Why do Unavoidable Damage Nodes exist?

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Comments

  • BuggyDClownBuggyDClown Member Posts: 2,307 ★★★★★
    Gulk smash
  • _Kill_Switch__Kill_Switch_ Member Posts: 275 ★★

    The best arguments i’ve seen against this post so far are:
    AoN heals the damage you took when it expires (fine by me, I like this node)
    AoG can be reversed and used to heal (again, I like this node. Usually I just time my special/combo to kill the opponent before AoG activates.)
    “Just use a regen champ”

    Direct Damage and Starburst are lazy. There used to be a somewhat large chunk of the community who agreed, at least, if I remember correctly. I like nodes where you have to actually put forth an effort to counter it. “Just use a regen champ”, while true to an extent (you aren’t avoiding the damage, just reducing the toll it takes on your champions), is just lazy fight/node design. I’d like to see it get replaced, maybe with nodes like No Retreat or Flare (Yes, I’m aware Flare is unavoidable damage, but it provides you with an extra tool to defeat your opponent) that actually encourage you to play skillfully and strategically so you avoid the damage.

    Just my opinion. God bless.

    Couldn't agree more.
  • TimeGenesisTimeGenesis Member Posts: 732 ★★★
    edited February 2022
    Aburaees said:



    A skilled player isn’t going to start that fight with only 1% health.

    Fact is, if you go into that fight (direct damage or starburst) with health, you come out with less health regardless of skill.

    I always go in at 1% for herc 🙃





    Oh and btw mini and linked boss included

    and I take those "unavoidable damage" lanes your talking about
  • KingInBlackKingInBlack Member Posts: 324 ★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    The best arguments i’ve seen against this post so far are:
    AoN heals the damage you took when it expires (fine by me, I like this node)
    AoG can be reversed and used to heal (again, I like this node. Usually I just time my special/combo to kill the opponent before AoG activates.)
    “Just use a regen champ”

    Direct Damage and Starburst are lazy. There used to be a somewhat large chunk of the community who agreed, at least, if I remember correctly. I like nodes where you have to actually put forth an effort to counter it. “Just use a regen champ”, while true to an extent (you aren’t avoiding the damage, just reducing the toll it takes on your champions), is just lazy fight/node design. I’d like to see it get replaced, maybe with nodes like No Retreat or Flare (Yes, I’m aware Flare is unavoidable damage, but it provides you with an extra tool to defeat your opponent) that actually encourage you to play skillfully and strategically so you avoid the damage.

    Just my opinion. God bless.

    This is an interesting position. So what is regen for? There's an Electro on Map 5 that I regularly take down on my secondary alt account. I don't have many AAR options in that account, so I use X-23. I can outheal the strikeback damage *if* I don't get hit by specials and *if* I don't use specials myself, keeping my power high so my regen is working at maximum efficiency. If I do both things, I win. If I don't, I die.

    For me, that damage is unavoidable. But I'm using knowledge and skill to beat the fight. By your assessment, this is being "lazy." The design of the fight is lazy because it presents damage to a player they cannot avoid, and my solution to the problem is lazy because I'm just using regen to beat it.

    I suspect most players in my position would tend to disagree with your characterization, as I suspect most Map 6 runners who do these paths would likewise say their solution to these fights isn't lazy, and thus the fight design itself isn't necessarily lazy, because it presents a requirement that roster, knowledge, and skill can collectively overcome.
    Equating the direct damage node with electro isn't really an even comparison and your alt lacking the options that cancel out his reflect damage doesn't mean it can't be countered. Tbh it's odd seeing you base an entire argument on an obviously false equivalence. Direct damage node is lazy compared to a champions ability with a dozen (more probably) hard counters. Regen mitigates the damage, I run this lane on map 6 and just play through it because I can, doesn't make it a well designed node. "Here's some damage, have fun" isn't nearly the knowledge and skill magnet you make it out to be. I don't feel like I'm being presented a challenge to overcome, just a minor annoyance along my way.
  • ErothEroth Member Posts: 24
    edited February 2022
    can spiderham be a counter?
  • AburaeesAburaees Member Posts: 514 ★★★

    Aburaees said:



    A skilled player isn’t going to start that fight with only 1% health.

    Fact is, if you go into that fight (direct damage or starburst) with health, you come out with less health regardless of skill.

    I always go in at 1% for herc 🙃





    Oh and btw mini and linked boss included

    and I take those "unavoidable damage" lanes your talking about
    You lose Hercules’ entire health pool before you get to the direct damage fight?

    Your screenshot shows your whole team almost KO’d, and you have 11m points. That might happen by the end of the quest, but not going into the direct damage fight.

    But thanks for proving you didn’t avoid the damage.
  • MaxGamingMaxGaming Member Posts: 3,211 ★★★★★
    edited February 2022
    Terra said:

    All of these are avoidable or counter-able

    With maybe 2-4 Champs
    No? Direct Damage and Starbust can be outhealed,
    And AoN and AoG can be survived by basically everyone.
    I love how in the future of MCoC everyone will be talking about the nodes and all the people will be like
    .
    "yo i need help countung the MoTRI node on book 3 2.4.6 boss node"
  • World EaterWorld Eater Member Posts: 3,711 ★★★★★
    edited February 2022
    You should fought those nodes a few years ago before we had more options and degeneration immune champs. They’re much easier now
  • RasiloverRasilover Member Posts: 1,475 ★★★★
    Those nodes are literally nothing to fear about lol
  • SaltE_Wenis69SaltE_Wenis69 Member Posts: 1,993 ★★★★

    Terra said:

    All of these are avoidable or counter-able

    With maybe 2-4 Champs
    No? Direct Damage and Starbust can be outhealed,
    And AoN and AoG can be survived by basically everyone.
    But what is the point of taking this damage?
    yeah why not make every node obsolete and every champ do no damage?
  • spigwenderspigwender Member Posts: 473 ★★★

    Gladiator Hulk

    … does not work for the Direct Damage node
  • spigwenderspigwender Member Posts: 473 ★★★
    edited February 2022
    DNA3000 said:

    The best arguments i’ve seen against this post so far are:
    AoN heals the damage you took when it expires (fine by me, I like this node)
    AoG can be reversed and used to heal (again, I like this node. Usually I just time my special/combo to kill the opponent before AoG activates.)
    “Just use a regen champ”

    Direct Damage and Starburst are lazy. There used to be a somewhat large chunk of the community who agreed, at least, if I remember correctly. I like nodes where you have to actually put forth an effort to counter it. “Just use a regen champ”, while true to an extent (you aren’t avoiding the damage, just reducing the toll it takes on your champions), is just lazy fight/node design. I’d like to see it get replaced, maybe with nodes like No Retreat or Flare (Yes, I’m aware Flare is unavoidable damage, but it provides you with an extra tool to defeat your opponent) that actually encourage you to play skillfully and strategically so you avoid the damage.

    Just my opinion. God bless.

    This is an interesting position. So what is regen for? There's an Electro on Map 5 that I regularly take down on my secondary alt account. I don't have many AAR options in that account, so I use X-23. I can outheal the strikeback damage *if* I don't get hit by specials and *if* I don't use specials myself, keeping my power high so my regen is working at maximum efficiency. If I do both things, I win. If I don't, I die.

    For me, that damage is unavoidable. But I'm using knowledge and skill to beat the fight. By your assessment, this is being "lazy." The design of the fight is lazy because it presents damage to a player they cannot avoid, and my solution to the problem is lazy because I'm just using regen to beat it.

    I suspect most players in my position would tend to disagree with your characterization, as I suspect most Map 6 runners who do these paths would likewise say their solution to these fights isn't lazy, and thus the fight design itself isn't necessarily lazy, because it presents a requirement that roster, knowledge, and skill can collectively overcome.
    I do take these paths in Map 6. Frequently. I don’t see how I am a “skilled player” or a “knowledgeable player” due to the sole fact that I can bring in a character that can regenerate the Direct Damage node damage. I’m not saying the player is lazy for doing all they can to overcome the node with minimal damage taken. I don’t recall saying it, and if my words can be interpreted as such, it is not what I meant. I meant it is lazy to just say “You take damage” and call it a day. Even if the player can just bring in a regeneration champion. With the flare node, or no retreat, you CAN work around the damage, and minimize it, with most if not all characters. With No Retreat, know your opponents specials. Know the timing of the hits, what hits are best to dodge and what hits are best to block, get better at “re-parry” if you need to block consecutive hits. With Flare, if you don’t have a life steal champion or a champion with regeneration mechanics, go in and finish off your opponent ASAP aided by a 300% attack boost. Your electro strategy with X-23 is very smart though, props to you for that. I do believe electro has a lot more options for counters though. Energy resistance, AAR, DOT, Regeneration, Non-contact attacks. It’s not just regeneration that can handle it.

    As for the question, “What is regen for?”, I believe it is quite simple. What are health potions for? To top up your champion’s health. Just like health potions, a lot of players are so good that they may not need their favorite champion’s regeneration mechanic. Regeneration obviously does not have one specific use, but has a general use. To replenish health.

    Again, just giving my thoughts. God bless.
  • spigwenderspigwender Member Posts: 473 ★★★

    You should fought those nodes a few years ago before we had more options and degeneration immune champs. They’re much easier now

    I do agree with this, but I still believe they are unnecessary considering where and how they are used now.
  • GrassKnucklesGrassKnuckles Member Posts: 1,937 ★★★★★
    I did not expect this to be such a debate...
  • AverageDesiAverageDesi Member Posts: 5,260 ★★★★★

    I did not expect this to be such a debate...

    Here in the forums people can debate about something that does not even exist in the game
  • Kpratish1997Kpratish1997 Member Posts: 122
    Use corvus. Fight will be over before you'll take any meaningful damage.
  • Kevo9513Kevo9513 Member Posts: 356 ★★
    They exist to kill you.
  • AntsiouAntsiou Member Posts: 184 ★★
    What about infinite blast.
    This node has 0 counter, you literally enter the fight and get a portion of health taken away.
    Doesn’t matter if you can heal it back. It’s unavoidable (maybe with class advantage, not sure).
  • TerraTerra Member Posts: 8,364 ★★★★★
    Antsiou said:

    What about infinite blast.
    This node has 0 counter, you literally enter the fight and get a portion of health taken away.
    Doesn’t matter if you can heal it back. It’s unavoidable (maybe with class advantage, not sure).

    You can mitigate the damage with class advantage, but that's about it.
    Thankfully, that node hasn't been used in any meaningful content for years
  • DarkEternityDarkEternity Member Posts: 785 ★★★★
    Graves_3 said:

    All of these are avoidable or counter-able

    Direct damage is not avoidable as far as I know. It’s counter-able with a high regen champ or duped corvus. Do you know of any champs that can avoid it altogether?
    CMM sig, Ghulk counters Starburst, Herc’s immortality, Namor, etc
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