
for many, it’s stressful. AQ is a chore, you don’t like it necessarily but you do it for the rewards because “it’s the same paths, defenders”
This is the problem with this community. Alot here are saying that he is a casual player so his opinion doesnt matter. You all fail to realise that there are ALOT of casual players, who he speaks for. So, do they not matter? Is this game only for the tryhards? Smh
The summer 2020 roadmap came at a crucial time when discontent was high, just before a generous (and lucrative) July 4. I think it should honestly be re-examined to see where they’ve fallen back on their promises.
Off the top of my head, they promised these things that didn’t work out:
Nerfs to all attack values across 6.1 and 6.2. None were touched. Never gonna bother exploring act 6, personally.
More frequent variant content - canceled and returned to the usual schedule
Crystal/champion control - 4-star and 5-star dual class crystals were great. It has been nearly a year and a half. The 6-star pool has more champs than the 5-star pool iirc, and we’ve got an extra 30-35 champs released since the dual class crystal rollout. Do we have 6-star dual class crystals? Nope. Meaningful access to awakening gems? Nope. Any other crystals besides 300-unit cavaliers or 15,000-shard features to control our champion pool? Nope.
Dude, Act 6 was nerfed into the ground, what are you talking about?
They promised to nerf attack values for path fights and boss fights across the entire act. Every single fight in 6.1 and 6.2 has the exact same attack value as before. They made mostly-sideways adjustments to Crossbones, made Sinister and Mordo easier, and that was it for those two chapters IIRC.
I’m not gonna run 54 pain-in-the-*** paths of act 6 for a measly 25% t5cc and no meaningful amount of shards.
*If* anything further were to be done to the front half of Act 6, which to be clear I don’t think is necessary, it should not have anything to do with the attack values in 6.1 and 6.2. Instead, it should be reducing the total number of paths to 6 per quest rather than the current 10.
When I did my Act 6 exploration (which was well before any changes were made to the content), 6.1 and 6.2 weren’t difficult. They were just ungodly long. That’s the only thing that could justifiably be altered still.
And I have no doubt that if you were in charge of the game, you wouldn’t have promised changes in the first place. Yet, here we are. They promised. They lied.
I think we need to be more careful about declaring this a lie rather than a change of heart. At the time of the original statement, they likely did intend to reduce those attack values. It wasn’t until further review and testing of the content that they came to the conclusion that such changes were not, in fact, necessary or beneficial. You can, and many have, argued that this was an incorrect conclusion. But I don’t believe it to be a lie.
This is one of those things where it wouldn’t make sense as an intentional lie. What benefit would the company gain from making this promise knowing they had no intent to follow up on it? It makes far more sense that this was an instance of the right hand not knowing what the left was doing, which happens not infrequently because the Dev team and the Comms team are separate entities. Things get lost in the telephone game.
The summer 2020 roadmap came at a crucial time when discontent was high, just before a generous (and lucrative) July 4. I think it should honestly be re-examined to see where they’ve fallen back on their promises.
Off the top of my head, they promised these things that didn’t work out:
Nerfs to all attack values across 6.1 and 6.2. None were touched. Never gonna bother exploring act 6, personally.
More frequent variant content - canceled and returned to the usual schedule
Crystal/champion control - 4-star and 5-star dual class crystals were great. It has been nearly a year and a half. The 6-star pool has more champs than the 5-star pool iirc, and we’ve got an extra 30-35 champs released since the dual class crystal rollout. Do we have 6-star dual class crystals? Nope. Meaningful access to awakening gems? Nope. Any other crystals besides 300-unit cavaliers or 15,000-shard features to control our champion pool? Nope.
Edit: also, they botched the progression curve. It’s incredibly hard to get a 6r3. It’s even harder to get 6r4. Is it rewarding? Not very, and only in certain circumstances. It doesn’t make sense that we’re stuck with the same glory store with 5% t5 for 1500 glory when they gave away whole ones over the summer. And a new rank should never require two new resources. It’s quintessentially poor design. You can track from 4-stars all the way to present and it simply doesn’t happen anywhere else.
Off the top of my head:
1. I don't recall the developers specifically saying they were going to reduce attack values in 6.1 and 6.2 specifically, and if they did that was likely a misstatement, since the attack values in 6.1 and 6.2 were (as far as I recall) originally comparable to Act 5 values (it was health values that scaled higher in Act 6.1 and 6.2 than Act 5, and attack values soared far above Act 5 in 6.3 and 6.4 in my calculations).
2. The developers said they would give more player agency in champion crystals and they did. Dual class crystals were one way. An increase in Nexus-style crystals was another way. For high progression players they also released the 10-champ Nexus and just recently the 2020 selector crystal. That's plenty of additional options, actually.
3. Everyone perceives difficulty and the grind differently, but the progression curve for reaching 6* R3 is in relative terms pretty consistent with the rest of the game. Cavalier players have a lot of access to one-time T5CC rewards, from the Variants to Act 6 and 7 to the Abyss, depending on their skill level. They also get access to, on average, about 20% of a T5CC per month from monthly quest and side quest content. Assuming they do not spend on any offers anywhere, the time frame to get an R3 from scratch is less than a year even with below average luck. And that ignores one-off events like Summer of Pain. As to R4, that's currently the highest tier rank up in the game: it is going to be extremely difficult to do without spending or grinding in top tier content or both for a while. That's deliberate, and not a "botch." That's a necessity to prevent the power growth from exhausting the 6* rarity too quickly and forcing either 7* champs or some other higher tier progression point to be added to the game.
And please, explain how it is "poor design" that a new rank up requires two new resources. I seem to have that chapter missing from my game design handbook. If all you have is "track from 4-stars" then why aren't you complaining about the poor design choice to make R3s require only one T5CC? Maybe the devs should correct that mistake and make it require at least three.
The reason why you cannot extrapolate naively like that is because there is no continuous pattern to the rank and rarity tree. The problem is that 5* champs overlap 4* champs at 5* rank 3, but 6* champs overlap 5* champs at rank 2. Since rank up costs have to accommodate two different design pulls - resources used for comparable rank ups and resource escalation within a rarity - you're not going to find continuous consistent patterns from 3* to 4* to 5* to 6*.
Also: you're wrong. 4* rank 2->3 requires T1 Alpha catalysts and T3C catalysts: both of those are the first time those catalysts are used in a rank up.
The summer 2020 roadmap came at a crucial time when discontent was high, just before a generous (and lucrative) July 4. I think it should honestly be re-examined to see where they’ve fallen back on their promises.
Off the top of my head, they promised these things that didn’t work out:
Nerfs to all attack values across 6.1 and 6.2. None were touched. Never gonna bother exploring act 6, personally.
More frequent variant content - canceled and returned to the usual schedule
Crystal/champion control - 4-star and 5-star dual class crystals were great. It has been nearly a year and a half. The 6-star pool has more champs than the 5-star pool iirc, and we’ve got an extra 30-35 champs released since the dual class crystal rollout. Do we have 6-star dual class crystals? Nope. Meaningful access to awakening gems? Nope. Any other crystals besides 300-unit cavaliers or 15,000-shard features to control our champion pool? Nope.
Dude, Act 6 was nerfed into the ground, what are you talking about?
They promised to nerf attack values for path fights and boss fights across the entire act. Every single fight in 6.1 and 6.2 has the exact same attack value as before. They made mostly-sideways adjustments to Crossbones, made Sinister and Mordo easier, and that was it for those two chapters IIRC.
I’m not gonna run 54 pain-in-the-*** paths of act 6 for a measly 25% t5cc and no meaningful amount of shards.
*If* anything further were to be done to the front half of Act 6, which to be clear I don’t think is necessary, it should not have anything to do with the attack values in 6.1 and 6.2. Instead, it should be reducing the total number of paths to 6 per quest rather than the current 10.
When I did my Act 6 exploration (which was well before any changes were made to the content), 6.1 and 6.2 weren’t difficult. They were just ungodly long. That’s the only thing that could justifiably be altered still.
And I have no doubt that if you were in charge of the game, you wouldn’t have promised changes in the first place. Yet, here we are. They promised. They lied.
Road maps are not promises. And if players are going to call the devs liars, whether it is a player here on the forums or Seatin himself in a Youtube video, then the devs would be wise to stop talking to us entirely. Because that's a completely unreasonable burden which I would never accept. I could not recommend what I would not accept myself.
No one has been a bigger advocate for more communication with the devs. No one. But if this is the result of that communication, then it has all been for nothing, because we don't deserve it.
The summer 2020 roadmap came at a crucial time when discontent was high, just before a generous (and lucrative) July 4. I think it should honestly be re-examined to see where they’ve fallen back on their promises.
Off the top of my head, they promised these things that didn’t work out:
Nerfs to all attack values across 6.1 and 6.2. None were touched. Never gonna bother exploring act 6, personally.
More frequent variant content - canceled and returned to the usual schedule
Crystal/champion control - 4-star and 5-star dual class crystals were great. It has been nearly a year and a half. The 6-star pool has more champs than the 5-star pool iirc, and we’ve got an extra 30-35 champs released since the dual class crystal rollout. Do we have 6-star dual class crystals? Nope. Meaningful access to awakening gems? Nope. Any other crystals besides 300-unit cavaliers or 15,000-shard features to control our champion pool? Nope.
Dude, Act 6 was nerfed into the ground, what are you talking about?
They promised to nerf attack values for path fights and boss fights across the entire act. Every single fight in 6.1 and 6.2 has the exact same attack value as before. They made mostly-sideways adjustments to Crossbones, made Sinister and Mordo easier, and that was it for those two chapters IIRC.
I’m not gonna run 54 pain-in-the-*** paths of act 6 for a measly 25% t5cc and no meaningful amount of shards.
*If* anything further were to be done to the front half of Act 6, which to be clear I don’t think is necessary, it should not have anything to do with the attack values in 6.1 and 6.2. Instead, it should be reducing the total number of paths to 6 per quest rather than the current 10.
When I did my Act 6 exploration (which was well before any changes were made to the content), 6.1 and 6.2 weren’t difficult. They were just ungodly long. That’s the only thing that could justifiably be altered still.
And I have no doubt that if you were in charge of the game, you wouldn’t have promised changes in the first place. Yet, here we are. They promised. They lied.
Road maps are not promises. And if players are going to call the devs liars, whether it is a player here on the forums or Seatin himself in a Youtube video, then the devs would be wise to stop talking to us entirely. Because that's a completely unreasonable burden which I would never accept. I could not recommend what I would not accept myself.
No one has been a bigger advocate for more communication with the devs. No one. But if this is the result of that communication, then it has all been for nothing, because we don't deserve it.
We don't deserve a broken game for six months. We don't deserve a roadmap without updates on things getting delayed. We don't deserve the way certain Kabam employees respond to criticism. We are the paying customers. We should be treated with respect and transparency. Kabam owes the customer everything not the other way around. I think you forgot who pays the bills.
People are allowed to be upset. I think you are over reaching with calling them liars. Saying something and then not doing it or communicating updates is lying. Communication has always been Kabams Achilles Heel. They don't communicate enough, they don't take customer feedback well. It's not hard to keep players happy. Fix bugs, over communicate and work with the customers. Maybe spend some of that revenue into quality control testing as nearly every champion released is bugged. Pretty simple solution.
The summer 2020 roadmap came at a crucial time when discontent was high, just before a generous (and lucrative) July 4. I think it should honestly be re-examined to see where they’ve fallen back on their promises.
Off the top of my head, they promised these things that didn’t work out:
Nerfs to all attack values across 6.1 and 6.2. None were touched. Never gonna bother exploring act 6, personally.
More frequent variant content - canceled and returned to the usual schedule
Crystal/champion control - 4-star and 5-star dual class crystals were great. It has been nearly a year and a half. The 6-star pool has more champs than the 5-star pool iirc, and we’ve got an extra 30-35 champs released since the dual class crystal rollout. Do we have 6-star dual class crystals? Nope. Meaningful access to awakening gems? Nope. Any other crystals besides 300-unit cavaliers or 15,000-shard features to control our champion pool? Nope.
Dude, Act 6 was nerfed into the ground, what are you talking about?
They promised to nerf attack values for path fights and boss fights across the entire act. Every single fight in 6.1 and 6.2 has the exact same attack value as before. They made mostly-sideways adjustments to Crossbones, made Sinister and Mordo easier, and that was it for those two chapters IIRC.
I’m not gonna run 54 pain-in-the-*** paths of act 6 for a measly 25% t5cc and no meaningful amount of shards.
*If* anything further were to be done to the front half of Act 6, which to be clear I don’t think is necessary, it should not have anything to do with the attack values in 6.1 and 6.2. Instead, it should be reducing the total number of paths to 6 per quest rather than the current 10.
When I did my Act 6 exploration (which was well before any changes were made to the content), 6.1 and 6.2 weren’t difficult. They were just ungodly long. That’s the only thing that could justifiably be altered still.
And I have no doubt that if you were in charge of the game, you wouldn’t have promised changes in the first place. Yet, here we are. They promised. They lied.
Road maps are not promises. And if players are going to call the devs liars, whether it is a player here on the forums or Seatin himself in a Youtube video, then the devs would be wise to stop talking to us entirely. Because that's a completely unreasonable burden which I would never accept. I could not recommend what I would not accept myself.
No one has been a bigger advocate for more communication with the devs. No one. But if this is the result of that communication, then it has all been for nothing, because we don't deserve it.
The exact promise for the nerfs (which started almost immediately) were reduced attack values for path fights and boss fights across the entire act. It was crystal clear and unequivocal.
Maybe it’s harsh to say it was a lie, but making big promises just before big paydays, then having to be absolutely harassed in the forum to admit you’ve changed course months later…that’s not good communication or expectation management. And that’s what happened.
As to the game design piece…
Going to 4r3 - t3b, t3cc and t1a 4r4 - add t4b 4r5 - add t5cc 5r2 uses t4b, t3cc and t1a. 5r3 adds t4cc 5r4 adds t2a 5r5 adds t5b Going to 6r2 mirrors 5r5. 6r3 adds t5cc.
Introducing two new resources and rolling them out in random mismatched quantities when they can literally only be used for one thing right now? Makes no sense.
I mostly have no beef with the t5cc numbers. Because we’re talking about a singular resource, if Kabam had arbitrarily changed the design to require a different number, I believe they would’ve adjusted quantities accordingly. If it took 3-4 t5cc to do a rankup, the variants would give out a fully formed one instead of 25%. These 2% crystals might be a mix of 5’s and 10’s.
The only “complaint” I’d have about t5cc is that I might rather have two extra 6r3 than one 6r4. It depends on how future content evolves.
1. I don't recall the developers specifically saying they were going to reduce attack values in 6.1 and 6.2 specifically, and if they did that was likely a misstatement, since the attack values in 6.1 and 6.2 were (as far as I recall) originally comparable to Act 5 values (it was health values that scaled higher in Act 6.1 and 6.2 than Act 5, and attack values soared far above Act 5 in 6.3 and 6.4 in my calculations). .
Iirc they later said that the values in act 6.1&2 are fine as it is and will not be changed
And to supplement your faulty memory, here’s a screenshot from the roadmap that you can’t be bothered to Google for yourself.
6.1.5 Crossbones still has 12,000 attack IIRC.
Look, I’m not here complaining about relics and wish crystals. Those were remote, and the more distant something is, the more chance that a change is needed. These nerfs were promised and almost immediately reduced in scope without explanation or advisement.
The summer 2020 roadmap came at a crucial time when discontent was high, just before a generous (and lucrative) July 4. I think it should honestly be re-examined to see where they’ve fallen back on their promises.
Off the top of my head, they promised these things that didn’t work out:
Nerfs to all attack values across 6.1 and 6.2. None were touched. Never gonna bother exploring act 6, personally.
More frequent variant content - canceled and returned to the usual schedule
Crystal/champion control - 4-star and 5-star dual class crystals were great. It has been nearly a year and a half. The 6-star pool has more champs than the 5-star pool iirc, and we’ve got an extra 30-35 champs released since the dual class crystal rollout. Do we have 6-star dual class crystals? Nope. Meaningful access to awakening gems? Nope. Any other crystals besides 300-unit cavaliers or 15,000-shard features to control our champion pool? Nope.
Dude, Act 6 was nerfed into the ground, what are you talking about?
They promised to nerf attack values for path fights and boss fights across the entire act. Every single fight in 6.1 and 6.2 has the exact same attack value as before. They made mostly-sideways adjustments to Crossbones, made Sinister and Mordo easier, and that was it for those two chapters IIRC.
I’m not gonna run 54 pain-in-the-*** paths of act 6 for a measly 25% t5cc and no meaningful amount of shards.
*If* anything further were to be done to the front half of Act 6, which to be clear I don’t think is necessary, it should not have anything to do with the attack values in 6.1 and 6.2. Instead, it should be reducing the total number of paths to 6 per quest rather than the current 10.
When I did my Act 6 exploration (which was well before any changes were made to the content), 6.1 and 6.2 weren’t difficult. They were just ungodly long. That’s the only thing that could justifiably be altered still.
And I have no doubt that if you were in charge of the game, you wouldn’t have promised changes in the first place. Yet, here we are. They promised. They lied.
Road maps are not promises. And if players are going to call the devs liars, whether it is a player here on the forums or Seatin himself in a Youtube video, then the devs would be wise to stop talking to us entirely. Because that's a completely unreasonable burden which I would never accept. I could not recommend what I would not accept myself.
No one has been a bigger advocate for more communication with the devs. No one. But if this is the result of that communication, then it has all been for nothing, because we don't deserve it.
You know when I don’t call someone a liar? When they volunteer that they had to change course. When they volunteer why they changed course. Heck, when they at least provide an explanation when questioned, and I don’t mean after a week-plus of forum posts.
I know there’s a game to grow and promote, but if there are gonna be “roadmap updates” where members of the game team Pat themselves on the back so hard they separate their shoulders, there needs to be some accountability for clear promises that were abandoned.
And to supplement your faulty memory, here’s a screenshot from the roadmap that you can’t be bothered to Google for yourself.
Thanks. And since you can't be bothered to read or think for yourself, I'll return the favor. It says that attack values in 6.4 were going to be scaled down by 40-60%, bringing them down to "5k-9k on average." It then says that path fights in 6.1-6.3 would be "scaled down from that top value accordingly."
Someone could naively believe that meant that the attack values in 6.1-6.3 would also be scaled down by 40-60%, but that doesn't make sense. If that was the case, no one would say that. They would just say that all attack values would be scaled down by 40-60%. No one says I'm going to reduce this by 40%, and all of these things will be scaled down from that value accordingly, when they intend to scale everything down equally. "Scaled down from that top value" means the attack values in 6.1-6.3 would be adjusted to make sense given 6.4's adjusted values. For example, if this now meant that 6.3 attack values were higher than 6.4, that doesn't make sense: 6.3 should be equal to or less than 6.4, and 6.3 would need to be lowered.
6.3 originally had +500% attack, and 6.4 originally had +600% attack. That's been reduced to +300% attack in both cases. This reduces 6.3 attack values by 33% and 6.4 values by 43% (whomever wrote '40-60% was probably thinking about the reduction in the attack boosts, not the attack values). Given those values, what should the attack boost values in 6.1 and 6.2 be? They should be equal to or lower than +300%, and they already were: 6.1 has +200% attack and 6.2 has +250% attack. They were already scaled down relative to 6.4. 6.3 and 6.4 were so absurdly high they were completely disconnected from 6.1 and 6.2, and for that matter from everything else except for the OG 7.1 beta that never went live. So even after 6.3 and 6.4 were hammered, 6.1 and 6.2 were fine and didn't need to be lowered for them to "scale down" from 6.4. They already did that properly.
When you are attempting to communicate, you have to presume honest dealers. You can't realistically communicate with someone holding a dictionary and a calculator and looking for opportunities to call you a liar. You don't talk to such people at all. You assume the listener is going to put in at least as much effort comprehending as you do speaking. A reasonable recipient would say "that makes sense: 6.4 was lowered and everything else was brought more or less in line. It might not have been what I was expecting, but it still makes sense given what was said."
"They said they were going to reduce attack values and they didn't so they lied, cf: Websters" is honestly something I have to think long and hard about whether to respond to at all, because it is undeserving of a response from anyone, player or developer.
The last time around, I thought there was valid issues to discuss, and positive motion forward to be had. And I think positive motion forward did happen. The devs have stumbled a lot since then: I see them making a lot of both genuine mistakes and unforced errors. But I see them trying: trying to make content at a much higher rate than they were originally doing so, trying to make changes to improve the game that don't always succeed, but often do, and even trying to communicate more with the players than the nothing we used to get. I want what Kabam is trying to deliver, I just want them to do it a whole lot better than they have been.
I don't see the player community trying nearly as hard. It is all rights and deserves. We have a right to complain, we deserve more than what we get. Those are the complaints of children. What are we doing to make it better? We're not developers (at least not of this game) but that doesn't mean we can't make a better environment to encourage improvement, or make a worse environment to discourage it. At the end of the day, you're part of the problem or you're part of the solution. You have the right to be either. But you deserve the one you pursue.
And to supplement your faulty memory, here’s a screenshot from the roadmap that you can’t be bothered to Google for yourself.
Thanks. And since you can't be bothered to read or think for yourself, I'll return the favor. It says that attack values in 6.4 were going to be scaled down by 40-60%, bringing them down to "5k-9k on average." It then says that path fights in 6.1-6.3 would be "scaled down from that top value accordingly."
Someone could naively believe that meant that the attack values in 6.1-6.3 would also be scaled down by 40-60%, but that doesn't make sense. If that was the case, no one would say that. They would just say that all attack values would be scaled down by 40-60%. No one says I'm going to reduce this by 40%, and all of these things will be scaled down from that value accordingly, when they intend to scale everything down equally. "Scaled down from that top value" means the attack values in 6.1-6.3 would be adjusted to make sense given 6.4's adjusted values. For example, if this now meant that 6.3 attack values were higher than 6.4, that doesn't make sense: 6.3 should be equal to or less than 6.4, and 6.3 would need to be lowered.
6.3 originally had +500% attack, and 6.4 originally had +600% attack. That's been reduced to +300% attack in both cases. This reduces 6.3 attack values by 33% and 6.4 values by 43% (whomever wrote '40-60% was probably thinking about the reduction in the attack boosts, not the attack values). Given those values, what should the attack boost values in 6.1 and 6.2 be? They should be equal to or lower than +300%, and they already were: 6.1 has +200% attack and 6.2 has +250% attack. They were already scaled down relative to 6.4. 6.3 and 6.4 were so absurdly high they were completely disconnected from 6.1 and 6.2, and for that matter from everything else except for the OG 7.1 beta that never went live. So even after 6.3 and 6.4 were hammered, 6.1 and 6.2 were fine and didn't need to be lowered for them to "scale down" from 6.4. They already did that properly.
When you are attempting to communicate, you have to presume honest dealers. You can't realistically communicate with someone holding a dictionary and a calculator and looking for opportunities to call you a liar. You don't talk to such people at all. You assume the listener is going to put in at least as much effort comprehending as you do speaking. A reasonable recipient would say "that makes sense: 6.4 was lowered and everything else was brought more or less in line. It might not have been what I was expecting, but it still makes sense given what was said."
"They said they were going to reduce attack values and they didn't so they lied, cf: Websters" is honestly something I have to think long and hard about whether to respond to at all, because it is undeserving of a response from anyone, player or developer.
The last time around, I thought there was valid issues to discuss, and positive motion forward to be had. And I think positive motion forward did happen. The devs have stumbled a lot since then: I see them making a lot of both genuine mistakes and unforced errors. But I see them trying: trying to make content at a much higher rate than they were originally doing so, trying to make changes to improve the game that don't always succeed, but often do, and even trying to communicate more with the players than the nothing we used to get. I want what Kabam is trying to deliver, I just want them to do it a whole lot better than they have been.
I don't see the player community trying nearly as hard. It is all rights and deserves. We have a right to complain, we deserve more than what we get. Those are the complaints of children. What are we doing to make it better? We're not developers (at least not of this game) but that doesn't mean we can't make a better environment to encourage improvement, or make a worse environment to discourage it. At the end of the day, you're part of the problem or you're part of the solution. You have the right to be either. But you deserve the one you pursue.
Man, you said it better than I could.
Personally I'm not happy with the state of the game. All my log ins today were just to move in AQ (I still have variants to explore and 7.3 to complete but the general state of the game and the bitter experience with Cav eq leaves me with no motivation to do any of them)
However, I cringe every single time I see all the "deserves" and "rights". A lot of people here act like Kabam is a corrupt politician or something they can drag to the court to answer for all their "mistakes" and "lies" (Terrible analogy but it's the best I could come up after waking up)
The summer 2020 roadmap came at a crucial time when discontent was high, just before a generous (and lucrative) July 4. I think it should honestly be re-examined to see where they’ve fallen back on their promises.
Off the top of my head, they promised these things that didn’t work out:
Nerfs to all attack values across 6.1 and 6.2. None were touched. Never gonna bother exploring act 6, personally.
More frequent variant content - canceled and returned to the usual schedule
Crystal/champion control - 4-star and 5-star dual class crystals were great. It has been nearly a year and a half. The 6-star pool has more champs than the 5-star pool iirc, and we’ve got an extra 30-35 champs released since the dual class crystal rollout. Do we have 6-star dual class crystals? Nope. Meaningful access to awakening gems? Nope. Any other crystals besides 300-unit cavaliers or 15,000-shard features to control our champion pool? Nope.
Dude, Act 6 was nerfed into the ground, what are you talking about?
They promised to nerf attack values for path fights and boss fights across the entire act. Every single fight in 6.1 and 6.2 has the exact same attack value as before. They made mostly-sideways adjustments to Crossbones, made Sinister and Mordo easier, and that was it for those two chapters IIRC.
I’m not gonna run 54 pain-in-the-*** paths of act 6 for a measly 25% t5cc and no meaningful amount of shards.
*If* anything further were to be done to the front half of Act 6, which to be clear I don’t think is necessary, it should not have anything to do with the attack values in 6.1 and 6.2. Instead, it should be reducing the total number of paths to 6 per quest rather than the current 10.
When I did my Act 6 exploration (which was well before any changes were made to the content), 6.1 and 6.2 weren’t difficult. They were just ungodly long. That’s the only thing that could justifiably be altered still.
And I have no doubt that if you were in charge of the game, you wouldn’t have promised changes in the first place. Yet, here we are. They promised. They lied.
Road maps are not promises. And if players are going to call the devs liars, whether it is a player here on the forums or Seatin himself in a Youtube video, then the devs would be wise to stop talking to us entirely. Because that's a completely unreasonable burden which I would never accept. I could not recommend what I would not accept myself.
No one has been a bigger advocate for more communication with the devs. No one. But if this is the result of that communication, then it has all been for nothing, because we don't deserve it.
Don't deserve it? 😂😂 People like my self PAY for the game. You obviously don't need to, but it's nice to be able to support the game that you play. And if you do pay, you want the game to work, and when it doesn't you get mad.
Anger, disappointment, joy, any type of reaction towards the game, it's progress, and how it functions should be able to be displayed in any way possible.
The summer 2020 roadmap came at a crucial time when discontent was high, just before a generous (and lucrative) July 4. I think it should honestly be re-examined to see where they’ve fallen back on their promises.
Off the top of my head, they promised these things that didn’t work out:
Nerfs to all attack values across 6.1 and 6.2. None were touched. Never gonna bother exploring act 6, personally.
More frequent variant content - canceled and returned to the usual schedule
Crystal/champion control - 4-star and 5-star dual class crystals were great. It has been nearly a year and a half. The 6-star pool has more champs than the 5-star pool iirc, and we’ve got an extra 30-35 champs released since the dual class crystal rollout. Do we have 6-star dual class crystals? Nope. Meaningful access to awakening gems? Nope. Any other crystals besides 300-unit cavaliers or 15,000-shard features to control our champion pool? Nope.
Dude, Act 6 was nerfed into the ground, what are you talking about?
They promised to nerf attack values for path fights and boss fights across the entire act. Every single fight in 6.1 and 6.2 has the exact same attack value as before. They made mostly-sideways adjustments to Crossbones, made Sinister and Mordo easier, and that was it for those two chapters IIRC.
I’m not gonna run 54 pain-in-the-*** paths of act 6 for a measly 25% t5cc and no meaningful amount of shards.
*If* anything further were to be done to the front half of Act 6, which to be clear I don’t think is necessary, it should not have anything to do with the attack values in 6.1 and 6.2. Instead, it should be reducing the total number of paths to 6 per quest rather than the current 10.
When I did my Act 6 exploration (which was well before any changes were made to the content), 6.1 and 6.2 weren’t difficult. They were just ungodly long. That’s the only thing that could justifiably be altered still.
And I have no doubt that if you were in charge of the game, you wouldn’t have promised changes in the first place. Yet, here we are. They promised. They lied.
Road maps are not promises. And if players are going to call the devs liars, whether it is a player here on the forums or Seatin himself in a Youtube video, then the devs would be wise to stop talking to us entirely. Because that's a completely unreasonable burden which I would never accept. I could not recommend what I would not accept myself.
No one has been a bigger advocate for more communication with the devs. No one. But if this is the result of that communication, then it has all been for nothing, because we don't deserve it.
Don't deserve it? 😂😂 People like my self PAY for the game. You obviously don't need to, but it's nice to be able to support the game that you play. And if you do pay, you want the game to work, and when it doesn't you get mad.
Anger, disappointment, joy, any type of reaction towards the game, it's progress, and how it functions should be able to be displayed in any way possible.
He's talking about communication. If we're negating that process by being immovable and unreasonable, then we're not respecting the communication we fought for. Also, spending doesn't equal shares in the company.
Seatin: *Spends 10K a month on MCOC...gets everything. rushes to complete content 2 days after release for "first!" content. Whines about the game being boring.* Super hard to take him seriously.
Seatin: *Spends 10K a month on MCOC...gets everything. rushes to complete content 2 days after release for "first!" content. Whines about the game being boring.* Super hard to take him seriously.
You obviously don’t understand the video then. Should go hang out with danielmath
Seatin: *Spends 10K a month on MCOC...gets everything. rushes to complete content 2 days after release for "first!" content. Whines about the game being boring.* Super hard to take him seriously.
If you think seatins rushing to complete content 2 days after release I'm guessing you've been out of touch for a while.
And spending isn't as big a factor as you think it is, they're plenty people who don't spend and have everything done in the game. For them the only thing is AW which is either bugged or stale and AQ with it's outdated glory store.
If you can't see it from his perspective that's fine, doesn't make anything he's said less valid though
The summer 2020 roadmap came at a crucial time when discontent was high, just before a generous (and lucrative) July 4. I think it should honestly be re-examined to see where they’ve fallen back on their promises.
Off the top of my head, they promised these things that didn’t work out:
Nerfs to all attack values across 6.1 and 6.2. None were touched. Never gonna bother exploring act 6, personally.
More frequent variant content - canceled and returned to the usual schedule
Crystal/champion control - 4-star and 5-star dual class crystals were great. It has been nearly a year and a half. The 6-star pool has more champs than the 5-star pool iirc, and we’ve got an extra 30-35 champs released since the dual class crystal rollout. Do we have 6-star dual class crystals? Nope. Meaningful access to awakening gems? Nope. Any other crystals besides 300-unit cavaliers or 15,000-shard features to control our champion pool? Nope.
Dude, Act 6 was nerfed into the ground, what are you talking about?
They promised to nerf attack values for path fights and boss fights across the entire act. Every single fight in 6.1 and 6.2 has the exact same attack value as before. They made mostly-sideways adjustments to Crossbones, made Sinister and Mordo easier, and that was it for those two chapters IIRC.
I’m not gonna run 54 pain-in-the-*** paths of act 6 for a measly 25% t5cc and no meaningful amount of shards.
*If* anything further were to be done to the front half of Act 6, which to be clear I don’t think is necessary, it should not have anything to do with the attack values in 6.1 and 6.2. Instead, it should be reducing the total number of paths to 6 per quest rather than the current 10.
When I did my Act 6 exploration (which was well before any changes were made to the content), 6.1 and 6.2 weren’t difficult. They were just ungodly long. That’s the only thing that could justifiably be altered still.
And I have no doubt that if you were in charge of the game, you wouldn’t have promised changes in the first place. Yet, here we are. They promised. They lied.
Road maps are not promises. And if players are going to call the devs liars, whether it is a player here on the forums or Seatin himself in a Youtube video, then the devs would be wise to stop talking to us entirely. Because that's a completely unreasonable burden which I would never accept. I could not recommend what I would not accept myself.
No one has been a bigger advocate for more communication with the devs. No one. But if this is the result of that communication, then it has all been for nothing, because we don't deserve it.
Don't deserve it? 😂😂 People like my self PAY for the game. You obviously don't need to, but it's nice to be able to support the game that you play. And if you do pay, you want the game to work, and when it doesn't you get mad.
Anger, disappointment, joy, any type of reaction towards the game, it's progress, and how it functions should be able to be displayed in any way possible.
He's talking about communication. If we're negating that process by being immovable and unreasonable, then we're not respecting the communication we fought for. Also, spending doesn't equal shares in the company.
Yes. Because wanting a game that works is unreasonable. 🤔😂.
And when something good comes out, we're quite quick to point out how pleased we are with Kabam.
And no that wasn't his point, he was saying that voice in our opinions and having voice our troubles with the game, and they "fix it" (doesn't mean they're fixing it the right way) and we bring that up to kabam's attention, that we don't deserve the changes that we wanted in the first place. Which is re******.
And you obviously have no idea how a business functions, when a business brings in money, the share price goes up because the worth goes up.
So no, spending ABSOLUTELY has something to do with the share price. Don't be a not-smart person
It's as if you didn't even read what he said. Yes, spending affects the company. What it doesn't do is give us entitlement to decide what the company does. We're leasing permission to use their product as they choose to present it. We claim no ownership. That much is in the ToS. Does it matter what we say and how we feel? Obviously. They've also gone out of their way to take our feedback into consideration. That's what's not being acknowledged. They do communicate, and no one wants the game to function more than them. It's their livelihood. However, spending money doesn't permit us to demand perfection, and it doesn't give us the right to ignore their efforts. If we expect and give no respect in return, there's a term for that.
Comments
When I did my Act 6 exploration (which was well before any changes were made to the content), 6.1 and 6.2 weren’t difficult. They were just ungodly long. That’s the only thing that could justifiably be altered still.
This is one of those things where it wouldn’t make sense as an intentional lie. What benefit would the company gain from making this promise knowing they had no intent to follow up on it? It makes far more sense that this was an instance of the right hand not knowing what the left was doing, which happens not infrequently because the Dev team and the Comms team are separate entities. Things get lost in the telephone game.
1. I don't recall the developers specifically saying they were going to reduce attack values in 6.1 and 6.2 specifically, and if they did that was likely a misstatement, since the attack values in 6.1 and 6.2 were (as far as I recall) originally comparable to Act 5 values (it was health values that scaled higher in Act 6.1 and 6.2 than Act 5, and attack values soared far above Act 5 in 6.3 and 6.4 in my calculations).
2. The developers said they would give more player agency in champion crystals and they did. Dual class crystals were one way. An increase in Nexus-style crystals was another way. For high progression players they also released the 10-champ Nexus and just recently the 2020 selector crystal. That's plenty of additional options, actually.
3. Everyone perceives difficulty and the grind differently, but the progression curve for reaching 6* R3 is in relative terms pretty consistent with the rest of the game. Cavalier players have a lot of access to one-time T5CC rewards, from the Variants to Act 6 and 7 to the Abyss, depending on their skill level. They also get access to, on average, about 20% of a T5CC per month from monthly quest and side quest content. Assuming they do not spend on any offers anywhere, the time frame to get an R3 from scratch is less than a year even with below average luck. And that ignores one-off events like Summer of Pain. As to R4, that's currently the highest tier rank up in the game: it is going to be extremely difficult to do without spending or grinding in top tier content or both for a while. That's deliberate, and not a "botch." That's a necessity to prevent the power growth from exhausting the 6* rarity too quickly and forcing either 7* champs or some other higher tier progression point to be added to the game.
And please, explain how it is "poor design" that a new rank up requires two new resources. I seem to have that chapter missing from my game design handbook. If all you have is "track from 4-stars" then why aren't you complaining about the poor design choice to make R3s require only one T5CC? Maybe the devs should correct that mistake and make it require at least three.
The reason why you cannot extrapolate naively like that is because there is no continuous pattern to the rank and rarity tree. The problem is that 5* champs overlap 4* champs at 5* rank 3, but 6* champs overlap 5* champs at rank 2. Since rank up costs have to accommodate two different design pulls - resources used for comparable rank ups and resource escalation within a rarity - you're not going to find continuous consistent patterns from 3* to 4* to 5* to 6*.
Also: you're wrong. 4* rank 2->3 requires T1 Alpha catalysts and T3C catalysts: both of those are the first time those catalysts are used in a rank up.
No one has been a bigger advocate for more communication with the devs. No one. But if this is the result of that communication, then it has all been for nothing, because we don't deserve it.
People are allowed to be upset. I think you are over reaching with calling them liars.
Saying something and then not doing it or communicating updates is lying. Communication has always been Kabams Achilles Heel. They don't communicate enough, they don't take customer feedback well. It's not hard to keep players happy. Fix bugs, over communicate and work with the customers. Maybe spend some of that revenue into quality control testing as nearly every champion released is bugged. Pretty simple solution.
Maybe it’s harsh to say it was a lie, but making big promises just before big paydays, then having to be absolutely harassed in the forum to admit you’ve changed course months later…that’s not good communication or expectation management. And that’s what happened.
As to the game design piece…
Going to 4r3 - t3b, t3cc and t1a
4r4 - add t4b
4r5 - add t5cc
5r2 uses t4b, t3cc and t1a.
5r3 adds t4cc
5r4 adds t2a
5r5 adds t5b
Going to 6r2 mirrors 5r5. 6r3 adds t5cc.
Introducing two new resources and rolling them out in random mismatched quantities when they can literally only be used for one thing right now? Makes no sense.
I mostly have no beef with the t5cc numbers. Because we’re talking about a singular resource, if Kabam had arbitrarily changed the design to require a different number, I believe they would’ve adjusted quantities accordingly. If it took 3-4 t5cc to do a rankup, the variants would give out a fully formed one instead of 25%. These 2% crystals might be a mix of 5’s and 10’s.
The only “complaint” I’d have about t5cc is that I might rather have two extra 6r3 than one 6r4. It depends on how future content evolves.
Iirc they later said that the values in act 6.1&2 are fine as it is and will not be changed
6.1.5 Crossbones still has 12,000 attack IIRC.
Look, I’m not here complaining about relics and wish crystals. Those were remote, and the more distant something is, the more chance that a change is needed. These nerfs were promised and almost immediately reduced in scope without explanation or advisement.
I know there’s a game to grow and promote, but if there are gonna be “roadmap updates” where members of the game team Pat themselves on the back so hard they separate their shoulders, there needs to be some accountability for clear promises that were abandoned.
Someone could naively believe that meant that the attack values in 6.1-6.3 would also be scaled down by 40-60%, but that doesn't make sense. If that was the case, no one would say that. They would just say that all attack values would be scaled down by 40-60%. No one says I'm going to reduce this by 40%, and all of these things will be scaled down from that value accordingly, when they intend to scale everything down equally. "Scaled down from that top value" means the attack values in 6.1-6.3 would be adjusted to make sense given 6.4's adjusted values. For example, if this now meant that 6.3 attack values were higher than 6.4, that doesn't make sense: 6.3 should be equal to or less than 6.4, and 6.3 would need to be lowered.
6.3 originally had +500% attack, and 6.4 originally had +600% attack. That's been reduced to +300% attack in both cases. This reduces 6.3 attack values by 33% and 6.4 values by 43% (whomever wrote '40-60% was probably thinking about the reduction in the attack boosts, not the attack values). Given those values, what should the attack boost values in 6.1 and 6.2 be? They should be equal to or lower than +300%, and they already were: 6.1 has +200% attack and 6.2 has +250% attack. They were already scaled down relative to 6.4. 6.3 and 6.4 were so absurdly high they were completely disconnected from 6.1 and 6.2, and for that matter from everything else except for the OG 7.1 beta that never went live. So even after 6.3 and 6.4 were hammered, 6.1 and 6.2 were fine and didn't need to be lowered for them to "scale down" from 6.4. They already did that properly.
When you are attempting to communicate, you have to presume honest dealers. You can't realistically communicate with someone holding a dictionary and a calculator and looking for opportunities to call you a liar. You don't talk to such people at all. You assume the listener is going to put in at least as much effort comprehending as you do speaking. A reasonable recipient would say "that makes sense: 6.4 was lowered and everything else was brought more or less in line. It might not have been what I was expecting, but it still makes sense given what was said."
"They said they were going to reduce attack values and they didn't so they lied, cf: Websters" is honestly something I have to think long and hard about whether to respond to at all, because it is undeserving of a response from anyone, player or developer.
The last time around, I thought there was valid issues to discuss, and positive motion forward to be had. And I think positive motion forward did happen. The devs have stumbled a lot since then: I see them making a lot of both genuine mistakes and unforced errors. But I see them trying: trying to make content at a much higher rate than they were originally doing so, trying to make changes to improve the game that don't always succeed, but often do, and even trying to communicate more with the players than the nothing we used to get. I want what Kabam is trying to deliver, I just want them to do it a whole lot better than they have been.
I don't see the player community trying nearly as hard. It is all rights and deserves. We have a right to complain, we deserve more than what we get. Those are the complaints of children. What are we doing to make it better? We're not developers (at least not of this game) but that doesn't mean we can't make a better environment to encourage improvement, or make a worse environment to discourage it. At the end of the day, you're part of the problem or you're part of the solution. You have the right to be either. But you deserve the one you pursue.
Personally I'm not happy with the state of the game. All my log ins today were just to move in AQ (I still have variants to explore and 7.3 to complete but the general state of the game and the bitter experience with Cav eq leaves me with no motivation to do any of them)
However, I cringe every single time I see all the "deserves" and "rights". A lot of people here act like Kabam is a corrupt politician or something they can drag to the court to answer for all their "mistakes" and "lies" (Terrible analogy but it's the best I could come up after waking up)
Anger, disappointment, joy, any type of reaction towards the game, it's progress, and how it functions should be able to be displayed in any way possible.
*Spends 10K a month on MCOC...gets everything. rushes to complete content 2 days after release for "first!" content. Whines about the game being boring.* Super hard to take him seriously.
And spending isn't as big a factor as you think it is, they're plenty people who don't spend and have everything done in the game. For them the only thing is AW which is either bugged or stale and AQ with it's outdated glory store.
If you can't see it from his perspective that's fine, doesn't make anything he's said less valid though
Yes, spending affects the company. What it doesn't do is give us entitlement to decide what the company does. We're leasing permission to use their product as they choose to present it. We claim no ownership. That much is in the ToS. Does it matter what we say and how we feel? Obviously. They've also gone out of their way to take our feedback into consideration. That's what's not being acknowledged. They do communicate, and no one wants the game to function more than them. It's their livelihood. However, spending money doesn't permit us to demand perfection, and it doesn't give us the right to ignore their efforts. If we expect and give no respect in return, there's a term for that.