Firstly, you said unavoidable so I don’t think that’s accurate if it’s able to be countered, I.e. avoided
Direct damage Namor, ghost with hood synergy, Kitty Pryde, Hercules, Corvus, Blade, Kingpin, CMM (if the fight is short enough), King groot, Diablo, BWCV, Morningstar, wolverine/x23, VTD heals that kick in at low health can survive it.
This list of champs almost makes the question look stupid, but I wouldn’t call the damage avoidable if triggers an immortality mechanic (Hercules and Corvus). I wouldn’t call the damage avoidable if it relies on 100% uptime of phase (Kitty and Ghost), nor if it relies on the attacker being on the attack for 100% of the fight (Namor). What you’ve listed are champs that can survive the fight, but still take damage in the process. What the OP would like is to be able to perform a flawless victory.
No, they don’t avoid every tick of damage, but so what?
Because that’s what unavoidable actually means.
OP expressed a distaste for unavoidable damage, gave two genuine examples, and was subsequently told he had none.
Firstly, you said unavoidable so I don’t think that’s accurate if it’s able to be countered, I.e. avoided
Direct damage Namor, ghost with hood synergy, Kitty Pryde, Hercules, Corvus, Blade, Kingpin, CMM (if the fight is short enough), King groot, Diablo, BWCV, Morningstar, wolverine/x23, VTD heals that kick in at low health can survive it.
This list of champs almost makes the question look stupid, but I wouldn’t call the damage avoidable if triggers an immortality mechanic (Hercules and Corvus). I wouldn’t call the damage avoidable if it relies on 100% uptime of phase (Kitty and Ghost), nor if it relies on the attacker being on the attack for 100% of the fight (Namor). What you’ve listed are champs that can survive the fight, but still take damage in the process. What the OP would like is to be able to perform a flawless victory.
No, they don’t avoid every tick of damage, but so what?
Because that’s what unavoidable actually means.
OP expressed a distaste for unavoidable damage, gave two genuine examples, and was subsequently told he had none.
That’s all.
I disagree. You’re viewing unavoidable as a binary 1 or 0. Either you are able to avoid every piece of damage or it’s unavoidable damage. If you entered a fight and took 1 tick of 1 damage by your definition that would be unavoidable.
In an unrealistic world of technicality and being right on paper, sure, the literal definition is that some of these ticks of damage are unavoidable, and you may take some damage.
But what it is closer to, is a scale. Damage can be on this scale of “avoidability” (yes I just made that word up). If a champion can avoid half of this damage with indestructible, and this damage would do 100% of your health, guess what, you’ve avoided half of the damage. If you can regen more than the damage is being done then you’re net healing/avoiding the damage.
Fights and nodes present challenges, we use champions and abilities to counter or avoid those challenges. Someone saying starburst is unavoidable damage is forgetting that Mr Negative can take 0 damage from it, Spider Ham can take 0 damage from it, I hulk can store 60% of the damage as health, Herc can survive on 1% health, Ghost can avoid the damage, so on and so forth. Claiming these challenges are unavoidable and therefore unfair is silly, you can avoid so much of that damage that it is no longer a challenge and easy to survive.
As I’ve said before, not every fight or node needs to be easily countered by every champ. This is all part of the game, and it’s not going to go away.
I disagree. You’re viewing unavoidable as a binary 1 or 0. Either you are able to avoid every piece of damage or it’s unavoidable damage. If you entered a fight and took 1 tick of 1 damage by your definition that would be unavoidable.
In an unrealistic world of technicality and being right on paper, sure, the literal definition is that some of these ticks of damage are unavoidable, and you may take some damage.
Yes. Avoidable/unavoidable is a binary. Everything in between is partially avoidable.
But what it is closer to, is a scale. Damage can be on this scale of “avoidability” (yes I just made that word up). If a champion can avoid half of this damage with indestructible, and this damage would do 100% of your health, guess what, you’ve avoided half of the damage. If you can regen more than the damage is being done then you’re net healing/avoiding the damage.
This describes partially avoidable, apart from the regen scenario.
Fights and nodes present challenges, we use champions and abilities to counter or avoid those challenges. Someone saying starburst is unavoidable damage is forgetting that Mr Negative can take 0 damage from it, Spider Ham can take 0 damage from it, I hulk can store 60% of the damage as health, Herc can survive on 1% health, Ghost can avoid the damage, so on and so forth. Claiming these challenges are unavoidable and therefore unfair is silly, you can avoid so much of that damage that it is no longer a challenge and easy to survive.
Mr Negative can avoid starburst damage (degen), but not direct damage. Spider Ham needs to get to 10 Spider Nonsense - so he can only partially avoid degen.
As I’ve said before, not every fight or node needs to be easily countered by every champ. This is all part of the game, and it’s not going to go away.
You can say that all you want, and I don’t necessarily disagree, but there will always be people who don’t like unavoidable damage - and they’re not going to go away
The best arguments i’ve seen against this post so far are: AoN heals the damage you took when it expires (fine by me, I like this node) AoG can be reversed and used to heal (again, I like this node. Usually I just time my special/combo to kill the opponent before AoG activates.) “Just use a regen champ”
Direct Damage and Starburst are lazy. There used to be a somewhat large chunk of the community who agreed, at least, if I remember correctly. I like nodes where you have to actually put forth an effort to counter it. “Just use a regen champ”, while true to an extent (you aren’t avoiding the damage, just reducing the toll it takes on your champions), is just lazy fight/node design. I’d like to see it get replaced, maybe with nodes like No Retreat or Flare (Yes, I’m aware Flare is unavoidable damage, but it provides you with an extra tool to defeat your opponent) that actually encourage you to play skillfully and strategically so you avoid the damage.
Just my opinion. God bless.
This is an interesting position. So what is regen for? There's an Electro on Map 5 that I regularly take down on my secondary alt account. I don't have many AAR options in that account, so I use X-23. I can outheal the strikeback damage *if* I don't get hit by specials and *if* I don't use specials myself, keeping my power high so my regen is working at maximum efficiency. If I do both things, I win. If I don't, I die.
For me, that damage is unavoidable. But I'm using knowledge and skill to beat the fight. By your assessment, this is being "lazy." The design of the fight is lazy because it presents damage to a player they cannot avoid, and my solution to the problem is lazy because I'm just using regen to beat it.
I suspect most players in my position would tend to disagree with your characterization, as I suspect most Map 6 runners who do these paths would likewise say their solution to these fights isn't lazy, and thus the fight design itself isn't necessarily lazy, because it presents a requirement that roster, knowledge, and skill can collectively overcome.
Sorry OP, but I think you should learn about all the different champs and ways to counter all these nodes. And no, it is not only 2-4 champs as you say.
As mentioned, Corvus, Ghost and CMM have differing ways to do it. GHulk, Mysterio and max sig Namor are hands down the prime direct damage counters of the game. Spiderman, iHulk and Mr. Negative can counter degen. Diablo, Duped, Angela, Hercules, Blade against certain champs, Kitty .. all of them too have their ways. Any self healing champ can counter all of this too too, such as all the Wolverines, duped KG, Warlock, OR and BWCV. In certain nodes, even a duped AA can prevent the unavoidable damage to happen in the first place. Mr. Fantastic has a pretty powerful pre-fight that lessens the damage done by some of these nodes . That's a total of of about 22 champs available to counter these nodes in in varying ways/degrees of effectiveness.
The only valid point of your argument is that these kind of nodes basically force you to be lucky enough to get any of these champs and then rank them up. Sure, but isn't this the case for so many nodes in the game? That is precisely the reason why those nodes have been put there in the first place, it's a way for Kabam to force players to think strategically about their rosters. Nodes like the ones you mention plus so many others exist to prompt players to diversify their rosters. Otherwise everyone would just rank up Quake and then be done with the game altogether.
The best arguments i’ve seen against this post so far are: AoN heals the damage you took when it expires (fine by me, I like this node) AoG can be reversed and used to heal (again, I like this node. Usually I just time my special/combo to kill the opponent before AoG activates.) “Just use a regen champ”
Direct Damage and Starburst are lazy. There used to be a somewhat large chunk of the community who agreed, at least, if I remember correctly. I like nodes where you have to actually put forth an effort to counter it. “Just use a regen champ”, while true to an extent (you aren’t avoiding the damage, just reducing the toll it takes on your champions), is just lazy fight/node design. I’d like to see it get replaced, maybe with nodes like No Retreat or Flare (Yes, I’m aware Flare is unavoidable damage, but it provides you with an extra tool to defeat your opponent) that actually encourage you to play skillfully and strategically so you avoid the damage.
The best arguments i’ve seen against this post so far are: AoN heals the damage you took when it expires (fine by me, I like this node) AoG can be reversed and used to heal (again, I like this node. Usually I just time my special/combo to kill the opponent before AoG activates.) “Just use a regen champ”
Direct Damage and Starburst are lazy. There used to be a somewhat large chunk of the community who agreed, at least, if I remember correctly. I like nodes where you have to actually put forth an effort to counter it. “Just use a regen champ”, while true to an extent (you aren’t avoiding the damage, just reducing the toll it takes on your champions), is just lazy fight/node design. I’d like to see it get replaced, maybe with nodes like No Retreat or Flare (Yes, I’m aware Flare is unavoidable damage, but it provides you with an extra tool to defeat your opponent) that actually encourage you to play skillfully and strategically so you avoid the damage.
Just my opinion. God bless.
This is an interesting position. So what is regen for? There's an Electro on Map 5 that I regularly take down on my secondary alt account. I don't have many AAR options in that account, so I use X-23. I can outheal the strikeback damage *if* I don't get hit by specials and *if* I don't use specials myself, keeping my power high so my regen is working at maximum efficiency. If I do both things, I win. If I don't, I die.
For me, that damage is unavoidable. But I'm using knowledge and skill to beat the fight. By your assessment, this is being "lazy." The design of the fight is lazy because it presents damage to a player they cannot avoid, and my solution to the problem is lazy because I'm just using regen to beat it.
I suspect most players in my position would tend to disagree with your characterization, as I suspect most Map 6 runners who do these paths would likewise say their solution to these fights isn't lazy, and thus the fight design itself isn't necessarily lazy, because it presents a requirement that roster, knowledge, and skill can collectively overcome.
Equating the direct damage node with electro isn't really an even comparison and your alt lacking the options that cancel out his reflect damage doesn't mean it can't be countered. Tbh it's odd seeing you base an entire argument on an obviously false equivalence. Direct damage node is lazy compared to a champions ability with a dozen (more probably) hard counters. Regen mitigates the damage, I run this lane on map 6 and just play through it because I can, doesn't make it a well designed node. "Here's some damage, have fun" isn't nearly the knowledge and skill magnet you make it out to be. I don't feel like I'm being presented a challenge to overcome, just a minor annoyance along my way.
A skilled player isn’t going to start that fight with only 1% health.
Fact is, if you go into that fight (direct damage or starburst) with health, you come out with less health regardless of skill.
I always go in at 1% for herc 🙃
Oh and btw mini and linked boss included
and I take those "unavoidable damage" lanes your talking about
You lose Hercules’ entire health pool before you get to the direct damage fight?
Your screenshot shows your whole team almost KO’d, and you have 11m points. That might happen by the end of the quest, but not going into the direct damage fight.
But thanks for proving you didn’t avoid the damage.
No? Direct Damage and Starbust can be outhealed, And AoN and AoG can be survived by basically everyone.
I love how in the future of MCoC everyone will be talking about the nodes and all the people will be like . "yo i need help countung the MoTRI node on book 3 2.4.6 boss node"
The best arguments i’ve seen against this post so far are: AoN heals the damage you took when it expires (fine by me, I like this node) AoG can be reversed and used to heal (again, I like this node. Usually I just time my special/combo to kill the opponent before AoG activates.) “Just use a regen champ”
Direct Damage and Starburst are lazy. There used to be a somewhat large chunk of the community who agreed, at least, if I remember correctly. I like nodes where you have to actually put forth an effort to counter it. “Just use a regen champ”, while true to an extent (you aren’t avoiding the damage, just reducing the toll it takes on your champions), is just lazy fight/node design. I’d like to see it get replaced, maybe with nodes like No Retreat or Flare (Yes, I’m aware Flare is unavoidable damage, but it provides you with an extra tool to defeat your opponent) that actually encourage you to play skillfully and strategically so you avoid the damage.
Just my opinion. God bless.
This is an interesting position. So what is regen for? There's an Electro on Map 5 that I regularly take down on my secondary alt account. I don't have many AAR options in that account, so I use X-23. I can outheal the strikeback damage *if* I don't get hit by specials and *if* I don't use specials myself, keeping my power high so my regen is working at maximum efficiency. If I do both things, I win. If I don't, I die.
For me, that damage is unavoidable. But I'm using knowledge and skill to beat the fight. By your assessment, this is being "lazy." The design of the fight is lazy because it presents damage to a player they cannot avoid, and my solution to the problem is lazy because I'm just using regen to beat it.
I suspect most players in my position would tend to disagree with your characterization, as I suspect most Map 6 runners who do these paths would likewise say their solution to these fights isn't lazy, and thus the fight design itself isn't necessarily lazy, because it presents a requirement that roster, knowledge, and skill can collectively overcome.
I do take these paths in Map 6. Frequently. I don’t see how I am a “skilled player” or a “knowledgeable player” due to the sole fact that I can bring in a character that can regenerate the Direct Damage node damage. I’m not saying the player is lazy for doing all they can to overcome the node with minimal damage taken. I don’t recall saying it, and if my words can be interpreted as such, it is not what I meant. I meant it is lazy to just say “You take damage” and call it a day. Even if the player can just bring in a regeneration champion. With the flare node, or no retreat, you CAN work around the damage, and minimize it, with most if not all characters. With No Retreat, know your opponents specials. Know the timing of the hits, what hits are best to dodge and what hits are best to block, get better at “re-parry” if you need to block consecutive hits. With Flare, if you don’t have a life steal champion or a champion with regeneration mechanics, go in and finish off your opponent ASAP aided by a 300% attack boost. Your electro strategy with X-23 is very smart though, props to you for that. I do believe electro has a lot more options for counters though. Energy resistance, AAR, DOT, Regeneration, Non-contact attacks. It’s not just regeneration that can handle it.
As for the question, “What is regen for?”, I believe it is quite simple. What are health potions for? To top up your champion’s health. Just like health potions, a lot of players are so good that they may not need their favorite champion’s regeneration mechanic. Regeneration obviously does not have one specific use, but has a general use. To replenish health.
What about infinite blast. This node has 0 counter, you literally enter the fight and get a portion of health taken away. Doesn’t matter if you can heal it back. It’s unavoidable (maybe with class advantage, not sure).
What about infinite blast. This node has 0 counter, you literally enter the fight and get a portion of health taken away. Doesn’t matter if you can heal it back. It’s unavoidable (maybe with class advantage, not sure).
You can mitigate the damage with class advantage, but that's about it. Thankfully, that node hasn't been used in any meaningful content for years
Direct damage is not avoidable as far as I know. It’s counter-able with a high regen champ or duped corvus. Do you know of any champs that can avoid it altogether?
Comments
OP expressed a distaste for unavoidable damage, gave two genuine examples, and was subsequently told he had none.
That’s all.
In an unrealistic world of technicality and being right on paper, sure, the literal definition is that some of these ticks of damage are unavoidable, and you may take some damage.
But what it is closer to, is a scale. Damage can be on this scale of “avoidability” (yes I just made that word up). If a champion can avoid half of this damage with indestructible, and this damage would do 100% of your health, guess what, you’ve avoided half of the damage. If you can regen more than the damage is being done then you’re net healing/avoiding the damage.
Fights and nodes present challenges, we use champions and abilities to counter or avoid those challenges. Someone saying starburst is unavoidable damage is forgetting that Mr Negative can take 0 damage from it, Spider Ham can take 0 damage from it, I hulk can store 60% of the damage as health, Herc can survive on 1% health, Ghost can avoid the damage, so on and so forth. Claiming these challenges are unavoidable and therefore unfair is silly, you can avoid so much of that damage that it is no longer a challenge and easy to survive.
As I’ve said before, not every fight or node needs to be easily countered by every champ. This is all part of the game, and it’s not going to go away.
This describes partially avoidable, apart from the regen scenario.
Mr Negative can avoid starburst damage (degen), but not direct damage. Spider Ham needs to get to 10 Spider Nonsense - so he can only partially avoid degen.
You can say that all you want, and I don’t necessarily disagree, but there will always be people who don’t like unavoidable damage - and they’re not going to go away
For me, that damage is unavoidable. But I'm using knowledge and skill to beat the fight. By your assessment, this is being "lazy." The design of the fight is lazy because it presents damage to a player they cannot avoid, and my solution to the problem is lazy because I'm just using regen to beat it.
I suspect most players in my position would tend to disagree with your characterization, as I suspect most Map 6 runners who do these paths would likewise say their solution to these fights isn't lazy, and thus the fight design itself isn't necessarily lazy, because it presents a requirement that roster, knowledge, and skill can collectively overcome.
As mentioned, Corvus, Ghost and CMM have differing ways to do it. GHulk, Mysterio and max sig Namor are hands down the prime direct damage counters of the game. Spiderman, iHulk and Mr. Negative can counter degen. Diablo, Duped, Angela, Hercules, Blade against certain champs, Kitty .. all of them too have their ways. Any self healing champ can counter all of this too too, such as all the Wolverines, duped KG, Warlock, OR and BWCV. In certain nodes, even a duped AA can prevent the unavoidable damage to happen in the first place. Mr. Fantastic has a pretty powerful pre-fight that lessens the damage done by some of these nodes . That's a total of of about 22 champs available to counter these nodes in in varying ways/degrees of effectiveness.
The only valid point of your argument is that these kind of nodes basically force you to be lucky enough to get any of these champs and then rank them up. Sure, but isn't this the case for so many nodes in the game? That is precisely the reason why those nodes have been put there in the first place, it's a way for Kabam to force players to think strategically about their rosters. Nodes like the ones you mention plus so many others exist to prompt players to diversify their rosters. Otherwise everyone would just rank up Quake and then be done with the game altogether.
Oh and btw mini and linked boss included
and I take those "unavoidable damage" lanes your talking about
Your screenshot shows your whole team almost KO’d, and you have 11m points. That might happen by the end of the quest, but not going into the direct damage fight.
But thanks for proving you didn’t avoid the damage.
.
"yo i need help countung the MoTRI node on book 3 2.4.6 boss node"
As for the question, “What is regen for?”, I believe it is quite simple. What are health potions for? To top up your champion’s health. Just like health potions, a lot of players are so good that they may not need their favorite champion’s regeneration mechanic. Regeneration obviously does not have one specific use, but has a general use. To replenish health.
Again, just giving my thoughts. God bless.
This node has 0 counter, you literally enter the fight and get a portion of health taken away.
Doesn’t matter if you can heal it back. It’s unavoidable (maybe with class advantage, not sure).
Thankfully, that node hasn't been used in any meaningful content for years