The old gods of the contest, how do they hold up today? (Pt.1/2)

TP33TP33 Posts: 1,489 ★★★★
It’s been 4 years since the release of Ghost, Domino and Corvus Glaive. 5 years since we were given the Holy Trinity, Medusa Iceman and Archangel. 6 years since the release of Quake and Hyperion, and 7 years since Magik joined the contest. These are the so called “old gods” of the contest. Ask anyone back in 2017/2018 and they’ll tell you, these are the BEST champions ever and nothing can come close. However the contest has changed, Doom, Hercules, Human Torch, CGR hadn’t arrived yet and these 12 champions were at the top of their games, it also happens to be around the time I started playing, the end of the “glory days” the start of 2019.

Now I would like to look at and analyse how these champions have changed over time, how the game has changed to reduce their dominance in the META (or even increase it). It’ll be in no specific order, however I’ll put the “less capable” champions first, and save the most interesting champions for last.

Iceman

It’s a shame that he’s this high on the list. When he was introduced coldsnap was completely new, and he could put it on you straight away and do huge damage when buffed up. Nobody was immune, nobody had reduction, not even himself. Speaking of immunity, Iceman had not one, not two THREE, unheard of at the time. He also had the capability to do massive damage, and oh yeah, in a time when Hyperion special 3 spamming was the defensive meta, he could just take as much damage as he wanted, then turn it into 5%. Unbelievable.

However he’s not first on the list for nothing. He doesn’t hold up today. Simply put, coldsnap is no longer the unavoidable damaging force if used to be, defensively he’s lost his main force, offensively, he doesn’t do enough damage, his immunities are not as impressive now as there are better champions with 3 (even 4 I think) immunities. His damage cap remains unique, however its main utility (tanking special 3s) is redundant, with all the power stealing, burning, locking etc which can stop an L3 from being launched full stop.

In conclusion, everything he does is now done better or simply not done at all in this new META.


The Holy Trinity

Controversial, however at the heart of this problem Blade simply isn’t as good as he used to be. The other 2 champions I will cover, but realistically we’re mainly talking about Blade here.

Bleed is unfortunately outdated, so many are immune to it or resistant or even turn it into a negative for you. Now back in the day yes there were immune champions, but the number of bleed immune champions to non immune champions has undoubtedly skyrocketed (not all Blades fault we’ll cover this later on).

Now without bleed Blade struggles, not even that, but often his damage doesn’t hold up and his biggest struggle? 3 champions on the team for just villain champions. Now in a modern meta I guess you could run Holy trinity, Xbones and Hit Monkey to cover your bases, but they’re all skill champions. We could go back and forth all day but eventually you realise that it’s simply not worth running the Holy trinity in todays meta when you could just run Hercules or Ghost.

Now I’ll cover Sparky and GR, Sparky still holds well, all around solid champion, slightly lacking on damage but unless you’re late in act 6/ act 7 you basically don’t notice it. GR was never god really. Useless in longer fights, finally got his incinerate immunity, very lacklustre damage, if you want to get all his judgements working at once, good luck. His life steal is pretty good, but it’s impermanent and eventually runs out. Maybe he could be used in certain places, but really who uses him?

Domino

Aw man. I remember Domino on defence back in the day. Scary times. Nothing could stop her, she was an absolute defensive unit. She was also pretty good on attack, however RNG based it was. But man defensively she was horrible. Alliances used to just run Domino after Domino, kabam used to put her all over the place, hard path in a quest? Defined by if there’s a Domino or not. Awful times. I know there is many a summoner who quivers at the sight of her just by instinct.

Has she got better? Yeah, a bit. Sorcerer Supreme is my personal solution. Many people use Ghost, Omega Sentinel, Nimrod, lots of people have just got their own counters for her and she’s become so common a lot of summoners have her countered down to the millisecond.

However her biggest fall off was on attack. She used to be great because health pools used to be around the level where a 5/65 would more or less end the fight after a couple special 2s, and if you got lucky it was only 1. However as fights have got harder and longer you can see Dominos potential maybe 1/5 times you use her, but the other 4/5 you simply get unlucky and the fight takes a year and a half longer then it could have. I feel like if she had some more skill based ways of activating her big damage and crits then she would hold up much better. However it’s all luck, RNG, how many sacrifices you make to the gods of kabam, that dictates how well she will perform. Oh well.


Hyperion

The first good still champion I’m going to cover, I’m not done dunking on a couple of these guys but I don’t want you to think it’s all negatives.

Hyperion was always solid, pre-doom he was a power gaining power house, Magik and Voodoo would counter him defensively but offensively he couldn’t be stopped, simply damage. And that hasn’t gone away, his buff gaining hasn’t become more punished by the meta than it was, in fact it’s rewarded in many cases. He’s still a pretty solid champion, 10/10 would pull again.


Corvus Glaive

Last of the modern strugglers, we have Corvus Glaive. Now now, I know what you’re going to say, “he’s still pretty good, I use him loads” and yes, probably true. This is why he’s so interesting, he holds well, R3 6* with suicides still hits HARD, really hard. But frankly his usage has reduced due to his 20 hit cap. Put on cosmic power boosts, he really goes for it and can finish off late act 7 even some 8.1 fights, but really needing: High rank, suicides, favourable nodes and power boosts just to make him work well and be ABLE to finish a fight, is simply unfortunate. Look at his replacements, CGR and Hercules. CGR hits big yellow numbers as much as he can get his buffs and armour breaks up, he can cycle through a repeat over and over as much as you need, Hercules is the same, both pair with suicides great, both go ham with power boosts, both are unbelievable with some nodes, but neither need any of those things.

Corvus does. Unfortunate.

(Side note guaranteed crits have been beefed hard by lots of champs EG Ebony Maw but I’m not going to say that’s a huge factor because a few champs/nodes don’t make him useless as a champion)


I’ve just realised how long this thread is, and so you’ll have to wait for Archangel, Quake, Ghost, Medusa and Magik in pt2, but it won’t be this long because it’s more or less self explanatory. Anyways thanks for reading and feel free to share your thoughts below.

Comments

  • booscka2536booscka2536 Posts: 2,487 ★★★★
    Also high sig corvus if you burn your charges in under 20 seconds I think they come back quicker depending on sig level
  • SuelGamesSuelGames Posts: 680 ★★★
    edited October 2022
    Too long but Hype still one of the best, and Domino still an annoying defender sometimes, granted me some wins in bgs
  • TP33TP33 Posts: 1,489 ★★★★

    1. You probably could have done a more in-depth look at a smaller sample size to get a better discussion.
    2. Wait, the only downside to mention about Starky is his damage?? Have you played him? That's one of his strongest bits and he can (if you play reasonably) put up better damage than most non-Herc champs.

    1. i did intend on that but i just had so many champions i wanted to discuss

    2. i haven’t played any 5/65 sparky at all, but i never see him used any more. also you mention “Herc Champ damage” but then again, that’s what high damage is these days, so far beyond what we used to get out of a sparky
  • TP33TP33 Posts: 1,489 ★★★★

    Are you going to talk about SW and SL as well?

    i may well, i was also looking at storm and wolverine, however they are before my time so to speak, i never got to play the game whilst those guys were meta (pre v12.0 right?)
  • FlippFlipp Posts: 16
    It is hard to compare champs if you haven’t had full experience with them, or pre-12.0. The game was different and nodes/challenges were as well. One thing to consider, is that these ‘old gods’ have much more simple play styles to use them as they were designed. Star lord - don’t get hit. Magik - 2 bars of power rinse and repeat. Sparky - evade and attack.

    New characters produce higher numbers, but in general take more time to learn/understand and skill to do.
  • Hera1d_of_Ga1actusHera1d_of_Ga1actus Posts: 2,411 ★★★★★
    For anyone wondering why he has such an interesting opinion

    Old Thread: https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/285402/to-everyone-who-said-ebony-maw-was-bad#latest
  • Hort4Hort4 Posts: 342 ★★
    Dr. Strange, SW and Thor were the three original god tier champs that got kabamed the most in 12.0.
  • KerneasKerneas Posts: 3,383 ★★★★★
    Domino still has some value. I did a path or two in 8.1 w the Incinerate trinity
  • AddyosAddyos Posts: 1,090 ★★★★
    TP33 said:

    Are you going to talk about SW and SL as well?

    i may well, i was also looking at storm and wolverine, however they are before my time so to speak, i never got to play the game whilst those guys were meta (pre v12.0 right?)
    As soon as you started naming Corvus, Ghost and Donino as “Old Gods”, that’s where you lost me. If you’re gonna create a thread about “The Old Gods”, then you needed to do your research and speak about the actual Old Gods. The ones who got nerfed with the infamous Patch 12.0. They were:

    1. Thor
    2. Scarlet Witch
    3. Star Lord
    4. Doctor Strange
    5. Black Widow

    Though not really considered god-tier at the time, other champs were affected by the champ rebalancing that happened with 12.0. They included, among others:

    1. Wolverine (a case can be made that he was also an Old God)
    2. Ultron
    3. Iron Fist
    4. Rocket Raccoon

    Storm wasn't affected by 12.0, but was never considered god-tier in the first place.

    Anyone who played with The Old Gods pre-12.0 can attest to how broken & meta these 5 champs were in the game, and how 12.0 obliterated them. Attempts were made by Kabam to make them usable again, but they still paled in comparison to their former selves. I still hold a grudge with Kabam to this day for how they did Doctor Strange dirty, as he’s my favourite Marvel character (hence my profile pic) & a big reason I started playing this game.

    Many of the champs you listed as the old gods did become the meta afterwards, but they are not the actual Old Gods of MCoC that you speak of.
  • MauledMauled Posts: 3,776 ★★★★★
    An interesting take.

    I’d disagree with the Holy Trinity opinion. Taken as a trio they’re not necessarily worth the slots anymore.

    Sparky as a stand-alone champion is still in the upper echelons of the tech class. He can evade specials, hits like a truck and has decent utility. He’s dope in BG as a defender or an attacker.

    GR has always been a synergy champion with good secondary uses - his sustainability and immunities are still useful, he just hits like Groot. But he does enhance danger sense, hence the inclusion.

    Blade as a stand-alone champion is still very very good. He’s got to still be in the top 5 for reliable regen in the game alongside KP, IBom and Wolverine. His basic damage is still pretty solid, comparing his use in bleed immune fights is fascicle - you don’t consider AA’s use in non bleed immune fights when discussing his damage output. Danger sense can effectively give him class advantage in nigh on 30% of the matchups in the game - a similar number to Magneto’s magnetism - depending on whether you bring Mephisto and/or GR.

    Blade fell out of favour, just like AA, when bleed immune started spawning like they were going out of fashion, but this trend has ended over the last few years with most releases being bleedable. Unfortunately Kabam seems to have stopped putting the dimensional being tag on champions which is a shame.
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 1,802 ★★★★★
    Mauled said:

    An interesting take.

    I’d disagree with the Holy Trinity opinion. Taken as a trio they’re not necessarily worth the slots anymore.

    Sparky as a stand-alone champion is still in the upper echelons of the tech class. He can evade specials, hits like a truck and has decent utility. He’s dope in BG as a defender or an attacker.

    GR has always been a synergy champion with good secondary uses - his sustainability and immunities are still useful, he just hits like Groot. But he does enhance danger sense, hence the inclusion.

    Blade as a stand-alone champion is still very very good. He’s got to still be in the top 5 for reliable regen in the game alongside KP, IBom and Wolverine. His basic damage is still pretty solid, comparing his use in bleed immune fights is fascicle - you don’t consider AA’s use in non bleed immune fights when discussing his damage output. Danger sense can effectively give him class advantage in nigh on 30% of the matchups in the game - a similar number to Magneto’s magnetism - depending on whether you bring Mephisto and/or GR.

    Blade fell out of favour, just like AA, when bleed immune started spawning like they were going out of fashion, but this trend has ended over the last few years with most releases being bleedable. Unfortunately Kabam seems to have stopped putting the dimensional being tag on champions which is a shame.

    Blade still has a ton of value across a lot of content. Passive regen on demand, bleed sourced passive power gain, and bleed on parry even when it doesn't make sense? That's without even considering that he's one of the few champs where MAX recoil and DE/LC makes perfect sense outside of arena grinding.
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